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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 10, 2008, 07:21:07 AM
Title: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 10, 2008, 07:21:07 AM
Legend has it that there was a TurboGrafx-16 released in European countries. I have not yet confirmed its existance, since some sources have stated that it was only released in the US, while a few others had said it was released all around the world. In ScrewAttack's Video Game Vault on Bonk's Adventure, however, the TurboGrafx-16 system that was featured in it appears differently from a regular US one. The logo on in only says "TurboGrafx" in just white letters, while there are red and blue dash lines underneath. Although its lighter color may mostly be due to a camera flash, it still appears to be a lighter gray judgeing from the darker areas of the picture. The TurboPad, which appears later in the video, has the same color scheme for the logo and the covering of the controller itself. However, in the top center, the marking in that portion has a squiggled symbol perceding the "TurboGrafx" letters. It may be possible that this is a modified system, but as I have never seen another TurboGrafx-16 system simliar to this, I cannot say exactly what it is.
http://www.screwattack.com/archive/VGV/Bonk.html
I am wondering what this system is. Could it be the European system, or possibly a modified console?
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 10, 2008, 07:26:15 AM
Yeah, that's the TurboGrafx that was released in Europe, as you suspect.
Differences: plastic color, logo color, the absence of the "-16" after the system name, and PAL video output (instead of NTSC).
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 10, 2008, 07:33:46 AM
Actually I think it just contains some extra video encoder to turn the NTSC into PAL. That'd have to look pretty bad. I hope it at least took the RGB and turned that into PAL vs the actual composite NTSC feed.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: awack on February 10, 2008, 07:43:42 AM
Its as if they shipped a plane load of them to Europe and stored them in a warehouse and forgot about them, so its believed they were never officially released which is why you can find them brand new pretty easily, just go to ebay.uk and I'm sure there will be at least one new one on there.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 10, 2008, 09:50:46 AM
Yeah, that's the TurboGrafx that was released in Europe, as you suspect.
Differences: plastic color, logo color, the absence of the "-16" after the system name, and PAL video output (instead of NTSC).
Thanks, Nat! So, they were available in Europe after all. Now, I wonder how those two pictures were obtained? Sure, they may have been from the best picture results they can find, but its strange to see ScrewAttack display a European console when they are from Dallas, Texas. Then again, they do have a ScrewAttack Europe foundation...
Which games were available in Europe for this system, also? I can expect most of the titles released in the US to come there, but I wonder if some PC Engine titles were released in that country, also? Speaking of these, I'm hoping that ScrewAttack will be able to launch more Video Game Vaults on TurboGrafx-16 titles. I've been waiting for them to do so for a while :pray:.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 10, 2008, 10:04:11 AM
The game library for the European version is the same as the library for the US TurboGrafx line. The same carts play on both European and American TurboGrafx consoles.
The pack-in game with the European TurboGrafx was Blazing Lazers instead of Keith Courage, though.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 10, 2008, 10:06:51 AM
Quote
Thanks, Nat! So, they were available in Europe after all. Now, I wonder how those two pictures were obtained? Sure, they may have been from the best picture results they can find, but its strange to see ScrewAttack display a European console when they are from Dallas, Texas. Then again, they do have a ScrewAttack Europe foundation...
People are known to collect pointless things. If there are Japanese collectors with PAL Turbos (which is totally pointless), then I'm sure some American has one.
I have both US, and JP modems, keyboards, and mice for the Sega Saturn. Why? Not sure. I've literally never used the JP modem, and I'm not sure I ever will.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 10, 2008, 12:43:11 PM
One of my unfinished projects is a detailed breakdown of the PAL TurboGrafx. When I got it, I photographed everything as I took it apart. I also took pics of the North American TG-16, both of them together, etc.
Aside from the cosmetic differences, the PAL TG has a Coregrafx/Duo AV port and the power supply and such come in a separate box. Here are a few pics-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/ptg1.jpg)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/ptg2.jpg)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/ptg3.jpg)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.met/img/ptg4.jpg)
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Keranu on February 10, 2008, 12:49:39 PM
I can't wait to see the rest of that, Black_Tiger. That looks awesome.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: MurderDate on February 10, 2008, 01:45:25 PM
Black Tiger - I didn't even have to ask ! You rrrule!
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: ceti alpha on February 10, 2008, 01:59:04 PM
Great pics B_T. It's great to finally see these guys side by side.
I have to say I think I prefer the US TG, though I do like how the "16" was dropped. The whole "TG16 isn't 16-Bit" thing back in the day probably wouldn't have been as bad as it was if NEC didn't tag the number "16" after the name. :P It just drew attention to the fact that the TG16 only had an 8bit CPU when nobody would have been the wiser, or at least it wouldn't have been such a big issue. If ever questioned about it NEC/Hudson could just say, "Yeah, the TG16 only has an 8bit CPU. So what? It's tweaked so much we can do whatever else the competition can muster up if not better." But that's just one of the many marketing blunders the US marketing team had with the TG...16.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 10, 2008, 01:59:16 PM
Here's the separate accessories box-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/ptg5.jpg)
It came with Alien Crush and a cheap photocopied manual as they're pictured-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/ptg6.jpg)
These last two things really make it look like it was a test marketing lot and not intended for retail.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 10, 2008, 03:04:53 PM
Very interesting. Together it almost looks like the US version is the Halloween Edition of the TurboGrafx console and the grey one is the normal one. How about the expansion ports... same shape?
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 10, 2008, 03:50:13 PM
Very interesting. Together it almost looks like the US version is the Halloween Edition of the TurboGrafx console and the grey one is the normal one. How about the expansion ports... same shape?
I didn't count the pins or anything, but they look the same-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/ptg7.jpg)
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 10, 2008, 04:33:30 PM
Is the controller port PC-Engine sized or TurboGrafx-16 sized?
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Necromancer on February 10, 2008, 04:54:41 PM
People are known to collect pointless things. If there are Japanese collectors with PAL Turbos (which is totally pointless), then I'm sure some American has one.
Truer words were never spoken. I'd like to have one of these machines for myself, though I'm not really sure why.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 10, 2008, 05:19:56 PM
Here's the separate accessories box- It came with Alien Crush and a cheap photocopied manual as they're pictured-
These last two things really make it look like it was a test marketing lot and not intended for retail.
Interesting.
Blazing Lazers was the pack-in game for every one of the European TurboGrafx units that I've ever come across. Maybe the one you picked up actually is some kind of test-/pre-market deck?
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 10, 2008, 05:59:02 PM
The game library for the European version is the same as the library for the US TurboGrafx line. The same carts play on both European and American TurboGrafx consoles.
The pack-in game with the European TurboGrafx was Blazing Lazers instead of Keith Courage, though.
Thank you once again, Nat! Your powers of intellegence impress me once more :). A good choice that Blazing Lazers was the pack-in game for it (me and Keranu had a discussion about this once). Oddly, though, Bonk's Adventure never came with the console itself, in spite of being a mascot stellar platformer for it.
Thanks, Nat! So, they were available in Europe after all. Now, I wonder how those two pictures were obtained? Sure, they may have been from the best picture results they can find, but its strange to see ScrewAttack display a European console when they are from Dallas, Texas. Then again, they do have a ScrewAttack Europe foundation...
People are known to collect pointless things. If there are Japanese collectors with PAL Turbos (which is totally pointless), then I'm sure some American has one.
I have both US, and JP modems, keyboards, and mice for the Sega Saturn. Why? Not sure. I've literally never used the JP modem, and I'm not sure I ever will.
According to Handsome Tom's Closet/Video Game Collection (http://www.screwattack.com/archive/2007/HandsomeTom'sCloset.html), they only have a US TurboGrafx-16. I hardly find anything at all in it that would be considered pointless :P.
One of my unfinished projects is a detailed breakdown of the PAL TurboGrafx. When I got it, I photographed everything as I took it apart. I also took pics of the North American TG-16, both of them together, etc.
Aside from the cosmetic differences, the PAL TG has a Coregrafx/Duo AV port and the power supply and such come in a separate box. Here are a few pics-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ptg1.jpg)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ptg2.jpg)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ptg3.jpg)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ptg4.jpg)
Wow! I learned something new about the TurboGrafx-16 today: there's a big lump to where the plastic covering on the back of the unit is and the CD-ROM add-on attaches! I always thought that this area was flat, only with a few connections in it. I'd never thought that you had a PAL TurboGrafx, SuperPCEngineGrafx. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this, especially if there's any differences between the internals.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Kitsunexus on February 10, 2008, 07:28:49 PM
I planned on consulting the experts before plugging it in to test, since the voltage is different.
All you would need to do is check the input voltage of the console itself. This probably shouldn't be any different than the US model, since the circuitry inside is virtually identical. Obviously you can't use the EU adapter with it if you're in the US, but you should be able to use the US adapter. I'm not 100% sure on this though, so again, check the voltage requirements for the console itself.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Necromancer on February 11, 2008, 02:15:18 AM
Oddly, though, Bonk's Adventure never came with the console itself, in spite of being a mascot stellar platformer for it.
It came with my US TurboGrafx-16.
As well as with my US TurboDuo.
When did you purchase your TurboGrafx-16, Joe Redifer? I don't remember ever hearing about Bonk's Adventure being included with the console. Was it given as a free offer?
Sure, the TurboDuo came with Bonk 3-in-1 CD, but I was referring to the first game. If that did come with the system, then that would be an interesting thing indeed :-k.
Is the controller port PC-Engine sized or TurboGrafx-16 sized?
I believe that the only difference physically is the the A/V out.
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ptg8.jpg)
I packed it back up after taking the photos.
I planned on consulting the experts before plugging it in to test, since the voltage is different.
Wait a minute. Where's the second controller port :shock:?! Usually consoles have at least two so another player can join in the game. If it really doesn't have another one, then I wonder how the two boys were able to play with each other in the(assuming that the multi-tap wasn't available yet and they were playing with each other at some point)?
One final question for this console, though: When was its release date? Seeing that it has an A/V port, I expect it to be launched at least one year later.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 11, 2008, 03:20:59 AM
All NEC consoles from that era have only one port. The TurboTap provides the ability for multi-player action. The Tap was available at the time the system was released.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 11, 2008, 05:16:41 AM
All NEC consoles from that era have only one port. The TurboTap provides the ability for multi-player action. The Tap was available at the time the system was released.
What a strange design :P. First, I've discovered that the TurboChips need to be shoved into the system from the front as opposed to pushing the catridges on the top like most other consoles at the time, then I find it has only one controller port. I suppose that's why the TurboTap has 5 connectors on in, and not just for convenience reasons.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: ceti alpha on February 11, 2008, 07:05:57 AM
Only having one controller port on the Turbo did kind of suck, but at the same time having the TurboTap rocked. So in the end I would take one controller port over two anyway. A five player game of Dungeon Explorer is the shit - still haven't experience 5 player Bomberman or Battle Royale. It really wouldn't have made sense to give the Turbo two controller ports when they were planning on creating the TurboTap and multiplayer games. Also the TurboTap wasn't that expensive either. The Turbo was pretty cheap compared to the Genesis and eventually the SNES, so picking up the TurboTap really wasn't that big a deal really.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 11, 2008, 09:07:27 AM
Nobody who owned a Turbo had any friends, hence the need for only one controller port.
I got my TurboGrafx-16 with Bonk inside the box in 1991.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: awack on February 11, 2008, 09:53:22 AM
Quote
Nobody who owned a Turbo had any friends, hence the need for only one controller port.
HA:D,thats because we had a inferiority complex and had no friends, we would never whip ours out because we were told that our CPU was only half the size of other consoles and that it could never satisfy the needs of a real gamer.
Black tiger, that smokey grey euro turbo grafx looks really good, i think it looks much better than the halloween collord turbo grafx 16.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: ceti alpha on February 11, 2008, 10:16:03 AM
Quote
Nobody who owned a Turbo had any friends, hence the need for only one controller port.
haha. That's because we were afraid, or puzzled rather, by all of those gamers running around with "Genesis Does" written in their eyes and screaming "Sega!". It was frightening and made no sense to us, therefore, we stuck to ourselves until the myth of blast processing faded and the state humanity returned to normal.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nodtveidt on February 11, 2008, 10:40:46 AM
Actually guys n gals, having a single port which is expandable through a single device is more efficient than having two ports. The multitaps other consoles had required very specialized programming to make use of, but since the PCE/TG16 was designed to work this way from the very beginning, it was far easier to make use of.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 11, 2008, 11:46:14 AM
I planned on consulting the experts before plugging it in to test, since the voltage is different.
All you would need to do is check the input voltage of the console itself. This probably shouldn't be any different than the US model, since the circuitry inside is virtually identical. Obviously you can't use the EU adapter with it if you're in the US, but you should be able to use the US adapter. I'm not 100% sure on this though, so again, check the voltage requirements for the console itself.
This is one of the first things I did, since I'm able to play my PAL Megadrive with North American Genesis power supplies.
It turns out that both the input and output on the AC adaptors is different. The console itself only lists the output.
Here are the specs of each AC adaptor:
PAL TurboGrafx:
Input: 220VAC 50Hz Output: 10.5VDC 780mA
NTSC TurboGrafx-16:
Input: 120VAC 60Hz 15W Output: 10.5VDC 730mA
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 11, 2008, 12:47:33 PM
I got my TurboGrafx-16 with Bonk inside the box in 1991.
Hm. After all, I have not heard much about the advertising for it in 1991. This may also be related to the same ordeal that you had included stickers with yours. Since that is the year Bonk's Revenge was released, are you positive it was Bonk's Adventure, or was it the sequel instead?
Nobody who owned a Turbo had any friends, hence the need for only one controller port.
Haha. That's because we were afraid, or puzzled rather, by all of those gamers running around with "Genesis Does" written in their eyes and screaming "Sega!". It was frightening and made no sense to us, therefore, we stuck to ourselves until the myth of blast processing faded and the state of humanity returned to normal.
A couple of individuals I know on YouTube, who are LaiSteve66 and BoilerPlate, told me that nobody was really talking about the TurboGrafx-16 around its release; it was all about the Sega Genesis and later the Super Nintendo. Also, having a TurboGrafx-16 would be the possible cause of a "social isolation" since a person would not fit the "herd mentality."
With the amount of scary games (to my past experiences, at least 8-[), and sometimes scary advertisements (which are more relevant to the Sega Saturn), the Sega Genesis was somthing to be feared of. It was one evil console, indeed :evil:.
I planned on consulting the experts before plugging it in to test, since the voltage is different.
All you would need to do is check the input voltage of the console itself. This probably shouldn't be any different than the US model, since the circuitry inside is virtually identical. Obviously you can't use the EU adapter with it if you're in the US, but you should be able to use the US adapter. I'm not 100% sure on this though, so again, check the voltage requirements for the console itself.
This is one of the first things I did, since I'm able to play my PAL Megadrive with North American Genesis power supplies.
It turns out that both the input and output on the AC adaptors is different. The console itself only lists the output.
Here are the specs of each AC adaptor:
PAL TurboGrafx:
Input: 220VAC 50Hz Output: 10.5VDC 780mA
NTSC TurboGrafx-16:
Input: 120VAC 60Hz 15W Output: 10.5VDC 730mA
For the most part, it looks like the European TurboGrafx has more power useage, although it doesn't do so as quickly. It interesting to see how the PAL electrical currents work and compare to the NTSC ones.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 11, 2008, 12:53:00 PM
Black Tiger, I think you'd be fine to use the US AC adapter on the PAL TurboGrafx. The US TG-16 adapter works great with the white Japanese cores as well.
A difference of 50mA isn't going to change anything.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nodtveidt on February 11, 2008, 01:04:25 PM
The output of the adapter is what the console expects. The US adapter may not have enough power though. 50mA can be a considerable difference in output. It all depends on whether or not the console actually uses all that amperage. That extra 50mA may be required for the signal conversion circuitry. Try it...if it doesn't work, then it's not enough power.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 11, 2008, 01:06:39 PM
That's true, I forgot about that goofy NTSC->PAL converter.
Still, I say it'll be fine. The worst that'll happen is that you'll have no picture using the US adapter. You can't harm the console though.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 11, 2008, 02:06:45 PM
That's true, I forgot about that goofy NTSC->PAL converter.
Still, I say it'll be fine. The worst that'll happen is that you'll have no picture using the US adapter. You can't harm the console though.
Alright then, I'll blame you if it goes up in smoke. :wink:
EDIT: I dug out the main PAL TG unit and a standard PCE A/V cable and when I tried to plug it in... it didn't fit. :shock: Instead of forcing it at all, I compared the male and female ends and it was too close to call, although they looked a little off.
So I went and grabbed the accessory box and compared the PAL A/V cable and it was clearer that they are indeed different (but still similar). I also tried a TG-16 "halloween" Turbo Pad and it fit fine.
So I finally got it hooked up with the TG-16 ac adaptor, hit the switch and... it worked! :D But not only did it power on and run on my HD LCD, it runs smooth without the stuttery frame rate that NTSC Turbo/PCE systems cause on this TV. :P
So far the only game I've tried is JJ & Jeff and the sound seems as though it may be a little different(I haven't played it in a while). This TV has simulated surround sound though, so that may be all it is.
Now I'm going to try a few more Turbochips and a PCE HuCard just for the hell of it. :)
EDIT AGAIN: The games are cropped to a wider perspective. The rest of the screen is black, and some of the off-screen bg/foreground building pieces can be seen in Aeroblasters(I'll need pics to explain properly). The image appears to look less distorted than this TV makes other retro/240p consoles look.
The following games seemed to run fine at full speed:
JJ & Jeff Magical Chase Dragon's Curse
These games ran slow, sound and all:
Aeroblasters Bonk 3 Ninja Spirit
Bloody Wolf didn't work at all, but I only tried it 3 or 4 times. It just produced a white screen the same as a PCE HuCard.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to a decent video camera at the moment. Once I do, I'll hook the PAL TG back up and do some comparison videos.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Keranu on February 11, 2008, 03:53:16 PM
More reasons why JJ and Jeff is a well made game 8) .
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 11, 2008, 04:03:04 PM
That's true, I forgot about that goofy NTSC->PAL converter.
Still, I say it'll be fine. The worst that'll happen is that you'll have no picture using the US adapter. You can't harm the console though.
Alright then, I'll blame you if it goes up in smoke. :wink:
EDIT: I dug out the main PAL TG unit and a standard PCE A/V cable and when I tried to plug it in... it didn't fit. :shock: Instead of forcing it at all, I compared the male and female ends and it was too close to call, although they looked a little off.
So I went and grabbed the accessory box and compared the PAL A/V cable and it was clearer that they are indeed different (but still similar). I also tried a TG-16 "halloween" Turbo Pad and it fit fine.
So I finally got it hooked up with the TG-16 ac adaptor, hit the switch and... it worked! :D But not only did it power on and run on my HD LCD, it runs smooth without the stuttery frame rate that NTSC Turbo/PCE systems cause on this TV. :P
So far the only game I've tried is JJ & Jeff and the sound seems as though it may be a little different(I haven't played it in a while). This TV has simulated surround sound though, so that may be all it is.
Now I'm going to try a few more Turbochips and a PCE HuCard just for the hell of it. :)
EDIT AGAIN: The games are cropped to a wider perspective. The rest of the screen is black, and some of the off-screen bg/foreground building pieces can be seen in Aeroblasters(I'll need pics to explain properly). The image appears to look less distorted than this TV makes other retro/240p consoles look.
The following games seemed to run fine at full speed:
JJ & Jeff Magical Chase Dragon's Curse
These games ran slow, sound and all:
Aeroblasters Bonk 3 Ninja Spirit
Bloody Wolf didn't work at all, but I only tried it 3 or 4 times. It just produced a white screen the same as a PCE HuCard.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to a decent video camera at the moment. Once I do, I'll hook the PAL TG back up and do some comparison videos.
"Male and female" ends? That's "polarized and neutral (non-polarized)", not "male and female", Black Tiger :P.
It is a common problem for PAL consoles to have slowdowns when running on 50Hz (there is the possiblity to switch to 60Hz for these systems). This is more prevalent in earlier-made ones.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Turbo D on February 11, 2008, 05:15:51 PM
the connector that looks like a weiner is male. The hole connecter is female. Just like in real life.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 11, 2008, 05:32:58 PM
Quote from: Game and Watch Kirby
Hm. After all, I have not heard much about the advertising for it in 1991. This may also be related to the same ordeal that you had included stickers with yours. Since that is the year Bonk's Revenge was released, are you positive it was Bonk's Adventure, or was it the sequel instead?
Here is a picture of my TG-16 box:
(http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/tgbonk.jpg)
I never owned Bonk's Revenge until I purchased the Super System Card which came with it on the Gate of Thunder CD. The stickers came with the CD unit I believe.
PS - Black Tiger, I think your HDTV accepts a PAL signal. Just a guess on my part.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Keranu on February 11, 2008, 05:46:05 PM
Oh yes, the totally happy Turbo Grafx dude strikes back!
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 12, 2008, 12:09:33 AM
Quote
It is a common problem for PAL consoles to have slowdowns when running on 50Hz (there is the possiblity to switch to 60Hz for these systems). This is more prevalent in earlier-made ones.
PS - Black Tiger, I think your HDTV accepts a PAL signal. Just a guess on my part.
The reason I first tried it on my LCD is because I know that it does PAL. My projector does too, but only the LCD doesn't run NTSC PCE video correctly.
The weird thing is that later last night I was testing a TG-16 with RF for an unrelated issue and it also ran smooth. I was sure that I had tried a few different PCE systems, including my Duo RX and Shuttle and that they all turned out choppy. Maybe the Turbo's artifact reduction doesn't work when run through RF or something.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: guyjin on February 12, 2008, 01:09:01 PM
from the picture on the box, I'm guessing turbo sized - the pce controller connector isn't as long.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 12, 2008, 01:59:32 PM
EDIT AGAIN: The games are cropped to a wider perspective. The rest of the screen is black, and some of the off-screen bg/foreground building pieces can be seen in Aeroblasters(I'll need pics to explain properly). The image appears to look less distorted than this TV makes other retro/240p consoles look.
Yeah, that's why at the time I;d never buy pal systems, even though I'm french, as I always found games running on PAL systems too slow for me. The problem is that at the time, all TVs in France wouldn't accept NTSC systems and I had to buy a TV so that I could play wirth my PC Engine. When I bought a PAL TGX a couple of years ago, I was stunned when I first ran Turrican as it was as slow as a tired snail.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: guyjin on February 16, 2008, 06:16:58 AM
Yeah, Ive seen videos of UKians playing Wonderboy 3: dragon's trap on the SMS, and the game seeming to be in slo-mo.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: FM-77 on February 16, 2008, 06:32:33 AM
That extra 50mA may be required for the signal conversion circuitry.
No such thing. The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion"). In other words, this is the exact same hardware, with the exception of that single crystal.
Also, slowdown is a misleading term when talking about PAL-50 output... Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain, but think about ACTUAL slowdown in games... like, when a game starts running at maybe 30% speed because there's too much stuff going on at the screen... well, in PAL mode, these slowdowns rarely occur.
It's pretty fun to play a game console with a 50/60 Hz switch... whenever there's slowdown in a game, I just flip it to 50Hz and it all runs faster right away.
I don't know what causes it, but I think that Bonknuts briefly explained this somewhere once.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 16, 2008, 07:31:21 AM
Hm. After all, I have not heard much about the advertising for it in 1991. This may also be related to the same ordeal that you had included stickers with yours. Since that is the year Bonk's Revenge was released, are you positive it was Bonk's Adventure, or was it the sequel instead?
Here is a picture of my TG-16 box:
(http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/tgbonk.jpg)
I never owned Bonk's Revenge until I purchased the Super System Card which came with it on the Gate of Thunder CD. The stickers came with the CD unit I believe.
PS - Black Tiger, I think your HDTV accepts a PAL signal. Just a guess on my part.
You know what, though, I have heard being mentioned in that SuperPCEngineGrafx has that purchasing a TurboGrafx-16 at the time would get the buyer "a free Bonk!" with the purchase. I was pretty sure that it was Bonk's Revenge that would be with since it was shown with that promotion.
It wouldn't strongly be considered a "Halloween" theme, since red and yellow are not really Halloween colors. It's more in the general "evil" color scheme, since all the colors representing on it fit this more properly. Of course, the TurboGrafx-16 itself isn't considered evil, but it may have been misunderstood as it by a few because of this.
That extra 50mA may be required for the signal conversion circuitry.
No such thing. The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion"). In other words, this is the exact same hardware, with the exception of that single crystal.
Also, slowdown is a misleading term when talking about PAL-50 output... Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain, but think about ACTUAL slowdown in games... like, when a game starts running at maybe 30% speed because there's too much stuff going on at the screen... well, in PAL mode, these slowdowns rarely occur.
It's pretty fun to play a game console with a 50/60 Hz switch... whenever there's slowdown in a game, I just flip it to 50Hz and it all runs faster right away.
I don't know what causes it, but I think that Bonknuts briefly explained this somewhere once.
This information seems to be "incorrect", in a sense. More proper evidence is needed.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Necromancer on February 16, 2008, 08:07:37 AM
It wouldn't strongly be considered a "Halloween" theme, since red and yellow are not really Halloween colors. It's more in the general "evil" color scheme, since all the colors representing on it fit this more properly. Of course, the TurboGrafx-16 itself isn't considered evil, but it may have been misunderstood as it by a few because of this.
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
This information seems to be "incorrect", in a sense. More proper evidence is needed.
I await your rebuttal and proof.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 16, 2008, 08:18:25 AM
Quote
What a strange design :P. First, I've discovered that the TurboChips need to be shoved into the system from the front as opposed to pushing the catridges on the top like most other consoles at the time, then I find it has only one controller port. I suppose that's why the TurboTap has 5 connectors on in, and not just for convenience reasons.
Well if you are just looking at the TG-16 it seems weird, but these design decisions makes sense when you see the original white PC Engine. There isn't any room for another controller port, and the HuCard being horizontal makes the whole package much smaller.
Personally, I've never heard a credible explanation for why the TG-16 is more than twice the size of a PC Engine. I assume its because they were thinking that Americans like really f*cking huge things (Mercury Grand Marquis, for example), so they wouldn't like a nice tidy white PC Engine that is only the size of a few CD cases stacked up. However, they easily could have built a 5 player tap into the TG-16 if they wanted to, but instead all they did was use a larger DIN connector for the single controller port.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nodtveidt on February 16, 2008, 10:06:41 AM
Could have chosen a better way to say it...makes ya sound rude. :P Anyways, I've never looked in one so I wouldn't know...only going by what others have said, and what makes sense. So then, if there's no video conversion circuitry...someone please explain the difference in 50mA. That's a considerable power difference.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 16, 2008, 12:02:00 PM
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
Supposedly, in certain lightings, the "Turbo" part of the logo can appear to be orange. From the many image sources I've seen before, this has been red.
Quote from: Game and Watch Kirby
This information seems to be "incorrect", in a sense. More proper evidence is needed.
What I meant by this is that the information that FM-77 presented doesn't look to be complete, as there were some holes left in the information, and doesn't seem to be properly sourced, regardless if it's really true or not. If Bonknuts did briefly explained this as implied, it is in doubt that it would be enough to provide that much in extent. For this conception reason, I try to say and source my knowledge the best I can.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Turbo D on February 16, 2008, 12:12:52 PM
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
Supposedly, in certain lightings, the "Turbo" part of the logo can appear to be orange. From the many image sources I've seen before, this has been red.
Are you daft? Its not red, its orange.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 16, 2008, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: FM-77
The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion").
WRONG! PAL color is completely different than NTSC color. It's not just the speed difference. If you only slowed it down to 50Hz, you'd have NTSC 50 which is not PAL. Just like PAL 60 is not NTSC.
Quote from: FM-77
Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain
I bet it is, especially since games that usually run at 60fps could never be bested in framerate by those that run at 50fps. Perhaps you mean there is less slowdown and when it happens it is less severe as a result. That I will buy.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 16, 2008, 02:03:25 PM
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
Supposedly, in certain lightings, the "Turbo" part of the logo can appear to be orange. From the many image sources I've seen before, this has been red.
Are you daft? Its not red, its orange.
Again, that was based on my image sources. What I can say is that the "Turbo" part is a darker color than the "16" circle. It may just be considered, then, a red-orange :!:.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Turbo D on February 16, 2008, 02:21:24 PM
Well, I happen to have the console sitting right in front of me. Its not red-orange, its just orange. Perhaps you should find new image sources :P
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 16, 2008, 02:37:54 PM
Well, I happen to have the console sitting right in front of me. Its not red-orange, its just orange. Perhaps you should find new image sources :P
Okay then, but I'm not going to say that what I've seen is inaccurate, either. Until I can get true hard-core evidence (such as seeing one in real life), I will let this stand by. This may be the type of thing that's related to how PlayStations can look like a darker gray in certain lighting conditions.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Necromancer on February 16, 2008, 02:53:01 PM
Okay then, but I'm not going to say that what I've seen is inaccurate, either. Until I can get true hard-core evidence (such as seeing one in real life), I will let this stand by. This may be the type of thing that's related to how PlayStations can look like a darker gray in certain lighting conditions.
So the images that you've seen on the internet lead you to believe that it's red, and the fellow board members (who actually own the hardware in question) can't convince you that it's orange. Fine, then I say that PS3s are titty pink. I overheard a blind hobo muttering something to this effect, and since I don't have one sitting in front of me to disprove this theory, then it must be true. :P
Just yanking your chain a bit. Go back to Black Tiger's pic of the Euro and US controllers. Under identical lighting conditions, it clearly shows the orange/yellow coloring of the US controller and the red/blue coloring of the Euro controller.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 16, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
Supposedly, in certain lightings, the "Turbo" part of the logo can appear to be orange. From the many image sources I've seen before, this has been red.
Are you daft? Its not red, its orange.
I don't think that Game and Watch Kirby has spent much time with a TG-16 in person and is judging from various online pics, many of which can be misleading.
The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion").
WRONG! PAL color is completely different than NTSC color. It's not just the speed difference. If you only slowed it down to 50Hz, you'd have NTSC 50 which is not PAL. Just like PAL 60 is not NTSC.
Quote from: FM-77
Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain
I bet it is, especially since games that usually run at 60fps could never be bested in framerate by those that run at 50fps. Perhaps you mean there is less slowdown and when it happens it is less severe as a result. That I will buy.
I think Seldane is talking about playing games made/converted/localized/optimized for PAL consoles and then switching to 60Hz.
Well, I happen to have the console sitting right in front of me. Its not red-orange, its just orange. Perhaps you should find new image sources :P
Okay then, but I'm not going to say that what I've seen is inaccurate, either. Until I can get true hard-core evidence (such as seeing one in real life), I will let this stand by. This may be the type of thing that's related to how PlayStations can look like a darker gray in certain lighting conditions.
The problem is that the TG-16's orange is fluorescent and shiny and doesn't always appear in photos as it looks in person.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 16, 2008, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: Black Tiger
I think Seldane is talking about playing games made/converted/localized/optimized for PAL consoles and then switching to 60Hz.
Then the games would run too fast.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 16, 2008, 04:08:15 PM
I think Seldane is talking about playing games made/converted/localized/optimized for PAL consoles and then switching to 60Hz.
Then the games would run too fast.
Thats what I would also assume, but judging from his post, it sounds like he sits next to his console and flicks the Hz switch back and forth as he encounters slowdown in games.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Game and Watch Kirby on February 16, 2008, 04:33:57 PM
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
Supposedly, in certain lightings, the "Turbo" part of the logo can appear to be orange. From the many image sources I've seen before, this has been red.
Are you daft? Its not red, its orange.
I don't think that Game and Watch Kirby has spent much time with a TG-16 in person and is judging from various online pics, many of which can be misleading.
The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion").
WRONG! PAL color is completely different than NTSC color. It's not just the speed difference. If you only slowed it down to 50Hz, you'd have NTSC 50 which is not PAL. Just like PAL 60 is not NTSC.
Quote from: FM-77
Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain
I bet it is, especially since games that usually run at 60fps could never be bested in framerate by those that run at 50fps. Perhaps you mean there is less slowdown and when it happens it is less severe as a result. That I will buy.
I think Seldane is talking about playing games made/converted/localized/optimized for PAL consoles and then switching to 60Hz.
Well, I happen to have the console sitting right in front of me. Its not red-orange, its just orange. Perhaps you should find new image sources :P
Okay then, but I'm not going to say that what I've seen is inaccurate, either. Until I can get true hard-core evidence (such as seeing one in real life), I will let this stand by. This may be the type of thing that's related to how PlayStations can look like a darker gray in certain lighting conditions.
The problem is that the TG-16's orange is fluorescent and shiny and doesn't always appear in photos as it looks in person.
I did a few anglings with a couple of pictures of TurboGrafx-16s (I have an LCD monitor for my computer). When viewing the screen from down below, when the screen turns black and inversed for lighted liquid crystal display screens, the "Turbo" part of the logo looks to be more of a reddish color. When viewing it from above, it looks to be a light orange. The "16" circle part, however, was virtually the same. Now, I know that PlayStations can look a darker gray in certain lighting, specifically dim ones, since I have one, but if it is as fluorescent orange and can look different in photos as said, maybe it's possible that the same event can happen with that part of the logo. Even still, I consider it more of an "evil" color scheme since yellow doesn't strongly fit with Halloween (only black and orange are greatly this, and candy corn is yellow, orange, and white, also).
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 16, 2008, 05:01:25 PM
Quote
...someone please explain the difference in 50mA. That's a considerable power difference.
No, it really isn't. Not when you consider than a PCE needs ten times that just to function without problems.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Turbo D on February 16, 2008, 06:07:27 PM
It's orange and yellow, not red and yellow. Candy corn, which is undoubtedly a Halloween candy, is also orange and yellow; therefor a orange and yellow motif on a black object (nobody can intelligently argue that black is unHalloweeny), can certainly be considered a Halloween theme.
Supposedly, in certain lightings, the "Turbo" part of the logo can appear to be orange. From the many image sources I've seen before, this has been red.
Are you daft? Its not red, its orange.
I don't think that Game and Watch Kirby has spent much time with a TG-16 in person and is judging from various online pics, many of which can be misleading.
The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion").
WRONG! PAL color is completely different than NTSC color. It's not just the speed difference. If you only slowed it down to 50Hz, you'd have NTSC 50 which is not PAL. Just like PAL 60 is not NTSC.
Quote from: FM-77
Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain
I bet it is, especially since games that usually run at 60fps could never be bested in framerate by those that run at 50fps. Perhaps you mean there is less slowdown and when it happens it is less severe as a result. That I will buy.
I think Seldane is talking about playing games made/converted/localized/optimized for PAL consoles and then switching to 60Hz.
Well, I happen to have the console sitting right in front of me. Its not red-orange, its just orange. Perhaps you should find new image sources :P
Okay then, but I'm not going to say that what I've seen is inaccurate, either. Until I can get true hard-core evidence (such as seeing one in real life), I will let this stand by. This may be the type of thing that's related to how PlayStations can look like a darker gray in certain lighting conditions.
The problem is that the TG-16's orange is fluorescent and shiny and doesn't always appear in photos as it looks in person.
I did a few anglings with a couple of pictures of TurboGrafx-16s (I have an LCD monitor for my computer). When viewing the screen from down below, when the screen turns black and inversed for lighted liquid crystal display screens, the "Turbo" part of the logo looks to be more of a reddish color. When viewing it from above, it looks to be a light orange. The "16" circle part, however, was virtually the same. Now, I know that PlayStations can look a darker gray in certain lighting, specifically dim ones, since I have one, but if it is as fluorescent orange and can look different in photos as said, maybe it's possible that the same event can happen with that part of the logo. Even still, I consider it more of an "evil" color scheme since yellow doesn't strongly fit with Halloween (only black and orange are greatly this, and candy corn is yellow, orange, and white, also).
Could have chosen a better way to say it...makes ya sound rude. :P Anyways, I've never looked in one so I wouldn't know...only going by what others have said, and what makes sense. So then, if there's no video conversion circuitry...someone please explain the difference in 50mA. That's a considerable power difference.
Sorry dood. I didn't know that it made me sound rude. I didn't intend to. :P
I bet it is, especially since games that usually run at 60fps could never be bested in framerate by those that run at 50fps. Perhaps you mean there is less slowdown and when it happens it is less severe as a result. That I will buy.
There's a major difference in 60Hz and 60FPS. 60Hz is how often the TV updates the frame, 60FPS is how many frames the hardware actually deliver. The TV will always update the frame at 50 or 60 times, depending on the video mode, but the hardware will NEVER deliver a solid 50 or 60 FPS. In PAL mode, the hardware is somehow capable of delivering more FPS, which is evident in PAL machines where frame rate drops are far fewer than on their NTSC counterparts.
PS: I did not mean games optimized for 50Hz. Those games are REALLY rare. The only ones I can think of are SMW and Donkey Kong Country 1-3 for SNES. Pretty much all other games run 17% slower in 50Hz mode. It's very fun to play those games in 60Hz mode, since that makes them run far faster than they are intended to. It's kinda like Sonic, except it's Mario/DK. :P SMW gets some graphical glitches when you do this, though.
I will try to record a video of me switching from 60 to 50 Hz on a certain boss battle in Light Crusader where there's a massive FPS drop in NTSC mode, but almost none in PAL mode.
And about the PAL/NTSC color thing... I really think it depends on the TV alone, not the console. A PAL TV will always display PAL video, regardless if the console is a NTSC variant or not, or if the video mode is 50 or 60 Hz.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nodtveidt on February 17, 2008, 03:12:29 AM
Sorry dood. I didn't know that it made me sound rude. I didn't intend to. :P
No problem. A better way to say it would have been "There actually is no converter" or "Whoever told you it had a converter is a monkey snot". :D
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 17, 2008, 11:18:19 AM
Quote from: FM-77
60Hz is how often the TV updates the frame, 60FPS is how many frames the hardware actually deliver. The TV will always update the frame at 50 or 60 times, depending on the video mode, but the hardware will NEVER deliver a solid 50 or 60 FPS.
Wow. Just wow. Have you never seen a game scroll? Most games scroll at 60fps. That's right, it's in a different position 59.94 times per second (the TV actually runs at 59.94Hz). Some games like Wonderboy 3 on the SMS, scroll at 30fps (rounded up from 29.97). The Turbo/PCE version of the same game scrolls much smoother at 60fps.
Can YOU tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps? Try and see if you can tell me which of these identical clips is a solid 60fps and which is a solid 30fps. It is from Super Monkey Ball which runs at 60fps and never, ever drops a frame
Quicktime format (http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/smbcompare.mov) - 1.86 MB
WMV format (http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/smbcompare.wmv) - 2.16 MB
Note: If your computer is slow/ancient, you may have trouble playing back the file without it stuttering. In this case the results would be inconclusive to you.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nodtveidt on February 17, 2008, 03:11:16 PM
As a game designer, I can ALWAYS tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. It's almost a no-brainer. Frame-based timing is my specialty, despite my PC-developing colleagues constantly telling me "time-based movement is superior!".
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: FM-77 on February 18, 2008, 02:15:53 AM
60Hz is how often the TV updates the frame, 60FPS is how many frames the hardware actually deliver. The TV will always update the frame at 50 or 60 times, depending on the video mode, but the hardware will NEVER deliver a solid 50 or 60 FPS.
Wow. Just wow. Have you never seen a game scroll? Most games scroll at 60fps. That's right, it's in a different position 59.94 times per second (the TV actually runs at 59.94Hz). Some games like Wonderboy 3 on the SMS, scroll at 30fps (rounded up from 29.97). The Turbo/PCE version of the same game scrolls much smoother at 60fps.
Can YOU tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps? Try and see if you can tell me which of these identical clips is a solid 60fps and which is a solid 30fps. It is from Super Monkey Ball which runs at 60fps and never, ever drops a frame
Quicktime format (http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/smbcompare.mov) - 1.86 MB
WMV format (http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/smbcompare.wmv) - 2.16 MB
Note: If your computer is slow/ancient, you may have trouble playing back the file without it stuttering. In this case the results would be inconclusive to you.
Of course console games generally run at 30 or 60 FPS using v-sync, but that's not what I meant. I was talking about FPS drops, which occur in almost every game at times.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 18, 2008, 03:50:40 AM
I don't recall seeing many games before the 3D generation with frame drops. Yes, there definitely were some, but not a ton. If something slows when it is, say, fading out, I wouldn't really count that.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: FM-77 on February 18, 2008, 07:41:16 AM
I don't recall seeing many games before the 3D generation with frame drops. Yes, there definitely were some, but not a ton. If something slows when it is, say, fading out, I wouldn't really count that.
Lots of NES and SNES games had them... Ducktales comes to mind.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on February 18, 2008, 11:58:07 AM
Lots of games have slowdown, which can give the appearence of choppiness since you have enough time to see the increments that objects are really moving at. But I don't remember any 'retro' 2D games that appeared to drop/skip frames.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Bonknuts on February 18, 2008, 12:50:02 PM
Old 2D system didn't "drop frames" because they used a totally different type of video system/setup. They are not rendering to a frame buffer in the same way PC and later games system did/do. You'd *really* have to go out of your way to make a frame drop system for an old 2D console, and even then it wouldn't eliminate slowdown in every case and wouldn't be the same as a PC/3D console equivalent.
Games that ran in 30fps are not the same as a frame drop system.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: FM-77 on February 18, 2008, 01:25:09 PM
I don't know what it's called, but that kind of slowdown sure is common in old video games.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 18, 2008, 02:27:21 PM
PAL systems tend to have more CPU headroom and therefore usually see less slowdown.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: nat on February 18, 2008, 02:33:28 PM
I've never owned PAL-anything, but from what I've heard, it sounds like PAL is a colossal pile of crap. Who wants to play games in slow motion except little girls?
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 18, 2008, 03:06:07 PM
Don't forget the distorted aspect ratio! Games made and/or optimized for PAL are pretty cool. PAL 60 is nice because you get NTSC speed and PAL color + PAL resolution.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Fidde_se on November 01, 2013, 07:41:22 AM
Hate bringing up such an old thread, but it's on the right subject, there a few threads about Turbografx (EU), any how the conclusion is that it has a crystal giving the PAL timing (frequency) making the games 17% slower, meaning that the EXT connector is actually putting out the composite in NTSC50 (that's damn unusual, PAL60 is nearly common) only the DIN socket has the true PAL output, changing the crystal would mean that you could get the normal NTSC in 60hz just like all other TG16/PCEs out there.
If anyone ever wondered why there is black borders on PAL games, it's not because it's crappier, but it's the programmers that were lazy, difference between PAL and NTSC is Hz, Colour Table and Resolution, they simply just took NTSC games (480 Lines) and not changing the frequency but Colour Table, meaning the tv stabilized the picture in the middle of the screen giving the black borders up and down and PAL having 525 or even 625 Lines but only 576 contains picture (PAL LaserDiscs could have 625 Lines where NTSC has 425 Lines, NTSC DVDs have 480 Lines... meaning good PAL LaserDiscs were like HD... nearly).
Optimized PAL games run at full speed but has 20% higher resolution, NTSC outputs 30 (29.97) frames per second (60hz is just two same looking frames after each other, yes 60fps is 60 different pictures after each other but that's another thing) PAL has 25 frames per second.
This will also result in that movies have different length in PAL or NTSC countries, all the frames are laid out and fit into its frame per second and the audio has to be stretched to fit them, and no Hollywood does no make films in NTSC, frame rate might be the same (not any more though) but it does not share any colour table and resolution.
When in RGB colour table can be ignored.
To get back to what I started to say is that optimized PAL games running in 50/60hz modded machines that are being run in 60hz, then the games runs 17% faster then the normal NTSC 60Hz game were intended to run in...
If any Turbografx EU owners out there would like to run in 60hz we could take a look at it.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: esteban on November 01, 2013, 03:58:32 PM
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Tatsujin on November 01, 2013, 08:01:21 PM
houly, what kind of a mess did I just read (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Black Tiger on November 02, 2013, 04:01:16 AM
I think it's a waste to ruin a collectible item like a PAL TurboGrafx by messing with the hardware in an attempt to get it to function closer to the millions of common consoles already available. I don't think that even in Europe it's cheaper to buy a TurboGrafx + shipping than it is to buy a PC Engine or TurboGrafx-16 + shipping.
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Xak on November 03, 2013, 05:21:56 AM
Light Gray is awesome
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Bloufo on November 03, 2013, 05:38:53 AM
Aah yes, the PAL TurboGrafx. Adds an extra flavor to the TG16/PC Engine family of systems. :P
(http://i44.tinypic.com/35i1x6q.jpg)
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: YANDMAN on November 03, 2013, 08:52:48 PM
I have two of these system sealed in box and another that i did use until i got my beautiful black ntsc real Turbo Grafx 16, The systems were released in parts of germany and sweden and possibly spain, They never got a u.k release although i did know the guy who bought all of the stock, he also had a ton of brand new original black turbo pads and tap's of which i bought a good number for spare, The systems obviously run at 50hz but they have beautiful rgb output which is far superior to the ntsc well it is for pal tv's anyways, The 16 is missing from the console log but not from the console box which is interesting...............Its a turbo you gotta love it
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Fidde_se on November 22, 2013, 09:58:23 AM
Saw that Otaku sells a mod service for this to make it run in 60Hz http://www.otakus-store.net/en/nec-pc-engine-gt-duo/48-turbografx-16-rgb-60hz-region-free-mod.html
Title: Re: The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."
Post by: Fidde_se on November 22, 2013, 10:26:31 AM
Maybe someday this will be accepted instead of the usual "it never saw a European release". As that was never really true.