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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Monster Bonce on June 08, 2007, 03:59:38 AM
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I was just watching an old commercial and saw that the TD shipped with five games. Does anyone else think this was too many and that it would have contributed to stunting software sales?
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Far too many. Had they included less games, the system would've been a lot cheaper as well. The whole "buy X and get X free games" is just a nasty scheme.
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I wonder if there is a "Did NEC/TTI do ANYTHING right with the Turbo" thread.
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:-k
Hold on.....
:shock:
[-(
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Something I read gave me the impression the initial pricetag was going to be the same either way and the extra games and coupons were included to help offset the price. Maybe this was PR nonsense, I wish I could remember where I read it.
Anyway, I don't think a couple extra pack-in games took away any significant software sales.
I also don't think there were too many pack-ins. The 4-in-1 disc and Ys are awesome and would have instantly made the Duo my favorite console if I was a new gamer in 93. I wish other systems would have included more than one stupid game.
Did the Japanese Duos include any games?
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Correction: it shipped with six games (don't forget Bomberman). I don't think that the pack in games hurt game sales too much as they were already a year or two old (excepting GoT). I agree with vestcoat that the Duo wasn't exactly cheap, so the inclusion of a few extra games made it a better value without dramatically increasing the cost to TTI.
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Correction: it shipped with six games (don't forget Bomberman).
Seven games, Ys Book 1 and 2!
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I always saw the inclusion of so many games as a last-ditch effort by TTI to try and build more support and loyalty to the failing TurboGrafx camp.
In fact, I clearly remember thinking at the time "Wow, they're really desperate now. This is the beginning of the end."
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When the duo came out, very few stores in my area sold TG-16 games and those that did kept little stock.
The pack-in games, in my case, helped stave off the delay it took for the new releases and additional stock.
I also think that some of the advertisements used the retail value of the pack-in games to help offset the initial "high-cost" of the DUO. I figure that the pack-in HuCard was probably taken from overstock. Out of the 3 duo's I bought over the years, I think I got one Ninja Spirit, one Splatterhouse and a Dungeon Explorer 1.
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Turbo Duo had the best pack-in of all time, hands down. Technically it was only three games though.
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Turbo Duo had the best pack-in of all time, hands down. Technically it was only three games though.
What do you mean? Even if you didn't get a turbochip, Got, Bonk1+2 and Ys equal four..
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And Bomberman.
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Turbo Duo had the best pack-in of all time, hands down. Technically it was only three games though.
What do you mean? Even if you didn't get a turbochip, Got, Bonk1+2 and Ys equal four..
I meant you only got three hard copy games, just to clear up confusion when people thought too many games were included which was the reason for the high price.
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The Duo was DOA regardless. The CD technology was pushing it price-wise. Personally I wouldn't have bought the Duo if the pack-ins hadn't been there. I had played the Bonk games on a friend's system and loved them, so they were a big incentive for me. I already liked Ninja Spirit so that was cool, too. Gate of Thunder blew my effing mind. I didn't learn about Bomberman till months after I got the system.
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I meant you only got three hard copy games, just to clear up confusion when people thought too many games were included which was the reason for the high price.
No, you mean that you received three pieces of media. There's still six separate games (I refuse to count Ys separately - some may disagree, but they're wrong).
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At least you GOT pack-in games, a buisness move that is SORELY needed today.
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I disagree. Maybe if Wii sports wasn't included, I'd consider getting a Wii. Nah, just kidding. But I'd maybe think about possibly considering it. Probably not though. Nonetheless, it would be slightly more appealing without Wii sports. And cheaper.
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It's not the inclusion of the game, it's the inclusion of Wii Sports. If they included Twilight Princess with the Wii we'd have another shortage on our hands. :wink:
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Screw Twilight Princess, Wii Sports worked great as a pack-in game. What pack-in game did Japan have? Wii Play?
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I do find it funny how the Wii has twice the ram and mhz of a gamecube, but runs with the same type of format so to speak. Yet, the graphics on some games like Zelda Twilight Princess that is also on gamecube is only 20% better looking on the Wii. I did kinda like the Wii Sports but they better make it more responsive if they ever make a really good baseball or boxing game. Fun for a pack in game that they really don't charge you for if you really think about it.
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Japan did not get a pack-in game. Lucky bastards.
By the way, SNK... I dunno where you heard that, but Twilight Princess looks identical on Wii and Gamecube. Identical. The Wii features the exact same architecture as the Gamecube. It IS a Gamecube, but with a slightly overclocked CPU and GPU.
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I think that maybe it did ship with too many games...but maybe not. The fact that it came with so many games made the system more appealing. I might not have bought one if I had to drop $300, plus another $50 for just one game. I think a lot of people bought very few titles after that though because those five were so great.
All those games certainly didn't raise the price by any means. The system was, at the time, selling for much more in Japan, and included no games. They had to be skimming the edge of profitability at $300.
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Well, at the time of the Duo's release, TTI was already way behind in console wars, so they had to do something to try to get market share back from Sega & Nintendo. I think most people at that point in time didn't give a rat's ass about the Duo and was supporting either the SNES and/or the Genny, especially considering the Sega CD has recently come out (and this includes me at the time :oops: - oh how I realized the error of my ways years down the line).
It was a valiant effort, but as I said in another thread, once you fall behind in the video game market, it's pretty damn tough to come back.
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Yeah, that's really the way I feel, too. It was definitely a last-ditch effort.
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Yeah, that's really the way I feel, too. It was definitely a last-ditch effort.
Last ditch effort or not, it worked on me... I bought my Duo and then had to sell my TG16/TurboCD combo to help pay for it, but I'd seen a demo of Gate of Thunder in the CompuCenter where I bought it, and I just had to have it...
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i thought it was good deal and it showed off the power of the duo, as well as allowing an already decent build up of games. i think in 92 93 or 94 ys was still a decent game that didnt seem dated.
pack ins are desperately needed again today!
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I wonder if there is a "Did NEC/TTI do ANYTHING right with the Turbo" thread.
I know something they did right: they made some great consoles and games. :P
Some interesting reactions to the thread. I can sort of see both points of view now.
I agree, pack-ins are needed. I wouldn't have bought the Wii if it didn't come with a game. On the other hand, I was dubious about Wii Sports—thankfully it turned out to be great.
I suspect pack-ins stopped with the PlayStation with Sony marketing it as all things to all people? In this situation you wouldn't want a "kiddie game" if you were 25 and your parents wouldn't want you playing GTA if you were 10. Am I right? I didn't pay much attention to the PS when it came out (too busy doing other things) and have no idea so this is just a guess.
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My NES didn't come with a pack-in game. My SNES didn't come with a pack-in game. My Mega Drive didn't come with a pack-in game. The PS was certainly not the first console to be sold in this fantastic way. Down with pack-ins.
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My NES didn't come with a pack-in game. My SNES didn't come with a pack-in game. My Mega Drive didn't come with a pack-in game. The PS was certainly not the first console to be sold in this fantastic way. Down with pack-ins.
Really? Wow. My SNES came with Super Mario World and my friend's Super Famicom came with it too. The Mega Drive here came with Altered Beast, if I recall correctly. The SMS had two games built in, an Alex Kidd game and some kind of dreadful maze game.
Maybe it depends on the territory or the time of buying.
Why don't you like pack-ins? Do you think they're usually inferior games or is it because you want something that exactly matches your tastes?
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Systems used to release many different versions of themselves. Such as Sega Genesis, with model 1 system, had a Altered Beast system, and a "Core" system without a game. Later there was a system that included Sonic 1 as a pack-in
Later, they did similar with the Model 2. There was a Core (No game), Sonic 2, Streets of Rage 2, probably some sports bundle, etc.
Sega CD model 1 I think had a Core System, and a Sewer Shark System. Later, the Sega CD model 2 had a Sewer Shark, Tomcat Alley, and some football game packages.
I don;t keep up with games as I used to, however all these pack-ins have seemed to have slowed down quite a bit. However, I have seen, 'bundles" advertised. In the past I've seen a gamecube in some blister packing, that included at least a game and a 2nd controller).
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Why don't you like pack-ins? Do you think they're usually inferior games or is it because you want something that exactly matches your tastes?
That's right. I don't like pack-ins because they are usually games that I'm (and probably many many others, I've heard tons of complaints about Wii Sports, for example) not interested in, and more importantly: without pack-ins, the system itself will be cheaper. Again, they often say "buy X and get X free game", but we all know this isn't true at all. You do pay for the game, and more often than not - you pay for a game that you don't want.
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Whether you hate on sports or don't have dexterity beyond your fingertips, the Wii Sports game does an excellent job showcasing the system's controller interface.
For me, regardless of the pack-in, I always set my mind to beating (if applicable) the title included with the system. If I don't like it, there's zero replay value.
I guess that's why people can't give away Keith Courage now...
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I meant you only got three hard copy games, just to clear up confusion when people thought too many games were included which was the reason for the high price.
No, you mean that you received three pieces of media. There's still six separate games (I refuse to count Ys separately - some may disagree, but they're wrong).
Ys was released as a single game on like 6 platforms before the PC Engine version bundled I & II together and both games continued to receive seperate ports for another decade or so until Ys I & II Complete for PC. Unless you count the PS2 port of Ys I & II Complete, Ys I & II have only ever appeared together twice in 20 years on a dozen formats.
Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as seperate games is wrong. :wink:
Whether you hate on sports or don't have dexterity beyond your fingertips, the Wii Sports game does an excellent job showcasing the system's controller interface.
This is the same reason why the Turbo Duo pack-ins were so important. It showcased what you could expect from the 3 game formats/both media it plays. Both Ys & GoT were perfect examples of the benefit of CD technology and all the HuCard games were examples that you could still expect great games in card form.
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The SMS had two games built in, an Alex Kidd game and some kind of dreadful maze game.
Didn't those pack-ins come with the SMS-2? The original model of SMS's came with that Safari Hunt, Hang On and the hidden maze game. (I don't even remember playing that maze game to be honest. :P) I think the first SMS systems had the Safari Hunt and Hang On games in a cart, and then they eventually got built in.
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I wonder if there is a "Did NEC/TTI do ANYTHING right with the Turbo" thread.
I know something they did right: they made some great consoles and games. :P
Well, I think what we are talking about here is If NEC USA, or TTI did anything right for the US market. I don't think that they made great consoles and games because they didn't make any consoles or games. All that stuff came from Japan except maybe for Darkwing Duck, or Talespin, or some other unplayable shit.
Given that the US market was heavily action oriented back then, and the PC Engine was so RPG and sim oriented at that time (the TTI years), I think the honest truth is that the PC Engine didn't provide what Americans wanted (cheaper hardware, and games that cater to illiterate sports freaks) and Americans didn't want what the PC Engine provided (text heavy lolicon otaku stuff that is expensive to translate).
My friends and I all loved the Duo, but we also loved Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, etc which were niche titles in the US back then. Now they sell just as well in the US as they do in Japan, if not better. Things were different back then.
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youre right about the sports freaks, i think sports games are fine, but i could never buy nfl, nhl, nba, mlb year after year forever! of corse the PSX did sort of finally offer an 'all things to all people' mentality. it was almost like a PC with its variety and good to garbage ratio. i am sure that if the 16 bit generation were today, or the anime/otaku movement caught on 10 years before it did *** then it would have had a better chance. but if you ask me otaku fandom is just as loud and annoying and mindless as sports andom. if you look at the timeline of gams systems were loaded with elaborate stuff early on and as time went on the got stripped away . atari gave you sticks paddles and a game. intellivision and coleco gave you add ons and games, nintendo gave the robot the gun or the. power pad. sega and nec (burn me if you want) started the whole one controller thing, which no everyone does, and i personally hate. now you only get a demo disc if that, save for the wii. but oncepeople realized you could save money by limiting thee things, knowing people will buy them anyways there went the fun. but truly only super mario bros, and maybe sonic were the only pack ins that i would consider hot must have games that moved a system. the rest were just there to give you somehing to play.
also note that no console that did not have the annual sports gave has never reached mainstream popularity in america. i think that says it all about the kind of games people want here. or at least tha kind of game that will motivate alot of people to go buy something just to play the same thing over and over.
***i do believe that anime was viable at least 20-25 years ago a was evident with such great shows as battle of the planets and robotech and etc, but it did not reach mainstream (read: annoying fans who only like it because its suddenly the in-trend thing to like) till after the TG was long gone, i think.
of course in my young days anime fandom was about appreciating quality, realisistic, dramatic animation that you couldnt find in the US. not about being a bunch of whiny losers who cant get any because they spend their whole life walled up in their rooms with a manga in one hand and a bag of corn chips in the other while dreaming of someday finding some perfect cat like girl french maid butler, wishing they were japanese so someone would finally understand them.
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robotech
That show is the most boring anime on Earth, well I'm sure there's a more boring anime but I have yet to see it.
60's anime is shit. Shit like Kimba, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, the world needs to forget that shit. Horrible, horrible shit.
80's anime is a mixed bag. For every piece of shit like Robotech you have an Akira.
For my money, anime peaked in the 90's with stuff like Slayers Perfect, My Neighbor Totoro, Battle Angel Alita, Tenchi Universe, Outlaw Star, Azumanga Daioh, Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Yu Yu Hakusho and a couple of others. The only anime that even looks WORTHY of seeing today is Paprika, which I will torrent later.
Any kids anime is generally shit, with a couple of exceptions in My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. The only good thing about Pokémon is some of the monsters like Mewtwo and Pikachu.The storyline sucked. Digimon was even worse, with lamer monsters. The only one I even liked was Gomamon.
It should be a felony for Dragonball Z and Naruto to exist. This felony should carry the death penalty. The original Dragonball is OK however...
I'm not a fan of the overhyped anime shit. This is like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Excel Saga, Ninja Scroll, X, etc... You're supposedly not with it if you don't like these, if I have to like these to be "with it" then by God I don't want to be with it! Boring boring shit fests.
So yeah, that's what I think of anime.
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I don't care about anime in general, but Robotech rules.
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If you don't like Cowboy Bebop, then you shouldn't be watching anime in the first place since you obviously have no taste. That's like saying Casablanca or The Godfather are shit movies.
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Ys was released as a single game on like 6 platforms before the PC Engine version bundled I & II together and both games continued to receive seperate ports for another decade or so until Ys I & II Complete for PC. Unless you count the PS2 port of Ys I & II Complete, Ys I & II have only ever appeared together twice in 20 years on a dozen formats.
Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as seperate games is wrong. :wink:
Really? Did those earlier versions come on a single cartridge/disc and play from beginning to end with no break in the action other than a cut scene? My point is that if no other versions of the game existed and Ys I & II were renamed to just Ys, nobody would play it and think 'Hey, what the f*ck's going on here. This is two completely separate games glued together.' I'll partially concede the point and revise my previous statement to 'I refuse to count Ys on TG-CD separately - some may disagree, but they're wrong'. :P
PS - learn to spell separate. :twisted:
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I've always wondered why the DUO didn't get more success in the US with such a pack. 6 games! Japanese NEC consoles didn't include games at all. Sodipeng, the company that imported pc engine consoles in France, did sell games with the machines. We also had a pack that included a Coregrafx, a multitap, 2 pads and one game : this one was quite popular at the time and I think much contributed to the "success" of NEC consoles in France.
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robotech
That show is the most boring anime on Earth, well I'm sure there's a more boring anime but I have yet to see it.
60's anime is shit. Shit like Kimba, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, the world needs to forget that shit. Horrible, horrible shit.
80's anime is a mixed bag. For every piece of shit like Robotech you have an Akira.
For my money, anime peaked in the 90's with stuff like Slayers Perfect, My Neighbor Totoro, Battle Angel Alita, Tenchi Universe, Outlaw Star, Azumanga Daioh, Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Yu Yu Hakusho and a couple of others. The only anime that even looks WORTHY of seeing today is Paprika, which I will torrent later.
Any kids anime is generally shit, with a couple of exceptions in My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. The only good thing about Pokémon is some of the monsters like Mewtwo and Pikachu.The storyline sucked. Digimon was even worse, with lamer monsters. The only one I even liked was Gomamon.
It should be a felony for Dragonball Z and Naruto to exist. This felony should carry the death penalty. The original Dragonball is OK however...
I'm not a fan of the overhyped anime shit. This is like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Excel Saga, Ninja Scroll, X, etc... You're supposedly not with it if you don't like these, if I have to like these to be "with it" then by God I don't want to be with it! Boring boring shit fests.
So yeah, that's what I think of anime.
Can you say generation gap what you think of the anime from the 60s,70s,80s is crap... but to people who grew up on 'it have fond memorise for it.
I don't think those period for anime were that bad i enjoy shows such as, Robotech and all.
I got np with what came out of the 90's in general for anime.
Afther that anime went down hill if you ask me... it's all about eye candy now and doing rehash's these days.
Still every generation has it's share of crappy shows no matter what "time period it comes from past or persent.
Just like with video games as well.
Btw i see you mention Gundam Wing i couldn't stand that show please,i found the characters in it to be annoying. Plus you didn't know what side they were on... or what there motive's were.
I rather watch a old school gundam serise suchs as, Mobile Suit Gundam and Gundam 0083 Stardust Memory befor i watch Gundam Wing again.
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robotech
That show is the most boring anime on Earth, well I'm sure there's a more boring anime but I have yet to see it.
60's anime is shit. Shit like Kimba, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, the world needs to forget that shit. Horrible, horrible shit.
80's anime is a mixed bag. For every piece of shit like Robotech you have an Akira.
For my money, anime peaked in the 90's with stuff like Slayers Perfect, My Neighbor Totoro, Battle Angel Alita, Tenchi Universe, Outlaw Star, Azumanga Daioh, Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Yu Yu Hakusho and a couple of others. The only anime that even looks WORTHY of seeing today is Paprika, which I will torrent later.
Any kids anime is generally shit, with a couple of exceptions in My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. The only good thing about Pokémon is some of the monsters like Mewtwo and Pikachu.The storyline sucked. Digimon was even worse, with lamer monsters. The only one I even liked was Gomamon.
It should be a felony for Dragonball Z and Naruto to exist. This felony should carry the death penalty. The original Dragonball is OK however...
I'm not a fan of the overhyped anime shit. This is like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Excel Saga, Ninja Scroll, X, etc... You're supposedly not with it if you don't like these, if I have to like these to be "with it" then by God I don't want to be with it! Boring boring shit fests.
So yeah, that's what I think of anime.
Ehh but what do you know, you're just a kid still. Either way, thank god there are people who don't share your opinion.
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i was hoping my comments would not spark a discussion about what series is better than what. but rather about if the mainstream popularity of anime would have helped the TG 16, if it would have happened just a little earlier. or would have NWC not ben able to do 1+1 and not try to cash in like they didnt do anyways,
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Didn't those pack-ins come with the SMS-2? The original model of SMS's came with that Safari Hunt, Hang On and the hidden maze game. (I don't even remember playing that maze game to be honest. :P) I think the first SMS systems had the Safari Hunt and Hang On games in a cart, and then they eventually got built in.
You're right. I got confused. That maze game was woeful.
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Funny thing is, there was a small Anime buzz in parts of Europe at the time. Akira got a cinematic release and two VHS releases (one double video in Japanese with subtitles and one awful dubbed version with a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles voice actor). The British SNES magazine Super Play was very into RPGs and general Japanese stuff. And France, of course, has never treated comic books and animations as the pond scum of entertainment/arts. But when the SNES really took off a lot of that stuff died away. If I'm honest, the main reason I keep coming back to the PCE is to play Japanese stuff that didn't get a fair hearing in Europe, particularly RPGs.
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Just for the record it should be noted that shitty Robotech is NOT actually anime. Some crappy company took 3 totally unrelated shows: Macross, Mospedia, and Southern Cross and combined them. The story itself was completely rewritten by the localization company, Robotech was basically just a cheap way to save money by "borrowing" animation.
As for anime itself, it has certainly gone downhill, most likely because most anime is now just pumped out of a computer. Like modern Disney movies, there is no real work or effort put into the final product any more. Also Gundam Wing does quite suck, it is easily the worst Gundam show out there not counting that new Seed bullshit.
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Robotech did not come about as a "cheap way to save money." Macross was the one that Macek wanted to bring over, but due to episode-count standards at the time, he couldn't convert it by its lonesome; so he combined it with two other series that Harmony Gold had acquired the rights to. (Look around the web for more info on this.) RT's staff writers like Greg Finley did a fantastic job with it, especially considering the circumstances, and if you hear those guys reflecting on the show today, it's clear it meant more than "money making" to them.
And for the record, I think the "purists" are insane. I much prefer Robotech's Macross Saga to SDF: Macross, and I rank Masters about on par with SDC: Southern Cross. Mospeada does crush New Gen, however.
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Robotech did not come about as a "cheap way to save money." Macross was the one that Macek wanted to bring over, but due to episode-count standards at the time, he couldn't convert it by its lonesome; so he combined it with two other series that Harmony Gold had acquired the rights to. (Look around the web for more info on this.) RT's staff writers like Greg Finley did a fantastic job with it, especially considering the circumstances, and if you hear those guys reflecting on the show today, it's clear it meant more than "money making" to them.
And for the record, I think the "purists" are insane. I much prefer Robotech's Macross Saga to SDF: Macross, and I rank Masters about on par with SDC: Southern Cross. Mospeada does crush New Gen, however.
Yup. And the sound track to Robotech is much better than Macross. I haven't heard the original sound track to SDC: Southern Cross or Mospeada.
Like modern Disney movies, there is no real work or effort put into the final product any more.
What!? Are you actually serious or just talking out your ass? It's one thing not like or be interested in these (newer) Disney movies, but to say that "no real work or effort put into the final product" is just ignorant.
Anyway, back then I loved the fact there were anime art and cinemas in TG/DUO games. American art and design was (usually) pretty horrid. I didn't care for the Euro look/design either, but I admit it was usually better than the American style.
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I couldn't say it's true of Europe as a whole but I've always thought that some French games were quite similar to Japanese. I wonder if this is related to the positive French attitude to « bandes dessinée » (comics) and animation?
And then, more recently, there's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_nouvelle_manga
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And the sound track to Robotech is much better than Macross.
Yeah, I totally agree. It's funny; I'd played Macross 2036 before actually watching SDF: Macross, and based on the tunes in that game, I thought that the show's soundtrack would rival Robotech's. Then when I finally got around to watching it, I discovered that some of the game's best tunes (like the stage 2 track) aren't even in the show.
I haven't heard the original sound track to SDC: Southern Cross or Mospeada.
Most people don't like Southern Cross' soundtrack, but most people don't like anything about the show to begin with. I'm a Southern Cross/Masters fanatic, and I love the music.
Mospeada also had a great soundtrack with some really good songs. The background music seemed to suit the animation better than RT's music, which seemed more appropriate for the space battles of the Macross and Masters sagas. I like Lancer's songs too, though.
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Who in here likes Galaxy Express. I love that movie.
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Who in here likes Galaxy Express. I love that movie.
It's cool, but the laserdisc game that it powers is even cooler.
And for the record, my favorite Gundam is G Gundam.
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Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as seperate games is wrong. :wink:
Well they are cleary seperate games because they were originally sold that way, but in my head I like to think of them as one game because of how extremely close they are to each other. Do you think Falcom originally intended to sell it as one game but eventually decided not to or something just to make extra cash or for some other reason?
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Who in here likes Galaxy Express. I love that movie.
I like it's just a shame it didn't get release again on dvd in the u.s ](*,)
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Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as seperate games is wrong. :wink:
Well they are cleary seperate games because they were originally sold that way, but in my head I like to think of them as one game because of how extremely close they are to each other. Do you think Falcom originally intended to sell it as one game but eventually decided not to or something just to make extra cash or for some other reason?
No. In fact, Ys 1 was originally just a stand alone game with no sequel intended. That would've worked fine too. Personally, I don't think Ys 1-2 fits that well together (but good enough), as they are pretty different in many ways.
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Who in here likes Galaxy Express. I love that movie.
I like it's just a shame it didn't get release again on dvd in the u.s ](*,)
Ya, I'm glad I've still got my VHS copy...
It's funny, I've never really thought about it and drawn a direct line before, but there's every likelyhood that my Turbo Duo was largely responsible for my interest in Anime as well... I know that the very first Anime tape I ever bought (Bubblegum Crisis ep. 5, which I bought sight unseen for $50!! :shock: ) I chose from a wall of Anime's because I owned the PC Engine game (though I couldn't figure out how to play it very well - too much Japanese) and the blurb on the back of the Animeigo box said something about vampires (or implied it)... After that, I was hooked, and Akira, M66 and Ghost in the Shell, PatLabor, Armitage the Third and many others soon followed...
If you don't like Cowboy Bebop, then you shouldn't be watching anime in the first place since you obviously have no taste. That's like saying Casablanca or The Godfather are shit movies.
ditto...
One of the interesting things that I've enjoyed in my later adulthood is sharing the Anime series that I discovered before my kids were born or when they were very young with them now that they're in their teens... Neither one of them has inherited the "obsessive-compulsive" gene that makes them a "fan" of anything in particular - they have broad interests and are pretty well-rounded, which is the antithesis of Otaku - so it's fascinating to discover which series they really like and which ones they let slide... Cowboy Beebop, Trigun and Bubblegum Crisis 2040 are three of their prefered series to date, but we never finished Neon Genesis Evangelion or The Wanderers (El Hazard) TV series (though they liked the OVAs). I'm curious to see how they take to Fushigi Yugi or Outlaw Star or Saber Marionette J next...
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Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as separate games is wrong. :wink:
Well they are cleary separate games because they were originally sold that way, but in my head I like to think of them as one game because of how extremely close they are to each other. Do you think Falcom originally intended to sell it as one game but eventually decided not to or something just to make extra cash or for some other reason?
No. In fact, Ys 1 was originally just a stand alone game with no sequel intended. That would've worked fine too. Personally, I don't think Ys 1-2 fits that well together (but good enough), as they are pretty different in many ways.
I just thought that it was cool that at the end of Ys SMS it says that:
"A soft light surrounds 'Adol', as if he has been blessed by the goddesses of Ys."
"But some things will never be. Knowing this, 'Adol', the swordsman, sets off on his next adventure..."
And when they made Ys II, they actually turned the light into something literal that flew him into the air to take him to his next adventure, instead of the Littlest Hobo scenario alluded to in Ys I.
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Maybe I'll give Cowboy Bebop another chance, I watched it on VHS a LONG time ago...it's probably better now.
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You should, Cowboy Bebop is one of the most well written pieces of entertainment I've ever come across. The characters are all amazingly real, the dialog is incredible, and it has probably the single best ending out of any anime I've seen (it just fits the series so perfectly). It might help if you watch it in Japanese- the american voice actors are actually pretty good, but Spike and Ed's japanese voice actors fit them way better I thought.
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Ahh my favorites from Cowboy Bebop are "Mushroom Samba", great trippy stuff. Then my other one was "Toys in the Attic", basically a parody to Alien the movie. One of the best anime series of all time. I have been getting into Samurai 7 lately, which I have been enjoying so far at volume 3.
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You should, Cowboy Bebop is one of the most well written pieces of entertainment I've ever come across. The characters are all amazingly real, the dialog is incredible, and it has probably the single best ending out of any anime I've seen (it just fits the series so perfectly). It might help if you watch it in Japanese- the american voice actors are actually pretty good, but Spike and Ed's japanese voice actors fit them way better I thought.
Meh, not a fan of subs. All the things you said are great about CB, that's why I hated back then. Back then my animes were supposed to either be comedy or just plain action, CB was just too serious. It didn't even have giant robots to back up the seriousness like Gundam Wing did.
But now, great dialog and plot is what I'm looking for, so I'll give it a go.
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Seeing as this thread trailed off, I'll add to it.
I've never been much into japanimation. I have enough other hobbies, and movies I like, so it's probabyl a good thing I don't add much mroe to the mess.
I recall Unico pretty clearly from the mid 80's, parents had it on Beta. It's still sitting in a basment somewhere, I'd like to give it another viewing sometime as I recall it being a decent movie. It's been a long time.
I can't recall turning down japanimation/anime/whatever when someone was watching it, as long as it was not "kids stuff" (Dragon Ball, sailor moon, that type of stuff). When I had access to free video store rentals, sometimes I'd take home animation after work. that wasn't very often as the store didn't carry much of it. Sometimes I'd find it a bit dull, such as Ghost in the Shell... I do recall a few surprises with animation tapes, such as Devil Hunter Yohko, ahhaha. That was probably 10 years ago. I recall at the start of the video some girl rubs a guys leg, and it's a close-up of his pants as they become, "fuller". It was not what I was expecting.
All this reminds me of year 2004 or 2005, I was in a mall buying a few gifts for December holidays. A clerk at a store walked up to me and asked if I had been to _______ convention, and if I was _________. I asked her to repeat herself. She explained it was an animation festival, she thought I was someone she met there. It took a moment for her to understand it wasn't me, haha.
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Seeing as this thread trailed off, I'll add to it.
I've never been much into japanimation. I have enough other hobbies, and movies I like, so it's probabyl a good thing I don't add much mroe to the mess.
I recall Unico pretty clearly from the mid 80's, parents had it on Beta. It's still sitting in a basment somewhere, I'd like to give it another viewing sometime as I recall it being a decent movie. It's been a long time.
I can't recall turning down japanimation/anime/whatever when someone was watching it, as long as it was not "kids stuff" (Dragon Ball, sailor moon, that type of stuff). When I had access to free video store rentals, sometimes I'd take home animation after work. that wasn't very often as the store didn't carry much of it. Sometimes I'd find it a bit dull, such as Ghost in the Shell... I do recall a few surprises with animation tapes, such as Devil Hunter Yohko, ahhaha. That was probably 10 years ago. I recall at the start of the video some girl rubs a guys leg, and it's a close-up of his pants as they become, "fuller". It was not what I was expecting.
All this reminds me of year 2004 or 2005, I was in a mall buying a few gifts for December holidays. A clerk at a store walked up to me and asked if I had been to _______ convention, and if I was _________. I asked her to repeat herself. She explained it was an animation festival, she thought I was someone she met there. It took a moment for her to understand it wasn't me, haha.
1. OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT UNICO! "Sing a song, of meow meowmeow meowmeow!"
2. Saying Ghost In The Shell is "dull" is like saying Adolf Hitler was a "bad man". GITS is EXTREMELY f*cking boring. I love the art, I love the remix of the theme, but every time I try to watch it I nearly fall asleep.
3. Sailor Moon pwns. No one should be afraid to admit that.
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I just want to randomly throw in that Cowboy Bebop is one of the greatest shows ever made imo. So many good episodes. There isn't much slow down in the series either maybe 1 or 2 bad episodes but the rest is pure classic.
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One of the episodes I remember that put a bad taste in my mouth was a really boring one about some kid with a possessed harmonica or some shit like that.
Sorry to go off-topic off-topic, but does anybody remember Outlaw Star? It was like, my second favorite, next to Tenchi Universe.
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One of the episodes I remember that put a bad taste in my mouth was a really boring one about some kid with a possessed harmonica or some shit like that.
Sorry to go off-topic off-topic, but does anybody remember Outlaw Star? It was like, my second favorite, next to Tenchi Universe.
Outlaw Star ok i all most wish for a follow up on it.
As for Tenchi Universe decent but it doesn't beat the original Tenchi Muyo.
Ok i think this thread got derailed enough with how much talking about, Anime berings the dork out in every one :wink: :oops:
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As for Tenchi Universe decent but it doesn't beat the original Tenchi Muyo.
If it doesn't beat it, it ties it. The only inferior series is "In Tokyo" and I use the word inferior loosely. I haven't seen GX and I am DYING to.
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As for Tenchi Universe decent but it doesn't beat the original Tenchi Muyo.
If it doesn't beat it, it ties it. The only inferior series is "In Tokyo" and I use the word inferior loosely. I haven't seen GX and I am DYING to.
That i can agree on Tenchi in Tokyo feels tack on and trys to hard with the humor.
Afther, Universe that was enough for me i still feel tokyo is the worst one in the serise.
Still i feel universe falls second to, Muyo while the character's roles are turn around... i just feel it's missing some thing to compare to muyo.
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Another thing is that Cowboy Bebop is a lot better on DVD. They edit things on it when it is played on Adult Swim. Of course, now it doesn't play on CN anymore as far I have seen lately. Same goes for Samurai Champloo as it is edited a little as well, which it is an decent series.
I always liked Rouroni Kenshin Wandering Samurai. Adult Swim also didn't do it much justice as it is a 75+ episodes.It has a long line of villians and a lot of personal things happening to the main characters. It is aimed more for the 13 and up crowd as there isn't any slicing people in half, but it is a fun series with cool characters. I got all the DVDs before they did the damn box sets. Samurai 7 I got up to volume 3 but I bet they have a box set for it by now.
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I always liked Rouroni Kenshin Wandering Samurai. Adult Swim also didn't do it much justice as it is a 75+ episodes.It has a long line of villians and a lot of personal things happening to the main characters. It is aimed more for the 13 and up crowd as there isn't any slicing people in half, but it is a fun series with cool characters. I got all the DVDs before they did the damn box sets. Samurai 7 I got up to volume 3 but I bet they have a box set for it by now.
Screw the series, The movie is AWESOME. Kenshin's a PUSSY in the series.
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Kenshin wasn't a pussy, he just stuck to his guns. That was the first really long series I've ever watched, man that was a great show. The Shi shi oh saga especially was one of the coolest things ever.
Top notch animes with extremely good writing and characters-
Planet ES (incredible series, probably the most well written anime ever)
Cowboy Bebop
Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex
Berserk
Future Boy Conan (gets a little goofy here and there, but overall one of the best series I've seen)
Samurai Champloo
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Samurai Champloo
I hate most hip-hop.
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I like The Flintstones.
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I like Turbo games; let's talk about them.
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I like Turbo games; let's talk about them.
GET OUT OF OUR ANIME THREAD!
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GET OUT OF OUR ANIME THREAD!
GET OUT OF OUR FORUMS
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KEITH COURAGE IS ON MY SIDE, NOT YOURS
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I've never seen this side of Keith before.
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Speaking of Keith Courage, I've read on another game site that they had to MAKE it a pack-in, because nobody wanted it. Is there any truth to this?
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I doubt it, but it's possible.
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How could they know that nobody wanted it if it was packed in with the launch systems? Besides if the game wasn't a pack in and there weren't 5 bajillion copies floating around people wouldn't be so harsh on it. Hell it's way better than JJ & Jeff and they sold that garbage at full price.
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How could they know that nobody wanted it if it was packed in with the launch systems?
Beta testers and focus groups.
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How could they know that nobody wanted it if it was packed in with the launch systems?
Beta testers and focus groups.
If they knew that everybody would hate it, why would they bother to make so many f'n copies? A great pack in game will sell systems (just look at Tetris), so it doesn't make sense that they'd go ahead with a known dog.
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by turbo came with keith and jj & jeff. it was in the $49.99 days. so could have been tti, the store or just my mom throwing it in the box.
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Hell it's way better than JJ & Jeff and they sold that garbage at full price.
I like JJ & Jeff a gazillion times better than KC. To be fair I've never spent quality time with KC. But JJ&J is hilarious with poop everywhere and wacky stuff like the dinosaurs with gigantic necks and tiny bodies.
Wonk-wonk-wonk. Where are your true friends at times like these? Right here! Wonk-wonk-wonk.
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Keith courage was obviously a pack-in because they thought that it would help sell the system. It wasn't a bad game, it was able to show the power of the turbo grafx.
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Wonk-wonk-wonk. Where are your true friends at times like these? Right here! Wonk-wonk-wonk.
Holy crap! You are the only other person besides me to use that quote on these forums :mrgreen: ! It's such a jawesome quote! Wonk! Wonk! Wonk!
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JJ&Jeff also has FANTASTIC music BTW.
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YES!!! As much as the game itself sucks, the music in JJ & Jeff is probably the hippest stuff on the Turbo.
Track 4 in the HES file is downright funky.
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J.J. and Jeff is one of my favorite Turbo games and yes, the music kicks ass! Especially the love boat song - fits the cloud stages perfectly!
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YES!!! As much as the game itself sucks, the music in JJ & Jeff is probably the hippest stuff on the Turbo.
Track 4 in the HES file is downright funky.
I like the music too. But...
Why do so many folks despise JJ & Jeff? It is Wonderboy 1 / Adventure Island (NES) with a few (slight) twists?
Sorry, but as you may already know, it is my duty to defend JJ & Jeff.
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I actually don't want to get into a JJ & Jeff discussion, so let me shift gears and simply say that the "too many pack-ins" theory is incredibly silly. When the Duo was realeased, the only thing TTi could do was to throw in a bunch of games. It makes sense on so many different levels: it justifies the $300 price tag, it generates interest in everyone (existing TG-16 fans as well as new customers), and, for newcomers, it is a wonderful introduction to the TG-16 library. Sorry, but the Duo would not have had a $200 price tag sans pack-ins. Hardware costs are real (and the associated freight / warehousing costs), while the cost of manufacturing / licensing software is cheap, in relative terms. Simply put, TTi had to include pack-ins in order to justify the console price. I don't know what the actual cost of a Duo was for TTi, but I can tell you that there was a higher profit-to-cost ratio for their software.
Now, at the time, I didn't think the Duo was going to do well (even in a niche market), but I certainly thought that TTi made a valiant effort. You can say it was a "last ditch effort", but it wasn't a half-hearted effort, which is the connotation / tone I pick up from nat's comments. IMO, TTi was more like, "Crap, we don't have a chance in a million, but let's go out with a bang." Well, that's what I think they said in preparation for the Duo's launch. After the launch, I don't know what they thought.
I think TTi should be faulted for some of its lame print advertising campaigns, since they had control over that. Otherwise, they were in no position to compete with Nintendo and Sega, who had a bazillion dollars dedicated to marketing.
TTi should be faulted for some of the games they decided to release (when better options were available), but the Duo pack-in was one of the things they did *RIGHT*. They also threw some coupons in with the Duo. Yes, they were desperate -- but they didn't make any mistakes as far as pack-in / coupons are concerned.
I don't think the Duo would have been significantly more successful if anime and RPG went mainstream sooner. The reason is simple: the playing field would still be unlevel. Nintendo and Sega, swimming in cash, would have been in a much better position to support all the anime-flavored / RPG games they desired. TTi could not have competed with their competition's localization efforts, in relative terms. Sure, TTi could have been benefitted from RPG / anime interest, but it would still have been struggling overall.
Finally, considering Wataru's popularity with North American viewers, it wouldn't have helped make Keith Courage a better pack-in game :). For the record, Keith Courage had the potential to be an *awesome* game. Strip away the repetition / monotony and you'd have a kick-ass game. I'm too lazy to find my old posts on the matter, but I speak the Truth.
The only point I have any desire to defend is the one about Keith Courage's potential. :)
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You can say it was a "last ditch effort", but it wasn't a half-hearted effort, which is the connotation / tone I pick up from nat's comments. IMO, TTi was more like, "Crap, we don't have a chance in a million, but let's go out with a bang." Well, that's what I think they said in preparation for the Duo's launch. After the launch, I don't know what they thought.
I guess I sound really depressing and pessimistic over these here digital lines.
I actually agree with you-- I didn't think it was half-hearted at all! They really went above and beyond with the whole Duo package and pack-in offerings.
I just remember noting at the time, back in '92 or whenever, that the Turbo market was really slipping away from them. Fewer and fewer stores were carrying TG16 games, and those that did were cutting back their inventory. When I saw the Duo arriving on the scene, I recall thinking to myself that this was their "last hurrah", a final attempt to garner some kind of attention and hold on to at least a tiny piece of the market. I can't think of a better way for them to have gone out. But it was already too late, TTI had lost the battle, the writing was on the wall. I really wanted a Duo at the time, but the price tag was waaaay too high. I only got a TG16 a couple years prior because it was $99.99. I think the price of the Duo was something that hurt them in the end. They would've sold more had it been cheaper. But as you said, the cost of hardware is what it is, I'm not sure there was anything they could really do about that.
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I completely agree with Steve about how TTi wanted to go out with a bang when releasing the Duo. Lots of people blame Johnny Turbo as part of the Duo's fall, but I disagree with that as by the time Johnny Turbo was out, at least as far as I know, the Duo didn't really have any chance left of surviving out here, so the advertisers just decided to have a lot of fun with poking at their competitors and even theirselves.
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Johnny Turbo didn't have anything to do with it.
I had never even heard of Johnny Turbo until last year, and I was actually an active TG-16 player during the "height" of the system's popularity. If I missed him, I'm sure many others did too.
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johnny turbo was in the back pages of EGM if you didnt read it fo 2 or 3 monhs in 93 then you missed it. but it was no big deal
really the turbo duo was a victim of bad timing. in 93 knowing the 32 bits were on the way and with people already owning a snes genesis (or TG16!) of ou already but 200 or 300 bucks on something last year why dump 300 bucks on somthing then dump another 300 a year or 2 later? and those who did probably bought a sega CD anyways. maybe they could have just re released the CD ROM2 wit the 3.0 card and the games thrown in for $200 it could have sold a few more. but i still remind everyone who neer knew and even thouse who do, that nintendo's poliies were still largely in effect preventing success anywhere else. sega got lucky but signing up 3rd parties not on with nintendo and that was that! maybe the turbo duo should have had 20 pack in games! that would be sweet!!
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You can say it was a "last ditch effort", but it wasn't a half-hearted effort, which is the connotation / tone I pick up from nat's comments. IMO, TTi was more like, "Crap, we don't have a chance in a million, but let's go out with a bang." Well, that's what I think they said in preparation for the Duo's launch. After the launch, I don't know what they thought.
I guess I sound really depressing and pessimistic over these here digital lines.
I actually agree with you-- I didn't think it was half-hearted at all! They really went above and beyond with the whole Duo package and pack-in offerings.
I just remember noting at the time, back in '92 or whenever, that the Turbo market was really slipping away from them. Fewer and fewer stores were carrying TG16 games, and those that did were cutting back their inventory. When I saw the Duo arriving on the scene, I recall thinking to myself that this was their "last hurrah", a final attempt to garner some kind of attention and hold on to at least a tiny piece of the market. I can't think of a better way for them to have gone out. But it was already too late, TTI had lost the battle, the writing was on the wall. I really wanted a Duo at the time, but the price tag was waaaay too high. I only got a TG16 a couple years prior because it was $99.99. I think the price of the Duo was something that hurt them in the end. They would've sold more had it been cheaper. But as you said, the cost of hardware is what it is, I'm not sure there was anything they could really do about that.
Yeah, we totally agree with each other :). I knew the TG-16 was dead early on and that there was no chance for a revival, especially by the time the Duo came out. I remember thinking, "I want a Duo, but who else would want one?[/i]
NES, Gameboy, Genesis, SNES were so friggin' huge and wildly popular during this era... the TG-16 was lurking in their shadows, if at all.
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johnny turbo was in the back pages of EGM if you didnt read it fo 2 or 3 monhs in 93 then you missed it. but it was no big deal
Well there you go. Nobody reads that shit. The only good thing about EGM is Hsu and Chan (the comic in the back), but of course you can get that here (http://www.spookingtons.com/), so it doesn't really matter.
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I think other factors with the Duo or even the TG-CD around early 92 contributed to the lack of success. The fact that the Sega CD came out and had FMV capabilities, which really got people to buy the system atleast before playing it. Not to mention a lot of people already owned Genesis systems to begin with. Also, the hype that Nintendo was going to make a CD add-on for the SNES. This was in Nintendo Power and other magazines when the SNES just came out. They even had pictures of what the CD-Rom drive might look like. I will admit that if the SNES did have a CD-rom add-on, it would have dominated like crazy. God knows what kind of stuff they could have done. It would have problably been up there with the PS1 2D graphics wise. It might have still been 16-bit instead of 32-bit but they could have done a lot to make it close.