PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Lord Thag on October 23, 2008, 05:47:54 AM
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You know, I used to be a huge shooter fan back in the eighties and nineties. Over the years, I lost interest until I almost forgot about the genre entirely. I picked up a few of the good shooters for the ps2 when they came out (R-type, Gradius V etc), and while they were fun, they were more of a curiosity, not something I was really in to. Since I've started collecting TG-16 stuff, and more recently, PCE titles, I've come to a conclusion:
I don't like modern shooters.
I think that's why I got out of the genre. Modern shooters are way to technical. Ikaruga is a good example of what I'm talking about. It's almost like a fighting game, in the sense that it's all about doing all these clever scoring tricks. Most of the new shooters feature ridiculously short levels, followed by your typical 'bullet hell' boss who spews ridiculous amounts of fire in a set pattern. Each game has some kind of 'gimmick' that directly relates to score. Ikaruga has the two color thing, Castle Shikigami is about proximity. The games is far more focused on manipulating these tricks for score, than actually being a shooter.
The shooters on the PCE, especially all the never-been-played-by-me ones I've been ordering from Japan, are a different animal entirely. These games are different. They're about the levels. Long, glorious levels filled with creative enemies that are (usually) not in a set pattern. The games are long too. No two minute levels here, thank you, and your score is based not on any trick, but sheer survivability and reflex. I find them to be more challenging too, often because there are random elements to the enemies or their attacks. Patterns are to be had, of course, but sheer skill plays more of a role.
Anyway, I find that playing all of these great shooters on the PCE has reminded me of why I used to love these kinds of games. The good news is that there are so many of them on the system, I will not be running out of good shooters to play for years.
So thank you, PC Engine, for reminding me how awesome a good shooter is! You can keep your modern pattern based bullet hell shooters, thank you. I'll take a good old blast-a-thon anyday.
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I always used to hate shoot 'em ups, until I encountered the PC Engine. Games like Super Star Soldier and Kyukyoku Tiger made me completely change my opinion of the genre. The shooters of that era are indeed the best. The later design fashion of littering the screen with bullets never appealed to me, although I imagine it was developed as a ploy to get you to pop in another credit at the arcades.
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I always used to hate shoot 'em ups, until I encountered the PC Engine. Games like Super Star Soldier and Kyukyoku Tiger made me completely change my opinion of the genre. The shooters of that era are indeed the best. The later design fashion of littering the screen with bullets never appealed to me, although I imagine it was developed as a ploy to get you to pop in another credit at the arcades.
I agree Thag. My exposure to "modern" shooters is limited to MAME, but the "bullet-hell" bosses are typical of the genre now. PCE/TG rules in the shootie department, hands down. And yeah, the bullet-hell boss is most definitely a quarter muncher tactic, which makes playing them on MAME unenjoyable when you can insert as many quarters/credits as you wish. I like beating shooties based on skill, not on how many quarters I have.
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Yep, the PC-E is the best for old school shooters.
Although recently I've been collecting some Mega Drive stuff and there's a lot of similar style shooters.
Musha Aleste, Bari-Arm, Thunder Force IV, Elemental Master, Gunstar Heroes, Dennin Aleste etc. and that's only the ones I've got round to buying.
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Gotta admit the shooters which i've played on the PC Engine have been ace. Gunhed.Super Star Soldier, Parodius, you cant fault them. And I know i've only scratched the very tip of the PCE shooter iceberg.
Shooters of the early nineties are probably my faveroute, not just for the PCE, but stuff like the thunder force and (lol know there on PCE too) hellfire and zerowing series on MD. And Axelay and Super Aleste for SNES.
Personally I liked Ikaruga, the co-op mode especially. And Gradius 5 seems good aswell. But they are about the only recent(ish) ones I like.
They do say the saturn is a bit of a shooter powerhouse though.
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Yeah, there are a few new shooters that I like. Gradius V is fun, if not quite what I expected from the franchise. Raiden III is definately old school, and very fun. R-Type Final is excellent as well, but that's about it for the new stuff.
I have a pile of PCE shooters on the way. Salamander, Gradius, Image Fight, and a couple of others. There are soooo many to choose from. I'm currently hooked on Final Soldier, Download and Xevious Fardraut Saga. Good stuff, that!
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sure the PCE was the 8/16Bit shooter Queen without any smallest doubts. therefore i love the system at most. get teh 110!! NOW! :twisted:
as for the new bullet sprayer (like dodonpachi serie etc.) are called quater muncher, i can't agree completely, since those games where more intended for the maniac japanese arcade market than for the already died 2D oversea market.
so a typical "chain-score-bullet-sprayer"-player would never use a 2nd credit to continue where he lost his last live. they try to reach a 1cc. it's kinda rule within those real maniac players, and the industry (like cave etc.) which are maniacs as well, try to encounter with the users.
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Don't forget gate Of Thunder. Lights off, Volume up... the blissness! :pray:
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Yeah, there are a few new shooters that I like. Gradius V is fun, if not quite what I expected from the franchise. Raiden III is definately old school, and very fun. R-Type Final is excellent as well, but that's about it for the new stuff.
I have a pile of PCE shooters on the way. Salamander, Gradius, Image Fight, and a couple of others. There are soooo many to choose from. I'm currently hooked on Final Soldier, Download and Xevious Fardraut Saga. Good stuff, that!
Image Fight is a great one! All the enemies in Image Fight do appear based on a pattern, but some have random movement, which depend on where you are on screen.
The stage 4 boss is an early take on bullet hell!
Would love to hear your thoughts on Image Fight when you get to it! I would love some competition at the High-Score thread as well!
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No one bothered to mention Nexzr...come on, it's only one of the best vertical shooters for SCD. Overall it's a well made shmup, not too difficult and loads of fun. Once you beat it you'll keep coming back to play it over and over again.
I love bullet-hell shooters btw. For those who dislike it, you just need practice and a steady hand.
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I just downloaded DonPachi and DoDonPachi for MAME and I was pleasantly surprised. Never knew dodging bullets could be made into an art form. I also beat the first level of DoDonPachi with one life, while just fooling around. I was kinda shocked. I need to record that sometime.
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just check out youtube, there are thousands of CAVE shooter records. also from 1CC or even 1LC maniax :)
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Would love to hear your thoughts on Image Fight when you get to it! I would love some competition at the High-Score thread as well!
You're on :)
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Would love to hear your thoughts on Image Fight when you get to it! I would love some competition at the High-Score thread as well!
You're on :)
:clap: :twisted: :clap:
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Would love to hear your thoughts on Image Fight when you get to it! I would love some competition at the High-Score thread as well!
You're on :)
:clap: :twisted: :clap:
This should be interesting. :clap: :dance: 8)
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This is a great thread and one I wholeheartedly agree with. Turbo/PCE forever!
I always used to hate shoot 'em ups, until I encountered the PC Engine.
Same here! Though the one two shooters that really, really got me into the genre were Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder. When I first played GoT, I didn't think much of it since I wasn't really into shooters at that point, but once I saw Level 5 - Crown being played in a Duo promo in episode three of PCEFXTV, I was blown away and knew I had to play it more. Then Lords came around and rocked my world too and at the same time I was becoming more interested in all the other shooters I briefly played.
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Don't forget gate Of Thunder. Lights off, Volume up... the blissness! :pray:
Awesome quote! I need to save that (yeah I'm a nerd and save posts like this :P ).
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The PC Engine certainly has the greatest collection of awesome shmups, though there's quite a few gems on the Genesis and SNES as well. Much like sunteam, I wasn't much of a shooter fan prior to getting a Duo and Gate of Thunder; since then, I've been hooked through the bag like a heroin addict.
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lol..i always ask my self, why the hell of all 8/16bit systems exactly the '87 PCE is the action queen? she came out exactly 1yr (plus 2 days) before the MD and more than 3yrs before the SFC, which is a big gap of time. but she beats em all!! :P
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i always ask my self, why the hell of all 8/16bit systems exactly the '87 PCE is the action queen? she came out exactly 1yr (plus 2 days) before the MD and more than 3yrs before the SFC, which is a big gap of time. but she beats em all!!
Yeah, me too. The PCE/TG16 single handedly lured me back into 16 bit gaming. Genesis was ok, but the colors are washed out, and the sound is terrible. The SNES was prettier, but I dislike (and still do) the types of games that Nintendo usually publishes. In short, I really didn't care about anything post Atari. Then, this summer, I lucked into about 75% of the TG16 library in one fell swoop. I had one, back in the day, but I picked it up only when Toys R Us was clearing them out, and I only had a couple of the less popular titles.
As I played all the games, I was simply astounded at how good many of them were, and how much faster (than snes) and prettier (than genesis) the games were, on average. There were a lot of original titles as well. I joined here, and you guys pointed me towards the PC Engine, and once I opened THAT door, well, the genie was definately out of the bottle. The NEC systems are firmly cemented as my favorite 16 bit systems of all time, hands down.
It's for several reasons too. First, regardless what the on-paper specs are, the Turbo/PCE just look way better on a real TV. The colors are bright and vibrant, and generally detailed. The sound is the best of the era too. Sure, SNES had more on paper, and the geny had that 'FM' sound chip, but neither of them, on average, sounds as good. I couldn't tell you why. The other (huge) advantage the Turbo has is speed. It runs laps around the snes, and while the geny is on par speed wise, it's ugly in comparison. Combine that with a huge library of fantastic japanese-only games, and more shooters than you can count, and it's no accident that the TG16 reigns supreme in it's era. I also find it holds up today far better than the other two, due to the large number of ooriginal games and shooters.
And collecting the japanese games is uncharted territory. Several hundred games I've never played or seen, and that, is a wonderful thing :)
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I consider the Turbo to be the mix of Genesis and SNES, both technically and gamely: Turbo has the speed of the Genesis and the colors of the SNES; Turbo has the action of Genesis games and the roleplaying of SNES games.