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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Emerald Rocker on December 22, 2006, 08:52:10 AM
Title: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 22, 2006, 08:52:10 AM
This topic is about your experiences playing TurboChip DUDS. Obviously, Japanese games are excluded, because those are HuCARDs, not TurboChips.
Now, I could easily make a blanket statement like "ALL TURBOCHIPS ARE DUDS". It would be easy to say, because every TurboChip I've ever played has been a dud. However, I will not say that. I will leave open the possibility that there are some good ones out there that I just haven't played. However, this topic is not about the good ones, so please don't defend any TurboChips here.
TURBOCHIP DUDS:
1) Legendary Axe - First off, the music pretty much blows. On top of that, the game lacks action (compare this to any of the NES Ninja Gaiden games), the graphics are tile-based nonsense, and the "secret areas" that the instruction manual touts is really just "that one part in level 3 where you have to find a key". Bad game with cheap bosses (like the Punjabbi)
2) Silent Debuggers - Leon looks pretty cool, but this game is otherwise unremarkable. The music pretty much blows. Some people call this the precursor to survival horror, but that can't be true -- otherwise, the genre would have died at birth.
3) Air Zonk - This is basically like taking the shooter segments of Mega Man 3 and stretching it out into an entire game. A boring, sloppy game with music that pretty much blows.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: vestcoat on December 22, 2006, 10:48:42 AM
Now, I could easily make a blanket statement like "ALL TURBOCHIPS ARE DUDS". It would be easy to say, because every TurboChip I've ever played has been a dud.
Ouch! That's a pretty strong statement even if you're a PC Engine purist. Where do you think those 3 games came from before they were released as Turbochips? Interesting comments though. The general consensus around here already has a rough list of lame turbochips (with their supporters!) and it's nice to see the more popular games catch some crap. I think this thread might be better called "Overrated Turbochips", but whatever. Biting my tongue on LA and AZ, I'll way in with a few of my own:
Neutopia 2: Not a bad game, but by no means the RPG people make it out to be. This game came out at the beginning of the cutesy, tutorial, hold-your-hand era of RPGs. Didn't Hudson realize that everyone in the world had already played Zelda? "Yes, I already know that I should try pushing rocks. Thank you very much, helpful townsperson". "What's that? Try BOMBING WALLS in the Labyrinths? OH, Great idea!" *Ughh* ](*,) Too linear and lighthearted for my taste.
Bonk 3: No concrete improvement over it's predecessors. Could have done more with an 8-meg game.
Shockman: Shooting levels suck. A 2nd player just gets in the way on two-player mode.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Odonadon on December 22, 2006, 01:55:00 PM
Silent Debuggers and Air Zonk are a couple of my fav games. For "duds", I'd have to say:
Boxyboy Drop Rock Gunboat
But that all depends how you define "dud". I guess I could say the "music pretty much blows" for these three :)
OD
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Tatsujin on December 22, 2006, 02:37:02 PM
pc denjin aka airzonk is just great!! what's wrong with it, man? and the BGM kicks ass. especially stage 2 and in the stadium. something of the best you can find on hucards imo.
legendary axe is also great stuff regarded to its age. and same for here, some great bgms around.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: vestcoat on December 22, 2006, 02:44:10 PM
pc denjin aka airzonk is just great!! what's wrong with it, man? and the BGM kicks ass. especially stage 2 and in the stadium. something of the best you can find on hucards imo. legendary axe is also great stuff regarded to its age. and same for here, some great bgms around.
*sigh* :roll:
The FIRST rule of TurboChip DUDS is you don't defend turbochips....
The SECOND rule of Turbochips DUDS is you don't defend Turbochips.
The Third rule is, if it's your first post, you HAVE to bitch about a game.
:wink:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Tatsujin on December 22, 2006, 02:54:13 PM
sorry about that, but couldn't handle my young horses anymore, after reading that :oops:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 22, 2006, 02:55:09 PM
Do all the Turbografx-16 games after the initial orange cases releases count? They're only labeled "HuCard".
There was a time when I couldn't appreciate Legendary Axe. But now I love the graphics sound and gameplay. The NES Ninja Gaiden games always seemed more like a slow moving video game of "tag" than action to me. At least 'real' tag doesn't have as many cheap hits into instant death pits from rapid spawning offscreen enemies.
I wish that Neutopia II gave more tips and was more linear. I got stuck near the end because I couldn't find one item and was forced to quit the rental.
Bonk 3 isn't as good as Revenge but it's still a good game.
I've never gotten into Shockman, but I am one of the two people in the world who thinks that part 3 isn't so hot.
I guess that Slasher Quan isn't the only one in the world who doesn't appreciate Air Zonk's great music.
Even though there were way too many great PC Engine HuCards that should've been released here in general or in place of many that did make it, I'm still surprised at how nearly all "Turbochips/U.S. HuCards" are good to great.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 22, 2006, 03:29:51 PM
Good posts, good posts. I'm not a PC Engine purist... I just wanted to limit the selection of games to what people are most familiar with.
MORE DUDS:
4) Military Madness - The simplicity seems appealing at first, but the gameplay basically boils down to a fancier version of "rock, paper, scissors". The problem is that what was fancy ten years ago isn't very fancy today and, without any depth at all, there's nothing to save this chip from being a DUD. The music pretty much blows.
5) Keith Courage - For years, I listened to my friend Mats talk about this game called "Keith Courage in the Christian Zones", where you played as an old dude with a staff (presumably Jesus) who would summon the holy rainbow and transform into a satan-fighting robot. I was very disappointed when I learned the truth -- that Keith Courage is a dull, repetitive game without an ounce of personality. The music pretty much blows.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 22, 2006, 03:46:03 PM
Turbo Chips are awesome - recognize.
As far as duds go, Black_Tiger did a really good job summing up my choice for duds, though I would exlcude Turricane and Tale Spin from his list because I found those games to be pretty playable and a little enjoyable. A couple more duds I would include are Pipe Dream and Drop Rock.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Necromancer on December 22, 2006, 04:51:29 PM
Gonna vote for Davis Cup Tennis. Crappy controls + overly skilled computer opponents = DUD. At least the graphics were decent, but watch the demo mode for a while. I don't think I've ever seen matches last that long in the real world.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: GUTS on December 22, 2006, 04:53:40 PM
5) Keith Courage - For years, I listened to my friend Mats talk about this game called "Keith Courage in the Christian Zones", where you played as an old dude with a staff (presumably Jesus) who would summon the holy rainbow and transform into a satan-fighting robot. I was very disappointed when I learned the truth -- that Keith Courage is a dull, repetitive game without an ounce of personality. The music pretty much blows.
God damn that sounds like a sweet game, someone should hack Keith Courage and change it to that.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: esteban on December 22, 2006, 05:10:49 PM
TURBOCHIP DUDS:
1) Ys I & II* - Only Falcom fanboys can stand the stench of this game. The game has a preposterous battle system (indeed, we've heard this complaint ad nauseum since it was released), but the lack of blood during battles is an even greater calamity. Honestly, what was Falcom thinking? Where is the gore? The mighty thrust of the sword? The spewing of blood? Without a visual representation of the carnage Adol is inflicting upon his opponents, playing Ys I & II is an unfulfilling chore devoid of visceral thrill. If a Falcom fanboy claims otherwise, tell him he is full of Chip. Don't even get me started on the music (or, more precisely, "muzak")...
2) Soldier Blade - The bastard child of the Star Soldier series, and Hudson knew it. They were wise enough to disassociate this steaming pile of Chip from the series proper by eschewing "Star" from the title, but even this didn't prevent some folks from buying it. With a generic weapon system that we've seen in every (pea)shooter since Scramble, Soldier Blade's action is as riveting as a shotput competition.
3) Devil's Crush - Take all of the innovative elements of Crüe Ball, strip them away, and you're left with Devil's Crush. What a piece of Chip. Neither pentragrams nor the Green Reptile Devil himself can mask the deficiencies in this game. End of story.
4) Valis III* - Some call this the poor man's Castlevania. They are too kind. Let's be honest... Valis III is to TG-CD as Earnest Evans is to Sega CD: dog crap with a pedigree. Or wolf crap, as it were. Both titles promised to be so much more. Oh well.
*These games were never worthy of the CD-ROM medium and, as such, are the ultimate TurboChip DUDs. Releasing them as TurboChips would have been bad enough; needlessly releasing them as CD-ROMs was a travesty.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: nat on December 22, 2006, 05:37:57 PM
:dance: Genius.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 22, 2006, 05:43:22 PM
Space Harrier - What the hell is up with this piece of crap?! The game never allows you to go into space at any portion of the game nor does it let you fly a harrier jet. The game is for those who enjoy fingering their cat's anus. Horrible and not tolerable!
Bonk's Adventure - What the hell is up with this piece of crap? I play as a freakin' retard and this is supposed to be fun? The gameplay completely sucks and requires me to press a button every time the little retard needs to jump. He just never learns. This game does not use all 512 colors. After I was done playing this game, I took the TuboChip, wiped my hairy ass with it and flushed it down with the other turds I had already deposited in the jam-packed toilet.
Neutopia 1 and 2 - What the hell is up with these pieces of crap? They can't even scroll properly. I have to walk all the way to the edge of the screen before the game decides "Oh! I guess now would be a good time to scroll!" and then it only scrolls a little bit and I have to walk to the edge of that screen to get it to scroll again. Obviously these games were programmed by a person with some kind of developmental disorder. Why they decided to make a part 2 is beyond me, as the first one is about as fun as ripping off your penis and shoving it into your eye socket repeatedly.
Gate of Thunder - What the hell is up with this piece of crap? This game doesn't have blast processing and therefore it is not fun at all. The graphics are good... if you think vomit looks appealing. You fly a spaceship against an incredibly weak alien army. A real alien army wouldn't let one wimpy ass ship with a homosexual pilot defeat them, that's for sure. I think I'll convert one of the rooms in my house so that the floor is a giant cheese grater, and then I'll go roll around naked and rub my body all over it. It'll be more fun than this giant hunk of poo.
Side Arms - What the hell is up with this piece of crap? This was a great HuCard in Japan for the PC Engine, but then it was ported over to the far inferior TurboGrafx-16 system (bleh) as a wimpy TurboChip. Now it's obvious that many sacrifices had to be made during the transition from HuCard to TurboChip, but I didn't know that everything would have to be sacrificed! Yes, this game is about as fun as going to Home Depot, finding their massive sandpaper isle, taking the heaviest grit paper you can find, dropping your pants right there and rubbing it back and forth across your scrotum with all of your strength until the police show up.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 22, 2006, 07:45:08 PM
you're all going to hell. :evil:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: TR0N on December 22, 2006, 09:50:59 PM
DUD Bravoman: Fugly music wacky controlls not to mention muffle, speach that makes you think your hearing engrish.
Btw i forgot to mention it's ridiculous diffcultly that is has as well.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: MrFulci on December 23, 2006, 04:05:46 AM
Wow, some folks aren't easy to please.
The TG-16 did seem to have a good proportion of "duds" due to the limited amount of total games released in the US.
For me it was:
- Talespin - Been a while, though I recall when I first acquired the game giving it a chance for about 20-30min before turning off the TG-16 and putting the game away for quite a while.
- Darkwing Duck - Pretty much the same deal as above, however I think I only lasted 10-20min.
- Many of the sports games, however, World Court Tennis, Madden Football, Final Lap Twin, Hit the Ice, are all alright by me. For about a month a neighbour and I spent MUCH time with World Court Tennis.
- Camp California - For those who have played it, they pretty much know what makes the game a dud.
- Gunboat - I tried to get into the game, figured it would be similar to Silent Service. It looked similar enough. Sometimes, I couldn't figure out what was going on in this game. A confusing game it was.
There are more than those, however that's all that comes to mind.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: FM-77 on December 23, 2006, 04:23:33 AM
Pretty much any hucard.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: runinruder on December 23, 2006, 06:12:01 AM
Chip DUDS...
Andre Panza Kick Boxing Ballistix Blodia Bonk's Revenge Bravoman Falcon JJ & Jeff Keith Courage Ordyne Side Arms TV Sports Whatever World Court Tennis
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 23, 2006, 06:23:32 AM
ALL TurboChips are duds. ALL HuCards are winners.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: vestcoat on December 23, 2006, 09:23:24 AM
joe and steve: Well said! Don't forget to add "and the music pretty much blows" to each one of your entries!
I think I'll convert one of the rooms in my house so that the floor is a giant cheese grater, and then I'll go roll around naked and rub my body all over it.
I think you just wrote your signature! ----
BTW, I do enjoy the games i wrote about. The points I made are pretty much my only gripes about them. I thought I'd chime in after seeing legendary axe and air zonk get F'ed in the A.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: vestcoat on December 23, 2006, 09:25:10 AM
Oh sweet, I just got promoted to Venus Bonktrap. :dance:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 23, 2006, 10:26:36 AM
The TG-16 did seem to have a good proportion of "duds" due to the limited amount of total games released in the US.
I think that the TG-16 has actually has fewer proportionate number of real duds than any of the popular mainstream successful consoles. And I think that having a limited number of total games is actually the reason why.
Probably only like 10% of Turbochips are true garbage or kinda to pretty bad, where as the big systems have no less than 25% and some as high as like 40% or more.
Of course, those systems still have tons of great games, but the more popular a system is, the more crap that's piled onto it, even with 'quality ensuring licensing standards' in place.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: TR0N on December 23, 2006, 03:32:36 PM
Probably only like 10% of Turbochips are true garbage or kinda to pretty bad, where as the big systems have no less than 25% and some as high as like 40% or more.
Give a TG16 to someone who's never even seen one before and he'll disagree.
Funny to read about the Virtual Console on non-PCE forums by the way. People seem to really hate Bonk.
I also agree with the first poster. Legendary Axe in particular is incredibly overrated, and I don't understand why people like it (aside from nostalgic reasons, that is). The Ankoko densetsu (I refuse to call it a series) game is really nice though.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: MrFulci on December 24, 2006, 02:56:27 AM
Seldane, If people hate the game, they don't have to buy it. Pretty simple.
I had an experience with a visitor some years ago who had seen, and only played the TG-16 at in-store demos. When he saw the system over here his exclamation was, "OH SHTI! TURBO GRAFX!".
I guess he hadn't seen too many around during "it's time", and still remembered the system. He went through a decent chunk fo the games. There were many he didn't care for, however there were always Splatterhouse, Ninja Spirit, Devil/Alien Crush, etc.
Then again, with some other folks, we've had some laughs at the limitations of the system, such as showing how having too much going on at once can slow the system to slow motion in certain games (pretty easy to do with Air Zonk).
TG-16 is definately a niche system.
I have a dislike for pretty much any systems after sega/nintendo/tg-16 16-bit period. I don't care much for the games (at least what I've seen) or the controllers. Systems before it, I'm pretty much OK with, though I'm not too fond of the intellivision or Coleco pad/sticks. hahah, so that's where I'm coming from with video games. Not something I do much of anymore, the last system I acquired was the Turbo Duo.
Sure is a lot of hate in this thread for card games.
The other thign is, measuring Turbo Games against current stuff isn't totally "fair". Gotta look aat the time whent he game was released, what else was available. Blades of Steel was more than likely better than TV Sports Hockey, etc.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: malducci on December 24, 2006, 07:49:36 AM
Quote from: Seldane
Legendary Axe in particular is incredibly overrated, and I don't understand why people like it (aside from nostalgic reasons, that is). The Ankoko densetsu (I refuse to call it a series) game is really nice though.
I agree. I'm not sure why it got game of the year. I played back when it was fresh and new. I thought it was OK to decent, but nothing special. I didn't bother beating it back then either. The so called sequel is helluva lot better - one of my top ten Turbo Chips.
Funny someone mentioned Bonk's Revenge on there list. I thought it was the best one. Big improvement to the graphics over the first one. The only thing that sucked was the missing smooth spin of the first one. The difficulty was welcomed. Bonk 3 backgrounds overall are a step backwards to Bonk's Revenge.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 24, 2006, 08:04:43 AM
To appreciate Legendary Axe, you have to put more time into the game. I wasn't much impressed with it when I first played it for the first few times because I would only play until like level two. The real fun comes in later with the great difficult enemy patterns that you have to memorize. It has a really good learning curve.
Funny to read about the Virtual Console on non-PCE forums by the way. People seem to really hate Bonk.
And this is why Bonk's Adventure is the best selling Virtual Console game so far?
Quote from: tomaitheous
Funny someone mentioned Bonk's Revenge on there list. I thought it was the best one. Big improvement to the graphics over the first one. The only thing that sucked was the missing smooth spin of the first one. The difficulty was welcomed. Bonk 3 backgrounds overall are a step backwards to Bonk's Revenge.
Runin is notorious for hating Bonk's Revenge with a passion :D . I could understand why from his point of view by Revenge not having the same nostalgic feel for him. I agree with you though, I think it's the best in the series. I suppose the flip might not feel as nice, though I haven't really noticed a difference, but for me the levels were more fun, improved bonus stages, music was even better, and the graphics were a lot more detailed and colorful. I don't consider Revenge to be a huge leap in improvement, but I still enjoyed it a tad more than the first.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: FM-77 on December 24, 2006, 09:38:12 AM
I've finished Legendary Axe, and I still don't like it. At all. I don't even know why I actually bothered to play through it. :P
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 24, 2006, 09:52:21 AM
Quote
And this is why Bonk's Adventure is the best selling Virtual Console game so far?
Yes, you are correct. Bonk is the best-selling VC game because the legions of Sega/Nintendo fans have never played it before, and they're discovering that they hate it. Chalk up another TurboChip DUD!
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 24, 2006, 11:51:47 AM
shut up. :evil:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 24, 2006, 12:31:42 PM
If Bonk was on a HuCard, it would be so much better.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 24, 2006, 01:08:30 PM
The average HuCard is pretty lame, too. My point is, on the VC, a lot of people are buying the game they heard about but never played (that game being Bonk). However, it's an old game, and the control is somewhat sloppy. That was a complaint of mine when the game was new, even. So these people who never played a TG-16 are downloading this old game that holds *zero* nostalgic memories for them, and they're discovering: it looks old, it sounds old, and it plays old.
That's why, as Seldane pointed out, people on non-PCE forums are bashing the VC version of Bonk. They heard for years that it was the "Turbo's answer to Mario and Sonic", and they're underwhelmed. It's got nothing to do with TurboChip vs HuCard. It's got more to do with Bonk not having the same timeless appeal as Sonic or Mario. Bonk was a decent (but not great) game that TG-16 fans rallied around because they had nothing better.
The above covers my feelings on Legendary Axe, too. I'd be curious to see what members at non-PCE boards say once that gets released to the VC.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 24, 2006, 01:29:50 PM
Probably only like 10% of Turbochips are true garbage or kinda to pretty bad, where as the big systems have no less than 25% and some as high as like 40% or more.
Give a TG16 to someone who's never even seen one before and he'll disagree.
I'm not talking about the tastes of the jeniuses who bought a million copies of 50 Cent: Bullet Proof. The average g@meR would think that all TG-16, Genesis, NES & SNES games are completely worthless.
The average HuCard is pretty lame, too. My point is, on the VC, a lot of people are buying the game they heard about but never played (that game being Bonk). However, it's an old game, and the control is somewhat sloppy. That was a complaint of mine when the game was new, even. So these people who never played a TG-16 are downloading this old game that holds *zero* nostalgic memories for them, and they're discovering: it looks old, it sounds old, and it plays old.
That's why, as Seldane pointed out, people on non-PCE forums are bashing the VC version of Bonk. They heard for years that it was the "Turbo's answer to Mario and Sonic", and they're underwhelmed. It's got nothing to do with TurboChip vs HuCard. It's got more to do with Bonk not having the same timeless appeal as Sonic or Mario. Bonk was a decent (but not great) game that TG-16 fans rallied around because they had nothing better.
I don't think that the Sonic games have much timeless appeal for non-fans either. This last batch of garbage Sonic games should be the final nail in the coffin for the series for a while until it can get rebooted by someone other than Sonic Team who can do it some justice.
And although a modernization of the Mario formula works for the masses(New SMB), I don't think that the modern GaM3rZ could handle Super Mario Bros NES.
I also thought that Bonk's Adventure wasn't too special when I first rented it and after buying it after Revenge, it seemed less refined that the sequal. But after giving it the proper time, like all good to great games, it actually has a lot to offer and there's more gameplay than most people realize. I think most people just run through it with the turbo switches on.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 24, 2006, 04:15:22 PM
Quote from: Seldane
I've finished Legendary Axe, and I still don't like it. At all. I don't even know why I actually bothered to play through it. :P
That's why, as Seldane pointed out, people on non-PCE forums are bashing the VC version of Bonk. They heard for years that it was the "Turbo's answer to Mario and Sonic", and they're underwhelmed. It's got nothing to do with TurboChip vs HuCard. It's got more to do with Bonk not having the same timeless appeal as Sonic or Mario. Bonk was a decent (but not great) game that TG-16 fans rallied around because they had nothing better.
Refer to what Black_Tiger said:
Quote from: Black_Tiger
I'm not talking about the tastes of the jeniuses who bought a million copies of 50 Cent: Bullet Proof. The average g@meR would think that all TG-16, Genesis, NES & SNES games are completely worthless.
That is if people are even dissing Bonk to begin with.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 24, 2006, 05:18:20 PM
Quote
And although a modernization of the Mario formula works for the masses(New SMB), I don't think that the modern GaM3rZ could handle Super Mario Bros NES.
I think they could, for two reasons:
1) Many modern GaM3rZ already played Super Mario Bros in some form and have fond memories of the game. 2) Super Mario Bros was actually a really good game. Since most modern GaM3rZ care more about gameplay than graphics (truth), they'd probably be able to enjoy it. The reason modern GaM3rZ usually prefer stuff like Devil May Cry or Halo over retro action games is because DMC and Halo play better --- not because they look better.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 24, 2006, 05:32:50 PM
That's why, as Seldane pointed out, people on non-PCE forums are bashing the VC version of Bonk.
Actually, it's because they're closet snerds who don't want to admit they missed out on anything.
Quote
The reason modern GaM3rZ usually prefer stuff like Devil May Cry or Halo over retro action games is because DMC and Halo play better --- not because they look better.
never played DMC, but as far as halo, you're full of it. playing it literally hurts my hands. few other games do that to me.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: runinruder on December 24, 2006, 05:35:47 PM
The reason modern GaM3rZ usually prefer stuff like Devil May Cry or Halo over retro action games is because DMC and Halo play better --- not because they look better.
Zig has a point here. Chaos Legion annihilates Rondo of Blood.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 24, 2006, 05:44:03 PM
Devil May Cry does NOT play well, and Halo is pretty bad, too. I do like Super Monkey Ball, however! And Shenmue! And F-Zero GX! And Dead Rising!
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 24, 2006, 05:48:03 PM
Shenmue plays like a joke. Ryo is inept in his normal environment, and the fight scenes are a mockery of Virtua Fighter. If Shenmue were a TurboChip, it would be a DUD.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: malducci on December 24, 2006, 06:37:09 PM
And although a modernization of the Mario formula works for the masses(New SMB), I don't think that the modern GaM3rZ could handle Super Mario Bros NES.
I think they could, for two reasons:
1) Many modern GaM3rZ already played Super Mario Bros in some form and have fond memories of the game. 2) Super Mario Bros was actually a really good game. Since most modern GaM3rZ care more about gameplay than graphics (truth), they'd probably be able to enjoy it. The reason modern GaM3rZ usually prefer stuff like Devil May Cry or Halo over retro action games is because DMC and Halo play better --- not because they look better.
I don't think that quite true( some truth yeah, but not the whole truth). Most modern games do have different game play in comparison to the 16bit era, But I think graphics do matter to the kids now-a-days that didn't grow up with these oldies back in the day. Their experience with 2D is on current systems/consoles (including GBA) and not like the early 16bit era. The popularity in snes emulation of its latter games with a generation that didn't really(or entirely) grow up with it, is evadent of this.
Halo is a seriously overated game.
Quote
Zig has a point here. Chaos Legion annihilates Rondo of Blood.
I hope you were being sarcastic because Chaos Legion is a crap ass game.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 24, 2006, 06:38:19 PM
I wouldn't say a game like Halo plays better than a game like Super Mario Bros. mainly for the fact that Super Mario Bros is a lot easier to play without much learning and only having to use two buttons. This is exactly why I avoid most modern games; too much time wasted blabbling how to play a game instead of just getting to the point and letting me figure out how to play it. Not saying that any game that does this is just a flat out bad game because sometimes they can be very good, but I'm after simplicity myself.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 24, 2006, 10:39:38 PM
I agree. Nowadays games have forced (and unskippable) tutorials that take forever to get through before you can actually start the real game. Okami comes to mind. Lots of people get huge erections and squirt gallons of cum all over themselves when Okami is mentioned. I am not one of them.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: FM-77 on December 24, 2006, 11:51:51 PM
Halo rules. It is the best fps I have ever played. It is so mind blowingly entertaining to play. Simple game, yes, but fun. TONS of fun. Play it before you say it is overrated. Play it for real.
Play it on pc though, you can't play an fps with an Xbox controller.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: MrFulci on December 25, 2006, 03:04:50 AM
hahah, this is such as silly thread, arguing over video games and what's better, etc.
You are all comparing apples and oranges, or maybe something a bit less similar, like.... apples and spinach...
Comparing Super Mario Bros. to Halo.... hahahhaha
I wore out Super Mario Bros years ago, I probably have the first 3 levels memorized though I haven't played the game in years. Add something to that list like Combat. I think most days I'd rather play Combat over Super Mario Bros.
For me, I would prefer many 16-bit and prior games to new stuff. That's just me, As there are some who wouldn't want to touch "old" games.
I had one visitor refer to the systems I own, and their games, as something along the lines of "Cheesy-ass". hahahah, he preferred his X-box and reccomended I get one.
It's all preference.
I saw when the Playstation launched, I didn't care for the look of the system, games, gameplay, etc. The most recent systems I paid much attention to were the Saturn and, to an extent, the wii. Never owned either of those 2, however.
Older games work for me, as they are easier for me to pick up and play, and if I only have 20 min or so to fool around with a game, I can load up something like splatterhouse and play through a certain level, etc. Plus, I prefer to spread my time out with other things now, and that's also why I'd rather stick with what I have. If I were to ever get another system, it would be a Supergun.
It's a matter of preference.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: FM-77 on December 25, 2006, 03:14:09 AM
Remember that the SMB (1-3, World and YI) games on GBA are the best-selling games on the system. Kids play those games and love them. Today.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 25, 2006, 05:41:18 AM
Quote
I wouldn't say a game like Halo plays better than a game like Super Mario Bros. mainly for the fact that Super Mario Bros is a lot easier to play
I didn't say that either. I was citing Super Mario Bros as an exception -- it's one of the few NES games that is actually really good (see Seldane's above post for evidence of its timeless appeal). On the other hand, Halo definitely plays much better than something like Bonk.
To that other guy: Chaos Legion is a fantastic game that truly shows off how far action titles have come (in terms of music/graphics/control) in the past 10 years. And it doesn't have a forced tutorial! If Chaos Legion were on TurboChip, then this topic would not exist, because it would single-handedly redeem the entire format.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 25, 2006, 07:00:07 AM
The GBA SMB's have the 'SMB' brand name, which still means something and most of the major GBA SMB's are decent games with graphics that were still current for GBA when they were released.
It's the same way licensed games sell truck loads. All it takes is the name. I don't think that anyone bought any of the Pokemon Coloseum games or Pokemon TV (or 50 Cent) because of the deep gameplay, because there isn't any.
The GBA SMB1 one sold well(if it really did) because of the SMB name and older players who played it before on NES. A large number of parents would've bought it just because it said 'SMB', especially becase of the slightly lower price. And for any parents looking to buy GBA gifts who didn't get that far on their own, all it would take is one of those sleazy game store employees telling them that "it's the latest SMB release for GBA!" to sell a few more hundred thousand copies.
Just as so many kids can handle SNES SMB's, I think that they could handle the Bonk games if there was enough motivation for them to give them a serious play.
If there are some snerds online trashing VC Bonk, thats only the minority net nerds that don't represent the general public. Otherwise Psychonauts would already have 3 sequals out.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 25, 2006, 07:32:20 AM
Quote
Just as so many kids can handle SNES SMB's, I think that they could handle the Bonk games if there was enough motivation for them to give them a serious play.
That's one of the problems with the Virtual Console: there isn't enough motivation for people to give these games a serious play.
They need Achievements. Then people would be plenty motivated to play the games seriously.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 25, 2006, 08:03:22 AM
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/guy-jin/saviorSV.jpg) will you stop whining about hucards now? :p
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 25, 2006, 08:12:13 AM
I'm not whining about HuCards, I'm whining about TurboChips. :roll:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 25, 2006, 08:19:10 AM
Exactly. HuCards are so much better than TuboChips. The same exact game on a HuCard is a winner whereas it is a dud on a TuboChip. HuCards are just so much more powerful.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 25, 2006, 08:27:37 AM
But all the turbochips are labeled HuCard on the back! So if you just ignore the manuals, there is no such thing as a turbochip!
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 25, 2006, 09:06:25 AM
Just as so many kids can handle SNES SMB's, I think that they could handle the Bonk games if there was enough motivation for them to give them a serious play.
That's one of the problems with the Virtual Console: there isn't enough motivation for people to give these games a serious play.
They need Achievements. Then people would be plenty motivated to play the games seriously.
Although I think that Xbox360 achievements for the sake of achievements is kinda lame, but the Capcom Classics style uinlockables are a great idea and I really wish they'd do something similar with VC titles.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: GUTS on December 25, 2006, 12:11:27 PM
Halo is the Super Mario Bros 3 of first person shooters.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: malducci on December 25, 2006, 04:22:31 PM
Quote
To that other guy: Chaos Legion is a fantastic game that truly shows off how far action titles have come (in terms of music/graphics/control) in the past 10 years.
Yup, that's sooo true. Man, I'm really glad you pointed that out to me :roll:
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 25, 2006, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: guyjin
But all the turbochips are labeled HuCard on the back! So if you just ignore the manuals, there is no such thing as a turbochip!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of my Turbo games just got 900% better!! I actually like the games I said I hated now. Like 'em a lot!
OK, for the first time in this thread I am going to be serious: I don't care much for the term "TurboChip". I always use the term "HuCard". And I am not sure why there would even be a difference, which is what all of my posts in this thread elude to. I am under the impression that the original poster likes Japanese stuff because it is more 1337 and doesn't like American stuff because the artwork doesn't look as good or something, hence his demand that we only talk about crappy American TurboChips and not Godly Japanese HuCards.
I say we just talk about overrated games in general, whether they are US or Japanese, card or CD.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 25, 2006, 08:00:59 PM
But all the turbochips are labeled HuCard on the back! So if you just ignore the manuals, there is no such thing as a turbochip!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of my Turbo games just got 900% better!! I actually like the games I said I hated now. Like 'em a lot!
OK, for the first time in this thread I am going to be serious: I don't care much for the term "TurboChip". I always use the term "HuCard". And I am not sure why there would even be a difference, which is what all of my posts in this thread elude to. I am under the impression that the original poster likes Japanese stuff because it is more 1337 and doesn't like American stuff because the artwork doesn't look as good or something, hence his demand that we only talk about crappy American TurboChips and not Godly Japanese HuCards.
I say we just talk about overrated games in general, whether they are US or Japanese, card or CD.
Alright, overrated games:
Sapphire -not as good as many SCD games. The graphics aren't teg b3st, just good. The gameplay is good, but not legendary. And no, it doesn't push better 3D grafx than a PSX.
Shubibinman 3 -feels like an unfinished beta copy to me. I usually encounter at least a bug or two while playing, the sound doesn't match the action and it seems to be missing sfx and it just seems like a bunch of stuff thrown together instead of planned out levels that respond to gameplay. Not total garbage, but not one of the better PCE games (in my opinion).
Cosmic Fantasy 2 -I don't agree with those who say it's complete garbage, but I don't blame them for faulting the basic game outside all of the positive aesthetics. Plus, no boss fight should ever take an hour.
Beyond Shadowgate -The graphics aren't very nice, outside of a majority of the non-city bg's. But even those should've been given more than 16 colors and touched up. Some terrible sprite art which looks like the doodles of a teenager(but decent in some places). It's a fine game for what it is, especially considering the lack of competition on the TG-16 and 16-bit gen, but the TG-16 could've hosted a far superior King's Quest type game. It'd definitely be worth buying for under $30, but $200 is only for display purposes.
I am now ready to be flamed and banned from the Turbo community. :-#
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: FM-77 on December 25, 2006, 11:36:58 PM
I'm speechless!! :D
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 26, 2006, 11:38:32 AM
Quote
I am under the impression that the original poster likes Japanese stuff because it is more 1337 and doesn't like American stuff because the artwork doesn't look as good or something, hence his demand that we only talk about crappy American TurboChips and not Godly Japanese HuCards.
I've explained my reason for dedicating this topic to TurboChips not just once but three times, and it has nothing at all to do with "America bad, Japan good". Therefore, I must assume that Joe Redifer is mentally deficient.
Joe Redifer, I demand that you cease and desist. Your tireless praising of HuCards is uncalled for in a thread about TurboChip DUDS.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 26, 2006, 11:57:37 AM
If you were a mod, I might listen to you. Just because you started the thread doesn't mean you make the rules.
Anyway, why not just say "US card games" or similar instead of talking about TurboChips and HuCards? Like previously mentioned, all TurboChips are HuCards. Nowhere on the game itself does it say "TurboChip". I did read your first post but skimmed your others, since they mostly seemed ranting and annoyed. Also not sure why CD games are excluded (again I only skimmed your following posts). CD games can be just as craptacular if not moreso that card games. I am definitely mentally deficient, though. :^o
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Michael Helgeson on December 26, 2006, 12:11:31 PM
Weird,I never once in my life refered to any Tg-16 release as a Turbochip. It plainly states Hu-card on them. Some of the games you guys are bitching about dont deserve it really. I do agree Cosmic Fantasy 2 boss fights are long,but the game was worth it all in the end after I beat it. I loved that game and totally hated Final Fantasy 2,go fig.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: vestcoat on December 26, 2006, 03:37:24 PM
"Turbochips", in addition to being an easy way to distinguish domestic releases from imports, are also far superior to Hucards as a media format. After all, what better way to display turbo-graphics on your TurboGrafx than with a Turbochip! I have no doubt NEC created them as a last ditch effort to stand up to the awesome power of Sega's MEGA cartridges and Sega Cards and break their monoply on the US 8-bit market...
Back on topic, whether or not a game is a "dud" is mostly a matter of personal taste. I find relatively playable games to be "duds" for a couple of reasons. One type of duds are average games that fall flat because the library is already saturated with other games of the same genre. IMO, JJ and Jeff, Time Cruise and Dragon Spirit are good examples. JJ and Jeff has decent play control and is challenging but sucks when compared to other platformers on the Turbo. I've barely played Dragon Spirit because of all the other shooters in my collection and Time Cruise sucks compared to Devils Crush. Another type of duds are games that just don't hold my interest long enough to figure out if they're good or not. Tricky Kick and lot of sports games like Championship Boxing and TV Sports Football are examples of this. Tricky Kick looks cool, but each screen is a logic puzzle that can only be solved one way and I just don't have the patience for it. I barely know anything about football and haven't played CB because of the intricate controls.
On the other hand, I find myself spending a fair amount of time playing crappy games that are often criticized; games like Darkwing Duck, Deep Blue, Pacland and Sonic Spike. I play these games for the same reason my RPGs are collecting dust: I don't have a lot of time and most often just want something quick and brainless. This means my shooters, platformers and pinball games have been getting a lot of use these days. Even though the four games I listed aren't the best, the controls are easy and I can space out for a few minutes without digging up a manual or password. I also play some terrible games simply because they are completely unique. Falcon and Yo Bro both suck but I don't own any other games quite like them and they intrigue me.
Now, why I play Deep Blue and Darkwing Duck instead of Dragon Spirit and JJ and Jeff I'll never know... :?
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: nat on December 26, 2006, 04:47:44 PM
Deep Blue!!
It's because Deep Blue has an otherworldly charm to it, that's why.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: runinruder on December 26, 2006, 05:02:00 PM
Dragon Spirit is slow and ugly. Deep Blue has lots of action, appealing visuals, nice music, and huge bosses.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: GUTS on December 26, 2006, 05:25:59 PM
Anyone who doesn't like Chaos Legion is a mentally deficient f*cktard.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: FM-77 on December 26, 2006, 07:42:24 PM
Dude, Dragon Spirit rules complete-rulesance! Maybe not the greatest gameplay, but the music makes up for it. Best music on the PC Engine? TOTALLY!!
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Michael Helgeson on December 27, 2006, 07:11:37 AM
Anyone who doesn't like Chaos Legion is a mentally deficient f*cktard.
I had it for PC at one point in time,I thought it was totally bad ass. I need to buy it again.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 27, 2006, 09:43:12 AM
I can't see how HuCards = Good if Turbo Chips = Da suck. I think we got most of the good HuCards out here in America as Turbo Chips. There are a few HuCard gems that are only in Japan, but for the most part I am happy with what we got in America. CDs are another story.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 29, 2006, 12:59:22 PM
Another DUD....
Splatterhouse Two words: Censored. Kiddy-fied.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 29, 2006, 01:13:59 PM
What was censored or changed in the American version besides the mask?
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 29, 2006, 01:47:58 PM
i think some christian-related imagery was removed. (upside down crosses?)
Edit: Yes. "There was also a later boss - an upside down cross - than was altered to be a floating head in the TG16 release." from http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/splatterhouse/splatterhouse.htm
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 29, 2006, 02:24:12 PM
Pah-lease, I'll take the cooler, scary mask of the TG16 version over the "horrorifying" upside down crosses of the Japanese version :) . Also, the American version has a cooler cover!
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: guyjin on December 29, 2006, 02:33:16 PM
just had a funny thought:
'there's no such thing as bad publicity".
NEC (or whoever) should have left the upside-down cross in. This would have pissed off the fundies, generating publicity, and therefore sales.
And yes, it does work this way: Back during the satanic panic of the 80's, Dungeons and dragons was banned in Utah. (the ban didn't stand up in court, but it was enforced for a while.) Utah immediately became a black hole of gaming; stores just over the border couldn't keep stuff in stock, and farther places also noticed increased sales.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 29, 2006, 06:48:34 PM
I don't recall the mask ever being purple in the TG-16 version. I always remember it as white and I used to own the game. Purple looks so odd and stupid to me.
I have played the arcade on MAME and whatnot and it certainly doesn't seem like much, if really anything significant was removed from the home version. The arcade certainly isn't any more gory. If there were some upside-down crosses removed, I think I'll be able to live without them. Blame the Jesus-freaks for that one, I guess.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: nat on December 29, 2006, 08:07:50 PM
The TG-16 port was nearly perfect. But not quite. I actually like "Evil Sleep and the Nightmares" (the boss that replaed the cross).
Besides that, I think the only thing missing was some minor BG detail here and there.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 30, 2006, 06:50:03 AM
* On the home version (both Chip and Card), the axe weapon was replaced by a golden machete. * On the TurboChip version, the white hockey mask was changed into a purple not-hockey mask. * On the TurboChip version, the upside-down cross boss was replaced by a floating head. This was particularly dumb because the boss is encountered at an altar, so an upside-down cross makes sense. * Sprites were bigger on the arcade version. * Arcade version has superior gradients. * The music blew on every version, so the Chip is faithful there.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: esteban on December 30, 2006, 08:40:19 AM
* On the home version (both Chip and Card), the axe weapon was replaced by a golden machete. * On the TurboChip version, the white hockey mask was changed into a purple not-hockey mask. * On the TurboChip version, the upside-down cross boss was replaced by a floating head. This was particularly dumb because the boss is encountered at an altar, so an upside-down cross makes sense. * Sprites were bigger on the arcade version. * Arcade version has superior gradients. * The music blew on every version, so the Chip is faithful there.
Well, it's actually a ruddy red-colored mask, not purple. The golden meat-cleaver is actually a friggin' awesome addition to the game and I wish it was available in more than one stage in the HuCard (needless to say, the golden meat cleaver should be in the arcade version). You missed some other things as well: there is more animation in the arcade version, especially the zombies chained to the walls in the background that projectile vomit at your feet.
Anyway, the point is that Emerald Rocker created this thread to annoy folks!
If Emeril Rocker was to be taken seriously in this thread, I'd say: TG-16 Splatterhouse contains enough nasty imagery (fetus-blob baby oozing on floor, bile-belching zombies, chainsaws, shotguns, dog-killing, hacking semen-fetuses in a womb, etc.) to make anyone happy. The loss of a sole inverted cross is lamentable, but Konami / NOA were even sillier when they removed all of the crosses from the Castlevania games.
But he's not to be taken seriously in this thread :).
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 30, 2006, 08:57:04 AM
I don't get what the big deal is with minor censorship in classic games. I'm glad that many U.S. versions are different, it makes them unique and worth playing seperate from the Japanese or arcade versions. And often something censored is more entertaining than the original.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 30, 2006, 10:03:17 AM
I agree with steve, the golden meat cleaver kicks ass! The TG16 version is simply the best ;) .
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 30, 2006, 11:13:26 AM
Quote from: Black_Tiger
I don't get what the big deal is with minor censorship in classic games.
Ask your good friend AirRaidX or whatever his name is. Any pixel that is even a slightly different hue than the arcade is a complete travesty and is worth the death penalty and anyone who plays this non-arcade version deserves to have their face inserted into a meat grinder for even daring to like it. Fortunately I agree with you and therefore remain at least somewhat sane.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: nodtveidt on December 30, 2006, 07:35:47 PM
Hrm duds...let's see here...
The Legendary Axe was definately not worth the price of admission. Main reason being is that it had very poor collision detection that dropped the fun factor through the floor. The game was a bore to play because you had no idea which enemy you were actually going to hit if two were approaching you, and forget about hitting an enemy that was over a powerup item that had to be hit to be destroyed...the powerup item got the priority, leaving you to get nailed (usually for tons of damage, as this game was severely unbalanced) by the enemy (or enemies in some cases).
Ballistix, although receiving quite a few hours of gameplay time from me, is definately another one not worth the price of admission. Interesting concept it was, but its execution was very poor. This was better as a computer game...at least there it had an excuse for being so subpar.
Impossamole is usually at the top of most people's lists of duds, and it's on mine as well. It's plain and simple, really...bad hit detection = bad game, no matter how nifty the visuals are. Though I did eventually beat this game a couple of times, it was an excruciatingly frustrating journey every step of the way. With some minor corrections, this could have been an outstanding game but as it is, it's not even good enough for the bargain bin at a dollar store.
Although not a complete dud, Vigilante could have been done a whole lot better. It looked something like its arcade counterpart, but the overall feel of the game was different and I dunno about anyone else but I got the feeling that I was being cheated. There were so many missing details. It played similar to the arcade, which was its real saving grace, but in both visuals and sound, it was really watered-down from its arcade parent and it suffered for that.
I guess that's about it, really. Although there was one HuCard in particular that I thought was complete garbage, and although it gets rave reviews from some for its nude women, I'd have to say that as a game, Strip Fighter II was a total piece of crap. It looks great as static pictures, but when the sprites start moving, it's hard to take the visuals seriously. Furthermore, the game controls like junk. I think Impossamole controls better. Yet another game that could have been a star, but is hindered by bad controls, bad animation, and more concentration on the porno aspect than on the game itself (it was just as much a common trend back then as it is now).
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 30, 2006, 08:19:02 PM
Strip Fighter was crap, good one to mention. I don't know why people tend to rave about it's graphics either, I thought it looked dirty as hell and the animation was mega choppy.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 30, 2006, 09:07:05 PM
Who programmed the Turbo version of Vigilante?
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 30, 2006, 09:31:49 PM
According to pcecp it was ported by Irem. Until now, I never knew that the arcade was an Irem game either.
I've never given much time to the arcade, SMS or PCE versions of Vigilante, but from what I've seen in screenshots, the PCE version looks very similar to the arcade.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: esteban on December 31, 2006, 01:35:01 AM
I don't get what the big deal is with minor censorship in classic games.
Ask your good friend AirRaidX or whatever his name is. Any pixel that is even a slightly different hue than the arcade is a complete travesty and is worth the death penalty and anyone who plays this non-arcade version deserves to have their face inserted into a meat grinder for even daring to like it. Fortunately I agree with you and therefore remain at least somewhat sane.
Hhahahahahaa. Holy snap, that's precisely how AirRaidX came across. I even wasted 10 minutes typing a long rebuttal to his Nazi-esque quest for pixel purity, but he largely ignored it. In his defense, he always maintained that he was attacking the folks / journalists who used the term "arcade perfect" with abandon. The distinction is important, but it didn't make AirRaidx's sermons any easier to swallow. I said "sermon", not semen, goddammit.
Getting back to the topic(s) at hand: I know we're not supposed to be defending any of the games listed as DUDS (as per Emeril Rockers instructions), but I am surprised with all the anti-Legendary Axe sentiment. LA is a fun (if challenging) game with great music and an absorbing atmosphere. I suspect that folks are put off by the game's difficulty, which is a shame, but not particularly surprising. There are some frustrating parts of the game, but they are hardly a deal-breaker. I remember being frustrated by the swinging vines early on... and it's no picnic when you get swatted from precarious platforms... and I stumbled upon the solution to the final maze by brute trial-and-error. But these are generic complaints that can be thrown at most games in the genre.
Timeball / Blodia is a great puzzle game, but I'm too lazy to find one of the many posts I've made defending it. :)
I want to address more games, but ...
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: vestcoat on December 31, 2006, 10:01:13 AM
Yeah, I'm a fan of LA and think it's a pretty sweet game for it's time. It's like Shape Shifter without any downtime futzing around in shops. However, the sequel depresses me for some reason. :(
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 31, 2006, 10:59:05 AM
Hhahahahahaa. Holy snap, that's precisely how AirRaidX came across. I even wasted 10 minutes typing a long rebuttal to his Nazi-esque quest for pixel purity, but he largely ignored it. In his defense, he always maintained that he was attacking the folks / journalists who used the term "arcade perfect" with abandon. The distinction is important, but it didn't make AirRaidx's sermons any easier to swallow. I said "sermon", not semen, goddammit.
That still doesn't explain this-
"I completely dominate the field of "what is not arcade perfect" within the videogame community. i have dozens of vids on youtube comparing GnG.
...oh and also, i have FAR more videos on youtube about Ghouls n Ghosts than you ever will."
Getting back to the topic(s) at hand: I know we're not supposed to be defending any of the games listed as DUDS (as per Emeril Rockers instructions), but I am surprised with all the anti-Legendary Axe sentiment. LA is a fun (if challenging) game with great music and an absorbing atmosphere. I suspect that folks are put off by the game's difficulty, which is a shame, but not particularly surprising. There are some frustrating parts of the game, but they are hardly a deal-breaker. I remember being frustrated by the swinging vines early on... and it's no picnic when you get swatted from precarious platforms... and I stumbled upon the solution to the final maze by brute trial-and-error. But these are generic complaints that can be thrown at most games in the genre.
Instructions in a forum like this are only a suggestion. :wink:
Seriously though, all the best threads are the ones that branched out into different/variant discussions.
Pretty much all of the faults Legendary Axe is accused of can be found in most generally praised 'classic' action/platformers. If anything, the very best untouchable series'/titles have some of the most extreme cases of particular offenses.
Someone mentioned the hit collision, or lack of it. Its not that the hit collision is sloppy, just the opposite. Like other non-standard games, the hit collision isn't just the invisible area right in front of you, it may sound crazy, but it's at the blade of the axe.
Ninga Gaiden NES is hailed as one of the greatest action/platformers, but in that game, your hitting area is somewhere around the tip of your sword. Try hitting an enemy that's too close and you're SOL. Even though it'd be logical that horizontal slice would hurt anything in front of you(you're not poking enemies).
But in LA, you're actually chopping with your axe, which makes sense that it doesn't destroy everything directly in front of you before you get hit. Like with any decent game, once you figure out how it works, it's pretty smooth sailing. I know that the first few times I played it like Sonic, just running through carelessly, I got my assed wooped.
Its pretty easy to see when you watch someone who knows how to play the game:
Although I love Valis II & III for what they are, I don't consider them high calibur action/platformers. But LA is one of the better ones on any console.
I still don't understand how some people can appreciate the art style of a game like Yoshi's Island but completely not 'get' LA's aesthetic.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 31, 2006, 11:58:51 AM
The first Legendary Axe is definitely overrated, even for its time. Magazines were proclaiming it to be one of the best games ever and definitely the best game for the Turbo at the time. EGM said "A definite 10!" It was supposed to be the end all be all of the next generation and was supposed to only be matched by Sega's Ghouls & Ghosts. It was hard to determine a winner between the Genesis and the TurboGrafx-16 at the time since Legendary Axe simply displayed so much RAW POWER!
Obviously they had never played Legendary Axe before writing these statements. The character never even picks his feet up off of the ground when walking, he just slided them back and forth. He has only two frames of animation when climbing up something, and one of those frames is just a mirrored version of the other, so he really only has one frame for climbing. Very NES-looking in that regard. Could have been much better especially since you spend the entire game looking at that same a$$hole. The game even had the fuzzy, shimmering scrolling like NES games. The music did indeed sound very NES-ish and certainly not much more powerful, if at all.
When I first bought the Genesis and a few games, I was finally able to rent a TurboGrafx to see what that system was all about. The first game I plugged in was Legendary Axe due to it's amazing next generation awesomeness it was said to possess. At that point I was glad I chose the Genesis over the Turbo because that game made me think the Turbo was basically a slightly faster NES with more colors. Why this game was so hyped back in the day is beyond me.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 31, 2006, 01:39:57 PM
The first Legendary Axe is definitely overrated, even for its time. Magazines were proclaiming it to be one of the best games ever and definitely the best game for the Turbo at the time. EGM said "A definite 10!" It was supposed to be the end all be all of the next generation and was supposed to only be matched by Sega's Ghouls & Ghosts. It was hard to determine a winner between the Genesis and the TurboGrafx-16 at the time since Legendary Axe simply displayed so much RAW POWER!
Obviously they had never played Legendary Axe before writing these statements. The character never even picks his feet up off of the ground when walking, he just slided them back and forth. He has only two frames of animation when climbing up something, and one of those frames is just a mirrored version of the other, so he really only has one frame for climbing. Very NES-looking in that regard. Could have been much better especially since you spend the entire game looking at that same a$$hole. The game even had the fuzzy, shimmering scrolling like NES games. The music did indeed sound very NES-ish and certainly not much more powerful, if at all.
When I first bought the Genesis and a few games, I was finally able to rent a TurboGrafx to see what that system was all about. The first game I plugged in was Legendary Axe due to it's amazing next generation awesomeness it was said to possess. At that point I was glad I chose the Genesis over the Turbo because that game made me think the Turbo was basically a slightly faster NES with more colors. Why this game was so hyped back in the day is beyond me.
Actually EGM was the magazine that trashed Legendary Axe, comparing the giant by 32-bit standards final boss sprite to the background with sprites for limbs final boss of Ghouls N Ghosts(which they said was supposed to be the end all be all of the next generation) as a slag against LA and the TG-16. I was a Genesis player back then and thought that it was a stupid comparison.
VG&CE gave LA the Game Of The Year award. But I never read that magazine regularly and never heard much of any acclaim given to LA. Which is part of why I only ever rented it back in the day and didn't give it much of a chance.
GamePro was Turbo friendly, often reviewing PC Engine games, but weren't biased towards the TG-16.
EGM however, overall was pretty hard on the TG-16 from the get go through till the end of the Duo. Of course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.
Even if by anyone's personal standards, Legendary Axe isn't teh next gen enough, its still a decent game and fun once you get the hang of it. Now more than ever, even if it wasn't what you were looking for aesthetically back then, it shouldn't matter now because judging games based on cutting edge technologicalessity, all 16-bit(and 8 - 128-bit) games are garbage.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Keranu on December 31, 2006, 02:16:49 PM
EGM however, overall was pretty hard on the TG-16 from the get go through till the end of the Duo. Of course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.
Right on.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 31, 2006, 02:44:27 PM
Before the Genesis and Turbo were released, EGM said Legendary Axe was a "Definite 10" and it was the game that made them think the Turbo was the better system. I am talking about my experiences then, so now doesn't matter. The game was clearly overrated then.
Quote
Of course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.
That's because today's gaming sucks ass, so even shitty games back then are friggin' awesome in comparison. :)
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 31, 2006, 04:13:04 PM
Before the Genesis and Turbo were released, EGM said Legendary Axe was a "Definite 10" and it was the game that made them think the Turbo was the better system. I am talking about my experiences then, so now doesn't matter. The game was clearly overrated then.
I guess that was before Sega started with the payola, only to be outbid later on by Nintendo and eventually Sony(and depending on who you ask, now Microsoft). :wink:
Of course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.
That's because today's gaming sucks ass, so even shitty games back then are friggin' awesome in comparison. :)
That's true... about today's games. :P
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 31, 2006, 04:28:27 PM
Quote
even if it wasn't what you were looking for aesthetically back then, it shouldn't matter now because judging games based on cutting edge technologicalessity, all 16-bit(and 8 - 128-bit) games are garbage.
I don't quite understand this statement. It sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter if we found LA aesthetically displeasing in the past, because it's technologically ancient now. However, I think it does matter --- there are a lot of games that have awesome aesthetics, but are not (and never were) technologically cutting edge.
Aesthetics are why I still find some games, such as El Viento with its exaggerated explosions, to be visually pleasing... whereas artistically bankrupt games, such as Nanobreaker, actually look worse despite being more technologically advanced.
Maybe I missed some sarcasm?
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Black Tiger on December 31, 2006, 04:44:04 PM
even if it wasn't what you were looking for aesthetically back then, it shouldn't matter now because judging games based on cutting edge technologicalessity, all 16-bit(and 8 - 128-bit) games are garbage.
I don't quite understand this statement. It sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter if we found LA aesthetically displeasing in the past, because it's technologically ancient now. However, I think it does matter --- there are a lot of games that have awesome aesthetics, but are not (and never were) technologically cutting edge.
Aesthetics are why I still find some games, such as El Viento with its exaggerated explosions, to be visually pleasing... whereas artistically bankrupt games, such as Nanobreaker, actually look worse despite being more technologically advanced.
Maybe I missed some sarcasm?
Basically JR was dissapointed when he first tried it, because it wasn't next genny enough at the time(more like a turbo NES). I had a similar experience with Altered Beast Genesis.
But NES games can still look and sound great. And even though a lot of us in the past may have dismissed previous generations as soon as the new ones appeared, everyone here can now appreciate classic games for what they are instead of being blinded by what they aren't.
The reverse is also true. Lots of people play crappy games and let a lot of things slide because of the technically killer graphics or some other contemporary gimmick(like a hip license). But once the technical display(seperate from art) or license/gimmick is old news, going back to those kinds of games can reveal how crappy or just plain not fun they really are.
In the case of Legendary Axe, I didn't really like the graphics and sound when I rented it back in the day, because of the time I played it(I was looking for something more cutting edge).
I probably had a similar experience as Joe back then, I was dissapointed at not being wowed right off the bat. If something reminded me of the NES or didn't feel 16-bitty enough, then I figured it must be bad. So I never gave it a fair chance. But years later I tried it again and was impressed by it all round.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: Emerald Rocker on December 31, 2006, 07:50:38 PM
Got it now. Thanks.
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: nodtveidt on January 01, 2007, 07:17:43 AM
The problem with LA's coldet has nothing to do with its range. It has to do with its premature failure. It works a little like this...in most coldet methods, you check a range of entities. In this case, collision with the powerup items were counted first, then collision with enemy entities. A correct coldet will check for all items within range, and will count all types of entities. LA's fails this by exiting the coldet function as soon as a single truth is fired. In other words...it bails out as soon as you hit a single entity, even if realistically, you should have hit two or more. Because LA's coldet function places powerup items as top priority, it fails as soon as one is truthed, and because of that, skips over all enemy entities (and all other item entities in range as well).
Does it make the game harder? Of course it does! Is that a good thing? No! Games are supposed to be hard on their own merits, not due to a technical limitation of the game engine. Bad coldet, cheap/forced hits, etc...these are details that frustrate gamers and cause them to have less fun playing the game...and make that game end up on lists like these. :D
Title: Re: TurboChip DUDS
Post by: esteban on January 09, 2007, 01:01:34 PM
OK, after catching up on this thread, I just wanted to say, first, that I agree with all of the points that Black_Tiger said in defense of LA.
Furthermore, I had the same experience as he and Joe had with LA when I first played it (and many other TG-16 / Genesis titles): it didn't seem like a hardcore "next-gen" game. Bleeding edge, if you will. Far from it. Instead, I felt it was an enhanced NES title. I still enjoyed LA, as stated earlier, but it didn't invoke the "cutting edge" feeling that, say, Strider or Shinobi III did.
LA II, on the other hand, had such a brooding atmosphere and polished graphics that I felt it was a proper "16-bit" title, even if the gameplay was a familiar formula. Another example: Blazing Lazers, for me, definitely felt like a proper 16-bit game... it was the complete package, despite the fact that Lifeforce on NES had equally compelling gameplay.
That said, I still like the aesthetics in LA. I think they are very kool. If I had a complaint, I'd say that there should have been a larger cast of enemies. And the eagle, or hawk, or whatever it was: it looked like crap. All the other sprites in the game were really nice, but the eagle was horrendous. And Emeril Rocker was right about the exploration in LA: there is none, really. LA would have benefitted from multiple paths in the stages and more exploration for required items. Or perhaps not. Perhaps the slow-pacing of LA would be unbearable if it was less linear and required exploration. And Joe's right about Gogan sliding around.