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NEC PC-FX => PC-FX Discussion => Topic started by: dfrost on September 24, 2008, 04:23:31 PM
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Today,i read an old electronic gaming monthly,who visited nec in japan and got an interview with Tetsuya iguchi,manager planning division at NEC.The guy for the magazine asked a question,if the console can make 3-d game with polygon graphics.
The answer is:The pc-fx is capable of doing that.The game machines of the other companies are equipped with polygon processors that handle all the calculations for rendering 3-d graphics.We haven't adopted such an approach because the concept behind our system is different.If we adopted such a chip,we would have faced certain limitations in terms of overall cost.For example,the number of polygons that can be displayed in a second could be limited to so many tens of thousands or whatever.So when there are limitations,like say with virtua fighter,the figure aren't very smooth looking with a blocky appearance overall. So graphically,it's not very beautiful.Plus polygons are popular now,but we're not certain if they will remain popular in the future.
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Today,i read an old electronic gaming monthly,who visited nec in japan and got an interview with Tetsuya iguchi,manager planning division at NEC.The guy for the magazine asked a question,if the console can make 3-d game with polygon graphics.
The answer is:The pc-fx is capable of doing that.The game machines of the other companies are equipped with polygon processors that handle all the calculations for rendering 3-d graphics.We haven't adopted such an approach because the concept behind our system is different.If we adopted such a chip,we would have faced certain limitations in terms of overall cost.For example,the number of polygons that can be displayed in a second could be limited to so many tens of thousands or whatever.So when there are limitations,like say with virtua fighter,the figure aren't very smooth looking with a blocky appearance overall. So graphically,it's not very beautiful.Plus polygons are popular now,but we're not certain if they will remain popular in the future.
It sounds like the wrong question was asked by this interviewer.
He needed to first ask how many polygons the FX is capable of making without the 3D add on chip. (probably hundreds to thousands) Secondly he heeded to ask about how many more polys that chip would allow it to process. and it might not have hurt to push the guy for a date on when the FX 3D board would come out.
What a wasted chance at a useful interview.
Then he needed to ask when the 3D board for the FX was comming out
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Plus polygons are popular now,but we're not certain if they will remain popular in the future.
NEC really bet on the wrong horse.
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Plus polygons are popular now,but we're not certain if they will remain popular in the future.
NEC really bet on the wrong horse.
So did Sega and Nintendo until they both freaked out seeing the specs on the PSX.
Sony was the ONLY company in that fight who actually sided with polygons if you look at how the hardware is made. Everyone else added polygons as a desperation attempt to not fall behind.
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Plus polygons are popular now,but we're not certain if they will remain popular in the future.
NEC really bet on the wrong horse.
So did Sega and Nintendo until they both freaked out seeing the specs on the PSX.
Sony was the ONLY company in that fight who actually sided with polygons if you look at how the hardware is made. Everyone else added polygons as a desperation attempt to not fall behind.
I know that is true for Saturn, but I think the N64 was designed to be a polygon powerhouse from the get go. Being partnered with Silicon Graphics and all. It really the only one of the 2 to pretty much not have any 2D games at all.
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The n64 did have a handful of 2D games. most of them were not released in the US however.
The 3D0 was another console that bet heavily on FMV. I wonder if the FX could have pushed as many polygons as the 3D0, if they'd tried...
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Probably...
The N64 had some really great 2D games actually, which I tend to like better than 90% of the 3D offerings on that system...
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I know that is true for Saturn, but I think the N64 was designed to be a polygon powerhouse from the get go. Being partnered with Silicon Graphics and all. It really the only one of the 2 to pretty much not have any 2D games at all.
Lots of the graphics on the N64 are actually 2D, not 3D. They are simply 2D objects which roate so they always seem to be facing you and it makes them seem 3D. I cannot find the article, but I read quite some time ago in the Dev process of the N64 they were going to give it only slightly better than Star Fox 3D graphics and were going to focus massivly on 2D elements. Then they got their hands on what sony was working on for a console which could do 2D, but was much more suited to 3D, so they changed the Ultra 64 to give it many more times the simulated look of 3D, while keeping very little of the game 3D.
One chip in the N64 is designed to be a polygon powerhouse and this chip is a later addition to the board. and if by 500,000 - 1,000,000 unshaded, uncolored, useless polygons, it could output a lot.
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I cannot find the article, but I read quite some time ago in the Dev process of the N64 they were going to give it only slightly better than Star Fox 3D graphics and were going to focus massivly on 2D elements. Then they got their hands on what sony was working on for a console which could do 2D, but was much more suited to 3D, so they changed the Ultra 64 to give it many more times the simulated look of 3D, while keeping very little of the game 3D.
Sounds like Nintendo was really asleep at the switch, considering that the PlayStation came out 18 months earlier and its capabilities were known (more or less) months in advance of its release.
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I cannot find the article, but I read quite some time ago in the Dev process of the N64 they were going to give it only slightly better than Star Fox 3D graphics and were going to focus massivly on 2D elements. Then they got their hands on what sony was working on for a console which could do 2D, but was much more suited to 3D, so they changed the Ultra 64 to give it many more times the simulated look of 3D, while keeping very little of the game 3D.
Sounds like Nintendo was really asleep at the switch, considering that the PlayStation came out 18 months earlier and its capabilities were known (more or less) months in advance of its release.
It's more like Nintendo playing their come in last game like they enjoy doing so they can see what everyone else is making and they can even get an idea of how well it is doing incase they need to make last minute hardware changes. With the N64 the ideas behind it were that Carts would outlast CDs as a format and that people wanted powerful 2D games while having games as good as whatever other hack-3D games that were comming out.
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continued:Our system is designed to enable instantaneous playback of graphic data contained on cd.This graphic data can certainly be composed of polygons.The big difference is that we can put highly detailed graphics made using a workstation on cd and call it up as a complete picture.With a machine that calls up polygon data for processing inside the system,the number of displayable polygons is limited.In contrast,with our system,we can accept beautiful,preprocessed graphics and play them back immediately.Of course with a system that has polygon processor,it is possible to rotate graphics and so on to alter vantage points.In our case,we have to have that graphic data available and call it up from cd.so that is our system's drawback.But in terms of visuals,we can provide high quality graphics.If you would consider for a moment,all games are composed of moving pictures.Even if a game uses polygons,it ultimately is still a two-dimensional image when you see it on tv.That's why we put the most emphasis on high speed animation playback.If a system has large a memory base and high speed animation playback,then it would be smarter to simply play back created images rather than creating image on the fly.Of course,the system as it stands isn't fast enough physically.For instance,the cd-rom drive isn't quadruple speed,so it does have drawbacks in creating 3-d worlds.but when the system gets faster,it would be better to simply summon forth great graphics from cd instead of creating polygon graphics.
another question Is this machine designed as a stand-alone computer or just an add-on to a computer
A:We,re considering this as a stand-alone system,not only for games,but also music,edutainment and other types of software.We're also considering developing a keyboard for using this machine as a terminal for doing network communications.
Q what king of game will you be offering
A We have man jong,baseball,pachinko,racing games,an RPG,golf games,pro wrestling games,simulations and many others coming.We're especially proud of what our machine can do with golf games.compared to 3DO for example,we can output far more beautiful graphics.
And a see a picture, a man playing battle heat,on selector character screen you can see a character with blue face and a another one with big red Glass.And on the table 3 cd case
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We're especially proud of what our machine can do with golf games.compared to 3DO for example,we can output far more beautiful graphics.
I can't wait for that one to come out.
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The only N64 game I played was Mischief Makers.
Everything else sucked. >_<
Its a shame fmv games didnt catch on They're impressive and fun.
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Sounds like Nintendo was really asleep at the switch, considering that the PlayStation came out 18 months earlier and its capabilities were known (more or less) months in advance of its release.
a) companies always lie about their tech specs. (sony espeially, but that wasn't known yet.)
b) console designs don't happen overnight. I think they started designing the PCE as early as 1985.
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a) companies always lie about their tech specs. (sony espeially, but that wasn't known yet.)
b) console designs don't happen overnight. I think they started designing the PCE as early as 1985.
True, yet Sega managed to realize the importance of 3d and make last minute changes to the Saturn to better compete with the PlayStation, even though the Saturn launched before Sony's machine. Unless the N64 was designed about the same time as the Saturn and PlayStation (which wouldn't surprise me), then had Nintendo been paying close attention to the market, they wouldn't have needed to make late changes to the hardware.
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We're especially proud of what our machine can do with golf games.compared to 3DO for example,we can output far more beautiful graphics.
I can't wait for that one to come out.
Yea I remember when that EGM came out and reading this. I think this same mag had coverage of Snatcher for Sega cd. This was a winter 94 issue if I remember right. Back then even, I mean, I loved Nec, the Turbo and all hard core, but spec wise side by side, the 3DO and PC-FX were pretty different with each having neat strengths and weaknesses, but in the end the 3DO power wise could trounce it I felt, and even now have seen nothing released on the PC-FX to change my mind on that, especially in the golf genre. :lol:
Specs on paper:
PC-FX
CPU
32-Bit NEC V810 RISC running at 21.5 MHz, 15.5 MIPS
System board specs
2 MB main RAM
1 MB shared RAM (for background generators, CD-ROM DMA, motion decoder, and ADPCM)
256 KB dedicated VRAM (for HuC6270 chips)
1 MB OS ROM
256 KB CD Buffer
32 KB back-up RAM
Video
Maximum On-screen colors: 16,777,000
Resolutions: 256x240p, 320x240p, 256x480i, 320x480i
6 background layers
2 sprite layers
1 motion decoder layer generated from RLE-encoded or JPEG-like data
Sound
16-Bit Stereo CD-DA
2 ADPCM channels at up to ~31.5 kHz with left/right panning
6 5-bit sample channels with left/right panning
CD-ROM Drive
2X CD-ROM, 300KB / Sec
3DO:
CPU
* 32-bit 12.5 MHz RISC CPU (ARM60) made by Advanced RISC Machines (roughly equivalent to 25 MHz 68030)
* Math co-processor
Video
* Interpolated 640x480 resolution output to screen, upsampled from 320x240 or 320x480 internal resolution with either 16 bit palettized color (from 24 bits) or 24 bit truecolor.
* Two accelerated video co-processors capable of producing 9-16 million pixels per second (36-64 megapix/s interpolated), distorted, scaled, rotated and texture mapped.
System board specs
* 50Mb/s bus speed
* 36 DMA channels
* 2 megabytes of main RAM
* 1 megabyte of VRAM
* 2 expansion ports
* 32kb SRAM
Sound
* 16-bit stereo sound
* 44.1 kHz sound sampling rate
* Supports Dolby Surround Sound
* Custom 16-bit Digital Signal Processor (DSP)
Media
* Double-speed (depending on manufacturer) 300 kB/s data transfer CD-ROM drive with 32 kB RAM buffer
* Multitasking 32-bit operating system
Maybe if they would have pushed harder for more arcade like titles that stressed major sprite use or released something mind blowing, then yea they could have proven that, but they never did. Really in the end, Nec simply forgot what their fan base wanted and made no attempt to do anything outstanding with the platform.