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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Arjak on July 09, 2007, 09:02:28 AM
Title: What games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 09, 2007, 09:02:28 AM
I just recently bought Magic Engine (because ebay prices for actual systems are insane) and I was wondering what CD games I should get. I currently have the following on my want list:
Lords of Thunder (ordered and waiting for arrival) Ys series Gate of Thunder Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes Implode Meteor Blaster DX
Please make suggestions on other games I should look into; and feel free to praise or criticize any of the games listed. I don't want to get a bad game by accident!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: sunteam_paul on July 09, 2007, 09:23:37 AM
Schbibin Man 3 Dracula X Star Parodia Wonder Boy : Monster Lair Dungeon Explorer II Spriggan
to name but a few...
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on July 09, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
I already posted this on MagicEngine.com, but get Sapphire. :)
Please make suggestions on other games I should look into; and feel free to praise or criticize any of the games listed. I don't want to get a bad game by accident!
Implode f*cking rules. I put off buying it for a long time because in all honesty, I thought it looked so-so. I can't say much for the "bonus" games included (more like demos), but Implode itself is serious fun. Whenever I put it in I can't stop playing. Things start moving at a maniacal pace around level 9 or so. The music is sweet, too.
And of course I don't need to say anything about Ys, Lords, and Gate of Thunder. Those are a given.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Turbo D on July 09, 2007, 12:19:33 PM
You already picked out the greatest cd games, so I guess I can only suggest cotton. But on the other hand, that Cotton really pisses me off :x :P
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: guyjin on July 09, 2007, 02:04:37 PM
magic engine is a scam. There are better emulators, and they're free.
I'm sorry you wasted money on it. #-o
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Turbo D on July 09, 2007, 02:29:34 PM
magic engine is pretty easy to use, but it does perform sloppy and sometimes slow. Also, it can be free :wink:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Tatsujin on July 09, 2007, 02:37:52 PM
here some more
Nexzr Sapphire Faussete Amour Forgotten Worlds Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou Horror Story Image Fight II Kaze Kiri Metamor Jupiter R-TYPE Complete CD Rayxanber II Rayxanber III Spriggan Mark 2: Re Terraform Project Sylphia Super Raiden Rainbow Islands
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 09, 2007, 03:08:06 PM
Magic Engine isn't a scam, it's the only "professional" grade PCE emulator there is. Every other one lacks in one way or another.
Mednafen is by far the most accurate, but configuring it is a bitch, and it doesn't start up centered. It also lacks a few niceties that Magic Engine has. Hu-Go! requires a massive runtime to be installed and configured first. Also, its colors are usually wrong. YAME has a lot of broken dialogs. Ootake has incorrect emulation and is rather buggy overall. hu6280 is abandoned and lacks accuracy anyways. tgemu works decently but severely lacks the "professional touch".
Any other PCE emulator isn't even worth listing here. Right now though, the real battle for the crown is between Magic Engine and Mednafen. If Mednafen had a proper frontend and added some of the cool features that Magic Engine has (such as slowmo/speedup), it would be the clear-cut winner.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 09, 2007, 03:31:02 PM
I've only seen these games on TZD, but they look interesting. What is your opinion on:
J.B. Harold Murder Club Shape Shifter
And yeah, I tried a couple other emulators before going to Magic Engine, I too thought it was a big scam, but now I realize that it was the only realistic choice if I wanted to play Turbo games. The other emulators I tried didn't measure up, and ordering a Turbo Duo off of ebay is an even bigger scam than Magic Engine!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on July 09, 2007, 03:38:34 PM
f*cking awesome. I haven't had a chance to play through the entire game yet, but it appears incredibly big, and has an interesting premise. Not to mention nice graphics. Beating bosses gives you the ability to morph into different creatures.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 10, 2007, 10:46:07 AM
Shape Shifter has a lot of nice features in it (faked multiple parallax, ADPCM streaming, etc) but it seems they forgot to concentrate enough effort on what really matters in a game...proper gameplay. That aspect of the game was clearly tacked on as an afterthought. If you can get used to the VERY erratic and mostly broken controls, you might have fun with it.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on July 10, 2007, 10:59:28 AM
The main gameplay flaw I found in Shape Shifter is when you're on the ledge of a platform and your character (especially the panther) will fall off if you wait there for a second. However this flaw actually makes the game fun for me as it feels great once you get used to this weird design :) .
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Bake on July 10, 2007, 11:48:32 AM
I think a lot of turbo fans dislike Shapeshifter because it is difficult, and it takes awhile to master the levels so you don't die often (I think you can only die 9 times; after that, game over). However, I still recommend that you purchase the game. I liked it even though the gameplay is at times tricky (that panther!). I even beat the game, but because it was so difficult I don't think there is a lot of replay value in it (Maybe, I'll try to beat it again someday). So, I would start with Ys book I and II, Gate and Lords of Thunder. Then, get Shapeshifter and whatever else you think looks fun.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: runinruder on July 10, 2007, 11:57:00 AM
Shape Shifter and JB Harold are both excellent.
Shape Shifter is tough at first. You need to put in some practice to master the controls and familiarize yourself with the level layouts. Once you reach a point of proficiency, the game feels great to play. Completing it is a rewarding experience (even moreso when you can do it with one life). And everything else, from the parallax to the soundtrack to the big bosses, rules from the get-go. I've played through it lots of times. But if you're not willing to put in some practice time, or you're simply not a good player, then don't bother with it.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on July 10, 2007, 12:43:19 PM
Shape Shifter is tough at first. You need to put in some practice to master the controls and familiarize yourself with the level layouts. Once you reach a point of proficiency, the game feels great to play. Completing it is a rewarding experience (even moreso when you can do it with one life). And everything else, from the parallax to the soundtrack to the big bosses, rules from the get-go. I've played through it lots of times. But if you're not willing to put in some practice time, or you're simply not a good player, then don't bother with it.
Or you don't care for games with sub par play controls :wink:
There are plenty of challenging games with good-to-great play control. Shapeshifter is not one of them.
The game seems polished in all other areas though. The graphics are great and really beautiful at times and the effects are nice. The sounds effects are up to snuff and the music is really cool. If your a PCE/DUO lover, then you'll probably forgive the controls. But if this game were on another system, I'm sure it wouldn't fare so well from its fans.
Ys and Dragon Slayer on your list, that'll keep you happy and busy for a while. I'd go for CF2, DE2, and Ys 3 (maybe - if you can handle the scrolling . After a little while I don't even notice it anymore).
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 10, 2007, 01:22:47 PM
What Shape Shifter fans don't seem to grasp is the true concept of challenge. There's a major difference between a game being challenging due to clever level design and being challenging due to a sloppily-coded control scheme. If a game is going to be hard, it needs to be hard on its own merits, not hard because it's difficult to control. Shape Shifter is hard because it's difficult to control (and full of cheap-ass hits too, which makes it even worse). Factor in some rather poor coldet with weaponry (such as thrown weapons never hitting enemies on the way back...wtf? even Camp California got THIS right) and it barely gets by with a 4 out of 10. If you have to practice getting used to a sloppy control scheme, then that's not right. And I can honestly say that as both a game player and a game developer.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: runinruder on July 10, 2007, 01:30:34 PM
What Shape Shifter fans don't seem to grasp is the true concept of challenge. There's a major difference between a game being challenging due to clever level design and being challenging due to a sloppily-coded control scheme. If a game is going to be hard, it needs to be hard on its own merits, not hard because it's difficult to control. Shape Shifter is hard because it's difficult to control (and full of cheap-ass hits too, which makes it even worse). Factor in some rather poor coldet with weaponry (such as thrown weapons never hitting enemies on the way back...wtf? even Camp California got THIS right) and it barely gets by with a 4 out of 10. If you have to practice getting used to a sloppy control scheme, then that's not right. And I can honestly say that as both a game player and a game developer.
Let me break it down for you this way, chief. If you want to be good at a sport, and you suck at it at first, it's probably not because the equipment you're using is faulty. If you want to be a writer, and your material sucks at first, it's probably not because there's something wrong with the pencil you're using. If you want to be a musician, and your first few compositions suck, it probably isn't because your instruments are broken.
Shape Shifter requires practice, but not because its controls suck, as they don't. The controls feel great when you put in a little time and get good at the game. Contrast this with games like Night Creatures and Fighting Street. You can overcome the bad controls in those games and do well in them, but the controls themselves never feel good. That's not the case in Shape Shifter--well, at least if you're any good at it.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: guyjin on July 10, 2007, 01:37:11 PM
Just because you eventually get used to a hammer with a crooked handle doesn't mean it's a good hammer.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: runinruder on July 10, 2007, 01:40:05 PM
Just because you eventually get used to a hammer with a crooked handle doesn't mean it's a good hammer.
Which is exactly why I brought up Night Creatures and Fighting Street. Glad you agree with me!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: GUTS on July 10, 2007, 01:43:26 PM
Anyone who thinks Shape Shifter is difficult to control is a beginner level gamer. That game is challenging, not cheap, I beat it when I was a punk kid and I couldn't even beat easy stuff like Mega Man 2. What you beginners need is to go beat some easy games like Bonk's Revenge and Vigilante to get some achievements under your stretched out belts, then come back to Shape Shifter.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on July 10, 2007, 01:44:25 PM
Shape Shifter's design isn't perfect. But the kinds of cheap shots it has can be found in other (hit) franchises like Castlevania.
Whats important is that its a fun and rewarding game if you stick with it and make it all the way through.
I believe it should have a few improvements, like unlimited continues. But I think that almost all games are flawed(not fully perfect).
Still, not every game is for everyone and I don't blame anyone for not hanging in there with Shape Shifter if they aren't having enough fun soon enough.
Like many questy retro games, its not casual play friendly.
Anyone who thinks Shape Shifter is difficult to control is a beginner level gamer. That game is challenging, not cheap, I beat it when I was a punk kid and I couldn't even beat easy stuff like Mega Man 2. What you beginners need is to go beat some easy games like Bonk's Revenge and Vigilante to get some achievements under your stretched out belts, then come back to Shape Shifter.
I believe that part of the problem is that it doesn't use a traditional jumping(or attacking) style. Its easier to dive into a game that plays just like Mario or something familiar.
Or you don't care for games with sub par play controls :wink:
There are plenty of challenging games with good-to-great play control. Shapeshifter is not one of them.
The game seems polished in all other areas though. The graphics are great and really beautiful at times and the effects are nice. The sounds effects are up to snuff and the music is really cool. If your a PCE/DUO lover, then you'll probably forgive the controls. But if this game were on another system, I'm sure it wouldn't fare so well from its fans.
Ys and Dragon Slayer on your list, that'll keep you happy and busy for a while. I'd go for CF2, DE2, and Ys 3 (maybe - if you can handle the scrolling . After a little while I don't even notice it anymore).
I think that CF2 would fare a lot poorer on other consoles than Shape Shifter. :wink:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: runinruder on July 10, 2007, 01:50:39 PM
I believe it should have a few improvements, like unlimited continues. But I think that almost all games are flawed(not fully perfect).
I would've liked to have seen it take a cue from the "return" doors in Dragon's Curse that let you get right back to town (and the save spot) when you had just accomplished a task ways away.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 10, 2007, 03:02:36 PM
Wow, I didn't know that Shape Shifter was such a controversial game! :lol:
Oh well, I suppose I'll try it anyway, sooner or later.
So, about that J.B. Harold guy... :wink:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 10, 2007, 03:11:17 PM
I'm not usually one to reverse engineer a game (have only done shooters thus far) but I did want to see why the hell Shape Shifter was so wanked up, so I tore it apart. I've never seen such blatantly wrong timing issues under the hood, or such a f*cked up excuse for an FSM. I would rewrite the control scheme if I could but it's so far gone that it would require at least 20% of the entire game engine to be rewritten from scratch. That's the real dirt...chiefs. And you can go on with your middle-school mentality of "oh you sucky players" and cling to your ridiculous "it roxxed when I was a kid!" garbage, it doesn't change the fact that it is a fundamentally broken game inside...and now I've seen why with my own eyes and my own disassembler. I'm so glad I wasn't such a god damned amateur when I started coding a platformer for the PCE, or it'd end up with these ridiculously bad issues. Whoever coded the movement controls for Shape Shifter needs to have his balls rammed down his throat for making such rookie mistakes, and shame on quality control and the testers for letting such issues slip through the cracks (oh wait, that was common back then, wasn't it).
Bad controls = bad game, plain and simple. All the flash and cheese doesn't help its case if the game is fundamentally broken. And it is. Deal with it.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 10, 2007, 03:16:48 PM
I'm not usually one to reverse engineer a game (have only done shooters thus far) but I did want to see why the hell Shape Shifter was so wanked up, so I tore it apart. I've never seen such blatantly wrong timing issues under the hood, or such a f*cked up excuse for an FSM. I would rewrite the control scheme if I could but it's so far gone that it would require at least 20% of the entire game engine to be rewritten from scratch. That's the real dirt...chiefs. And you can go on with your middle-school mentality of "oh you sucky players" and cling to your ridiculous "it roxxed when I was a kid!" garbage, it doesn't change the fact that it is a fundamentally broken game inside...and now I've seen why with my own eyes and my own disassembler. I'm so glad I wasn't such a god damned amateur when I started coding a platformer for the PCE, or it'd end up with these ridiculously bad issues. Whoever coded the movement controls for Shape Shifter needs to have his balls rammed down his throat for making such rookie mistakes, and shame on quality control and the testers for letting such issues slip through the cracks (oh wait, that was common back then, wasn't it).
Bad controls = bad game, plain and simple. All the flash and cheese doesn't help its case if the game is fundamentally broken. And it is. Deal with it.
Wow, maybe I won't try it, then...
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 10, 2007, 03:32:49 PM
If you're a gamer in a hurry or have limited playtime, give it a miss. If you want to sit down with it for hours on end, listening to the same old terrible voice acting time and time again while unlearning every proper platforming technique you already know just to play this one game, give it a try.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 10, 2007, 03:41:17 PM
Okay, I've made my decision:
Shape Shifter is a miss.
But nobody seems willing to tell me about J.B. Harold. What's it like?
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on July 10, 2007, 03:44:38 PM
Bad controls = bad game, plain and simple. All the flash and cheese doesn't help its case if the game is fundamentally broken. And it is. Deal with it.
You may find Shape Shifter to be a bad game, but bad controls do not always equal a bad game. :wink:
Just as good controls do not automatically mean a great game.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on July 10, 2007, 03:50:33 PM
I love J.B. Harold. If you like detective style games (going out on a limb, but snatcher is similar), then you'll dig it. It does use fancy (read crappy) full motion video, but instead uses stills and ADPCM voice overs. I would love to play the other J.B. Harolds - are they in english?
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Emerald Rocker on July 10, 2007, 04:10:07 PM
I reverse engineered Cadash to try to figure out why it controls so sloppily. I had the noble intentions of making the game play better, but I would have to rewrite 30% of the code, so I said "to hell with that!"
I was going to reverse engineer a few more old games, but then I realized that if I'm going to be wasting time on someone else's game (as opposed to working on my own), I may as well just play those games and have some fun instead.
PS: Cadash is not a CD game, therefore you should get Shape Shifter instead (which is better anyways)
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on July 10, 2007, 04:23:50 PM
I reverse engineered Cadash to try to figure out why it controls so sloppily. I had the noble intentions of making the game play better, but I would have to rewrite 30% of the code, so I said "to hell with that!"
I was going to reverse engineer a few more old games, but then I realized that if I'm going to be wasting time on someone else's game (as opposed to working on my own), I may as well just play those games and have some fun instead.
PS: Cadash is not a CD game, therefore you should get Shape Shifter instead (which is better anyways)
Uhm, since when did you start doing PCE game dev or PCE hacking? Or are you being sarcastic. Just curious...
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on July 10, 2007, 07:26:11 PM
He's just trolling, mal, that's his job on these forums :D .
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: StarkJJ on July 10, 2007, 10:37:44 PM
I recently upgraded my Magic Engine to the latest version, and was finally able to play my old copy of Shape Shifter. The funny thing is, the first thing I thought was, "controls aren't too bad". The controls honestly felt fine to me. I remember the controls being kind of bad when I had a duo, but when I played it recently it felt fine. Maybe I'm just a far superior gamer these days 8). Oh yeah, I'm new here.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on July 11, 2007, 03:30:31 AM
Maybe I'm just a far superior gamer these days 8). Oh yeah, I'm new here.
Really? I thought the "Posts: 1" under your name was just a joke.
But yeah, Shape Shifter's controls aren't really as bad as "some" individuals make them out to be. There are other games on the Turbo that actually have severely flawed controls.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 11, 2007, 04:15:10 AM
I can't think of too many games that have terribly flawed controls. I know everyone harps on Camp California but fortunately, the only real problem with that game is Byron's sprite-to-background coldet routine. Some games are missing something or have strange glitches (Turrican comes to mind...no direction change when crouching, and you can lay mines while falling!) but I've yet to come across many games that are terribly flawed in the controls department.
And yes, Emerald Rocker is just being a turd, as usual. It's his job to be the most annoying f*ck on the forum.
Black Tiger: good controls don't equal a good game, but bad controls will ruin a game that otherwise has the potential to be good.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: StarkJJ on July 11, 2007, 04:58:39 AM
Maybe I'm just a far superior gamer these days 8). Oh yeah, I'm new here.
Really? I thought the "Posts: 1" under your name was just a joke.
Thanks for the welcome I guess.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: offsidewing on July 11, 2007, 05:43:29 AM
If people have a problem with the controls in Shape Shifter, I have often recommend this:
Play Karateka on the Atari 7800, then go back to (game with supposed lousy controls). If you ever complain about the controls in (game with supposed lousy controls) after that, then ring your call bell and Tommy will come by with a spade shovel and hit you in the teeth with it because you are a whiner.
Still not convinced. Find yourself a copy of Impossible Mission and try that "dump truck racing at Monaco" gameplay feel.
Still convinced that you must have good controls to play a game, then that person must be a Prima Donna and one lousy gamer. A gamer doesn't bitch about controls. It's part of the game. A gamer cowboys up, familiarizes themselves with controls (no mater how awful), adapts to the paramaters of the programming, formulates a strategy, and conquers. Whether its Gran Tursimo 23, Madden 2125, or Prince of Persian Protectorate of the US. That's what you do.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 11, 2007, 07:28:06 AM
offsidewing, stfu. If people want to complain about it, they're going to, and if people ARE complaining about it, there's obviously a reason. A shit coding job is a shit coding job no matter how well you want to wipe.
By the way...Impossible Mission had pretty good controls, at least the C64 version. It was just a rather hard game...and hard on its own merits, not hard because of a botched control scheme. Karateka wasn't terribly bad either, but it could have been a bit better.
I do have a recommendation for you though: go out and buy yourself a motorcycle. Now, hacksaw off one handlebar, flatten both tires, and insert a rock into the chain. Then, start that bitch up and try to ride it without killing yourself. Best of luck. If you can do that, I'll consider Shape Shifter a decently-programmed game.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on July 11, 2007, 07:40:41 AM
Yeesh, never knew nodtveidt had such strong feelings about Shape Shifter. :?
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 11, 2007, 07:46:48 AM
Yeesh, never knew nodtveidt had such strong feelings about Shape Shifter. :?
I don't. I simply can't stand it when someone starts spewing pompous bullshit about things they don't understand, and I hate ALL fanboys. Furthermore, I'm never going to rationalize a poorly-crafted game with even poorer excuses or even insults towards other players as some are doing.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 11, 2007, 07:59:20 AM
Oh, I almost forgot...
No one here is telling anyone not to play the game, and I'm not insulting anyone who actually enjoys it. If you like the game, then fine, enjoy it. But when you start saying stupid shit like "if you can't play it then you're a sucky gamer", then you're talking shit, and it ain't cool bein' a jive turkey so close to Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on July 11, 2007, 08:15:50 AM
Still convinced that you must have good controls to play a game, then that person must be a Prima Donna and one lousy gamer. A gamer doesn't bitch about controls. It's part of the game. A gamer cowboys up, familiarizes themselves with controls (no mater how awful), adapts to the paramaters of the programming, formulates a strategy, and conquers. Whether its Gran Tursimo 23, Madden 2125, or Prince of Persian Protectorate of the US. That's what you do.
What!? What a load of crap! ("cowboy up" ? Please save it for your fellow country boys.)
Is the game horrible, no. Will the games play controls put off your average gamer, more than likely. Does the game still have appeal despite the controls, sure but not for everyone. It strange that almost every time this game's controls are mentioned, someone (not pointing to anyone in patricular ) responds that other gamers are nothing more than cry babies and it's not the controls but the difficulty.
Maybe some people are partial to sub par controls - I recommend trying Browning :mrgreen:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on July 11, 2007, 10:01:59 AM
and Tommy will come by with a spade shovel and hit you in the teeth with it because you are a whiner.
"And Tommy will come by and hit you in the head with a sledge hammer because you are a retard", I assume this is the reference you are referring to :) .
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 11, 2007, 12:21:53 PM
Can we please stop with the flaming each other? It's driving me crazy! [-X
Listen, we can bitch about games all we want. It's not going to change anything. I, being a veteran gamer, understand that there is a fine line between a tough game and a cheap game. Contra is a prime example, the classic games in the series are known for their pants-shitting difficulty, but it's not because the game threw all kinds of cheap shots at you just to piss you off (except for maybe the bulldozers in the tundra of the first game), it's because the game was well tuned. Heck, they even threw in the Konami code in some of them to let average-skilled gamers play. That's why it's a classic, because it's tough, not because the game was cheating, but because human beings often f*ck up. But if we fight about it, insult each other's gaming skills, and continue to be jerks to other posters, it's just going to make things hard on everyone.
Remember: It's not about the game being the best ever, it's about having fun.
I think I'll try Shape Shifter, if I like it, fine. If I don't, well, It's only thirty dollars.
I didn't mean to start this flame war, but I hope this finishes it.
OK, rant over.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on July 11, 2007, 02:57:23 PM
Black Tiger: good controls don't equal a good game, but bad controls will ruin a game that otherwise has the potential to be good.
Its true that it can ruin a game that would've been good and its probably usually the case.
But I'm sure that there are games with shoddy interface that people still have fun with(even though it would've been even funner with fixed controls).
Shape Shifter is a good example. Even though some people don't like it for many reasons and some such as yourself find it to actually just be a bad game... -we can also see that many people have had fun playing it and in the end thats all that matters to those who are able to enjoy it.
A quality game all round is worthless if its not enjoyable to a particular person.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Turbo D on July 11, 2007, 03:50:18 PM
speaking of games with pant shitting difficulty, how about Daimaikamura for super grafx.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: GUTS on July 11, 2007, 04:07:33 PM
LOL at the fat guy who said he "reverse engineered" Shape Shifter. Try reverse engineering some gaming skills instead chief!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Emerald Rocker on July 11, 2007, 04:13:57 PM
I reverse engineered Cadash to try to figure out why it controls so sloppily. I had the noble intentions of making the game play better, but I would have to rewrite 30% of the code, so I said "to hell with that!"
I was going to reverse engineer a few more old games, but then I realized that if I'm going to be wasting time on someone else's game (as opposed to working on my own), I may as well just play those games and have some fun instead.
PS: Cadash is not a CD game, therefore you should get Shape Shifter instead (which is better anyways)
Uhm, since when did you start doing PCE game dev or PCE hacking? Or are you being sarcastic. Just curious...
I was making fun of Noltveit's misguided (and ridiculous) idea that he can determine whether a game controls well or not based on code.
I must admit, I'm eager to play one of Notveilt's games... unfortunately, I'll have to reverse engineer it to determine whether or not it's any fun.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 11, 2007, 04:28:05 PM
So much for peace. :roll:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on July 11, 2007, 05:06:33 PM
speaking of games with pant shitting difficulty, how about Daimaikamura for super grafx.
Its not that difficult once you get the hang of it. There's just an increasing amount of cheap spots the closer you get to the end that skill alone cannot overcome.
Once you complete the first loop, it goes alot quicker the second time through. :)
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on July 11, 2007, 07:03:57 PM
Haha, I like the reverse engineer jokes.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Tatsujin on July 11, 2007, 07:17:00 PM
offsidewing, stfu. I do have a recommendation for you though: go out and buy yourself a motorcycle. Now, hacksaw off one handlebar, flatten both tires, and insert a rock into the chain. Then, start that bitch up and try to ride it without killing yourself. Best of luck. If you can do that, I'll consider Shape Shifter a decently-programmed game.
I can't fathom why people take this stuff personally. Maybe it's because they couldn't get into Karolinska Institutet, perhaps it's emotional instability, maybe videogames are the only thing where you exhibit a proficiency, maybe rent is due and you've blown all you cash on Erector Sets? I don't know. I thought we were all supposed to blindy love everything Turbo around here???
It's my opinion that it's weak to complain about a game's controls. I also think it's weak to rationalize. I also never make this stuff personal. My opinions in here are generalities (which could be as weak as rationalizing) while never geared at one person.
As far as the motorcycle thing goes, (I'll get personal now) I own a Harley 1200 Custom and BMW 1200 RT. The Harley handles like crap but is a lot more fun to ride than the very techincally proficient Bimmer. How's that for controls ruining an experience?
("cowboy up" ? Please save it for your fellow country boys.)
Picked up the phrase going to college in New England. The phrase may have it's origin's from the more recently settled portions of the US's heartland, but I picked it up around Boston.
"And Tommy will come by and hit you in the head with a sledge hammer because you are a retard", I assume this is the reference you are referring to :) .
Hell Yeah! It was just my adaptation of the classic line. And Pssst, it's 'tack hammer' and not 'sledge hammer.' :D
"Where you calling from a walkie-talkie?"
Anyways, sorry if you don't like my opinions. Voice your opinion in contrast, although don't make it personal.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on July 12, 2007, 03:11:35 PM
Hell Yeah! It was just my adaptation of the classic line. And Pssst, it's 'tack hammer' and not 'sledge hammer.' :D
"Where you calling from a walkie-talkie?"
Ahh yes, tack hammer!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nodtveidt on July 12, 2007, 03:14:20 PM
Nothing personal against you, offsidewing, you're not generally one to stir the pot. It's just that the lamebrained comments from the ones who DO like to stir the pot really piss me off (such as the one with the fat guy comment, or the one who needs to learn how to read in order to spell someone's name correctly), and then you added your comments as well which just made it worse. Bad timing, I suppose.
And besides...there's a major difference between a difference in handling and having something quite broken. If your Harley didn't have handlebars at all, or was missing one, then I'm pretty sure you're not going to have much fun riding it...or even riding it at all. That's the comparison I was trying to make. Bad handling isn't the same as broken handling, just as bad controls in a game isn't the same as broken controls in a game.
But blindly loving everything Turbo around here? C'mon...you know that fanboys suck ass. :D
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: sunteam_paul on July 13, 2007, 06:52:01 AM
I reverse engineered Deep Blue and found that it consisted exclusively of the following components.
There's a major difference between a game being challenging due to clever level design and being challenging due to a sloppily-coded control scheme. If a game is going to be hard, it needs to be hard on its own merits, not hard because it's difficult to control.
-- cough --- Aero Blasters Zero Gravity -- cough.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: PhilBiker on July 13, 2007, 07:53:55 AM
or the one who needs to learn how to read in order to spell someone's name correctly
Nah, I was just trying to piss you off. For a while I thought you weren't gonna comment on it, but thanks for giving me some satisfaction.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 13, 2007, 01:20:19 PM
My copy of Lords of Thunder arrived! YAY! I tried it out in Magic Engine and it works great! I can't wait to get my next game.
The game is just as good as everyone says. I can only imagine that any Turbo player who was ANYBODY had this game!
I was thinking about bidding on a copy of YS Book I & II, but the price was getting so high and since I already have the Complete versions, I passed.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Necromancer on July 13, 2007, 02:20:31 PM
Glad you like Lords of Thunder so much - it indeed kicks some major ass. I'd guess that it had to have one of the largest pressings, since the game is so damn good, yet TZD still has it in stock. Surely there aren't that many Turbo owners that don't also own LoT.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: GUTS on July 13, 2007, 04:39:08 PM
It's always hilarious when people on the internet get upset about someone misspelling their fake name. I want to show them their birth certificate and make sure they realize that their name really isn't "darknessdragoonlord" so who f*cking cares if anyone misspells it.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: sunteam_paul on July 13, 2007, 09:08:15 PM
It's always hilarious when people on the internet get upset about someone misspelling their fake name. I want to show them their birth certificate and make sure they realize that their name really isn't "darknessdragoonlord" so who f*cking cares if anyone misspells it.
You got that right Gust.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Turbo D on July 13, 2007, 09:32:25 PM
right on suntomb-pool
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Turbo D on July 13, 2007, 10:09:46 PM
:shock: Oh shit, I just realized that your post count was 666 on friday the 13th. Now that is flipping creepy
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: sunteam_paul on July 13, 2007, 10:41:34 PM
It's always hilarious when people on the internet get upset about someone misspelling their fake name. I want to show them their birth certificate and make sure they realize that their name really isn't "darknessdragoonlord" so who f*cking cares if anyone misspells it.
'Cause EmerildRock0x0r's a mothaf*ckingtrollonplane?
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: runinruder on July 14, 2007, 09:20:09 AM
I would, but that doesn't mean Exile is bad. It's just not a classic like the others.
I agree that Gate is definitely the best of those.
Completely agreed.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 14, 2007, 05:12:04 PM
Gate of Thunder has been ordered. Thanks for your support! 8)
P.S. In other unrelated news, I found a working copy of Mario 3 for my NES in a game shop, and I just so happened to have a gift cirtificate for the shop. Today must have been my lucky gaming day! :dance:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Turbo D on July 14, 2007, 06:05:49 PM
I like mario 3 the best out of the other nes marios. Have fun playing it :wink:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 15, 2007, 10:06:13 AM
Thanks, it is a good game. Doesn't make Ice Land any easier, that world is a BITCH! :evil:
In other news:
When my copy of Lords of Thunder arrived, the case had a huge crack in the side. So, the othe day, I transplanted the game, manual, and back insert to another, nicer looking case. It looks brand new, now. I love it. Maybe I'll post pictures if there's any interest.
I hope my copy of Gate of Thunder arrives soon. Can't wait to play it. I also get really impatient when waiting for games to arrive. Especially one I'm looking forward to. Sometimes I even find myself waiting for the mail. The day Lords arrivied, the mail was extremely late. I was so pissed off, I just sat there waiting, knowing it would come that day because that was the ONLY possible reason luck would do this to me.
I'm also waiting to see if I win the Magic Engine game contest. This month, the game is Legend of Heroes II. I entered on the hopes that I can get a copy of the first and that the second is translated.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 16, 2007, 12:29:06 PM
I have a question for anyone who has played Dead of the Brain 1 & 2. Is it worth the obscenely-high prices? I read that there is a translation in the works and it looks interesting.
Not to mention I have a soft spot for horror.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on July 16, 2007, 01:38:45 PM
I have a question for anyone who has played Dead of the Brain 1 & 2. Is it worth the obscenely-high prices? I read that there is a translation in the works and it looks interesting.
Not to mention I have a soft spot for horror.
I played part way through each, but it didn't seem very special by PCE digi comic standards.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on July 17, 2007, 11:07:03 AM
My copy of Gate of Thunder arrived in record time. :clap:
Unfortunately, there's a sound bug in Magic Engine that keeps me from enjoying it!
Also, did the 3 in 1 disk come with a back insert, originally? My copy doesn't have one. :-k
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: turbofan1 on July 17, 2007, 12:55:03 PM
I have a question for anyone who has played Dead of the Brain 1 & 2. Is it worth the obscenely-high prices? I read that there is a translation in the works and it looks interesting.
There is really nothing special about Dead Of Brain 1&2.I wouldn't pay the $200.00-$300.00 asking price for it.I am also A fan of survival horror.So I am looking forward to the eventual translation of it.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on July 17, 2007, 04:06:49 PM
Also, did the 3 in 1 disk come with a back insert, originally? My copy doesn't have one. :-k
No, it did not. Do a search here for some amusing examples you can print yourself.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on August 23, 2007, 06:35:04 AM
Bump. I found an interesting deal. I found mint copies of both Cosmic Fantasy 2 and Exile. The only problem is, I can only afford one. Which is the better game?
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on August 23, 2007, 06:44:16 AM
Sorry for the double post, but it turns out that I do have enough for both. Never mind.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on August 23, 2007, 09:58:13 AM
Bump. I found an interesting deal. I found mint copies of both Cosmic Fantasy 2 and Exile. The only problem is, I can only afford one. Which is the better game?
Depends on your genre preference. Cosmic Fantasy 2 is a fantastic RPG for it's amazing journey, characters, and cinemas but the other aspects of the game, like the graphics and standard RPG gameplay, might turn you off like others. Exile is better if you're more into straight forward games with platform action in it, but the easy challenge and short quest might not be enough for you, despite being a fun game overall. I personally think CF2 is a better game, but like I said it all depends on what you're more into.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on August 24, 2007, 06:05:07 AM
Thanks. I did end up ordering both and it sounds like I should enjoy both. They both sound like fun. Can't wait for them to arrive!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on August 24, 2007, 09:34:41 AM
You're welcome.
Enjoy!
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: rag-time4 on August 30, 2007, 08:55:53 AM
Unfortunately, there's a sound bug in Magic Engine that keeps me from enjoying it!
Sounds like it's time to buy a TurboGrafx-16 or a Duo.
I'm definitely with Nat...
Collecting the various bits and pieces that go into the TurboDuo / PC-Engine has been a big part of the fun for me. Right now I'm trying to get my hands on a "Save-kun" backup memory unit made by Koei, since I'm a huge fan of Koei games (many of which are available as Japanese TurboDuo CDs) but the games can't be saved without the backup memory unit.
There is a 128mb backup unit on ebay now, and I read elsewhere that the two backup units are compatible, so I may get the one on ebay until I can find Koei's version. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: rag-time4 on August 30, 2007, 09:08:07 AM
Can we please stop with the flaming each other? It's driving me crazy! [-X
Listen, we can bitch about games all we want. It's not going to change anything. I, being a veteran gamer, understand that there is a fine line between a tough game and a cheap game. Contra is a prime example, the classic games in the series are known for their pants-shitting difficulty, but it's not because the game threw all kinds of cheap shots at you just to piss you off (except for maybe the bulldozers in the tundra of the first game), it's because the game was well tuned. Heck, they even threw in the Konami code in some of them to let average-skilled gamers play. That's why it's a classic, because it's tough, not because the game was cheating, but because human beings often f*ck up. But if we fight about it, insult each other's gaming skills, and continue to be jerks to other posters, it's just going to make things hard on everyone.
Remember: It's not about the game being the best ever, it's about having fun.
I think I'll try Shape Shifter, if I like it, fine. If I don't, well, It's only thirty dollars.
I didn't mean to start this flame war, but I hope this finishes it.
OK, rant over.
Very well said. Reading this little flame war has made me want to buy shape shifter... I've been debating whether or not to buy it new since I've been buying a lot of import stuff, but now I have to try it and see what the fuss is about.
A couple of CD games I recommend are Fatal Fury 2 and Ys 3.
I enjoyed Ys 3 more than I did 1 + 2 (blasphemy?) Ys 3 has some very retro-feeling music. I get a kick out of playing the music in my car. It's a bit of an easy game, but I really enjoyed it. One knock on the game is that the background scrolling is a bit choppy in some parts. It's not nearly as smooth in the background scrolling department as the SNES version but the music and difficulty level are much more enjoyable (in my opinion)
Fatal Fury 2 is very cheap, even new (should be under 10 bucks) and some of the music is better than the Neo Geo arcade version, in my opinion. If you enjoy this genre of game, this might be the best version of Fatal Fury 2. I'd definitely recommend having a 6-button controller though (or since you are emulating, at least 4 buttons)
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on August 30, 2007, 09:33:42 AM
Quote
I enjoyed Ys 3 more than I did 1 + 2 (blasphemy?) Ys 3 has some very retro-feeling music. I get a kick out of playing the music in my car. It's a bit of an easy game, but I really enjoyed it. One knock on the game is that the background scrolling is a bit choppy in some parts. It's not nearly as smooth in the background scrolling department as the SNES version but the music and difficulty level are much more enjoyable (in my opinion)
I posted some comments about this recently. I've personally only gotten into the Ys series this past year since I wasn't a big fan of RPGs when I was younger. I own them all now, but I haven't completed II or IV yet.
Ys III put simply, just f*cking rocks. I had more fun playing through Ys III than I've had with the other three [so far]. I just couldn't put it down until I finished it. I prefer the style and melodies on III over anything I've heard of the others.
And despite a glaring technical flaw (the scrolling in certain portions), the game is still a must-own. And that's just a testament to it's greatness.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: rag-time4 on August 30, 2007, 09:47:08 AM
I enjoyed Ys 3 more than I did 1 + 2 (blasphemy?) Ys 3 has some very retro-feeling music. I get a kick out of playing the music in my car. It's a bit of an easy game, but I really enjoyed it. One knock on the game is that the background scrolling is a bit choppy in some parts. It's not nearly as smooth in the background scrolling department as the SNES version but the music and difficulty level are much more enjoyable (in my opinion)
I posted some comments about this recently. I've personally only gotten into the Ys series this past year since I wasn't a big fan of RPGs when I was younger. I own them all now, but I haven't completed II or IV yet.
Ys III put simply, just f*cking rocks. I had more fun playing through Ys III than I've had with the other three [so far]. I just couldn't put it down until I finished it. I prefer the style and melodies on III over anything I've heard of the others.
And despite a glaring technical flaw (the scrolling in certain portions), the game is still a must-own. And that's just a testament to it's greatness.
Nat, the feeling I got from playing the game wasn't that it was "flawed"...
I really felt like the programmers were trying to get everything they could out of the hardware, but the hardware limitations when the game was made let them down.
I certainly haven't played every game from the era, but as the US version came out in 1991 it's a very old game. Are there other pre-system 3.0 games that have better background scrolling? I only have a handful of pre-3.0 gaems... None of them seem better than Ys3 in terms of parallax scrolling. Anyway, there are only certain parts of the game where it is really noticeable.
I own Ys 1-4 as well, but I haven't really started 4 yet. I've played through the first 3 and Ys 3 was definitely my favorite.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: awack on August 30, 2007, 10:26:12 AM
Quote
I certainly haven't played every game from the era, but as the US version came out in 1991 it's a very old game. Are there other pre-system 3.0 games that have better background scrolling? I only have a handful of pre-3.0 gaems... None of them seem better than Ys3 in terms of parallax scrolling. Anyway, there are only certain parts of the game where it is really noticeable.
Yes there are a few pre-system 3.0 games that use a similar type of scrolling, one of them is shockman 3, the scrolling is very smooth.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: nat on August 30, 2007, 10:52:50 AM
Nat, the feeling I got from playing the game wasn't that it was "flawed"...
...
I certainly haven't played every game from the era, but as the US version came out in 1991 it's a very old game. Are there other pre-system 3.0 games that have better background scrolling? I only have a handful of pre-3.0 gaems... None of them seem better than Ys3 in terms of parallax scrolling. Anyway, there are only certain parts of the game where it is really noticeable.
I agree on the last point. It's an intermittent problem but a problem nontheless.
However, I would argue it is indeed a flaw. A very big one. If the programmers were unable to create a viable background layer they shouldn't have bothered. However, there is no reason they couldn't have. Nothing I've played in my life approaches the atrocity of [some] of the scrolling in Ys III. As awack pointed out, Shockman 3 is a Sys-2.0 game that has beautiful layers. In practice the first level of Shockman 3 and the first town in Ys III are very similar in the way the layered backgrounds are laid out. The difference is that Shockman works correctly and Ys doesn't. What compounds the issue for me is that the backgrounds in Ys III aren't even all that complex, technically. There were lowly cartridge games released in the late '80s that have better scrolling layers, for heaven's sake!
The game is so good it makes up for all this, but I still can't believe Hudson actually released a game with an issue like that.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on August 30, 2007, 12:09:05 PM
The programmers who made the Turbo versions of Ys seemed to have had problems with parallax since all of the games suffer that choppy scrolling at one point or another. Oddly enough, there is one screen in Ys III that had perfect scrolling as well as a couple screens in Ys IV.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: awack on August 30, 2007, 01:05:55 PM
Quote
If the programmers were unable to create a viable background layer they shouldn't have bothered.
I agree, they were trying to give the graphics a sense of depth but what they ended up with was an eye sore, the same goes for ninja gaiden.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on August 30, 2007, 01:52:13 PM
Some parts of Ninja Gaiden the scrolls are choppy but OK, but quite a few parts are distracting (the first level comes to mind).
Anyway, the scrolling in Ys III never bothered my. Sure it was little choppy, but multi-directional scrolls on a 2.0 card was nice to see back then. While some or most people won't care, Ys III display system is insane. On those choppy parts, the game doesn't use hardware scroll registers - it doesn't scroll at all! The game dynamically rebuilds the screen from alt sets of tiles and sprites (used as tiles) every frame (or 2 frames - I forget). Console systems were tile and tilemap based, and weren't meant for this kind of computational process. I, for one, am glad they did it. Once the mood and music kicks in, the scroll choppy side effects are nothing more than an distant memory.
Not all the scrolling in Ys III could have been replicated like Shockman 3 and other games. Some parts yes, like the town area. But multi directional scrolls techniques are so limited that most of the time they can replicated what a true multilayer system can do.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on August 31, 2007, 01:48:33 AM
Although the developers of the Turbo Ys III may or may not have known how to do multi plane scrolling for Ys III, I don't think that they even really tried.
The Turbo version is a straight port of the . Thats why it has the sprites and bgs from the computer versions and not much redrawn like the MD, SFC and X68000 versions. The Turbo port's scrolling is pretty much exactly the same as the MSX version, frame for frame, only everything runs faster.
At the very least, if they wanted to use the same technique, they might've been able to program it in at a smooth frame rate if it they weren't trying to simply replicate the MSX version.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on August 31, 2007, 09:14:44 AM
It seems that most Falcom game ports on PCE are closer to the computer originals than other console ports, but more polished.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on August 31, 2007, 07:22:52 PM
Although the developers of the Turbo Ys III may or may not have known how to do multi plane scrolling for Ys III, I don't think that they even really tried.
The Turbo version is a straight port of the MSX version (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OvW5tBufWK0). Thats why it has the sprites and bgs from the computer versions and not much redrawn like the MD, SFC and X68000 versions. The Turbo port's scrolling is pretty much exactly the same as the MSX version, frame for frame, only everything runs faster.
At the very least, if they wanted to use the same technique, they might've been able to program it in at a smooth frame rate if it they weren't trying to simply replicate the MSX version.
If I remember correctly Hudson did the Falcom ports. Either way, there wasn't much of a choice for doing multi scrolling BG layers. There really isn't a way to increase the frame rate for that method. The only other option would have been to fake multi scrolling in some of the horizontal screens and static/no separate scrolls in other areas (vertical or multi directional).
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on September 01, 2007, 04:28:57 AM
If I remember correctly Hudson did the Falcom ports. Either way, there wasn't much of a choice for doing multi scrolling BG layers. There really isn't a way to increase the frame rate for that method. The only other option would have been to fake multi scrolling in some of the horizontal screens and static/no separate scrolls in other areas (vertical or multi directional).
If it was a matter of memory, couldn't the Super CD help to increase the frame rate?
And if it was a matter of horse power, if the MSX could do it, shouldn't the PC Engine be able to do more?
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: malducci on September 01, 2007, 11:33:55 AM
Well - the game wasn't on SCD but CD (1/4 the memory size). The original CD memory size is seriously limiting.
The game (pseudo) scrolls a tile width at a time - 8 pixels. The increased the res to 352 to help make the 8 pixel increment a smaller amount of movement overall. The PCE CPU being faster than the MSX2 Z80A ( is says 3.58mhz but divide that by 3 or 4 to get the rough equivalent speed so ~1mhz vs 7.1mhz), really can't change the specs of the display processor which is the limiting factor here.
There is a way to do that effect with half tiles by one set normal tiles and the second set a transition between two tiles, but this method takes up a lot more memory, gives less overall tiles per area because of the extra tiles taking more vram space, and reduces the number of colors per tile since they would have to share a palette (not that this would really effect Ys III and it's low color count).
Btw - I think they animated the enemies in a choppy frame rate to match the background, otherwise the smooth scrolling/animating sprites would make the multi BGs pitfalls even more noticeable.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on September 03, 2007, 06:33:17 AM
You won't believe what just happened to me today.
I just got a copy of Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes.
Complete with the map.
For $35.
On ebay of all places.
I hope it arrives soon... =P~
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on September 03, 2007, 12:23:28 PM
Well - the game wasn't on SCD but CD (1/4 the memory size). The original CD memory size is seriously limiting.
The game (pseudo) scrolls a tile width at a time - 8 pixels. The increased the res to 352 to help make the 8 pixel increment a smaller amount of movement overall. The PCE CPU being faster than the MSX2 Z80A ( is says 3.58mhz but divide that by 3 or 4 to get the rough equivalent speed so ~1mhz vs 7.1mhz), really can't change the specs of the display processor which is the limiting factor here.
There is a way to do that effect with half tiles by one set normal tiles and the second set a transition between two tiles, but this method takes up a lot more memory, gives less overall tiles per area because of the extra tiles taking more vram space, and reduces the number of colors per tile since they would have to share a palette (not that this would really effect Ys III and it's low color count).
Btw - I think they animated the enemies in a choppy frame rate to match the background, otherwise the smooth scrolling/animating sprites would make the multi BGs pitfalls even more noticeable.
Yeah, most(all?) of the enemies move in increments different than regular games. I'm not sure if it lines up perfectly with the scrolling or not, but its one more reason why I'd take completely static bgs over this kind of effect.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on September 03, 2007, 06:28:40 PM
I just got a copy of Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes.
Complete with the map.
For $35.
On ebay of all places.
I hope it arrives soon... =P~
Awesome! Congrats on the great deal for a great game! At least I and some others here think it's a great game.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: geise on September 04, 2007, 02:02:16 AM
I am surprised no one has mentioned the Valis series. I loved the Valis series. Valis II and III were released here in the states and are not that expensive or hard to find. The voice acting is bad (especially in Valis III) but I love that series. Valis IV and Phantasm Soldier for the Japanese CD and SCD are very awesome as well. If you'd like to see what Valis is like you can find a version for MD/Genesis of Valis III. The Turbo version is the same with more levels and cinemas, but less or no parallax scrolling on some levels. There used to be a bug in Magic Engine that caused Valis Phantasm Soldier to not play, but it has recently been fixed. So these games have no problem in Magic Engine. Also I would suggest like others have in investing in a Turbo System. If you're not going to bother with HU Card games find a Japanese Duo-R or RX. One other way is to get a TG-16 with the CD add on and Super Card system 3. That way is actually cheaper from what I could find. Dungeon Explorer II is another one I'd recommend. I've seen it go for a good deal on ebay but I've also seen it go at a fairly reasonable price as well. Just depends on the seller and people wanting it at the time I guess. BTW I'm glad you're enjoying your Turbo games! :)
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Black Tiger on September 04, 2007, 01:20:03 PM
I'd only recommend Valis III and then if you like it, try the others.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on September 04, 2007, 02:09:53 PM
I'd only recommend Valis III and then if you like it, try the others.
Good point.
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on September 15, 2007, 08:32:29 AM
My copy of Legend of Heroes arrived a few days ago and I've finally started it. Great game! The story so far is very well done.
The only bad thing about the game is the crappy voice acting
It's amazing how bad voice acting can almost be made into an art.
This is one of my favorites:
Quote
Commander: Whatcha want!? Logan: I... am Logan... Crown Prince of Farlayne. I hearby order you to release all prisoners slaving in the pits! Commander: I hearby order you to lah dee dah dah!
When I first heard that on Retroware TV's Falcom episode on YouTube, I burst out laughing at how absurd that was.
Speaking of which, that commander is kicking my ass! I guess I need to level up more...
Title: Re: What CD games should I get?
Post by: Keranu on September 15, 2007, 08:38:14 AM
Haha, I love that "lah dee dah dah" line! Bad voice acting rules. 8)
Title: Re: What games should I get?
Post by: Arjak on January 20, 2008, 12:35:12 PM
KA-BUMP! (Since everyone else is doing it...) 8-[
Since I'm planning on getting an actual system, I thought I'd bring back this old topic of mine. And BTW...
This topic now supports HuCards and TurboChips! :dance:
My current Turbo/PC Engine library (all CD games) consists of:
On Hand
-Cosmic Fantasy 2 (US) -Exile (US) -Gate of Thunder 4-in-1 (US) -Implode (US) -J.B. Harold Murder Club (US) -The Legend of Heroes (US) -Lords of Thunder (US) -Meteor Blaster DX - Signature Edition (US) -Shape Shifter (US) -Ys Book I&II (US)
On The Way
-Ys IV - The Dawn of Ys (JP)
So if you have any suggestions, feel free to post. Don't forget 'Cards.
One thing to keep in mind: I don't know much Japanese. So try to only list games that can be played in English; officially or translated.
Games I might get:
-Alien Crush (US-HU) -Beyond Shadowgate (US-SCD) -Blazing Lazers (US-HU) -Devil's Crush (US-HU) -Dungeon Explorer (US-HU) -Neutopia (US-HU) -Neutopia II (US-HU) -Soldier Blade (US-HU) -Tennokoe Bank (JP-HU) (This is an under-rated classic, with an awesome storyline that actually changes depending on what other games you play!) :wink: -Ys III (US-CD) -Etc.