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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => Virtual Console TG/PCE Discussion => Topic started by: Keranu on June 23, 2007, 10:38:48 AM
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Check this out. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=78334) Just more of the typical reviews from people who don't know jack about TG16 or older gaming in general. Some of my favorite highlites:
"Where it often fell flat was in the gameplay department, with its enormous and colourful sprites frequently used to mask shallow or downright dull gameplay. This is certainly the case with China Warrior, a beat-'em-up which features some of the largest sprites of its time as well as some of the worst fighting action you're ever likely to witness."
"1/10" - Review score for China Warrior, though I guess it's better than them giving it a 6/10 to make it look like the worst score. Either way, it deserves higher!
"Probably the fastest vertical shooter on the VC, Soldier Blade is as generic as they come - colour-coded weapon power-ups, hovering support pod, manga styling..."
"Admittedly, he does get to ride a skateboard as well, but while everything looks very jolly and chunky, there are only so many times you can throw a boomerang at unmoving snakes and snails before it all starts to merge into one generic splodge of fruit pick-ups and palm tree backdrops. "
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By looking at the VC line-up, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the TurboGrafx-16 was home to mostly manic shoot-'em-ups and cartoon platformers in which prehistoric children threw things at naughty animals. It's not true, of course. The platform hosted some great sports games, some interesting RPGs and a pretty great version of Chase HQ.
The platform hosted some great sports games, some interesting RPGs and a pretty great version of Chase HQ.
The platform hosted some great sports games
Wait, what?
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Keranu, I agree: China Warrior deserves more than 1/10. Goddam! My love for China Warrior is not shaken.
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By looking at the VC line-up, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the TurboGrafx-16 was home to mostly manic shoot-'em-ups and cartoon platformers in which prehistoric children threw things at naughty animals. It's not true, of course. The platform hosted some great sports games, some interesting RPGs and a pretty great version of Chase HQ.
The platform hosted some great sports games, some interesting RPGs and a pretty great version of Chase HQ.
The platform hosted some great sports games
Wait, what?
Haha, yeah I got a kick out of that too. It's also funny had it said "some interesting RPGs" and then mentioned Chase HQ. They totally know next to nothing about the Turbo :D .
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I have a sneaking suspicion that this tool has never touched a TG-16 and the VC is his first exposure to the 8 bit fury. If China Warrior rates 1/10, then how is the "half-baked" SNES port of Final Fight worth 6/10? I do like his comment about Battle Lode Runner though - "If Dig Dug got tipsy and had an illicit evening with Bomberman, Battle Lode Runner is what the eventual mewling child would look like."
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You know I once linked to a Penny Arcade strip that said basically the same thing, and you guys pretty much flamed me out for it, and yet here you go again, eh?
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I have a sneaking suspicion that this tool has never touched a TG-16 and the VC is his first exposure to the 8 bit fury.
And this matters how? The only thing I could think of is that they lack nostalgic feelings for it, which ought to give them a more objective look at these games. In reviews like these, I'd trust these guys over hardcore PCE fans. Fans tend to be very forgiving and automatically like everything in their area, even though it is bad.
Example: Most Ys fans refuse to understand that Ys Origin is crap.
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I certainly wouldn't trust these guys about the TG16 considering that they think sport games were one of the stronger points of the console.
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Who cares what they know of a game console (which is completely understandable, as it was never released in the UK, where these doods are from). What matters is their objective view on the games they review. What system they're is completely irrelevant.
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They're objective view is wacked though since a lot of things they said could be applied to old games in general and in that case it's not fair to judge today's gaming aspects to the games of the past. I could be an objective bastard and say all 2D games have downright crappy graphics since they aren't 3D.
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I could be an objective bastard and say 3D games suck because most 2D games are more challenging.
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They're objective view is wacked though since a lot of things they said could be applied to old games in general and in that case it's not fair to judge today's gaming aspects to the games of the past. I could be an objective bastard and say all 2D games have downright crappy graphics since they aren't 3D.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=78334
They gave 7/10 to Mega Man on that exact same page. They obviously do not judge today's gaming aspects to the games of the past. And they're right too, the game is stiff and boring. Massive sprites like that really is a bad thing, it is now and it was then. It makes the game practically unplayable.
Looking at some other reviews, it seems they generally give rather good scores to these old games. Except China Warrior, because it sucks.
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I could be an objective bastard and say that Zelda 3 is a poor game.
But then FM-77 would tell me that I'm a biased/irrational/foolish bastard, not an objective bastard.
In other words, one man's "objective" viewpoint is subjective BS to another man, so why even bring the term up when discussing game quality?
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I could care less what some jerk on some site says about these games. If I like a game, I will play it. After all, your own opinion is what really matters because you are the one playing the games, not some web critic.
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Looking at some other reviews, it seems they generally give rather good scores to these old games. Except China Warrior, because it sucks.
He's right-- looking through the few pages of reviews they have up, the TG-16 games (excluding China Warrior) seem to score on average higher than the NES, Megadrive and SNES offerings.
But the bottom line is, it's just one guy's opinion.
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You guys make it sound as if China Warrior is a feeble game -- IT
ISN'T.
In fact, China Warrior KICKS YOUR ASS.
I speak the Truth. :)
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I remember the first time I played China Warrior, I was amazed. The large sprite was something that was really cool. It was the only game of its time to have that large of sprite, maybe the only game ever. I always enjoyed fighting those army guy bosses, they looked like my neighbor, haha.
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[steve, close your eyes now to avoid suicidal (or homicidal) thoughts]
China Warrior is worth more than 1/10 points, but it's not a spectacular console game. Yes, it relies heavily on the "WOW"-factor of the large sprites. And yes, here and now in 2007 this "WOW" factor isn't as pronounced as it was in 1987. But graphical prowess aside, the game isn't a train-wreck. Sure, it's pretty shallow. Yeah, Bruce Lee II is a little stiff-limbed. And I'll admit a lot of the bosses leave something to be desired. But I've said before, and I'll say again, China Warrior is my #1 time-waster game when I'm playing the Turbo on-the-go with my GT. I've popped China Warrior into my GT more often than any other game when I've just got a few minutes to burn.
Despite it's shortcomings, it's control doesn't even approach the atrocity of Street Fighter, and the game does move along at a decent enough pace to keep you occupied. And in small doses, the game is plenty of fun. The graphical design and gameplay seem to me like they were tailor-made for the GT (although they obviously weren't).
Having said all that I'll add that I rarely play the game on my TurboGrafx console. There are too many other better time-wasters better suited to the big-screen.
[steve, it is now safe to open your eyes]
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I have a sneaking suspicion that this tool has never touched a TG-16 and the VC is his first exposure to the 8 bit fury.
And this matters how? The only thing I could think of is that they lack nostalgic feelings for it, which ought to give them a more objective look at these games. In reviews like these, I'd trust these guys over hardcore PCE fans. Fans tend to be very forgiving and automatically like everything in their area, even though it is bad.
Example: Most Ys fans refuse to understand that Ys Origin is crap.
It matters because he made it matter. If he wants to waste space in a review talking about the history of the console, then maybe he should actually know a little something about it. I didn't say that he had to have played a TG-16 for the past 20 years, but he should have played a few dozen games on real hardware at some point (preferably recently). Based on his comments about the TG-16, it's obvious that he knows very little about the console or its library (oh yeah, tons of great sports titles). It's fine if the only exposure he has is on the VC, but then he should limit his reviews to the VC games.
I'll stand by my original assessment. TMNT for the NES and Final Fight for the SNES both were rated 6/10, yet the review comments were just as negative as China Warrior's. This clown just can't give a consistent, intelligent review and rating. I actually agree that China Warrior is pretty sucky. It isn't the absolute worst game ever, but there are plenty of better side scrolling beat 'em ups.
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Blame Hudson for releasing garbage like China Warrior & Lode Runner on the VC and making the TG16 look bad, you can't expect someone who isn't a Turbo fan to play China Warrior and actually like it. Hell 90% of Turbo fans even hate the game, a 1/10 score is about what I'd give it too.
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THANK you.
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Battle Lode Runner was a great choice to release for the VC, if for the import factor alone.
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I gotta admit, as much as I love China Warrior, it was a bad choice, atleast, this early in the game! I hope they release Drop Off next!!
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I gotta admit, as much as I love China Warrior, it was a bad choice, atleast, this early in the game! I hope they release Drop Off next!!
Done and done.
Next month's releases include- Dragon Spirit, Air Zonk, Devil's Crush, Drop Off and Silent Debuggers.
At this rate, the Turbo catalogue will be maxed in no time.
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Dragon Spirit? Finally something cool! :)
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I gotta admit, as much as I love China Warrior, it was a bad choice, atleast, this early in the game! I hope they release Drop Off next!!
Done and done.
Next month's releases include- Dragon Spirit, Air Zonk, Devil's Crush, Drop Off and Silent Debuggers.
At this rate, the Turbo catalogue will be maxed in no time.
Drop off is 0/10 (or even worse) in comparison to China Warrior, which isn't saying much considering how folks feel about China Warrior.
All I can say is this: there are tons of crap games (Kaze Kiri! Fighting Street!) that deserve 1/10 and scores of that nature.
China Warrior, on the other hand, is clearly and undeniably solid gold! I actually like the gameplay... as I've said numerous times in the past, CW is a rhythm-game at heart (yes, a rhythm-game well before the genre was officially branded) and when you "get in the zone", quick reflexes alone will allow you to proceed seamlessly. Sure, you can memorize some of the key moments of a stage (i.e. moments when a sweeping jump kick is required, or the spots where you'll find power-ups, patterns for the bosses), but the overwhelming bulk of the game is a fantastic twitch-reflex rhythm game that really flows nicely when you smack down all of the spatulas, pots and sponges the game throws at you.
Remember: do not use turbo switches and use a variety of offensive moves. China Warrior is actually quite enjoyable, and the music kicks ass and really helps you get into the rhythmic gameplay.
I had written a nice "In Defense of China Warrior" post at magicengine (no, I didn't mention the graphics at any point), but it must have been wiped away when they lost 1-2+ years of posts.
Disclaimer: No, I don't expect 99.99% of folks to become fans of China Warrior. I do hope, however, that I might pique the interest of the remaining 0.01%. Given the fan base of TG-16, this amounts to approximately 1 person every decade or two. Yeah, it's tough work :).
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Any functioning game with some length deserves at least a 3 unless there is a major design flaw tossed in.
Here's another score of 1 for China Warrior to fuel the flames-
http://www.vc-reviews.com/review/534/china-warrior.php
IGN was generous enough to give it a 1.5, with great comments like "It stinks" and how the Nintendo employee who greenlit CW's release should be fired-
http://wii.ign.com/articles/800/800480p1.html
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Yeah I saw that IGN review today. Here is something I found interesting in it:
"Horrible. A side-scrolling fighter that forces you to constantly move, severely limits your attack options and only has room for three sprites on-screen at once."
That quote refers to the gameplay and gives that portion of the game a 1.5. Even with the forced scrolling, you still get more attack options than Mario :P .
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Nice! These reviews make me happy. Bad games SHOULD get bad reviews. Yet they rarely do. Perhaps reviewers worldwide are finally getting to their senses?
Right, I also noticed China Warrior got a really bad review in a magazine I have. They called it a tech demo, I believe. Good, good.
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The only people who give good reviews for China Warrior these days are a few people from these boards, so I don't know where you're getting your information, Sel.
And I agree, China Warrior could be classified as a tech demo, but does that mean it's a bad game? Far from it. Just because a game has critical flaws doesn't mean it's not enjoyable.
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The only people who give good reviews for China Warrior these days are a few people from these boards, so I don't know where you're getting your information, Sel.
And I agree, China Warrior could be classified as a tech demo, but does that mean it's a bad game? Far from it. Just because a game has critical flaws doesn't mean it's not enjoyable.
All puzzle and mini games are only tech demos and they're now more popular than ever.
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You folks do remember that when I was a kid I called this game "Cheena Warrior" because some idiot in school said it was pronounced that way, right? And, I believed him, even though I should have known better. It took me a year to realize what a dumbass I was.
That alone should warm your China Warrior-hating hearts and give this game a chance.
China Warrior is a work of art compared to Altered Beast on Genesis. Take that, motherf*ckers!
:)
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I gotta admit, as much as I love China Warrior, it was a bad choice, atleast, this early in the game! I hope they release Drop Off next!!
Done and done.
Next month's releases include- Dragon Spirit, Air Zonk, Devil's Crush, Drop Off and Silent Debuggers.
At this rate, the Turbo catalogue will be maxed in no time.
Wait, they're actually releasing Drop Off? I specifically told them over at the Hudson boards, NOT to! That game is terrible! I mean, there are worse, but, sheesh! Silent Debuggers doesn't really do much for me either unfortunatly.
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they're actually releasing Drop Off? I specifically told them over at the Hudson boards, NOT to! That game is terrible! I mean, there are worse, but, sheesh! Silent Debuggers doesn't really do much for me either unfortunatly.
You think they listen to fans? They do what they want to, and that's it. :P
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I know, I know, but, still, that game is craptastic! ](*,)
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Just wait until Night Creatures gets released(they're going to bring back every Turbochip they can). I'd also say Darkwing Duck and Talespin, but I think Hudson's too cheap to pay for the licensing.
Although... those particular licenses may be pretty cheap right now since all that Disney has done with them is release ultra budget low quality dvd sets for kids.
And Hudson may go for it since licensed games on average do way better than original titles.... and they may be banking on familes who own these show on dvd to fall for the trap...
As for Night Creatures, I hope they do something to fix it, since a few minor tweaks like actual collision, a couple extra bgm's and unlimited continues would totally transform the game.
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Aah, it was Night Creatures that was bad! I always confuse it with Shape shifter for some reason.
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Aah, it was Night Creatures that was bad! I always confuse it with Shape shifter for some reason.
Probably because they're both non-japanese Castletroids in which you gain new beast forms by defeating bosses.
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Well, Tale Spin is a decent game in some respects, but Darkwing Duck......no. Though there are a few nice looking parts, like the magnifying glass, & the ridiculous amount of paralax in Moliarty's level.
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Well, Tale Spin is a decent game in some respects, but Darkwing Duck......no. Though there are a few nice looking parts, like the magnifying glass, & the ridiculous amount of paralax in Moliarty's level.
Completely agreed, though I don't remember Moliarty's level so I can't really comment on that! The scenes before levels started in Darkwing Dark present a really cool looking game but once you get into the action it just straight up blows. It's a shame too because the bosses seem like they could've been fun.
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Chuck Norris allowed China Warrior to exist. Can it really be that bad?
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Chuck Norris allowed China Warrior to exist. Can it really be that bad?
Hehe. Oh Chuck Norris. How will planet Earth repay you for all that you've done? :mrgreen: