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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: guyjin on December 03, 2004, 08:12:46 PM

Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: guyjin on December 03, 2004, 08:12:46 PM
Are there any little flaws with the PCE systems that drive you absolutely nuts?

For me, it's the obscenely short freaking controller cords. I mean, jeez, was cabling really that expensive? would it have killed them to add 3 feet of cord?
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: dj898 on December 03, 2004, 09:02:34 PM
i think in Japan they used to have console sitting in front of them when playing on telly so there is no need for long cable...
Title: Another thing...
Post by: guyjin on December 04, 2004, 04:07:58 PM
NEC seemed to realize we weren't Japanese at the most inopportune times, and NOT realize we weren't Japanese at the most inopportune times!
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: z026445 on December 05, 2004, 08:01:16 PM
Yeah, they are pretty short.  They're really long with the PCFX though.  That's nice.

Well, aside from cards not having batteries, I'm pretty pleased.
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: monads on December 06, 2004, 04:02:42 AM
1. No internal save features on HuCards
2. Really short controller cords (you just must have an extension cable unless you like being 1 foot away from the tv).
3. No second port for two player games (have to purchase a multitap).
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Jammaniaclord on December 26, 2004, 11:45:05 PM
The short controller chords, and the multitap for more than one player was my peeve as well.
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: esteban on January 10, 2005, 08:50:17 AM
well, this is similar to what has been said:

NEC forced you to purchase additonal hardware:

1. you had to buy a "turbobooster plus" to get stereo A / V jacks and the ability to save games via battery

2. had to purchase "turbo tap" for 2 + player

#1 was more irksome for me, since NES had A/V built in...

on software:

1. pce hucard cases didn't have a "clip" (as tg16 cases did) to hold hucards in place.

2. if you were buying new pce hucards, there wasn't a "back panel" with item description / screenshots

3. in U.S., when TTi cut costs by eliminating hucard cases altogether
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Black Tiger on April 09, 2005, 01:09:41 PM
1. Hardware isn't currently being produced

2. Software isn't currently being produced(other than Mind Rec)

3. I can't buy either in a local store(this was also a problem to a lesser degree back in the day)
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Keranu on April 09, 2005, 04:06:20 PM
Yeah my pet peeves were the short controller cord (I'm American, damn it!), no way to save for most HuCards since they couldn't hold batteries, the single only controller port, and even the uncomfortable controller ports, but that's not too big of a deal. The games make up for these hardware flaws ;) .
Title: PCE pet peeves
Post by: nodtveidt on April 09, 2005, 05:23:01 PM
I never had a problem with the length of the cords...I hated the fact that you had to buy the Tap but in reality...it made the design of the case more efficient (although I'm sure this wasn't their intention). As far as new games go...don't worry...soon enough... ;)

*hides his in-development RPG...*
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: guyjin on February 18, 2012, 02:24:30 PM
I've changed my mind. Short cords are no longer my pet peeve, because I have extension cords.

My new Turbob pet peeve is games that use Select to pause, and Run for something/nothing else. Valis 3 and Galaga 90, I'm looking at you.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: HercTNT on February 18, 2012, 05:37:51 PM
My pet peeve would be similar to what guyjin said. I always felt one of the advantages to the 16 bit consoles was more buttons providing deeper game play. Now don't flame me. I'm aware that more buttons does not automatically mean better game. I just wish nec and partners made more games taking advantage of the extra buttons controllers for a wider variation.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 18, 2012, 07:14:15 PM
I actually don't have much negative to say about this machine. It's was expensive as hell, and they made too much hardware, but really that's part of the charm. It's integral to the charm, really. It couldn't NOT be expensive and still be what it is.

Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: nat on February 18, 2012, 07:58:21 PM
My pet peeve would be similar to what guyjin said. I always felt one of the advantages to the 16 bit consoles was more buttons providing deeper game play. Now don't flame me. I'm aware that more buttons does not automatically mean better game. I just wish nec and partners made more games taking advantage of the extra buttons controllers for a wider variation.

If you buy a 3 button controller, either the Blaster or Avenue 3 button, Button III will assume the function of whatever the Run or Select button does in the games that use them for different functions.

In Legendary Axe 2, for example, Run throws the star bombs. On a 3 button pad, Button III can throw star bombs as well. Or in any of the Soldier games, Select changes ship speed. Button III can do that for you, too.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: sunteam_paul on February 18, 2012, 08:50:26 PM
(http://www.goodewoods.com/pix/misc/HolyNecropostingBatman.jpg)

I should make some PCE related ones of these...
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: HercTNT on February 18, 2012, 09:04:20 PM
Nat, once again i stand corrected. I had no idea. Then again I never owned a three button pad. does that apply to the 6 button pads as well, or do you have to have the three?  thanks for the info, there is hope for me yet  :lol:
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: PunkicCyborg on February 18, 2012, 09:17:10 PM
No just the 3 button controller, it has a switch on it that switches either select or start to button 3. Makes Barunba playable.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: guyjin on February 19, 2012, 05:08:27 AM
Nat, once again i stand corrected. I had no idea. Then again I never owned a three button pad. does that apply to the 6 button pads as well, or do you have to have the three?  thanks for the info, there is hope for me yet  :lol:

No, the 6 button pads work in a completely different way. select and run are unrelated to buttons 3,4,5, and 6 on the 6 button pad.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: nat on February 19, 2012, 06:20:41 AM
Yeah, what these other guys said re: 6 button pads.

It's a real shame, I always thought they should have released a pad that combined the 3 and 6 button functionality so that you could put it in 6 button mode for the games that needed it, and 3 button for everything else.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: tggodfrey on February 19, 2012, 07:20:40 AM
My pet peeve was always the Marketing.......system failed before it even began.
I didnt mind the short coard but I hated how stiff and heavy the cords were (compared to NES cords)
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: T2KFreeker on February 19, 2012, 08:03:02 AM
My pet peeve was always the Marketing.......system failed before it even began.
I didnt mind the short coard but I hated how stiff and heavy the cords were (compared to NES cords)

I agree with this. The ONLY heavy advertising I remember seeing for any of the Turbo systems was when the Turbografx FIRST came out and that was that for the console. Then there was the short ad spree for the Turbo Duo system with that creepy looking chick and the shite Duo with the speakers right before the Duo released. After that, zilch, well other than those terrible Johnny Turbo ads. "HARF!!!"  :roll:
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: turbokon on February 19, 2012, 08:10:26 AM
Not really a pet peeve but more of a wish list. What if the CPU was a Motorola 6800 instead of the 8 bit one! Imagine the gracphically possibilities!
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: nat on February 19, 2012, 09:53:15 AM
I'm not sure what difference a Motorola 68000 CPU would have on the graphics. I'm sure one of the technical people will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me the only difference would be in the way the games were coded; transparent to the end user.

I'm pretty sure the dual 16-bit VDC/VCE chipset handles all the graphical duties.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Arkhan on February 19, 2012, 03:40:34 PM
The 68k would have made coding way easier, including homebrew.  The 68k is C friendly.

It wouldn't have changed much graphically for the PCE though, unless they made the VDC capable of more obnoxious shit to go with the faster/better CPU.


Now, the SGX, yeah, it could've used a better CPU.  Two VDCs is tricky shit with the CPU already inside... :-/
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: HercTNT on February 19, 2012, 03:41:10 PM
someone in these forums described the difference between the two. The motorola 68000 is supposedly a more general purpose chip that does alot of stuff really well. Like a z80. The

Turbo's cpu is said to be more specialized and actually runs at a higher mips than the motorola. Its my understanding that the Turbo is actually faster in this regard. Dont jump me as i read

this somewhere in these forums.  More importantly don't whip out the "blasted and processed" shtick about the genny.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: turbokon on February 19, 2012, 04:29:43 PM
The two graphic chips can only do so much if the cpu cant handle it. Clock speed wise, the 6800 & The hu are about the same so i dont know how the 6800 gets its edge over the hu.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: soop on February 19, 2012, 10:31:24 PM
Well. As far as it goes, I suppose my only peeve is the lack of battery saves.

But then I think about the thread "what would you have done differently etc" and the thread about what could have been and the original design of the PCE. There's a lot to regret, but all in all, it's a great system with some awesome games.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Arkhan on February 20, 2012, 01:52:03 AM
wait are we talking about the 6800 or the 68000.

There is a massive difference, lol
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: DragonmasterDan on February 20, 2012, 02:15:40 AM
My pet peeve was always the Marketing.......system failed before it even began.
I didnt mind the short coard but I hated how stiff and heavy the cords were (compared to NES cords)


And the controller pinouts were large and easy to snap and break. I went through quite a few controllers as a kid because one of the pins would get bent or snap.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Arkhan on February 20, 2012, 02:52:36 AM
I love the controllers.  Especially the 3 inch long cables.

Gives me an excuse to sit right against the TV and melt my face.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: HercTNT on February 20, 2012, 04:19:13 AM
So thats what happened  :D :-"
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: guyjin on February 20, 2012, 04:46:25 AM
And the controller pinouts were large and easy to snap and break. I went through quite a few controllers as a kid because one of the pins would get bent or snap.

Really? I never had that problem. In fact, I kind of thought the larger connector was sturdier than it really needed to be.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: turbokon on February 20, 2012, 05:42:05 AM
wait are we talking about the 6800 or the 68000.

There is a massive difference, lol

Oops, my bad, I meant the 68000.

Again not really a pet peeve but would be nice:

Longer cords,
Composite a/v
Power on LED
Another controller port
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: turbokon on February 20, 2012, 05:47:56 AM
The larger controller connecter on the tg16 can be a pain to pull out, sometime it comes out of the controller altogether.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: DragonmasterDan on February 20, 2012, 06:06:05 AM
The larger controller connecter on the tg16 can be a pain to pull out, sometime it comes out of the controller altogether.

I had that happen to one controller as well.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: HercTNT on February 20, 2012, 11:13:29 AM
I always liked the larger plugs because they were more firm. Made me feel like my bumbling hands were not gonna break anything. The smaller plugs on my duo have alittle to much play in them for my liking. Always makes me nervous.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: motdelbourt on February 20, 2012, 11:53:05 AM
I had one Turbo Pad where the entire metal part of the plug would slide out. It wasn't a huge problem because you could just slide it back it, but I seem to remember it occasionally getting stuck in the TurboTap.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: DragonmasterDan on February 21, 2012, 01:19:59 PM
I always liked the larger plugs because they were more firm. Made me feel like my bumbling hands were not gonna break anything. The smaller plugs on my duo have alittle to much play in them for my liking. Always makes me nervous.

I don't like the fact that whether it's a tap or controller, they never seem firm while plugged into the Duo.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: nat on February 21, 2012, 02:03:31 PM
You guys must have all got a gimpy run of TG16 controllers when you were younger. When I was a kid playing with this shit, I never had any controller connector issues. I always thought those things were as robust as they come!
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: vestcoat on February 21, 2012, 02:33:21 PM
Many of these have been touched on, but here's my full list.

I think the TG16 designers made a lot of trade-offs, so peeves with corresponding good qualities are listed first.

Trade offs
*One controller port - first 16-bit system for $99
*No AV out - see above
*No battery backup - sleek media
*No light gun - no stupid light gun games
*2-player games almost nonexistent on TurboExpress - TE shares TG library
*Poor CDR compatibility - no region protection
*Multiple system cards - games released from '87-99

Peeves

*Only three tip books were published
*Barely covered in gaming magazines
*Frequently "discovered" by modern retro enthusiasts
*Side-mounted AV out (Duo)
*Cheap, leaky capacitors
*Short controller cords
*2-button controllers
*Janky controller pins stop working (Turbopads)
*Low-quality joysticks (U.S.)
*No first party wireless controllers (U.S.), system cleaner, or TE battery pack
*21 hucards sold without cases
*Crappy hucard adapters
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: roflmao on February 21, 2012, 04:48:06 PM
Wow, this is a well thought-out list.  My comments are below in bold.

Many of these have been touched on, but here's my full list.

I think the TG16 designers made a lot of trade-offs, so peeves with corresponding good qualities are listed first.

Trade offs
*One controller port - first 16-bit system for $99
*No AV out - see above
*No battery backup - sleek media
*No light gun - no stupid light gun games
*2-player games almost nonexistent on TurboExpress - TE shares TG library
*Poor CDR compatibility - no region protection It's funny that my TG16 w/ CD will play any CDR I throw at it, but the PCE Duo won't play hardly ANY of the CDR's I've tried.  But the original discs load noticably faster in the Duo.
*Multiple system cards - games released from '87-99 There's also been some great homebrew stuff released and more seemingly around the corner, which I guess could be said for other systems, but it's still awesome. 

Peeves

*Only three tip books were published ...and only 2 are worth owning. :(.
*Barely covered in gaming magazines
*Frequently "discovered" by modern retro enthusiasts
*Side-mounted AV out (Duo)
*Cheap, leaky capacitors
*Short controller cords
*2-button controllers Back when I had an Ave Pad 6 and the Hori Stick, I thoght they were awesome 6 button options, so I don't get this complaint, aside that they weren't pack-ins.  However didn't the RX have a 6-button pack-in? EDIT: Aha, the title of the thread reads PCE, but it's posted in the TG16 area.
*Janky controller pins stop working (Turbopads) Never experienced this, but don't doubt it.
*Low-quality joysticks (U.S.) See above
*No first party wireless controllers (U.S.), system cleaner, or TE battery pack
*21 hucards sold without cases This was a pretty sucky move, imo.
*Crappy hucard adapters My green diving board has been pretty trusty for 10+ years, though I have had one issue with Sapphire loading funny once.

Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: guyjin on February 21, 2012, 10:15:05 PM
*Only three tip books were published

you sure about this? What are the 3 tip books?
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: DragonmasterDan on February 22, 2012, 03:16:12 AM
You guys must have all got a gimpy run of TG16 controllers when you were younger. When I was a kid playing with this shit, I never had any controller connector issues. I always thought those things were as robust as they come!

Part of the problem might have been the fact that the metal design of those controllers only allowed for so many insertions and removals from a turbo tab or system. Generally speaking when I was done with the system I would have to put it away neatly due to my parents being picky about cleaning. This meant Unplugging the AC adapter from the wall, unplugging the RF from the system (though leaving the RF connected to the TV), then removing the controllers from the system or tap, rolling the cords up and putting them neatly into a cabinet. If you just left the controllers plugged in all the time they probably received a lot less wear and tear from being inserted and removed repeatedly.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Necromancer on February 22, 2012, 03:53:33 AM
you sure about this? What are the 3 tip books?

The four Turbob books I know of are TurboGrafx-16 and TurboExpress Secrets - Volume 1, TurboGrafx-16 and TurboExpress Secrets - Volume 2, Winner's Guide to TurboGrafx-16, and The Official TurboGrafx 16 Game Encyclopedia.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: vestcoat on February 22, 2012, 03:54:56 AM
*Multiple system cards - games released from '87-99 There's also been some great homebrew stuff released and more seemingly around the corner, which I guess could be said for other systems, but it's still awesome.  
I'm just talking about official releases (PCE Wonderboy in Monsterland in 87 to Dead of the Brain in 99).  All of the system cards are annoying, but they account for the PCE's surprising longevity.

What are the 3 tip books?
Bantam's Official TurboGrafx-16 Game Encyclopedia and Prima's two Secrets of the Games series.

You guys must have all got a gimpy run of TG16 controllers when you were younger. When I was a kid playing with this shit, I never had any controller connector issues. I always thought those things were as robust as they come!

Part of the problem might have been the fact that the metal design of those controllers only allowed for so many insertions and removals from a turbo tab or system. Generally speaking when I was done with the system I would have to put it away neatly due to my parents being picky about cleaning. This meant Unplugging the AC adapter from the wall, unplugging the RF from the system (though leaving the RF connected to the TV), then removing the controllers from the system or tap, rolling the cords up and putting them neatly into a cabinet. If you just left the controllers plugged in all the time they probably received a lot less wear and tear from being inserted and removed repeatedly.
Yeah, I've had two die on me and I was the original owner of one.  I take pretty good care of my stuff and I've never had any other controller failures since I got my first NES 23 years ago.  These days I keep my usual Turbopad permanently connected to an official NEC extension cord and that works well.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: DragonmasterDan on February 22, 2012, 04:00:15 AM

Yeah, I've had two die on me and I was the original owner of one.  I take pretty good care of my stuff and I've never had any other controller failures since I got my first NES 23 years ago.  These days I keep my usual Turbopad permanently connected to an official NEC extension cord and that works well.

Just on a side note, I've not had problems with Duo/PCE pads. It's the original giant TurboGrafx connectors that have been a source of pain. And I was also the original owner. I think I had two where the pins bent and once where the metal piece that holds the connector in place came out entirely when being removed from a turbo tap.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: Black Tiger on February 22, 2012, 05:17:52 AM
The Turbo connectors were perfect, but the Duo/PCE ones are kinda flimsy in comparison. The heavy Turbo-style grip bar on the Duo connections really weighs them down and keeps them wiggling and straining the port on the console. The Turbo connectors actually connect sturdy and the only time I experienced one separate from the cord, was when an ignorant overweight person walked across the four foot space between myself and the TV to walk into a wall and the force ripped the cable off the connector. But it's no different than when I stepped on the AC connector of my TurboDuo and damaged the console or dropped my Express with Turbo Vision connected onto a cement floor and it cracked the base of the antena. All cases were human error.

The Turbo and Duo Taps collecting dust inside were a bigger issue, but not hard to fix if you figured out the problem. But like some of the other peeves mentioned, it seemed to be an issue that took years to develop. I don't think that there's anything wrong with hardware having issues like the capacitors giving out after a decade or two.
Title: Re: PCE pet peeves
Post by: esteban on February 22, 2012, 07:59:12 AM
My pet peeve would be similar to what guyjin said. I always felt one of the advantages to the 16 bit consoles was more buttons providing deeper game play. Now don't flame me. I'm aware that more buttons does not automatically mean better game. I just wish nec and partners made more games taking advantage of the extra buttons controllers for a wider variation.


If you buy a 3 button controller, either the Blaster or Avenue 3 button, Button III will assume the function of whatever the Run or Select button does in the games that use them for different functions.

In Legendary Axe 2, for example, Run throws the star bombs. On a 3 button pad, Button III can throw star bombs as well. Or in any of the Soldier games, Select changes ship speed. Button III can do that for you, too.


Hell yes.

And since we are disinterring ancient threads, maybe I'll get folks to contribute a few games to the TBFG FAQ before it dies (again):

Three-Button-Friendly Games (TBFG* FAQ) (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9188.msg158373#msg158373)
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/ave3.jpg)(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcblaster.jpg)
AVENUE Pad 3 (NAPD-1001)
(NEC AVENUE)
PC BLASTER (ACP-01)
(シュールド・ウェーブ/タケル)
*Yes, "TBFG"
sounds ludicrous.


NOTE TO SELF: I gotta add Legendary Axe 2 to the TBFG FAQ now! Three-Button-Friendly Games (TBFG* FAQ)