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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: handygrafx on January 22, 2008, 12:16:39 PM
Title: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 22, 2008, 12:16:39 PM
My favorite TurboGrafx-16 game has always been Military Madness. This thread will be for old reviews & comments from around the time it came out: late 1989 in Japan, early 1990 in the U.S.
I just got Military Madness for the TG16 last night. It's a super-duper war game - all strategy, no arcade action at all. The main map where you see all the pieces has the usual slick graphics, but the interesting part is the close up when attacking. You get to see the armies shooting it out, and the graphics are very well done.
There are over two dozen different types of weapons/units, making the game very difficult - it's definitely not for the casual player! There are even "man" pages! If you're into war games, I highly recommend it. One thing that's really lame is that the opposing armies are green and blue, and the particular shades used are very difficult to tell apart; any other two colors would have been ok, even black and white! I wonder how this color combination ever managed to survive development?
With 32 levels of increasing difficulty, I think it'll keep me busy for a long, long time. Oh yeah - price was $55.
Military Madness is one of the best games for the Turbo. Pick it up, even if you're not a wargamer this one will appeal. The graphics are well done, and the game play is excellent. Each of the 32 levels gets harder than the last, so even the most ardent gamer will take weeks of non-stop play to finish.
Title: Military Madness Type: Strategy Platform(s): TGX-16 Price: 54.99
One word describes this game perfectly: Awesome. One word can also describe the people who play this game: addicts. If anyone has any doubts as to what game to buy first for the TurboGrafx-16 my recommendation is to get this one before anything else. I am NOT biased towards strategy games as this statement would suggest, but I do LOVE this game!
My preferences seem to be towards RPG type games and mindless shooters, but I consider myself a well rounded gamer (I play just about every type of game there is). Military Madness is one of the best strategy games I've ever played. Basically the scenario goes like this: The AXIS empire has built a super weapon and plans to use it to conquer earth. To save the earth you must command your forces through sixteen maps until you reach the final map in which you can capture the weapon and destroy it. The maps are very easy at first if you are used to strategy games, but even the most experienced will have trouble with the later ones. Once you finish the first sixteen scenarios you will see the game ending. You will then be put into the advanced stages. The advanced stages are another sixteen maps that are identical to the first sixteen. The only difference here is that both you and the enemy have better weapons to use very early. The initial positions of your forces and the AXIS forces are also different.
Graphically, this is not the best of all TGX games but it is excellent considering that this is a strategy game. Your units are represented as small icons. When there is combat the game zooms closer to the combat field. The opposing units are now really detailed and the battle is graphically displayed. This is a pretty nice effect, since you can see what's going on instead of just viewing the results of a battle.
The sounds to this game are fair. Pretty much what one would expect from a strategy game. It'd be unfair to include this in the ratings, so I'll exclude it this time.
The game play for this game is the BEST! If you like war games you'll love Military Madness! There are several strategies that you have to learn, besides how to move your troops. Surround effect, support effect, and other things that determine the result of an encounter are all vividly explained in the online manual so that it's easy to get started. To play this game you basically move your units around the field of battle in an attempt to wipe out the enemy or capture a factory. Factories can either be neutral, yours or the enemy's. They usually contain units which you can use if you control that factory. Factories also repair damaged units. To win the game you must wipe out all the enemy units or capture their prison camp. Sounds simple, but with 32 maps to conquer and a fairly decent computer opponent you'll have many a sleepless night trying to beat this one!
Overall this game is a must get for anyone owning the TGX-16. The playability is by far the best in any TurboGrafx game so far and it is also one of the more challenging games. Well worth every penny you spend!
Yes! I second the motion that Military Madness is the best TG16 game to date (and yes, I've finished Ys).
I would only add that the sound is encoded in Dolby Surround. If you don't have a four-speaker dolby surround system, you are missing quite a bit. I played it for a long time before I hooked it up to my surround system, and was stunned by the improvement. I also tried out Axe and Devil's Crush, but unfortunately those did not improve when hooked up to a dolby decoder.
I've finished Military Madness all the way through twice, and now when I play I like to let the computer get all the neutral factories so I can try to hold with only what I started with. Makes it a lot more challenging! Hopefully Super Daisenryaku will be out (in English) pretty soon for other Military Madness addicts like myself.
--Neil W.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: MissaFX on January 22, 2008, 12:32:55 PM
16 bit sound? 16 bit sound? The PC-E has 16 bit sound?
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: nat on January 22, 2008, 12:39:58 PM
16 bit sound? 16 bit sound? The PC-E has 16 bit sound?
Sure, why not? What does "16-bit sound" even mean?
To me it means the sound is either made up of 16bit samples or the D/A converter is 16bit.
"16-bit" was the term used to describe the TG-16/Genesis/SNES generation back in the day.
By "16-bit sound" they meant that the games sounds cool and different from the previous generation.
The Intellivision has a 16-bit cpu, but that doesn't make it more of a real "16-bit" console than the TG-16.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: nat on January 22, 2008, 01:33:59 PM
Exactly what I was getting at.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 22, 2008, 02:32:06 PM
What about the guy in that usenet post that claimed MM had surround sound ? I wonder if he's right...Yet how could that be?? Unless it's some software sound trick.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: spenoza on January 22, 2008, 02:33:50 PM
Or just a surround sound stereo "enhancing" the sound for him.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: ceti alpha on January 22, 2008, 02:34:09 PM
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The Intellivision has a 16-bit cpu, but that doesn't make it more of a real "16-bit" console than the TG-16.
Interesting, I didn't know the Intellivision was more advanced than the PCE/Turbo. I'm going to switch to the Intellivision forums. :P Seriously though, I'm glad EGM and GamePro didn't know this back in the day. The minute it "came out" that the Turbo only had an 8bit CPU the Turbo became a pariah in the console wars. They would have had a field day saying shit like, "If you're looking for a real 16-bit system you're better off getting the Intellivision. The sound may actually suck, but at least it's 16 bit."
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: Necromancer on January 22, 2008, 04:12:59 PM
Nice little blast from the past - thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 22, 2008, 06:20:47 PM
Nice little blast from the past - thanks for sharing.
Welcome. As I find more stuff worth reading, I'll post it.
As for the sound quality in Nectaris ~ Military Madness, you can experience somewhat better sound & music in the Windows 95 port of Nectaris released in Japan which is freeware ^__^get it here! (http://nfggames.com/games/nectaris/Nectaris_Win95.rar) You'll need WinRAR. You might have to try a few times before it properly installs (no english). Once you do though, you'll be treated to Nectaris as it was on the PCE but with better audio as I said, and, mouse support which makes playing it a joy.
While the audio is nothing to get excited about, if for some reason you are a raving Nectaris fan who needs to hear better sound than what you hear in Nectaris/Military Madness on PCE, TG16, Turbo Duo Neo Nectaris ( the original was included in NN) and Wii VC, then download the PC version.
Or, have even more fun by hunting down the incredibly rare Sharp X68000 version-- It might be easier to find the ROM and an emulator for that, though. I used to have the ROM but lost it when my old HDD died a sad death.
So with the Win95 PC Nectaris you now have "16-bit quality sound" or something like that, not a technical definition. I guess it sounds more like what you would hear on a 16-bit console or computer with FM Synth.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: Black Tiger on January 23, 2008, 12:28:54 AM
Quote
Or, have even more fun by hunting down the incredibly rare Sharp X68000 version-- It might be easier to find the ROM and an emulator for that, though. I used to have the ROM but lost it when my old HDD died a sad death.
Unfortunately, you'd probably have more luck tracking down a physical copy of the X68000 version.
Quote
So with the Win95 PC Nectaris you now have "16-bit quality sound" or something like that, not a technical definition. I guess it sounds more like what you would hear on a 16-bit console or computer with FM Synth.
Or an 8-bit console with fm synth. :wink:
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: MissaFX on January 23, 2008, 06:08:03 AM
Quote from: ceti alpha
"If you're looking for a real 16-bit system you're better off getting the Intellivision. The sound may actually suck, but at least it's 16 bit."
I'm 99% sure though it only operates on 12bit code.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: nat on January 23, 2008, 06:22:29 AM
Trying to classify sound by "bits" is a ridiculous concept.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: Necromancer on January 23, 2008, 07:28:06 AM
I'm 99% sure though it only operates on 12bit code.
16 bit internal registers and 10 bit instructions, I believe. Didn't you love the little clicky wheel thingy (sorry for the technical jargon)? People call Apple innovative; they're wrong.
I'm 99% sure though it only operates on 12bit code.
16 bit internal registers and 10 bit instructions, I believe. Didn't you love the little clicky wheel thingy (sorry for the technical jargon)? People call Apple innovative; they're wrong.
Or, have even more fun by hunting down the incredibly rare Sharp X68000 version-- It might be easier to find the ROM and an emulator for that, though. I used to have the ROM but lost it when my old HDD died a sad death.
Unfortunately, you'd probably have more luck tracking down a physical copy of the X68000 version.
Is the ROM that hard to find? I found it 3-4 years ago without a huge amount of effort.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: Black Tiger on January 23, 2008, 11:47:40 AM
Or, have even more fun by hunting down the incredibly rare Sharp X68000 version-- It might be easier to find the ROM and an emulator for that, though. I used to have the ROM but lost it when my old HDD died a sad death.
Unfortunately, you'd probably have more luck tracking down a physical copy of the X68000 version.
Is the ROM that hard to find? I found it 3-4 years ago without a huge amount of effort.
Yeah, I actually did put some real effort into looking for it for a while, but am also not the savviest internet surfer.
I know that Stevek666 who runs the ultimate Military Madness site wasn't able to track it down either.
If you still have it or know where to find it, could you please point us in the right direction(discretely :wink:).
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 24, 2008, 04:02:12 PM
If I do find the Nectaris X68000 ROM again I will most certainly find a way of telling you how to get it.... If not I'll just send it to you myself. It's possible the first and only time I found it was on IRC (there are IRC channels dedicated to d/ling roms).
edit: I found it!
email sent.
omg that was funny! I found the it in less than 5 minutes of searching, even easier than last time. Last time took HOURS and HOURS, lol!
Ooooohhh man I've forgotten, the music seems even more improved over the PCE/TG16 original than the Win95 port is.
BTW I'm using WinX68k HighSpeed v0.95.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: spenoza on January 25, 2008, 06:48:25 AM
YEah, you just need to host this sucker :)
Or, if someone wants to, they could translate the Windows version.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 25, 2008, 08:15:32 AM
Or, if someone wants to, they could translate the Windows version.
They could. Although thankfully Nectaris is completely playable without translation. There's really no text that's needed to be understood, provided one is already familiar with the game of course.
What *does* need translating however, is Neo Nectaris on SCD. It's got cutscenes and things about the units I don't understand. English translated is badly needed.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: esteban on January 25, 2008, 11:39:40 PM
Ha! This thread explains the emails I recently received :), thanks for the info, handygrafx.
The Freeware Windows version is really nice because you can use a MOUSE!
Have any of you folks tried the German Nectaris? A friend in Germany actually bought the game for me years ago but teases me by sending pictures of it on a bookshelf in his apartment. He'll be visiting in a few weeks, I should ask him to bring it!
One of the developers of the German game actually contacted me a few years ago, as did one of the sprite / map artists. I asked them a bunch of questions and got some neat information.
Or, if someone wants to, they could translate the Windows version.
They could. Although thankfully Nectaris is completely playable without translation. There's really no text that's needed to be understood, provided one is already familiar with the game of course.
What *does* need translating however, is Neo Nectaris on SCD. It's got cutscenes and things about the units I don't understand. English translated is badly needed.
Years ago I asked a few folks to translate the cinema scenes from Neo Nectaris. I don't think they made any significant progress, though, and I can't remember any details.
There were a bunch of things I wanted to add to the website but I lost when my old laptop died (I tried rescuing the hardddrive, but fire damaged it). One person was trying to figure out the formula (for battles) used in MM, and they had worked out a lot of things. Plus, my discussions with the German folks who I mentioned earlier. Oh well.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 26, 2008, 11:55:31 AM
Ha! This thread explains the emails I recently received :), thanks for the info, handygrafx.
Yep! You're welcome. If that Neo Nectaris article is too blurry let me know, I'll try to get you a better pic.
Quote
The Freeware Windows version is really nice because you can use a MOUSE!
Yeah I LOVE that feature. I like being able to use the mouse in the Windows and X68000 versions. I also like sitting across the room, wireless, using the Wii Remote to play the Virtual Console emulation of TG16 MM.
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Have any of you folks tried the German Nectaris? A friend in Germany actually bought the game for me years ago but teases me by sending pictures of it on a bookshelf in his apartment. He'll be visiting in a few weeks, I should ask him to bring it!
Thanks to your outstanding website I learned of the existance of German Nectaris, but no I have not played it yet. Looks REALLY interesting though. My lack of understanding of how to run DOS properly is an obstacle for me. Perhaps one day I might get around to learning, so I can learn to play this European take on the Japanese masterpiece, heh.
Quote
One of the developers of the German game actually contacted me a few years ago, as did one of the sprite / map artists. I asked them a bunch of questions and got some neat information.
So cool! What do you think of the gameplay of the German Nectaris ? I gotta to re-read that segment of your website too.
Quote
Years ago I asked a few folks to translate the cinema scenes from Neo Nectaris. I don't think they made any significant progress, though, and I can't remember any details.
There were a bunch of things I wanted to add to the website but I lost when my old laptop died (I tried rescuing the hardddrive, but fire damaged it). One person was trying to figure out the formula (for battles) used in MM, and they had worked out a lot of things. Plus, my discussions with the German folks who I mentioned earlier. Oh well.
Arghh! Man that must have been heartbreaking :/
The Nectaris/MM formula seems so unique. There really are no games like it from what I've seen & played. Even the games that are closest, like the Battle Isle and Advance Wars games, still don't feel anything like Hudson's masterpiece.
I'm dying for a new Nectaris game created for DS, Wii or both. The PS1 version was so disappointing. In 2006 there was word of a new PSP Nectaris, but that never happened. R-Type Tactics did though. I heard it's not that great, but not terrible either.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 26, 2008, 12:30:03 PM
confusing stuff below - I can't keep these games or series straight.....
Didn't Hudson work on an N64 game in the Wars (Famicom Wars / Nintendo Wars ) series that never came out? '64Wars' I think it was. Part of the long-running Daisenryaku series that actually pre-dates Nectaris by at least a year. edit: Boy did I screw that one up. The two series are not related AFAIK. Daisenryaku dates back to at least 1986 on one of the Japanese computers (MSX or MSX2), and Famicom Wars came out in 1988.
edit: yes indeed it was being developed by Hudson, not Intelligent Systems. Found a bunch of screens http://gilgalegrouik.free.fr/index.php?level=album&id=1 I've never seen more than two samll screen before.
There was also, another unreleased, turn-based strategy game for N64, Ultimate War(s), which may or may not have been related to the Daisenryaku series (edit: it was) http://ign64.ign.com/objects/013/013209.html The 3D battles look somewhat better than those of PS1 Nectaris. I think Ultimate Wars may have been better than the more recent Daisenryaku game for Xbox.
It's kinda confusing, at least for me. The Daisenryaku games is a huge series spanning 2 decades and many platforms-- Weren't they sometimes called Wars also? Then the Wars (edit: Nintendo Wars) series that includes Advance Wars. Man I'm not clear on where those two unreleased N64 games fit. From what I've researched (and im still all confused, lol) it seems 64Wars was a game that was part of the Nintendo Wars series AND the Daisenryaku series. (maybe the Nintendo Daisenryaku games ARE Nintendo Wars games, someone help me lol )
I was not really thrilled with Daisenryaku VII: Modern Military Tactics on Xbox. I didn't really spend enough time with it, to be fair. I'm not that knowledgeable on the games of this massive series. That said, I did own & finish Iron Storm on Saturn (good game but not as addictive as Nectaris...nothing is!) and I've tried some of the SFC & MD games.
edit: So the closest game on MegaDrive to Nectaris/MM would not be Herzog Zwei (a radically different early RTS effort) but Super Daisenryaku (1989?) and/or Advanced Daisenryaku (1991). Neither of them are as fast or fun as Nectaris, yet perhaps they do have more depth.
Please excuse this MESS of a post, what a disaster. :lol: I've tried to edit it as best as I can (not good).
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: m1savage on January 26, 2008, 03:36:17 PM
Daisenryaku VII: Modern Military Tactics on Xbox is freakin awesome. I just need an extra two or three hundred free hours a week someday so I can fully get into it. :D
Military Madness still remains as one of my favorite TG16 games. Hall of fame material for sure.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 26, 2008, 07:10:44 PM
Daisenryaku VII: Modern Military Tactics on Xbox is freakin awesome. I just need an extra two or three hundred free hours a week someday so I can fully get into it. :D
I too wish I had the time to really get into that one, and the 50 million other Daisenryaku games.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: esteban on January 27, 2008, 02:12:07 AM
Daisenryaku VII: Modern Military Tactics on Xbox is freakin awesome. I just need an extra two or three hundred free hours a week someday so I can fully get into it. :D
I too wish I had the time to really get into that one, and the 50 million other Daisenryaku games.
Ha! I know. I bought a GBA Daisenryaku years ago with the hopes that I could play it whilst commuting. Well, that plan would have worked, if it weren't for the horrible screen on the GBA (this is before the backlit screens were introduced). I still haven't invested in a new GBA, but when I do...
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: esteban on January 27, 2008, 02:21:43 AM
confusing stuff below - I can't keep these games or series straight.....
Please excuse this MESS of a post, what a disaster. :lol: I've tried to edit it as best as I can (not good).
No problem! I remember trying to figure this out a few years ago. As I understood it, Famicom Wars was started by some non-Hudson development group, then published by Nintendo. Of course, considering how close Hudson and Nintendo were in the early days of the Famicom, there is a chance that there is some "connection" (i.e. personnel) or outright "borrowing of ideas" between the Famicom Wars and Nectaris.
Officially, though, we have to think of Nectaris and FW as having separate, distinct lineages.
I have the Famicom Wars Guide Book (color cover, but I can't remember if the pages are b/w or color).
It is confusing... Battle Isle totally borrowed from Nectaris, I'd love to hear about how the developers were playing Nectaris! That would be awesome :).
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 27, 2008, 09:26:41 AM
confusing stuff below - I can't keep these games or series straight.....
Please excuse this MESS of a post, what a disaster. :lol: I've tried to edit it as best as I can (not good).
No problem! I remember trying to figure this out a few years ago. As I understood it, Famicom Wars was started by some non-Hudson development group, then published by Nintendo.
Indeed, Famicom Wars (part of the Nintendo Wars series) was developed by Intelligent Systems, and Advance Wars is a subset of this series.
Quote
Of course, considering how close Hudson and Nintendo were in the early days of the Famicom, there is a chance that there is some "connection" (i.e. personnel) or outright "borrowing of ideas" between the Famicom Wars and Nectaris.
Officially, though, we have to think of Nectaris and FW as having separate, distinct lineages.[/
Yup, it seems so. The never-released 64Wars for Nintendo 64 was being developed by Hudson even though it's part of the Nintendo Wars series (Hudson developed the GameBoy Wars games) and may have connections to the Daisenryaku series also.
Ultimate War (http://gilgalegrouik.free.fr/index.php?level=search&searchterms=ultimate), the other canceled Nintendo 64 game, is part of the Daisenryaku series. It was being developed by Seta instead of SystemSoft, the creator of Daisenryaku.
Interestingly as we know, SystemSoft is the developer who ported Nectaris to the X68000 and NEC PC 9800.
The lines between these 3 series seem to blur with the unreleased 64Wars 1.) Intelligent Systems/Nintendo franchise (confirmed) 2.) developed by Hudson, creator of Nectaris (confirmed) 3.) possible connection to Daisenryaku (not confirmed)
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: Joe Redifer on January 27, 2008, 12:49:13 PM
Herzog Zwei was an RTS. Military Madness is turned based, isn't it? Either way it isn't an RTS so I don't really consider the two similar. Instead look at Master of Monsters on the Genesis. It is far more similar.
As far as the Dolby Surround Sound goes, it should be fairly easy to fake it. I'm not sure the Genesis can do it, but the Turbo might since all 6 of their sound channels are identical, are they not? Anyway the only thing you need to do in order to get sound out of the back speakers is take a mono sound and make one side out of phase with the other when played back over a stereo output. Unfortunately this would take two sound channels for one sound coming out of the back when it would only take one channel to play it through the right, left or center speakers. I think the surround sound thing is accidental and the person who wrote that was just hearing sounds leaked into the back speakers. It happens all the time on non-encoded stuff. Matrixing sound is very tricky and far from perfect.
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: spenoza on January 27, 2008, 03:09:32 PM
It wouldn't be hard, probably, to create pre-programmed surround with, as you say, only half the available channels as a result. But trying to get the system to dynamically decide which sounds are where and then do the timing on the fly would waste a lot of CPU cycles. That kind of work is better suited to a DSP. Further, surround sound is much more useful for 3D games, IMO. Why do you need to know what's behind the player when left and right pretty much represent the spectrum of sound locations quite well?
Title: Re: Military Madness reviews & comments from when it was new (1989-1990)
Post by: handygrafx on January 27, 2008, 05:11:36 PM
Herzog Zwei on Genesis is only compared to Military Madness on TG16 because they came out at the same time (within no more than a few months of each other) and were the only strategy games out on those consoles in the U.S. in 1990. In Japan the Mega Drive got Super Daisenryaku in 1989 and Advanced Daisenryaku in 1990. They're turned based hexagonal strategy games, much more comparable to MM.