PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Black Tiger on August 18, 2007, 08:50:25 AM
-
Inspired by the polarization created by JJ & Jeff recently, I'm wondering what are some PC Engine or Turbo games that you love that many people think are garbage, or games you hate/dislike in spite of all the praise they receive?
I'm not just talking about what you think is over/under-rated, but games you actually care about one way or the other.
Here are some of mine-
Games I don't like:
Legendary Axe II
Deep Blue
Shockman
Impossamole
Shubibinman 3
Cotton
Dungeon Master: Theron's Quest
Games I do like(or don't hate):
Legendary Axe
JJ & Jeff
Keith Courage
Motoroader
Night Creatures
Fighting Street
Golden Axe
Conan Boy of Future(what little I played of it)
Even if you agree that a game isn't good, its still fine to list it if you appreciate it anyway(like Night Creatues). :wink:
-
I love Conan, but mainly because I love the anime.
I don't know about PCE games, but I really really f*cking hate the GTA series, which seems to be thought of as the best thing ever by the majority of the world. I also hate Halo, and WWII FPS games. Anything with "coaster", or "Tycoon", in the name is also shit, IMO.
I don't actually like Bonk very much at all. Its not something I think is bad or anything, I just think its bland and boring, and low end compared to other platformers from the time. I'm completely conviced people just like it because they are being contrary, or a loyalist.
I have a weird way of enjoying platformers, I guess. Basically I totally get into one of them like, Yoshi's Island, or Astroboy: The Omega Factor, or Mario64, and then don't play another one for a year or two. Because of this, I guess I don't have time set aside for average stuff.
-
I also don't like GTA's or Halo and Halo 2 campaign. But i love Halo 2 multiplayer. :wink:
-
I don't like the GTA's in what they represent, but I do love to just drive around & use cheat codes to make your car jump.
As for Bonk, atleast with me, it's not a loyalist thing. If it was, I'd hate the ones that aren't on the Turbo. Infact, I would just love the Turbo ones, all equally, but, that's not the case. I love the 2nd one the most. I really like the Gameboy ones alot. The first Super Bonk is ok, but, to me, kind of bland, but the 2nd Super Bonk is really interesting. And the arcade game, for the most part, can rot in hades.
-
BATTLE ROYALE! Best five player game for the system in my opinion!
-
One game that turbo fans don't seem to talk about much or even dislike is spriggan mk2, one of the reasons is that it wasn't vertical scrolling like spriggan 1 but i think the game is awesome.
-
Games I really enjoy on one level or another that seem to be generally shit upon by Turbo players:
Shape Shifter
Night Creatures
Impossamole
Deep Blue
Bravoman
I also like Champions Forever Boxing quite a bit. I'm not sure what the general consensus is on this one but I seem to recall it taking a lot of flak over the years.
Games I'd love to shit on given the chance:
JJ & Jeff/Kato & Ken
Victory Run
Genpei Tormaden (not to be confused with the excellent sequel, Samurai Ghost)
-
I despise anything Rockstar creates. They have been giving video games a really bad reputation here in America. Even more so than Midway ever did with the Mortal Kombat series.
-
Oh and I should say that we all love games that most people don't like. I know for a fact that the few mainstream gamers who actually know what the TG-16/PC Engine is think the system has nothing but bad games. If you love any NEC game, you sir love stuff that most people don't. Unless you are in Japan of course.
-
Games I like:
Phantasy Star 3
Altered Beast
Jackie Chan Action Kung Fu
Legendary Axe
Fire Mustang
Thunder Force 2 (hell yeah, love this one)
Super Monkey Ball 1 and 2 (GC versions)
Games I do not care for:
Any Grand Theft Auto game
Halo series (I can tolerate it, but it certainly doesn't make me 'gasm)
Bioshock (whoop de f*ckin' do, and somehow this might be game of the year)
Most FPS games, for that matter
Fatal Fury series (though it's fun with 2 players when neither of you know how to switch planes)
God of War 1&2 (again, I can tolerate it, but I prefer "pick up and play" games to story-fests)
Gran Turismo series
Plenty more in each category, I'm sure.
-
Oh and I should say that we all love games that most people don't like. I know for a fact that the few mainstream gamers who actually know what the TG-16/PC Engine is think the system has nothing but bad games. If you love any NEC game, you sir love stuff that most people don't. Unless you are in Japan of course.
Thats why I started the thread as 'Turbo & PCE' games that you have unpopular feelings for.
Even Genesis & SNES games are only for the ultra-nerdy by general gaMeR standards.
-
I like:
Rastan Saga II
Chris' Adventure (Hihou Densetsu Kris No Bouken)
Rock On
Hawk F-123
Toilet Kids
God Panic
Blodia / Timeball
China Warrior
Vigilante (Keranu actually helped me enjoy this one again!)
JJ & Jeff
Mesopotamia / Somer Assault
I don't like:
Kaze Kiri
Shububinman III
-
One game that turbo fans don't seem to talk about much or even dislike is spriggan mk2, one of the reasons is that it wasn't vertical scrolling like spriggan 1 but i think the game is awesome.
you're absolutly right there :D
that game rox and not just because it's just a shooter because it's a very special and uncommon shooter in its own style (something like assault suit walken). the graphx and BGM rox as well.
-
HATE-
nothing I have good taste. I can't believe someone actually put Bonk in here, what the f*ck. The only Turbo games I hate are the ones that everybody but Steve and Keranu also hates.
LOVE-
Buster Bros
Splash Lake
Shape Shifter
Every game Right Stuff made
-
The only Turbo games I hate are the ones that everybody but Steve and Keranu also hates.
That made me LOL.
-
The only Rockstar game I like is Bully, which I actually love, oh, & the first State of Emergency.
Anyways, I love pretty much every Turbo game ever made(Bravoman, Impossamole, China Warrior, etc.) with exceptions like Slatterhouse, Drop Off, Legion, Double Dungeons, Night Creatures, I'm sure there's more, but can't think of them at the moment.
-
You don't like Splatterhouse? What is wrong with you?
-
You don't like Splatterhouse? What is wrong with you?
Seriously!
-
I've never gotten into Splatterhouse. I played through it once as a rental back in the day, but have never been motivated to do it again since.
-
I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. I used to kind of like it when I was a kid. But, that's an example of a game people love, that I hate, or atleast, just don't like.
-
I own Sapphire; but I think it's overrated as a game by a lot of people. Technically impressive; but there are so many better shooters on the PCE.
Games that aren't as good as I thought they would be:
Dragon Spirit
Dragon Slayer
Kikikaikai
Paranoia (utter shit by the way)
The Valis games
CD Denjin
Games I like more than I thought I would:
L-Dis
Pomping World
J League Tremendous Soccer 94
Jigoku Meguri
Jackie Chan
Gamola Speed
Nothing too controversial I think...
-
Oh, and R-Type is much further from "arcade perfect" than I had been led to believe.
-
Here's my picks (besides the obvious ones that are nearly universally loved / hated):
Love -
Godzilla
Splash Lake
Buster Bros.
Camp California
Final Zone II
It Came From The Desert
Grand Theft Auto series
Hate -
Legendary Axe I and II
Timeball
Pokemon
-
Here's my picks (besides the obvious ones that are nearly universally loved / hated):
Love -
Final Zone II
I love the music, I think the cinemas have a few moments of enjoyment, but as for the game itself? Hmmmm....
-
Hey now, I actually enjoyed the gameplay of Final Zone II! It was kind of retarded how you had to take little baby steps to stop enemies from coming in, but it was fun finding where to hit the enemy just right while reacting intime to avoid fire from other enemies. Not good, but playable.
-
Splash Lake rocks all!
-
Oh, and R-Type is much further from "arcade perfect" than I had been led to believe.
How 'arcade perfect' had you been led to believe that it was?
By the standards at the time for a game to be declared "arcade perfect", its at least 240% arcade perfect. :wink:
-
All right, Keranu, I agree that Final Zone II is playable! But, damn! Imagine how awesome FZII could have been if it had 1/100th. of the goodness in Last Alert... ohhh, that would have been awesome.
Oh, and R-Type is much further from "arcade perfect" than I had been led to believe.
How 'arcade perfect' had you been led to believe that it was?
By the standards at the time for a game to be declared "arcade perfect", its at least 240% arcade perfect. :wink:
I agree 99%: I would have pegged TG-16 R-Type as 238% arcade perfect, using 100% of the standards of the time. :)
-
There's still a lot of hype surrounding the PCE version of R-Type. Obviously the graphical power of the system does not match the arcade version, I expected that; but playing it there was a lot of animation missing and the timings are quite badly "off", making it very different to play than the arcade version.
-
Games I love but people seem to hate
Yokai Douchuuki
Genpei Tourmaden
Tower of Druaga
Cadash
Populous
World Court Tennis
Games i hate on the pce:
Detana!! twin bee
martial champion
The kung fu
shinobi
-
There's still a lot of hype surrounding the PCE version of R-Type. Obviously the graphical power of the system does not match the arcade version, I expected that; but playing it there was a lot of animation missing and the timings are quite badly "off", making it very different to play than the arcade version.
Damn, where is AirRaidX when you need him?
-
There's still a lot of hype surrounding the PCE version of R-Type. Obviously the graphical power of the system does not match the arcade version, I expected that; but playing it there was a lot of animation missing and the timings are quite badly "off", making it very different to play than the arcade version.
Damn, where is AirRaidX when you need him?
Haha, yes.
-
Games I love but people seem to hate
Yokai Douchuuki
Genpei Tourmaden
Tower of Druaga
Cadash
Populous
World Court Tennis
Games i hate on the pce:
Detana!! twin bee
martial champion
The kung fu
shinobi
I guess that Cadash falls onto my love column too (wow, that sounds awful). It ain't "arcade perfect", but it's still a damn good game. Anybody who hates this game has poor taste, so there. :P
-
Obviously the graphical power of the system does not match the arcade version,
I'd argue that the PCE/Turbo is quite capable, in fact, of an arcade-perfect port of R-Type. Especially if the Arcade Card were utilized.
At the very least they could have done something about all the f*cking flicker.
-
I guess that Cadash falls onto my love column too (wow, that sounds awful). It ain't "arcade perfect", but it's still a damn good game. Anybody who hates this game has poor taste, so there. :P
It ain't arcade perfect, but better than the arcade :) .
-
Obviously the graphical power of the system does not match the arcade version,
I'd argue that the PCE/Turbo is quite capable, in fact, of an arcade-perfect port of R-Type. Especially if the Arcade Card were utilized.
At the very least they could have done something about all the f*cking flicker.
R-Type arcade version is a very precise game to play (R-Type II more so), you really need to be pixel perfect when things get tougher (Stage 4 onwards). Actually converting that is a pretty tricky programing job I would imagine, though not impossible. I guess it just depends which version you get used to playing first; I got the PCB and PCE versions at pretty much the same time, so have put more effort into playing the arcade version.
Certainly for it's time, the PCE versions is very capable, I think it's just dated now as it's a compromised conversion. Granted, not everyone has access to the arcade version and I don't know much about how it plays on MAME or R-Types.
-
The Turbo version of R-Type has a shitload of flicker and only one plane of scrolling. It is impossible for the machine to have a graphically perfect version of that game. The Arcade Card does not add sprites. If you try to have multiple planes of scrolling, the flicker would only become about 2-4 worse than it presently is. The Turbo just isn't powerful enough. It's too weak, FACT.
That being said, I like the Turbo version of R-Type a hell of a lot more than I do the arcade. I like the colors a bit better and I like the soft PSG sound more than the hard-edged abrasive sounds of the arcade version.
-
R-Type was just an early game/port on PCE. So early, that 4 meg cards hadn't even been invented yet. A visually equal port wouldn't have been so tough for later developers.
There are plenty of other Turbo/PCE games that do everything that the arcade R-Type does, multi-layers and all.
Since R-Type is strictly horizontal, the simple sliding bg with sprite pieces trick would've been enough for the scrolling bg.
It doesn't matter though, since the port we got is still a nice game.
-
Games I love but people seem to hate
Yokai Douchuuki
Genpei Tourmaden
Tower of Druaga
Cadash
Populous
World Court Tennis
Games i hate on the pce:
Detana!! twin bee
martial champion
The kung fu
shinobi
Hey, cool! Me too! And I thought I was just crazy or something...
I have to agree that the Druaga series is not as bad as people will make you think it is. I guess it's just one of those games that you have to learn to appreciate. But the one for Playstation 2, Nightmare of Druaga, now that's a good game. It's a lot like Nethack, only without the masochistic difficulty. And it was released in America, which is a plus (for me, anyway).
-
The Turbo version of R-Type has a shitload of flicker and only one plane of scrolling. It is impossible for the machine to have a graphically perfect version of that game. The Arcade Card does not add sprites. If you try to have multiple planes of scrolling, the flicker would only become about 2-4 worse than it presently is. The Turbo just isn't powerful enough. It's too weak, FACT.
As far as I know, it's not so much the hardware that causes the flicker as it is the programming. I think nodtveidt once even told me that it's possible to program a demo which shows the max number of 64 sprites on screen moving without flicker, or maybe that was for slow down. It seems that all the Irem games for TG16 suffer bad flicker even with only a few sprites on screen.
-
I bought the Gameboy Color version of R-Type was pissed as hell that it was loaded with flicker. You can play it in "color enhanced" mode...but it just adds more flicker! Its so bad that you can't even see enemy bullets sometimes. You just explode and die for no obvious reason. Really it can only be played in b/w mode.
I know that the GBC could have done a flicker-free version of this game, and I feel the same way about the PCE.
Flicker is the main reason that most of my favorite NES games are pre-MMC.
-
R-type for PCE is a fantastic arcade conversion and release early in the pc engine's life. Yes I was a little miffed as the early levels didnt have any parallax scrolling but somehow stage 5 did.....
Before that I had r-type on the Amiga 500 and the pc engine version just trounced all over that.
Seems like most pce irem games had a lot of sprite flicker and a few others too on hucards. I dont think I've ever seen sprite flicker on the cd-rom games....well its much less occurance than HUcard games
-
As far as I know, it's not so much the hardware that causes the flicker as it is the programming. I think nodtveidt once even told me that it's possible to program a demo which shows the max number of 64 sprites on screen moving without flicker, or maybe that was for slow down. It seems that all the Irem games for TG16 suffer bad flicker even with only a few sprites on screen.
The hardware doesn't cause flicker; it does something worse! Sprites disappear completely if there are more than 16 sprites (256 pixels in total) before them on a horizontal line on the PCE. (Count how many segments in the "snake" on stage 2 there are on any single line...) So the game code/programmer has to cycle the objects into the different slots in sprite RAM so that the lesser-priority objects aren't always invisible. Of course, this causes flicker for the rest of the objects, but at least everything's mostly visible now.
Irem games flicker a lot for several reasons. Of course, they could have coded the games a bit better, but Hudson did the R-Type port, so...
Anyway, a lot of Irem games run in a wide horizontal resolution, around 352 (?) pixels wide. This means that a lot more objects/sprites are likely to land on the same line than if it were running in a resolution like 256 pixels wide. Add to that the fact that the maximum number of sprite pixels on one scanline is 256 and you have about 96 pixels of space on the screen where sprites cannot appear without employing flicker.
-
Yes, the 16 sprites per line is a killer!
-
I'm no expert on this; but I think the arcade version of R-Type uses a slightly higher resolution than other games.
E.g.
R-Type: 384 x 256 pixels
Ghosts 'n Goblins: 256 x 224 pixels
Rainbow Islands: 320 x 224 pixels
Wonder Boy III: 320 x 224 pixels
Street Fighter Zero 2: 384 x 224 pixels
I know I have to resize my monitor more for the R-Type games than others. This is bound to have an effect when trying to replicate the arcade version in the home.
And there is a little flicker on the arcade version, only really when you destroy an end of stage boss though and the screen fills up with explosions; not when you actually play the game.
-
Yeah, what Chris said. The arcade runs at a resolution of 384x256, so there's no way for the Turbo to achieve an AirRaidX-certified "arcade perfect" port. But then again even if it was exact and the Turbo didn't accept quarters or tokens, AirRaidX wouldn't approve of it.
Digi.k, the R-Type Super CD flickers.
-
Even the Playstation port isn't perfect and crops the screen the same way as the Turbo/PCE version. I forget exactly how the non-vertically scrolling option works, but its not technically arcade perfect either.
-
The non-vertically-scrolling version on the PSX has the gameplay full-screen, with the score and beam panel transparently overlaid the game screen.
-
Yeah, what Chris said. The arcade runs at a resolution of 384x256, so there's no way for the Turbo to achieve an AirRaidX-certified "arcade perfect" port. But then again even if it was exact and the Turbo didn't accept quarters or tokens, AirRaidX wouldn't approve of it.
Digi.k, the R-Type Super CD flickers.
God forbide if a port of Ghost n Ghouls doesn't hide Arthur's foot behind a bush when ducking down! THAT IS NOT ARCADE PERFECT!
-
Yeah, what Chris said. The arcade runs at a resolution of 384x256, so there's no way for the Turbo to achieve an AirRaidX-certified "arcade perfect" port. But then again even if it was exact and the Turbo didn't accept quarters or tokens, AirRaidX wouldn't approve of it.
Digi.k, the R-Type Super CD flickers.
God forbide if a port of Ghost n Ghouls doesn't hide Arthur's foot behind a bush when ducking down! THAT IS NOT ARCADE PERFECT!
Not bush Keranu, single blades of grass. [-(
-
God forbide if a port of Ghost n Ghouls doesn't hide Arthur's foot behind a bush when ducking down! THAT IS NOT ARCADE PERFECT!
Heh heh! That is the line of the day in my opinion. :lol:
-
And a great line at that, haha.
-
Yeah, what Chris said. The arcade runs at a resolution of 384x256, so there's no way for the Turbo to achieve an AirRaidX-certified "arcade perfect" port. But then again even if it was exact and the Turbo didn't accept quarters or tokens, AirRaidX wouldn't approve of it.
Digi.k, the R-Type Super CD flickers.
God forbide if a port of Ghost n Ghouls doesn't hide Arthur's foot behind a bush when ducking down! THAT IS NOT ARCADE PERFECT!
Not bush Keranu, single blades of grass. [-(
Oh yes, how could I forget?
-
Yeah, what Chris said. The arcade runs at a resolution of 384x256, so there's no way for the Turbo to achieve an AirRaidX-certified "arcade perfect" port. But then again even if it was exact and the Turbo didn't accept quarters or tokens, AirRaidX wouldn't approve of it.
Digi.k, the R-Type Super CD flickers.
God forbide if a port of Ghost n Ghouls doesn't hide Arthur's foot behind a bush when ducking down! THAT IS NOT ARCADE PERFECT!
Not bush Keranu, single blades of grass. [-(
You guys rock :)
Air
Raid
X
4
Eva
I did like the mp3's AirRaidX made to help compare the different renditions of the songs, though. That was kool.
-
Some games I don't particularly like:
After Burner II
Bonk's Revenge
Neutopia II
Parasol Stars
Super Star Soldier
Dynastic Hero
Exile II
Langrisser
Popful Mail
Spriggan mark 2
Ys 4
Some games I like:
Deep Blue
Double Dungeons
Energy
Final Soldier
Night Creatures
Samurai Ghost
Tiger Road
Veigues Tactical Gladiator
Basted
It Came from the Desert
La Valeur
Legion
Ranma 1/2 pt.1
Riot Zone
-
Oh yes, I should add Riot Zone to my earlier list of games I like that aren't widely appreciated.
-
I guess that Cadash falls onto my love column too (wow, that sounds awful). It ain't "arcade perfect", but it's still a damn good game. Anybody who hates this game has poor taste, so there. :P
It ain't arcade perfect, but better than the arcade :) .
You have to buy time in the arcade version. Makes sense why PCE Cadash is better.