PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: missyrelm on January 03, 2008, 11:31:11 AM
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My wife and I have been wanting to get into the PC-Engine/Turbografx-16 scene.
We are planning to order a NEO PCE Super Flash Cart in a couple days. The prices of the games are so high, at least for us, that we feel like it would be taking too much of a risk not to back them up.
Now we just need to pick a system to go with it! Since the NEO PCE Super Flash Cart will play all regions, we will be pretty set as far as being able to play any region HuCard/ TurboChip games that we buy.
So what we are concerned about is being able to play PC-Engine/Turbografx-16 CD’s and back-ups of CD’s.
I’ve read a lot of people recommending the Duo-R for beginners, but we are really concerned about the sound issues that we keep reading about for all of the Duo models.
I’ve also read that they don’t like to play backups very much.
I’ve also looked into systems with the CD attachments and I am confused as to which one would be best for playing both US and Japanese CD games, as well as backups of those games.
It’s not that big of a deal if we have to buy a Arcade Card and/or Super System card separately, so we can play more of the games available.
On Ebay, I’ve seen a TurboGrafix-16 with CD and System card for around $250 + $30.00 shipping,
Or a PC-Engine White Core System w CD Turbo-Graphix-16 (Would I need a step-down converter to play it in the US? For around 250.00+$25.00 shipping
Or the Dou-R route, for $119 in Japan, with $61.00 EMS shipping
I have no idea if these are good prices or not or how well the CD attachments will play all region games and backups of our games…
Any advice?
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Back them up ehh.... You shouldn't need to back them up. They will most likely last longer then any flash cart if you treat them well.
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I'm really not concerned with backing up Hucards.
My concern is about the *cd's* only!
All I was trying to ask is if any of the various forms of the CD player will play burned CD's any better than any of the others.
In particular, we are drawn to the Duo-R because the price is lower but we are worried about the sound issues with the Duo-R CD player.
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I wouldn't worry about those problems being caused by cd-rs. Those will come about naturally due to old age. The duo-r and rx are more solid that the regular duo anyways. I would definitely suggest that you get a duo-r. All cds are region free too, so there is no worry there. Good luck and welcome to the forum :)
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I'm really not concerned with backing up Hucards.
My concern is about the *cd's* only!
All I was trying to ask is if any of the various forms of the CD player will play burned CD's any better than any of the others.
In particular, we are drawn to the Duo-R because the price is lower but we are worried about the sound issues with the Duo-R CD player.
What Turbo D said is true. The best Duo model is the RX. The R close behind it.
Any light grey-colored Duo is "better" than the black ones because sensitive components on the mainboard were moved further away from heat sources. The sound issues are caused by excessive heat drying out the capacitors over time.
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Doesn't Dean check all the caps and joints on the Duos he sells?
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Doesn't Dean check all the caps and joints on the Duos he sells?
Yes/No. I resolder all critical components and check for faulty parts. Full cap replacements are risky if unnecessary.
About the sound issues. The DuoR and RX are by far the superior systems of all the CD playing systems. I've literally had 50-100 of these go through my hands and can tell you honestly that sound issues are rare. Probably 3 of the systems I've seen have had any issue. The black Duo on the other hand, has issues with what feels to be greater than 50% of the systems these days as the time goes by.
If you want a system, unmodded, send me an e-mail. I've been considering selling some off, unmodded (which is what you want if you're going to be going the flash card route), both boxed and unboxed. Benefits to getting a system from me:
- US based
- reliable seller
- guaranteed to work at my cost
- price
- best packaging you'll find
loose DuoR: $170 shipped priority in US
boxed DuoR: $200 shipped priority in US
Sorry if this is interpreted as a sales pitch folks :oops: Can delete it if it pisses people off.
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Ha ha,nah but it should prob also be posted in the hardware or software sales thread you have so it wont get over looked on this one.
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Ha ha,nah but it should prob also be posted in the hardware or software sales thread you have so it wont get over looked on this one.
True :) But I'm not looking to blow systems out of here just yet ;)
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Do you think it is just the region-mod that interfers with the Neo cart (and I assume also the Tototek carts), and that the other mods, like S-Video, RCA, LED's, and possibly a fan would
still play nice with the NEO and Tototek flash carts?
Most of the games my wife and I are interested in are Japanese HuCards anyway, and presumably, we could find one of the extender things that let you play American TurboChips so I could play both region card without a region mod, and still be able to use either the Neo or Tototek cart...
If so, we would be very interested in a Duo-R or Duo-RX with all the mods *except* for the region mod...
PM/email sent...
If you want a system, unmodded, send me an e-mail. I've been considering selling some off, unmodded (which is what you want if you're going to be going the flash card route), both boxed and unboxed.
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Do you think it is just the region-mod that interfers with the Neo cart (and I assume also the Tototek carts), and that the other mods, like S-Video, RCA, LED's, and possibly a fan would
still play nice with the NEO and Tototek flash carts?
It's most definitely the region mod, as none of those other things affect the operation of the system itself.
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i have the dim feeling that recently the interests of copying/roming software is risen a lot in this forum. if i watch to some of the titles of recent threads, i become the feeling of being in a IS0-l33CH forum. it's kind of a pity.
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i have the dim feeling that recently the interests of copying/roming software is risen a lot in this forum. if i watch to some of the titles of recent threads, i become the feeling of being in a IS0-l33CH forum. it's kind of a pity.
Well,hey,when I posted my thoughts about that before I got slammed by a few members for it. Personally,I agree with you,I don't really like it. I can see how people want to archive the cd based stuff and use the copies over the originals,but half the time when people ask related questions,its cause they really want to just know how to burn images they got off the net.
I have no intention of getting the Flash cart. Any hu-card title I want to play I will just buy. I'd rather actually own it. It would be cool if people would look into this though as a way of producing new hu-card titles commercially using similar technology,but more retail looking,not just bare pcbs with chips and ugly flash kits with pins on the other end.
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I agree 100% with Michael and Tatsujin, but at the same time, I feel flash carts have a place.
Since I refuse to play games via emulation, flash carts allows me to play translations of Japanese games I would otherwise be stuck playing on an emulator. Not to mention Tongueman's Logic, and the numerous Turbo tech demos out there.
The funny thing is, I take such pride in my collection that I won't even load a ROM onto the flash cart that I don't own a copy of in my library (demos aside). Even in the case of the translations-- I am currently awaiting my JP copy of Bubblegum Crash to arrive in the post before I play through the English translation recently released.
Another good example of this is the game Blue Blink. I've owned the JP version forever but it's been collecting dust on the shelf. Since I got my flash cart, I loaded up a copy of the translated version and I've found a whole new realm of enjoyment in being able to play the game and actually follow the storyline. Unlike most other platformers, there is dialogue after every level in Blue Blink.
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Like nat, I bought my flash cart for translations and Tongueman's Logic. The only other thing that I've loaded on it were games that I own so I don't have to diddle with the converter as often (just for the Tennokoe Bank and Arcade Card).
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i never said something against those flash carts, and i think they're coud be really comfortable for many reasons already mentioned in here. and at last not to forget in the whole development scene, which allowes you easily and quick to test your code on the real deal.
i think we all understood the proper usage of those flashers. if not, he/she is in the wrong place here.
O:)
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i never said something against those flash carts, and i think they're coud be really comfortable for many reasons already mentioned in here. and at last not to forget in the whole development scene, which allowes you easily and quick to test your code on the real deal.
i think we all understood the proper usage of those flashers. if not, he/she is in the wrong place here.
O:)
Most people buy those obviously to play games they don't own,not to back up their originals. It enables them to play alot more stuff cheaper on the actual system without having to buy the originals,esp the expensive titles.Thats just not something I'd want to support,but can understand to a point.
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The main reason I got one was to play USA region games on a Core Grafx II without needing a mod or an expensive converter. Then to play homebrew/english game mods. Thirdly I wanted one so that I could carry multiple games with it on the go, without the need to carry a bunch of Hucards.
I sample games on my PC, using a demo of magic engine (5 min limit) to find out which ones I want to buy. Once I buy the game, I add it to the card. Without this kind of minor piracy, I would honestly buy a lot less games because I wouldn't know if they were worth the money or not.
I also have no problem playing any game I own on another console or my computer. Once you buy a game, I think you have the right to run the software, in an unmodified form, on any hardware.
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In your opinion, is it appropriate to use it for hard to come by HuCards, such as U.S. magical chase?
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In your opinion, is it appropriate to use it for hard to come by HuCards, such as U.S. magical chase?
To play the game for a day, sure. Or in my case to play it for 5 minutes a few times. Which I have. I think I am going to buy Cotton instead personally. I already have Cotton on the PSX and I love it.
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then you don't need to get the PC Engine cotton really, since on the PCE it basically is the same, just in a slightly shrunken form ;)
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then you don't need to get the PC Engine cotton really, since on the PCE it basically is the same, just in a slightly shrunken form ;)
I think I still want to own it on the PC-E eventually. Getting it for the PSX was a compromise at the time since I owned a PSX and didn't own a PC-E.
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then you don't need to get the PC Engine cotton really, since on the PCE it basically is the same, just in a slightly shrunken form ;)
I think I still want to own it on the PC-E eventually. Getting it for the PSX was a compromise at the time since I owned a PSX and didn't own a PC-E.
that's the very right attitude i always appreciate a lot :)
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I want to apologize for how obnoxious I made the title and content of my original post to this thread. It’s more than a little embarrassing. Not quite the first impression I was hoping to make. I didn’t want to get into this originally but at this point I feel the need to explain myself.
I am *VERY* new to the scene here and did not understand how that was going to come across. The Subject line basically suggests that I would use a PC-Engine or Duo-R purely to play downloaded ROMS and even play CD images that might damage a perfectly good Duo-R instead of buying any of the original games.
This is not the case.
The truth was that I made that original post the same night I first even heard about Flash-Carts. I didn’t know that anything like that even existed. I got over-excited about it for about a day or two, and my original post shows this, but it is NOT reflective of how I really operate. That attitude lasted about a day and a half. Then I got over it and came back to my senses!
I am blessed to have a wife who likes to play retro games with me. We only play co-op games together with only a few exceptions, and we pick old systems based on what co-op games are made for it, namely the NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn. But the PC-Engine would be a very nice addition indeed as while it doesn’t have the most co-op games, but the ones we know of, are pretty weird and interesting!
We’ve never used an emulator ever, and while someday I might try one, neither of us are particularly interested in emulators.
I downloaded some ROMS that same night I first heard of the carts and started this thread, but I’ve honestly never used them yet, partially out of laziness because I don’t want to take the time to learn about how to run an emulator but mostly for some reason we just don’t like the idea of an emulator. We just love the actual consoles way too much!
We love the actual machines and just really don’t want to get started emulating the games…
We’ve gotten pretty much all of the systems that have a variety of co-op games along with *only* real games we want except for the PC-Engine, because both the system and the games are out of our price league.
But the PC-Engine games we’ve watched on Youtube have been her absolute favorite.
So…. I was naturally excited about some of these $100-1000 games suddenly being within our reach, not to mention some of the few fan-subbed translations out there..
We do plan on getting a Duo-R we can’t afford and a Flash Cart that we can’t afford. But we don’t plan on using the Flash cart only. We will also get real games we can’t afford too! Ethics aside, we LOVE the cool HuCards and there’s nothing like the real thing!
But honestly I don’t see how someone can get a feel for whether or not they want to spend $200-$1000 on a game without actually playing it for more than 5 minutes or even just for one day like some people claim to do.
Or why we should pay over $100.00 for a 1-player game that we just want to check out for an hour or two out of curiousity when we only really play co-ops.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to for us to try out a game for a while, and if we like the way it plays co-op, then save up and buy it, and if we don’t like it, why buy it because then we won’t be playing the game anymore anyway. Try and find old games reviewed strictly on co-op play and you’ll see what we mean. Even the Youtube videos mostly only show 1-player play.
And I guess we are just stubborn but we don’t want to mess with emulators, at least not yet anyway. . I also don’t really feel like its unethical to play a downloaded rom over a period of time while saving up the money to play the real game. I guess everyone has to draw that ethical line somewhere.
Honestly, this way will allow us to buy WAY more games. Also influencing our friends to buy real games. It’s just easier to justify the cost of one of these expensive games when we know we are going to be actually playing it a lot.
It’s already an ethical grey area because none of the money goes to anyone involved in the making and selling of the game, not any at all. Usually it all goes to some Ebay seller who wasn’t involved in the making or marketing of the game in any way.
It’s just not the same as downloading roms for a Wii or Xbox 360, Ps3 or even a Xbox, Gamecube or PS2 because you can still rent games for those at the video store if you want to try them out. I find that unethical and the old mantra “if you can’t afford it then don’t get it” makes more sense for these systems. But for the old, unsupported systems this really stops making sense.
As for the CD’s, I’d like to redirect this thread to them because there is *VERY* little information on how to be the easiest on a Duo-R or the many variations of the CD-player with CD-R’s. And I’ve read a LOT of threads on a lot of different forums on the subject.
The problem seems to be wear and tear on old systems. Any CD causes wear and tear but it seems that CD-R’s seems to cause more wear and tear than other CD’s.
It’s important because there are a LOT of very valid reasons to honestly Rip and backup PC-engine CD games that one owns. My wife and I are pack-rats, and I just know that we’d find a way to scratch or step-on or otherwise ruin really expensive CD games, so to save them from ourselves its better for us to play backups than to risk the originals that we plan on buying.
Some of the original CD’s are cheaper on Ebay if they are scratched but still play. In this case wouldn’t the original CD possibly damage the player more than a back-up?
Some people say never to play CD-R’s at all and to only play the original CD’s, but this is one extreme.
On the other exetreme, other people say there’s no problems with CD-R’s at all because its they are old CD players and will give out about the same time as they would without playing CD-R’s.
And still other people say that REAL back-ups won’t hurt the consoles but downloaded ROMs will because the code is different on the ROM’s and made for emulators. This makes partial sense but it would seem like any properly Ripped ROMs with TurborRip (is this the right name?) would work fine by this logic.
So it would be good for people to know the safest way to back-up their expensive Pc-Engine CD’s and if some people use that knowledge to just pirate games, well that’s just something that can’t be helped.
While there are some threads about the basics of making back-up copies of CD games for the Pc-Engine, a lot seem to not explain how to lessen the damage on the PC-Engine Cd’s or Duo-R’s old, sensitive CD-players. And what’s sad is I think that the people with this knowledge are leering of spreading it around because they don’t want to encourage piracy. I find this sad.
In particular its hard to get the following information without just being told to “play the original disk”:
1) Is it really true that if you back-up your own CD games with Turbo-rip, there will be less stress on your CD player than if you download a ROM, whether the ROM was made with Turbo-rip or not?
2) If you intend to rip your CD-games and then to just play the back-ups to preserve the original games, would it be better to use the Super CDROM add-on or will a Duo-R be just fine?
3) Some people say just use really high quality cd’s like Taiyo-Yuden brand
and use a high quality CD-burner and if possible burn at 1x or 2x.
This doesn’t make any sense. Modern High-quality media doesn’t support low speeds like 1x or 2x, and neither do any modern high quality CD-burner.
So that means either
a) Buy a really old used CD burner and somehow find a way to drive it using your current operating system, and then buy old media to burn onto with.
b) Try to figure out what modern CD burner plays nice with the PC-Engine CD’s,
And what speeds work the best (I’ve seen some people say 4x, other people insist on 8x with a specific CD brand I can’t remember at the moment, others have said speeds even higher. There’s virtually nothing out there as to what are the best CD-burners for the delicate old CD-players like the PC-Engine’s CD players.
c) Try to figure out what media to use. Is it better to just get High Quality CD’s like Taiyo-Yuden, or does it make more since to buy one of the super-high reflectivity CD’s like diamond silver?
Assuming that there are loads of people who are honestly backing up their own games or are only downloading roms to decide what games to buy or to play English translations and such, it seems like we should help inform people how to cause the least amount of wear and tear on these old, delicate machines. And if some snot-nosed kids use the information to download pirated material on their virus ridden machines on their way to surf some porn benefit from the information, than that’s an unfortunate side-effect, but not a good reason to not try to figure out the safest way for honest users to play their backed-up games or even to try out downloaded roms to decide what to buy.
But anyway, just for the record, we DO agree that its wrong to just download ROMS to pirate games with no intention to ever buy the games, ever.
Again I apologize for the obnoxiosnus of my original post and especially the subject line, and I swear it was temporary insanity! I’m rather embarrassed by my original post, but oh well, that’s life…
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no need to apologize dude :) I've downloaded all the pcengine roms available 8) I play them either on MagicEngine emulator or on my 64mb neoflash. I also back up my cd games. I just use nero and a current generation burner. I haven't had any problems as my duo is pretty tough( not like my dead snes, lol). Turbo rip works good too, but I don't use it. I like nero better. I would recommend you to acquire a super cool duo-r and have a good time with multi-player games. Also, I wouldn't buy a $100 game if I didn't know what I was getting into.
http://www.magicengine.com/uk_index.php?sessid=ojh0B90KVE_03_aB_rlSowWTwwSg
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Settle down Ranty McRanterson. There's few members here that haven't pirated some roms, isos, mp3s, or whatever, so there's no need to apologize. :D
Let me try to answer some of your questions:
1) Is it really true that if you back-up your own CD games with Turbo-rip, there will be less stress on your CD player than if you download a ROM, whether the ROM was made with Turbo-rip or not?
No. A good rip will be the least stressful, and a downloaded iso isn't necessarily a bad rip and doing it yourself doesn't guarantee a good rip.
2) If you intend to rip your CD-games and then to just play the back-ups to preserve the original games, would it be better to use the Super CDROM add-on or will a Duo-R be just fine?
It doesn't really matter, except for piece of mind reasons. Replacement laser assemblies are readily available for the Duos, but I don't think that a reliable source has been found for the Super CDROMs.
3) Some people say just use really high quality cd’s like Taiyo-Yuden brand
and use a high quality CD-burner and if possible burn at 1x or 2x.
This doesn’t make any sense. Modern High-quality media doesn’t support low speeds like 1x or 2x, and neither do any modern high quality CD-burner.
So that means either
a) Buy a really old used CD burner and somehow find a way to drive it using your current operating system, and then buy old media to burn onto with.
b) Try to figure out what modern CD burner plays nice with the PC-Engine CD’s,
And what speeds work the best (I’ve seen some people say 4x, other people insist on 8x with a specific CD brand I can’t remember at the moment, others have said speeds even higher. There’s virtually nothing out there as to what are the best CD-burners for the delicate old CD-players like the PC-Engine’s CD players.
c) Try to figure out what media to use. Is it better to just get High Quality CD’s like Taiyo-Yuden, or does it make more since to buy one of the super-high reflectivity CD’s like diamond silver?
It doesn't make sense because there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to Duos and CDRs. Some Duos will play anything, some will play nothing (like mine), and the rest are somewhere between the two extremes. The only universal advice that can be given is to use high quality media, burn as slow as possible, and use a correct rip (verify the TOC). Beyond that, trial and error is the only way to find what media and speeds a particular Duo will tolerate.
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Settle down Ranty McRanterson. There's few members here that haven't pirated some
My wife and I laughed our asses off at "Ranty McRanterson". I think my wife now has a new nickname for me.... :)
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But honestly I don’t see how someone can get a feel for whether or not they want to spend $200-$1000 on a game without actually playing it for more than 5 minutes or even just for one day like some people claim to do.
Or why we should pay over $100.00 for a 1-player game that we just want to check out for an hour or two out of curiousity when we only really play co-ops.
I can't think of any pc-engine titles that go for anywhere near 1000 that aren't "special" versions that I'd want to play- let alone that even exist.
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Well I figured I'd do a quick search on Yahoo Japan Auctions to make sure I wasn't mistaken and found this right away:
http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/105307239
According to Google, 85,000 Japanese yen = $779.45 U.S. dollars at today's conversion rates not counting cost of a deputy service if you don't live in Japan and shipping both within Japan and to wherever one lives and its still got 4 days on it so it could go higher.
I did searches for Darius on ebay and found stuff more like $30.00, but I don't know enough yet about these games or enough (read "any") Japanese to know why the price is so high. All I know is that I have seen high prices for PC-Engine games, I don't know enough about all the rare games to know if these are reasonable prices, so I was just saying that I've seen a wide range of prices.
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing if I knew how to search completed listings on yahoo japan Auctions, I could find several example of games going for the equivalent of $1000.00 US dollars in yen.
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thats the most expensive pc engine game(that I know of :x). Its a boss only version of darius plus. Its also unlockable in darius plus. darius alpha is more of a collectors item.
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I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing if I knew how to search completed listings on yahoo japan Auctions, I could find several example of games going for the equivalent of $1000.00 US dollars in yen.
Like turbo D said, Darius alpha is more of a collector's item than anything else. If you want to see a really expensive game (er, collector's item), then try to find a copy of Power League All Star or Youkai Douchuuki Gold - either one will run you 200,000+ yen.
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So I was off with the range I said, I did say that I'm new to the scene and I don't know all the prices exactly I was just guessing really - I know that there are $1000 games out there for at least some systems, along with seeing high prices on Yahoo Auctions and not knowing which are collectors items and which aren't.
All I was trying to say is that there are a lot of Pc-engine titles that are not cheap esp if you want more than one or two titles for your collection! The exact prices wasn't really the point. The point was that they are expensive enough to justify trying them out for a while to pick and choose which games to buy.
BTW - Thanks Necromancer, for answering the questions about the CD's. That really helped out a lot!
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I'd start by getting the must-have games that ARE cheap- for which there are tons. I have 162 games and off the top of my head I can only think of two that were slightly over 100 bucks- and those two were definitely worth it- Dracula X and Dungeon Explorer II. Not that there aren't more games that I want that are costly- there certainly are- but of the ones that I feel I eventually NEED to have- it is a small number. Maybe we should start a "bang for the buck" thread- if there isn't one already.
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A "bang for the buck" thread would be awesome, but I don't think "under $100" is an appropriate threshold. I'm sorry, but I've never felt like I've played $100 worth of gaming goodness. I think $20 and under or $25 and under would be more appropriate to start with.
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agreed. I'll start up a thread now.
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http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4403.0