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NEC PC-FX => PC-FX Discussion => Topic started by: dpaint4 on August 19, 2004, 05:13:38 PM
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I was nosing around the web looking for stuff about my new game Blue Breaker when I found this little line of text at the following URL:
"This is a role-playing game for the flop known as the NEC PC-FX which later made it to the PlayStation."
http://pantransit.reptiles.org/images/sorted/anime/blue-breaker/
THE "FLOP" KNOWN AS THE PC-FX?!?! WHAT FLOP?! This console has lived on in a HUGE WAY, and as far as I can tell, it was no flop in it's intended market.
It makes me so mad when I see crap like that. Like when people talk about how later "they turned the PC-FX into a Super Famicom and that's how Sony was born" or whatever the hell crap people pull out of their asses just to sound like they know something.
I love my PC-FX, and currently all my next-gen consoles are collecting dust, so that's what I have to say about that.
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When it comes for the money the manufacturer earns by selling the system or publishers selling the games, it maybe was a flop in that way. They sold about 300.000 units during almost 3,5 years that's less than 100.000 per year. That's not very much even taken into account that the market wasn't that large as today.
And if you look closely, there aren't many publishers who published more than one game for the system except NEC (obviously), Hudson or KOEI. I think that some of the later games were published under the NEC's label just because the original publisher lost their interest/fait for the platform.
When you just look at the market share and the money gained you'll probably also consider the Sega Saturn a flop. But certainly in my opinion it wasn't.
Neither the FX was a flop for me. I like the system very much! I love to play those games because some are exclusive to this platform and I like to play games that not so many people around the world play ;-) They have a certain charm that most nextgen games are missing for me. The obscurity, exclusiveness and sometimes innovation they posses are making the deal for me.
But I think, but I don't know for sure because I don't own that system, that the Playstation platform offers some real good games to play. In number far more than a system like the FX offers. So many people see the FX as a flop. But who cares what the masses think. I like to think different ;-)
The PC-FX is a great system for me but not for the masses. So I don't care as long as I have so much fun with my system. I also like my Neo Geo, GP32 or when I comes to computers, my Apple Mac. Most people would also considers these machines as flops or something like that. But I like those machines and don't care what others think.
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I agree. Relatively speaking - in marketshare/sales terms - the PC FX can be considered a flop. But that doesn't make it a bad console. I mean, 90% (or more) of gamers have no idea what the PC FX is. Just go to GameFAQs and look on the message boards to see what I mean. Their PC FX board is overrun with people who use it as a PC board because they have no idea that it was a console.
Flop? Maybe. Bad system? Not at all.
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Well... still... to me, it is like a rare bottle of wine, and the proudest shining jewel of my collection, even above my Marty's and my GP32. I had wanted a PC-FX for TEN YEARS ever since I saw a blurb about it's arrival in GameFan magazine. I am such a proud owner! Even though the perfect game was perhaps never made for it, the kind of game that was possible for this system makes it a very romantic icon of gaming to me, and a symbol of a time in gaming that was so wonderful. (The last years of 16-bit and bit birth of 32, when 2D graphics were their finest.)
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Well, once the PC-FX World site is back online, we gotta get those GameFaq PC-FX boards corrected :D
Anyone remember the magazine NextGen? If you do, remember that issue that had a run-down on all of the next-gen 32-Bit+ consoles? They had the PC-FX on there, and they too had a comment in there that really upset me. They said at the end of the article that "NEXT Generation will continue to cover products for the FX until it is possible to determine if anyone really cares." I sounded like the magazine already didn't care about the PC-FX before it even came out..... :|
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I remember Next Gen VERY well. I used to love reading that magazine. Not sure when they kicked the bucket though. GameFan was my jewel. I was sick when they started operating shoddily, and NOT mailing me my magazines every month, after 7 years of loyalty. In the end i complained that i wanted my money back, as i was tired of calling every month to get my magazine when the freaking newsstand had the issue before me. Very sad end for a great magazine with raging full color, and lots of NEC coverage. They agreed to mail me back my years subscription fee, but i never saw it, and they closed their doors shortly after that call.
Anyone remember their import game store before they became a magazine? Superb business ! I look back in great fondness for that store, as they were TRUE gaming enthusiasts, and knew their work to a T. They would even take a loss by telling you to steer away from a game they were selling, just because they didn't want an unhappy customer. I used to talk to Greg Off alot, and he was so nice. Julie Segal ( who i THINK married Dave Halverson, as there is a Julie Halverson at PLAY magazine, which Dave owns/runs/writes for. ) was also very friendly and helpful, and a few, but not many, times i got to talk to Kei Kabuki. Talking to Kei was nice as he is Japanese i believe, and could tell you about certain Japanese games that you didn't know what was about due to the language barrier. He was also very friendly.
Taking time out of their busy schedule to BS with loyal, dedicated gamers was another asset to this company. To this day i still feel some guilt for hogging up their time on the phone ( running up my long distance as well!!! ), and even though i apologized they sincerely appreciated the loyalty/fanbase, and would keep talking until they got too busy, and always said " Don't worry about it" or " it's ok, we love talking to you. It's a pleasure. "
I always wondered what happened to Greg Off. I really wish gameFan never died. Too bad we couldn't get a reunion interview for the site.
PC-FX pissed me off personally. It came out too late, and got crushed by the competition. I wanted this baby SO bad and high hopes for it taking off where the PC Engine couldn't go, and possibly making a comeback here in the states. If it had come out a year earlier, we woulda had our Iron Man in the US of A. Even after it did come out, i still wanted one, but was way too much for me at the time, so i got a Playstation. Not sure how much difference in price it was from the PS1, but i didn't want the hassle of ordering it from some schmucks who might rip me off. After Die Hard Games was sold, i just didn't feel i could trust any ol' importer.
I guess i will always have the Sharp X68000 as my next supplement from NEC. What a kick ass system. Feels just like a 16 bit PC Engine(real 16 bit).
Only one shooter for the PC-FX makes me sad as well, as that is my favorite genre.
I still would love to get me a PC-FX though, since it was an NEC console.
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EVERY SINGLE GAME ON THAT SYSTEM IS ANIME RELATED, WHICH IS WHY IT sorry for caps-- in no way matches up to the turbo grafx or duo.
i love the concept of the system and design but the games which were made for it ( no great third party developers) definately made it a flop. when nec made the turbografx, they intended on eventually bringing it to the u.s., which they did. they had absolutely no intention on bringing this game to the u.s. and if you are not in the u.s., you are a flop.
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Yeah PCFX is a kickass system with a few really cool games, but there's no doubting that it was a huge flop. Not on the level of Virtual Boy flop, but it was a flop none the less and I don't see how anyone could argue that. Your own personal prefence doesn't matter, I mean hell there are actually Atari Jaguar fans out there but no one in their right mind wouldn't agree it flopped hard (but unlike the PCFX it was a horrible, horrible systemj with not even one decent game).
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Tempest 2000.
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Yeah PCFX is a kickass system with a few really cool games, but there's no doubting that it was a huge flop. Not on the level of Virtual Boy flop, but it was a flop none the less and I don't see how anyone could argue that. Your own personal prefence doesn't matter, I mean hell there are actually Atari Jaguar fans out there but no one in their right mind wouldn't agree it flopped hard (but unlike the PCFX it was a horrible, horrible systemj with not even one decent game).
Hey, the Jag had potential....the titles that were.....f$%k it....it isn't worth going over really...it flopped hard, it had little good support but when it was good...Rayman (which was supposed to be an exclusive title till Sony stole it), Tempest 2000, Alien vs Predator (it was decent)....the system was pretty good....it could have had better games but wasn't supported...feels alittle familiar...
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I enjoy the Jaguar, mainly for cheesy factor but Defender 2000 rocks hard.
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I guess you could say Tempest, that's the one game I can see people still playing. Personally I hate the game, but I know it has it's following. Wasn't there a better version of it released on PSX though?
On the subject of failed systems, I still play my 3do once in a while. It had a few tight games like The Horde, Deathkeep, and Guardian War.
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On the subject of failed systems, I still play my 3do once in a while. It had a few tight games like The Horde, Deathkeep, and Guardian War.
Another good decent system. But it had another factor that forced its failure....Price...DAMN that thing was expensive.
3DO also had great versions of Out of this World and Flashback, the only home version (at that time) of Super Street Fighter II Turbo, and a very good Fifa game.....
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The Jaguar was an exceptionally difficult console to program and that's one of the big reasons it failed. Developers had a hard time with the hardware and all the friggin processors. On the surface, the Jaguar was a relatively generic system that allowed a great range of flexibility, but you had to take into account the fact that it had two CPUs which were programmed independantly...that makes for a lot of work on the part of the programmer. You see a lot of data out there that says that the Jaguar uses a 68000 as its CPU...this is incorrect. The 68000 was a "governor" which coordinated data between the two CPUs. I don't know the hardware numbers for the CPU since they were custom-designed but they were 32-bit processors...that's where Atari got the idea of sticking them together and saying that the Jaguar was a 64 bit system. Sega tried a similar tactic at first with the Saturn having two 32-bit Hitachi processors but they quickly dropped that scheme.
The PC-FX, on the other hand, is a very yummy system to program (rather straightforward architecture except for a few...uhh..."minor" details), and I personally intend on exploring this possibility, especially now with Magic Engine FX coming to fruition.
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Yay for PC-FX development! By the way, has there been any updates on that Little Red Riding Hood game translation? I just can't wait until some of the better games get translations.
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Jaguar: I remeber reading that there was a "flaw" in the design of the hardware that prevented even the most arduous programmers from tapping into the full potential of the system. It was related to what nodtveidt mentioned, concerning the dual-co-processors... but the "flaw" was actually ... ummmm... crap, I'm not technical at all. But all of the resources (i.e. memory, processor) weren't always available, and no "software workaround" was ever developed to overcome this glitch in the hardware architecture.
Hopefully, someone here knows the details better than I...
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I was nosing around the web looking for stuff about my new game Blue Breaker when I found this little line of text at the following URL:
"This is a role-playing game for the flop known as the NEC PC-FX which later made it to the PlayStation."
http://pantransit.reptiles.org/images/sorted/anime/blue-breaker/
THE "FLOP" KNOWN AS THE PC-FX?!?! WHAT FLOP?! This console has lived on in a HUGE WAY, and as far as I can tell, it was no flop in it's intended market.
It makes me so mad when I see crap like that. Like when people talk about how later "they turned the PC-FX into a Super Famicom and that's how Sony was born" or whatever the hell crap people pull out of their asses just to sound like they know something.
I love my PC-FX, and currently all my next-gen consoles are collecting dust, so that's what I have to say about that.
Well, although I personally don't count the PC-FX as a flop, I don't blame non-pce fans who don't actually know much about it for calling it such.
I get more pissed off when people try to say that the PC Engine was a flop or the classic, "short-lived".
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I get more pissed off when people try to say that the PC Engine was a flop or the classic, "short-lived".
Haha, that always pisses me off as well. You (or maybe someone else) mentioned in another thread how people give the Turbo a bad rep just because it didn't do well out here, saying the usual "good for a Turbo" game line.
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I get more pissed off when people try to say that the PC Engine was a flop or the classic, "short-lived".
Haha, that always pisses me off as well. You (or maybe someone else) mentioned in another thread how people give the Turbo a bad rep just because it didn't do well out here, saying the usual "good for a Turbo" game line.
Or how about how revolutionary the Sega CD was, since it was "the first CD based video game system". Sega may not have spread the rumour, but dumb gamers everywhere still beleive shit like that.
Its just as bad as how EGM still describes every high-res, millions of colors, 2D game as "old-school SNES graphics". And these guys actually make a living spouting garbage like that.
And I can't think of any current game mag that doesn't go on about how "if you can get past the ugly graphics" when reffering to Neo Geo ports.
But they're all hardcore, because they sprinkle Space Invader sprites all over their magazines.
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You perfectly described all of that! I couldn't have said that better myself! Well done! I can't think of any others like that the moment, but I know there are lots of things like that magazines or people will say that piss me off.
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Mad props to Black_Tiger. Well put. 2D>3D always.
The only game magazine that ever had good taste was Gamefan, even though some games they rate bad for some imperfections but this is like 2% of the time opposed to 98% like EGM and Gamepro, so on...
How in the hell do these people rate Neo Geo games as looking bad? They need to be slapped in the face or have Exhibit A (SNES Super Street Fighter 2) and Exhibit B (NEO GEO Samurai Shodown 2) test done to them (Then still slapped them in the face).
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But that doesn't make it a bad console. I mean, 90% (or more) of gamers have no idea what the PC FX is.
A flop doesn't necessarily mean a bad system. Take the Beta/VHS thing. Or even today's Playstation 2/GameCube or XBox. The better systems don't always win. It's all about marketing, and the PC-FX probably had very little. And, the type of games released for it made it more of a niche product.
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Yay for PC-FX development! By the way, has there been any updates on that Little Red Riding Hood game translation? I just can't wait until some of the better games get translations.
Sabres been busy as far as I know but as far as I know it's mainly lack of time and a translator that keep him back.
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As far as I'm concerned, the word "flop" strictly relates to the financial level of things, and as such, yeah, the PC-FX was definitely a flop. Not the worst of all, but a flop nonetheless. Just look at the list of games... too many published by Nec, not enough diversity in genre, not enough titles. And didn't Hudson Soft have to cancel Tengai Makyo III in an advanced stage of development because the FX didn't have a remotely large enough user base for them to get a return on their investment by releasing it, let alone make a profit? What does that tell you? That's a flop. Now the system was very interesting, and had it been marketed the whole way as a true successor to the PCE, it could have gone on to have a number of awesome games, but as it is, it didn't live up to its full potential. There's a few cool games, but damn, just looking at them you can get a glimpse of what the console could have been, and what it didn't turn out to be.
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As far as I'm concerned, the word "flop" strictly relates to the financial level of things, and as such, yeah, the PC-FX was definitely a flop. Not the worst of all, but a flop nonetheless. Just look at the list of games... too many published by Nec, not enough diversity in genre, not enough titles. And didn't Hudson Soft have to cancel Tengai Makyo III in an advanced stage of development because the FX didn't have a remotely large enough user base for them to get a return on their investment by releasing it, let alone make a profit? What does that tell you? That's a flop. Now the system was very interesting, and had it been marketed the whole way as a true successor to the PCE, it could have gone on to have a number of awesome games, but as it is, it didn't live up to its full potential. There's a few cool games, but damn, just looking at them you can get a glimpse of what the console could have been, and what it didn't turn out to be.
Yeah, I think most people use the term "flop" in reference to a financial failure, first and foremost. Often, but not always, the financial failure is attributed to the "quality" of the item in question (this may or may not be the case, but folks often see a causal relationship). So we have at least three issues to deal with: 1) the quality of PC-FX itself (and it's software), 2) the profit netted from hardware / software / etc., 3) the user base.
The example of Tengai Makyo III certainly seems like it supports your conclusion (i.e. that PC-FX was a flop). However, it would be nearsighted to think that the cancellation of TM III sufficiently proves your point.
We need to look at the real data: sales figures of hardware & software (with the profit / loss). Raw sales figures are only useful for determining the user-base, but they tell us nothing about whether NEC was making a profit.
For example, we all know that Sony and Microsoft have sold tons of cosoles, BUT they were losing massive amounts of money. Sony eventually turned a profit (due to strong sales, plus they made cashloads due to software revenues), but I don't think MS ever turned a profit with Xbox (they were losing $100 a console, then the prices dropped, so they're lost a lot). Overall, MS lost millions? on Xbox -- but they are gambling that in the long-term (I don't know, maybe they have a 10 year outlook?) things will be lucrative. They can afford to do this, since MS makes billions in other divisions.
Guess what? Nintendo was making a profit on the GameCube hardware on launch day. That's friggin' amazing. When the price dropped to $99, then Nintendo was losing $10 per console.
Most folks would place Nintendo's Gamecube in distant third place in the recent console wars. But if you look at profit margins, the GameCube outperformed Xbox, and then some. The only reason Xbox is still around is because MS has zillions of dollars and can afford to subsidize the losses.
So, is Xbox a flop? Is GameCube a flop?
If PC-FX was a niche system and profitable for NEC, then was it a flop?
How should we define "flop"?
I don't have the answers, of course, but this is food for thought.
All of this leads to a question that I would love to find the answer to: Was TG-16 profitable for NEC? For how long and to what extent?
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You do raise a lot interesting points... Of course we couldn't ultimately determine the profitability of the PC-FX without a good amount of data I don't think we possess (speaking of which, what's the real figures in terms of PC-FX sales? Anybody knows?). It's possible that it worked as a niche system which market just wasn't the same as its predecessor, but even then, why didn't Nec ever produce another console? Personally, the PC-FX is a big disappointment to me. I guess it's better to look at it as an interesting side-note than as a genuine successor to the PC-Engine.
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You do raise a lot interesting points... Of course we couldn't ultimately determine the profitability of the PC-FX without a good amount of data I don't think we possess (speaking of which, what's the real figures in terms of PC-FX sales? Anybody knows?). It's possible that it worked as a niche system which market just wasn't the same as its predecessor, but even then, why didn't Nec ever produce another console? Personally, the PC-FX is a big disappointment to me. I guess it's better to look at it as an interesting side-note than as a genuine successor to the PC-Engine.
Yeah, I agree. The PC-FX does not feel like a true successor to the PC-Engine. But I don't know what other direction NEC would have taken...
Personally, I would have loved it if NEC put out a hardcore 2D console (in the spirit of NeoGeo)... but I don't think it would have been too successful competing with Sega's Saturn (and Sony's PlayStation).
And I think we can all agree that PC-FX had the potential to be a killer 2D console, had NEC actively pursued shoot-em-ups, platformers, action-RPGs, 2D arcade ports, etc. Those are my favorite genres, anyway :)
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It definately had a lot of potential...from what I know, the PC-FX is quite a powerful little number cruncher with some good graphical abilities.
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As far as I'm concerned, the word "flop" strictly relates to the financial level of things, and as such, yeah, the PC-FX was definitely a flop. Not the worst of all, but a flop nonetheless. Just look at the list of games... too many published by Nec, not enough diversity in genre, not enough titles. And didn't Hudson Soft have to cancel Tengai Makyo III in an advanced stage of development because the FX didn't have a remotely large enough user base for them to get a return on their investment by releasing it, let alone make a profit? What does that tell you? That's a flop. Now the system was very interesting, and had it been marketed the whole way as a true successor to the PCE, it could have gone on to have a number of awesome games, but as it is, it didn't live up to its full potential. There's a few cool games, but damn, just looking at them you can get a glimpse of what the console could have been, and what it didn't turn out to be.
I don't think that TMIII ever got to an advanced development stage before the PS2 release. I'm sure that a lot was planned out 'on paper'.
Otherwise, we'd have seen at least one in-game screenshot(not just the slapped together "intro").
And if it had gotten far enough as an actual running game, they'd probably have at least tried porting it to Saturn or PSX, in which case we'd have at least gotten a screenshot.
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You do raise a lot interesting points... Of course we couldn't ultimately determine the profitability of the PC-FX without a good amount of data I don't think we possess (speaking of which, what's the real figures in terms of PC-FX sales? Anybody knows?). It's possible that it worked as a niche system which market just wasn't the same as its predecessor, but even then, why didn't Nec ever produce another console? Personally, the PC-FX is a big disappointment to me. I guess it's better to look at it as an interesting side-note than as a genuine successor to the PC-Engine.
Yeah, I agree. The PC-FX does not feel like a true successor to the PC-Engine. But I don't know what other direction NEC would have taken...
Personally, I would have loved it if NEC put out a hardcore 2D console (in the spirit of NeoGeo)... but I don't think it would have been too successful competing with Sega's Saturn (and Sony's PlayStation).
And I think we can all agree that PC-FX had the potential to be a killer 2D console, had NEC actively pursued shoot-em-ups, platformers, action-RPGs, 2D arcade ports, etc. Those are my favorite genres, anyway :)
I consider the Saturn to be the spiritual successor to the PCE and the Dreamcast after that in many ways.
Not only did the Saturn get the most PCE'ish PCE-brand and non-PCE-brand sequals(Saturn Bomberman VS all those 3D ones), but it was also a competant system for its class when in the right hands.
Once again good developers turned out some of the most cutting edge graphics to compliment great games and lazy developers didn't even attempt a lot of things because it wasn't already programmed into the hardware.
And although the other 2 systems are considered to be more successful and have more software, the Saturn by far has more titles that interest me, just like the PCE over MD/Gen & SNES/SFC.
But even just TM: Apocalypse IV and Saturn Bomberman alone make it enough of a 32-bit PCE for me. Also I love Snatcher and Policenauts fits nicely into my PCE-successor vision, let alone all the original-original content that it aso has.
To me at least, the Saturn is way more PCE than MD'ish.
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You do raise a lot interesting points... Of course we couldn't ultimately determine the profitability of the PC-FX without a good amount of data I don't think we possess (speaking of which, what's the real figures in terms of PC-FX sales? Anybody knows?). It's possible that it worked as a niche system which market just wasn't the same as its predecessor, but even then, why didn't Nec ever produce another console? Personally, the PC-FX is a big disappointment to me. I guess it's better to look at it as an interesting side-note than as a genuine successor to the PC-Engine.
Yeah, I agree. The PC-FX does not feel like a true successor to the PC-Engine. But I don't know what other direction NEC would have taken...
Personally, I would have loved it if NEC put out a hardcore 2D console (in the spirit of NeoGeo)... but I don't think it would have been too successful competing with Sega's Saturn (and Sony's PlayStation).
And I think we can all agree that PC-FX had the potential to be a killer 2D console, had NEC actively pursued shoot-em-ups, platformers, action-RPGs, 2D arcade ports, etc. Those are my favorite genres, anyway :)
I consider the Saturn to be the spiritual successor to the PCE and the Dreamcast after that in many ways.
Not only did the Saturn get the most PCE'ish PCE-brand and non-PCE-brand sequals(Saturn Bomberman VS all those 3D ones), but it was also a competant system for its class when in the right hands.
Once again good developers turned out some of the most cutting edge graphics to compliment great games and lazy developers didn't even attempt a lot of things because it wasn't already programmed into the hardware.
And although the other 2 systems are considered to be more successful and have more software, the Saturn by far has more titles that interest me, just like the PCE over MD/Gen & SNES/SFC.
But even just TM: Apocalypse IV and Saturn Bomberman alone make it enough of a 32-bit PCE for me. Also I love Snatcher and Policenauts fits nicely into my PCE-successor vision, let alone all the original-original content that it aso has.
To me at least, the Saturn is way more PCE than MD'ish.
Hmmm, I never thought of Saturn in that way before. That's pretty interesting!
Personally, I liked Genesis / Mega Drive (and SNES) a lot, so I always viewed Saturn as part of the Sega console lineage (haahahhahaa! I know, this is a groudnbreaking concept :) ). In fact, I hoped that Saturn would be Sega-CD "done right". The hype for Sega-CD promised so much and I really, really was looking forward to the games... but it wasn't until Saturn that I finally said, "Now you're kicking butt, Sega." Panzer Dragoon!!!!! But then it seemed like the whole Sega-CD thing happened all over again with Saturn. Granted, I had lost a lot of interest in video games by the time Sega-CD was gasping its last few breaths, so I missed a lot of stuff.