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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Spector on February 23, 2007, 08:55:42 PM
Title: Gradius
Post by: Spector on February 23, 2007, 08:55:42 PM
There's a rumour going about that Gradius is a good game, though having played it for the first time last night, I can't confirm this to be true. There's something I need to ask about the power up system:
On the first level, you get to meet a boss whose entrance is preceded by spurting lava balls. If you have not got the orange ball protection on your ship (called "option"), you will die no matter what you do. If I fail to kill the end of level boss, I will be sent back to the bit just before when you meet him. You lose all your power ups, and there are not enough orange globules to get your power up meter back to "option" so that you can get the protection on your ship.
What this means in short is that, if I fail to kill the end of level boss on stage one at my first attempt, the game is effectively over, because it's impossible to go past the boss without the shield protection which you can no longer power up to.
Is this anyone's idea of good game design?
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: ccovell on February 23, 2007, 11:49:06 PM
Welcome to game design, circa 1986.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Digi.k on February 24, 2007, 12:33:27 AM
hehe *uses the thread as an excuse to post some pages from pc engine manual*
If you find gradius a bit tough, you could try the code! Just pause the screen and press; up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, II, I and unpause! Although you can only do this a few times.
The planet Gradius, a peaceful Earth-like world is now under attack from an old nemesis, aliens from subspace star cluster of Bacterion! To save your world you must launch the prototype hyper space fighter, the Vic Viper and take out the super fortress Xaerous, To reach this you have to steal enemy power capsules along your route and boost the Vic Vipers weapon powers! (Story is from the European booklet of Gradius).
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Spector on February 24, 2007, 01:11:50 AM
Not the games I've played - Uridium from the same year on the C64/Spectrum is far better in this regard. Xevious has power ups, as does 1942, but they are not essential to getting past any stage of the game. I can't believe how flawed the design is in Gradius. People criticise Kung Fu as simplistic, but at least your progress in the game is in your own hands. With Gradius, it isn't.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 24, 2007, 04:18:55 AM
If I ruled the world, saying anything bad about 80's/90's era Konami would carry the death penalty.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on February 24, 2007, 05:47:38 AM
Gradius for PCE is better than Gradius in the Arcades! We(The Turbo Loyal) Got the best Gradius Ever IMO.
TS
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Spector on February 24, 2007, 06:00:51 AM
If I ruled the world, saying anything bad about 80's/90's era Konami would carry the death penalty.
I know- it's not something I was expecting to feel, but compared to an earlier game like Xevious, I just don't rate it so far. I mean, to get past the first guy, you take a certain position and just keep pressing fire the stop the lava balls getting you. There's no rhythm or movement in it at all. And if you die in certain places, the game is hopelessly hard, as you don't have the weapons to carry on to the next stage. I'll keep playing, but It's not looking great right now.
If I ruled the world, saying anything bad about 80's/90's era Konami would carry the death penalty.
I know- it's not something I was expecting to feel, but compared to an earlier game like Xevious, I just don't rate it so far. I mean, to get past the first guy, you take a certain position and just keep pressing fire the stop the lava balls getting you. There's no rhythm or movement in it at all. And if you die in certain places, the game is hopelessly hard, as you don't have the weapons to carry on to the next stage. I'll keep playing, but It's not looking great right now.
I think there is more to the design here than you are giving credit for. Sometimes the path of least resistance is not the most obvious one.
The first boss is a chump. You actually don't sneed a SINGLE POWER UP to defeat him. That's right, not one. If you want to school him, go immediately to the upper right hand corner before the lava comes. Hide there until it stops. Be careful not to touch the rocks up there, though.
After the lava stops, drop down. It will take 4 or 5 carefully placed hits to own this weasel. You need to aim for his exact middle. There are three or four barrier-things that protect the inner core. These take one hit each but you need to be precise with your shots. One, two, three, they're gone. Now as soon as the core turns blue land a hit or two on it and he's dogmeat. Again, you can do this easily without a SINGLE power up.
Gradius for PCE is better than Gradius in the Arcades! We(The Turbo Loyal) Got the best Gradius Ever IMO.
Ah, but what about the slowdown? It's pretty bad at times.
I find you'll only experience this if you're using the "Double" weapon and have 827,456,980 options around you. I tend to use the laser weapon most of the time which isn't as prone to cause slowdown and is actually a better weapon for most things. I also try to take it easy on the options since too many can clutter the screen and make it easy for me to lose track of my ship. There is one place in stage 4 the "Double" weapon is a must though.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: GUTS on February 24, 2007, 06:42:38 AM
I agree, Gradius has always been total shit, the whole series. The powerup system is f*cking retarded, even at full power your ship is pathetically weak, and they haven't added anything new to the formula in 20 f*cking years. Salamander mopped the floor with Gradius, at least it had an interesting premise and a power up system that made some sense.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: FM-77 on February 24, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
Gradius sucks. I like the power-up system but that's it. The game is terrible.
Why is the damn game so hard? You know the classic Konami cheat code? Yeah, you can use it in Gradius for the NES. ONCE!! They even limited the number of times you can cheat! How crazy is that?!
Yep. That's one nasty game...
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 24, 2007, 03:23:00 PM
Well, if we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, shooter (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/space-megaforce) perfection (http://www.mobygames.com/game/r-type-iii-the-third-lightning/) isn't (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/axelay) on (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/gradius-iii) NEC (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/jikkyou-oshaberi-parodius) systems (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/cybernator).
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 24, 2007, 03:33:49 PM
It isn't on the SNES, either.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 24, 2007, 03:51:41 PM
BTW, if you're the same Joe Redifer from OCR, I LOVE your remixes!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 24, 2007, 04:40:56 PM
very easy answer to his question there. if someone got killed within the first level, done by its own inanity, then he deserves nothin' more than to be forced to move the fingers to the middle of the pad and press run+sel!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: TR0N on February 24, 2007, 05:43:15 PM
This is the only version of, Gradius that any one should play on console. (http://image4.play-asia.com/350/PA.05390.001.jpg)
There's been times i've been tempted by the pce version.
Even if it does have exclusive levels.. the idea of slow down makes me cringe.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: sunteam_paul on February 24, 2007, 10:27:48 PM
Well, if we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, shooter (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/space-megaforce) perfection (http://www.mobygames.com/game/r-type-iii-the-third-lightning/) isn't (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/axelay) on (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/gradius-iii) NEC (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/jikkyou-oshaberi-parodius) systems (http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/cybernator).
That (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Gate_of_Thunder.htm) argument (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Winds_of_Thunder.htm) can (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Super_Star_Soldier.htm) be (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Spriggan.htm) quite (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Ultimate_Tiger.htm) easily (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Soldier_Blade.htm) countered (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Nexzr.htm) you (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/R-Type_I.htm) know. (http://pcenginebible.roarvgm.com/HTML_Games/Coryoon.htm)
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: FM-77 on February 25, 2007, 01:57:03 AM
The best shooters are on Atari 2600. Everybody knows this. :roll:
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 25, 2007, 02:24:27 AM
even the fools know!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 25, 2007, 04:15:54 AM
HUH UH AH HUH HUH HUH. :lol:
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: akamichi on February 25, 2007, 04:18:19 AM
River Raid and Megamania FTW!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: grahf on February 25, 2007, 06:37:34 AM
It took me a few weeks, but Gradius was the first shooter I played through on the PCE. Its just one of those type where its memorize-or-die. I still enjoyed it a lot.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Keranu on February 25, 2007, 02:47:40 PM
Actually the Atari 2600 does have one of my favorite shooters, Space Jockey. Also has tons of other great classic shmups.
Quote from: Tatsujin
even the fools know!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Fj0Hul6-M
I wish gamers were still like that :( .
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 25, 2007, 02:51:42 PM
A huge LOL at the guy who thinks SNES shooters are good, that was hilarious.
but axelay is an excellent shmup in its own way. there can't be made a proper comparison between PCE and SFC shmups anyway. they're too different in style and each has its own strength! i also prefere GoT. actually i prefer GoT over almost all shmups out there in the galaxy! but a fact is, that the good SFC shmups repetoire is small, very small!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: termis on February 25, 2007, 04:44:12 PM
SNES shooters.... Ummm........ well, Axelay is the only good one that comes to mind. Ah wait, Area 88 was decent fun. I'm sure there's few other worthy ones, but Tatsujin says, shooters weren't the SNES's strength.
For that era, Genesis had my favorite shooters (TF series and Gaiares), though the TG16 certainly wasn't short on em either.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 25, 2007, 04:47:09 PM
and how about super aleste, macross valkyre scramble, parodius da!, pop'n twin bee? excellent as well. as i just said. there're some good ones, but they're rare!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 25, 2007, 04:50:35 PM
Again, you can do this easily without a SINGLE power up.
Totally agree! You can actually do every passage of every level without a single power up. Some are extremely hard and you need some practice to beat them but none of them are impossible as I can tell from my own experience.
I like Gradius a lot and it's not as hard as it seems once you get into it and know where the critical passages are.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: FM-77 on February 25, 2007, 09:04:01 PM
Super Aleste = beats pretty much anything.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 25, 2007, 10:01:48 PM
coz it's a compile!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: sunteam_paul on February 26, 2007, 04:48:45 AM
I used to detest shmups until I got a PC Engine. It showed me the light.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Spector on February 26, 2007, 06:36:42 AM
I used to detest shmups until I got a PC Engine. It showed me the light.
There must have been one game that changed your mind - which one was it? R-Type?
I'm not sure. I think it was a combination of Super Star Soldier, Kyukyoku Tiger and others that really opened my eyes to shmups. R-Type was always cool, I had it on the Master System and liked it a lot.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 26, 2007, 10:25:17 AM
I like SNES shooters, I think they sometimes get a pretty bad rap from people. That said, I do prefer the PCE's shooters more.
Its like Snerds who only like SNES RPGs.
Just because there are things even better it doesn't that everything else sux.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2007, 06:22:04 PM
Gradius remains an awesome game to this day. Period.
Complaining about checkpoints or limited firepower = whinging. Period.
A good game allows you to continue from the checkpoints... but nobody said it was going to be easy. This is what makes the game great: you have to develop alternate strategies depending on your situation (i.e. power-ups). And the time you spend simply trying to survive is useful: you will inevitably find yourself in a similar predicament later in the game. Don't choke!
:)
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 27, 2007, 12:22:03 AM
keep the frequency clear O:)
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: FM-77 on February 27, 2007, 05:45:00 AM
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: GUTS on February 27, 2007, 07:03:22 AM
Are you guys serious about Space Megaforce? Holy f*cking shit! That is the slowest, most boring SHIT pile of a shooter I have ever played. f*cking Xevious is about 10 times more interesting and challenging. Megaforce isn't a shooter, it's a showcase for how NOT to use Mode 7 effects in a game. MUSHA was 4 million times the game Megaforce is.
Macross was sweet though. But the fact is the Duo absolutely burries the SNES for shooters, its not even a contest. The SNES had a strong RPG and platformer line-up, but its not even in the same ballpark as the Duo and Genesis for shooters.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 27, 2007, 12:24:41 PM
Are you guys serious about Space Megaforce? Holy f*cking shit! That is the slowest, most boring SHIT pile of a shooter I have ever played. f*cking Xevious is about 10 times more interesting and challenging. Megaforce isn't a shooter, it's a showcase for how NOT to use Mode 7 effects in a game.
I actually thought that it moved at a decent clip according to the design of the game. And the soundtrack is phenomenal!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on February 27, 2007, 01:00:38 PM
what's going on? super aleste is an excellent shmup, out of any questions. the only disturbing thing is its boring and useless bonus-stages. also the main-stages turned out to be a little bit to long IMO. and concerned to the SFC specs. an absolut master piece in programming!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Spector on March 09, 2007, 09:48:04 AM
Just as a footnote, I played the Gameboy version which is a bit easier, and enjoyed it a lot. Going back to the PC Engine version, I am beginning to appreciate it now for what it is - a very good shoot-em-up. Still prefer R-Type though.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Digi.k on March 09, 2007, 03:21:13 PM
and not forgetting the special warp points and special stages on Gradius!!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: GUTS on March 09, 2007, 05:58:41 PM
All I know is that if you mention Space Megaforce to any serious shooter fan you'll be laughed out of wherever you are. The game is a total joke once you get past the graphics. You want a snes shooter that rules AND has awesome graphics then Macross is the way to go, not megaforce.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on March 10, 2007, 12:59:51 AM
All I know is that if you mention Space Megaforce to any serious shooter fan you'll be laughed out of wherever you are. The game is a total joke once you get past the graphics. You want a snes shooter that rules AND has awesome graphics then Macross is the way to go, not megaforce.
SM's soundtrack kicks ass though. Get the SPC and listen to "Black Hole Anomalies" and tell me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Ninja Spirit on March 10, 2007, 01:08:56 AM
What about Super Famicom Spriggan Powered? I didn't like that one much. Sure most of the graphics were 3-D rendered and a great soundtrack but I wasn't feeling the weapons. If they lightened down on the rendering, it could've been just as solid as Macross SV was.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Michael Helgeson on March 10, 2007, 04:32:18 AM
I totally hated Space Megaforce. I thought it was a f*cking joke and back then I did not think much of Compile,but years latter after realizing how many good games they made it was sad to see they made Super Aleste/Space Megaforce. I still to this day feel like even some of the first shooters on Megadrive like Thunderforce 2 and Curse are worlds better then SM.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Zor Prime on March 10, 2007, 05:57:51 AM
Is Gradius anything like Life Force on the NES? The powerup system and general design looks the same.
Life Force was spectacular.
I'd really like to check out Gradius PCE if it's anything like Life Force was/is.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Spector on March 10, 2007, 09:38:14 AM
Well Life Force was a follow up of sorts to Gradius, so yes, it is similar. Though Salamader on the PCE is even more similar to Life Force, since it's the same game!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: nat on March 10, 2007, 07:10:12 PM
Zor, it goes like this:
1985 - Gradius/Nemesis 1986 - Salamander/Life Force 1988 - Gradius II
...and various other sequels on the SNES (Gradius III) and other platforms.
Gradius II is the direct sequel to Gradius, but Salamander (Life Force) was kind of a spin-off feauring the same hero (ship) and arsenal. Although the way in which the arsenal is powered up is different. Salamander is largely considered the superior game in the series, an opinion I happen to agree with.
If you liked Life Force, get a copy of Salamander and bask in the 16-bit-graphic goodness.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 11, 2007, 05:12:02 AM
That's kickass! Much better than the NES Graidus, though not better than Gradius III or R-Type 3...
Speaking of R-Type, does anyone know where I can get the Duo CD soundtrack for R-Type?
I found three MP3s of it, it's a great soundtrack.
I agree, my friend! Though most people on this forum will disagree with you. I believe it superior to cart music in almost every way, except the first level song. They should have stayed faithful to the original tune on that one.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on March 11, 2007, 11:58:11 AM
Exactly, while the first level music is nice, it's 90's house, not R-Type.
They need to remake the original song, with real guitars, real analog synths, those old 80's Simmons power drums and a PIPE ORGAN. That would pwn.
But the Level 1 song DID show off the AVS I'm submitting to Winamp quite adequately:
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: nat on March 11, 2007, 01:35:51 PM
Cool vid, man. The fact that you used R-Type music increased it's cool factor by 356%.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on March 11, 2007, 01:43:35 PM
Thank you! I should make a REAL R-Type one, with the R-Type ship flying around in the visualizer...I belive I can do that with the Picture command in AVS... that would be sweet! :)
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Vanquish on March 20, 2007, 01:24:55 AM
I just have to say this: Gradius isn't for noobs ;) :dance: :-({|= [-X
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Oli_lar on March 20, 2007, 01:55:15 AM
I like Gradius, its a classic. The difficulty is as it should be for a shooter. I prefer Darius though....
Now Parodious, thats a good game!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on March 20, 2007, 10:50:44 AM
Parodius IS a great game! My fave out of the series is Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius on the Super Famicom.
We're getting a pseudo sequel to Sexy Parodius - Otomedius. Supposedly going to be using their WinXP hardware, but it will be 2D. It's also gonna have a touch screen! ^.^ http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3157303
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Necromancer on March 21, 2007, 03:03:08 AM
Question: Why a touch screen? Answer: "For the perverted out there you can even touch your character's naughty bits to get a "cute" reaction from them (uh, not that we tried or anything)."
Not as interesting - It's also useful for a special attack. :dance:
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Oli_lar on March 21, 2007, 08:54:15 AM
Question: Why a touch screen? Answer: "For the perverted out there you can even touch your character's naughty bits to get a "cute" reaction from them (uh, not that we tried or anything)."
Not as interesting - It's also useful for a special attack. :dance:
:shock: and the game's title translates as little-girl-dius !!
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on March 21, 2007, 04:18:32 PM
Actually "otome" is "young woman" as in legal age teenager.
Of course their legal age is NOT the same as ours... 0_0
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Tatsujin on March 22, 2007, 04:30:51 AM
how about "virgin". in fact, otome has many meanings, but their all concentrated around young "non married" girls etc.
Title: Re: Gradius
Post by: Kitsunexus on March 22, 2007, 11:10:55 AM
I wouldn't really know lol, I'm not a Japanese guru...