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NEC PC-FX => PC-FX Discussion => Topic started by: nat on June 02, 2007, 09:30:55 PM

Title: PC-FX controllers
Post by: nat on June 02, 2007, 09:30:55 PM
First off, were there ever any third-party controller solutions made for the PC-FX? Specifically, joysticks?

If not, are there any converters that allow you to use joysticks or control pads from other systems on the PC-FX?

Further, does anyone know the pinout schematic for the PC-FX controller port? If the answer to the first two questions is "no" then I am interested in designing a converter myself.

Also, it looks to me like the Duo-RX 6-button pad and the PC-FX pad are in fact the same thing (this is going from pictures I've seen of the Duo-RX pad). Obviously the cables are different, but does anyone know if this is the only difference? Are the internals the same? If so, then this means TurboGrafx/PCE controllers are compatible with the PC-FX.

Finally, if no one here can answer any of these questions at all, does someone have a Duo-RX pad they want to sell me so I can research it myself?
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Keranu on June 02, 2007, 09:48:42 PM
I don't know of any third-party controllers or joysticks for the PC-FX. I highly doubt there are any, but I hope someone proves me wrong on this as it would be interesting to see other controllers for the system.

Again, I don't know if there are any controller converters for the PC-FX, but I highly doubt it even more.

There are some small exterior differences between the RX (and the other name for it) pad and the PC-FX pad. The biggest difference is that the RX pad has a Turbo switch for each action button, while the PC-FX pad only has two - one for each row of action buttons. The Select and RUN buttons on the RX pad are moved a bit to the left so it can fit the  6 - 2 button switch on the right, while the PC-FX Select and RUN buttons are centered and have no 6 - 2 switch. The RX pad has the HE logo ontop, the PC-FX version has the PC-FX logo on top. The RX pad has a purple color tone for the buttons while the PC-FX pad has a grey button tone. The RX pad has a black cord, the PC-FX a grey cord (like the buttons). The PC-FX pad case has a slightly lighter tone than the RX pad. The PC-FX pad as a significantly longer cord, I'd say around two feet longer. Lastly on the back of both controllers in the center, there is a little copyright message and on the bottom left hand of each message, the RX version says "PCE-TP1(I?)" as well as having a little logo that says "VCI" on the right side of the message, while the PC-FX version says "FX-PAD" and doesn't have the VCI logo.

If I am missing an exterior differences, please post them because IT'S VERY IMPORTANT!

I can try opening up my controllers to check for internal differences for you, nat.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Tatsujin on June 02, 2007, 09:55:01 PM
since the PCFX gameport has less pins that buttons on the pad, i guess the transmission between FX and pad is multiplexed, which makes it really hard to make a different controller work on it, without using a original controller pcb as an interface.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Oli_lar on June 02, 2007, 10:20:57 PM
I can't imagine there would be any third party controllers, I'm not sure there would have been need for a joystick.

Obviously this doesn't mean it wouldn't be cool if you made one!
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: nat on June 03, 2007, 06:21:25 AM
I can't imagine there would be any third party controllers, I'm not sure there would have been need for a joystick.

Well, I can think of a couple games where I've wanted a joystick on the PC-FX. Which is what prompted me to inquire about this.

I don't know of any third-party controllers or joysticks for the PC-FX. I highly doubt there are any, but I hope someone proves me wrong on this as it would be interesting to see other controllers for the system.

Again, I don't know if there are any controller converters for the PC-FX, but I highly doubt it even more.

There are some small exterior differences between the RX (and the other name for it) pad and the PC-FX pad. The biggest difference is that the RX pad has a Turbo switch for each action button, while the PC-FX pad only has two - one for each row of action buttons. The Select and RUN buttons on the RX pad are moved a bit to the left so it can fit the  6 - 2 button switch on the right, while the PC-FX Select and RUN buttons are centered and have no 6 - 2 switch. The RX pad has the HE logo ontop, the PC-FX version has the PC-FX logo on top. The RX pad has a purple color tone for the buttons while the PC-FX pad has a grey button tone. The RX pad has a black cord, the PC-FX a grey cord (like the buttons). The PC-FX pad case has a slightly lighter tone than the RX pad. The PC-FX pad as a significantly longer cord, I'd say around two feet longer. Lastly on the back of both controllers in the center, there is a little copyright message and on the bottom left hand of each message, the RX version says "PCE-TP1(I?)" as well as having a little logo that says "VCI" on the right side of the message, while the PC-FX version says "FX-PAD" and doesn't have the VCI logo.

If I am missing an exterior differences, please post them because IT'S VERY IMPORTANT!

I can try opening up my controllers to check for internal differences for you, nat.

Thanks for the detailed look, Keranu. I was thinking more along the lines of electrical differences rather than cosmetic...

It looks like I'm going to have to track down a Duo-RX pad, buy it, and then dissect it to find out more.

So it sounds like there is no kind of documentation out there on how the PC-FX controller port works, electrically?
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Keranu on June 03, 2007, 03:49:57 PM
Thanks for the detailed look, Keranu. I was thinking more along the lines of electrical differences rather than cosmetic...
I know, I just wanted to be a nerdy and list all of the useless differences :D .
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Black Tiger on June 04, 2007, 01:16:45 AM
If you're desperate for a different controller, I'd open up the PC-FX pad and see if it has the same connection as any PCE pads and if so, swap the cords.

I don't think its too far fetched to be possible, since the PC-FX pad is so similar to the Duo RX pad.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: nat on June 04, 2007, 04:12:29 AM
If you're desperate for a different controller, I'd open up the PC-FX pad and see if it has the same connection as any PCE pads and if so, swap the cords.

I don't think its too far fetched to be possible, since the PC-FX pad is so similar to the Duo RX pad.

I'm not desperate, but I thought it would be a cool project.

And yes, that's the next step in what I intend to do (as in taking apart the FX pad). I also want to get a hold of a Duo-RX pad and do the same.

Ultimately, my goal is to be able to use a joystick of some sort on the PC-FX. If Turbo and FX pads are swappable, then I have a good shot at creating a converter.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: guyjin on June 05, 2007, 12:55:33 PM
A quick search of gamesx.com, the usual definitive source of this kind of info, has nada.  #-o
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: nat on June 11, 2007, 06:01:27 PM
UPDATE: I tried to take apart a PC-FX controller last night. I discovered they use some really funky screws that I'm not sure I have a bit for. It's not the gamebit that the TG-16 uses, it's something that looks more like a Phillips.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: MissaFX on November 02, 2007, 10:36:23 AM
UPDATE: I tried to take apart a PC-FX controller last night. I discovered they use some really funky screws that I'm not sure I have a bit for. It's not the gamebit that the TG-16 uses, it's something that looks more like a Phillips.

Nat, did this project of yours ever go anywhere?  I keep trying to figure out a way short of scrapping a broken FX and a used up controller's end to make an extender in my head everytime I want one for it.  The other thought I had was I have seen splicing kits for networking wire which are supposed to be good against outside signals, but they are pretty freaking expensive, like 40 dollars :shock:
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: nat on November 02, 2007, 10:51:14 AM
UPDATE: I tried to take apart a PC-FX controller last night. I discovered they use some really funky screws that I'm not sure I have a bit for. It's not the gamebit that the TG-16 uses, it's something that looks more like a Phillips.

Nat, did this project of yours ever go anywhere?  I keep trying to figure out a way short of scrapping a broken FX and a used up controller's end to make an extender in my head everytime I want one for it.  The other thought I had was I have seen splicing kits for networking wire which are supposed to be good against outside signals, but they are pretty freaking expensive, like 40 dollars :shock:

If all you want to do is extend the cord, you could always just do a basic splice job. I can't imagine you'd need any kind of expensive kit for that. Worst case scenario, some scissors and electrical tape would surely do the trick. I can't think of any kind of outside signal that would interfere with your controller communicating with the console. Of course, you'd have to have a second FX pad to butcher to get the cable from.

And no, I haven't yet completed my project. I have been unable to find any information on, or locate, a proper bit to open the FX pad. I'd still love to do it. Maybe I'll dive back into that this weekend, now you've motivated me.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Necromancer on November 02, 2007, 11:03:33 AM
Do you have a pic of the screw heads, nat?  My guess is that they're either a tri-wing screw or a phillips pin-head screw, both of which are pretty easy to obtain bits for.
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: Mednafen on November 03, 2007, 09:45:00 PM
There's one 44-pin chip in the gamepad.

My PC-FX gamepad:

NEC Japan
65612   107
9440EX007

My FXGA gamepad:

NEC Japan
65612   107
9515EX011

A very quickie pinout, it may have mistakes, I just made it. :b
The question-mark pins are COMPLETE GUESSES.  Hopefully, the protocol is simple, just sending 32-bits of data each strobe/reset/request/whatever, but I don't know.

Code: [Select]
(Looking at the joystick port front-on on a PC-FX)

A B C D
 E F G


A = Reset?/Strobe?
B = Input/Output select?
C = Data?
D = +5VDC
E = GND
F = Clock?
G = GND



Inside the FX gamepad, from left to right, top of the circuit board, the soldered pins:


(GND), F, (GND), A, B, C, D(+5VDC)
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: guyjin on November 06, 2007, 09:48:12 AM
:shock: awesome!   :pray:
Title: Re: PC-FX controllers
Post by: ulao on June 23, 2009, 07:52:46 AM
Hi all I want to use this topic as it shows credit to Mednafen , although he clearly stated its a guess.. his guess was right( with the exception of b and c being switched ). The main reason I'm commenting is for the lack of info about the pc-fx on the net. This post has the most and I'm going to make it complete.

I have made a usb adapter and a plastic fitting for the pc-fx pad. Although I dont hang out here much you can try to contact me. I also can be found herehttp://spawnlinux.dyndns.org/Bliss-Box/. If you find this info useful please use a link back to my site. Ok that being said here is what I know.

pinout
facing the game pad plug, not the console.
1 2 3 4
0 0 0 0
0 0 0
5 6 7

1 +5
2 data
3 set low,  data direction
4 latch
5 Gnd
6 clock
7 Gnd

the PC-Fx has an ID But I only worked with the pad.
examples:
Mouse = 0xD
Multitap = 0xE
Pad = 0xF

The pad uses the clock latch paradigm , so you wont be able to interface with it, without a micro controller of sorts. I'm not sure what the original clock speed is but with my 12 mhz avr, I set it to 6us in my loop and it worked fine.

Begin cycle..

Raise the latch

[loop this] 32 times
lower the clock, wait 6 us
read a bit
higher the clock, wait 6 us

The first 16 are as follows I, II, III, IV, V, VI, select, run, up, right, down, left. and a few extra bits I didnt need to use..

the second 16 are like so
17
18 bottom switch
19 top switch
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29 1 //0xf the ID
30 1//
31 1// not sure what these are for.
32 1//
end loop


Lower the latch

END