PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum

NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion => Topic started by: Duo_R on November 27, 2008, 09:30:42 AM

Title: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on November 27, 2008, 09:30:42 AM: This thread is for listing what RGB to Component product you are using for your PC Engine / TurboDuo. Of course you have to have RGB tapped, but after that you have the opportunity to get the best video output possible for modern TV's (component vid).

This is a mainly a review for the RGB / YUV box listed below. I have updated the ebay link. Also another update: the seller now includes a 110v power adapter with this auction when shipping to the U.S. Candada, or other countries that require 110v.

the price has been reduced from Specialty AV seller. Link to an auction:

NOTE - the AC adapter is for UK power standards. You will need to source another AC adapter (check with seller).

(http://cgi.ebay.com/SEGA-SCART-RGB-YPbPr-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-/220698773448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3362ac07c8[/url)

(http://www.retro-accessories.co.uk/siteimages/shirorisu/128972/1211713/f_346450.jpg)

Atlona / CYM board:
Price $48.95 on Ebay
Ebay Seller: specialty-av
(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)

Audio mod that can be done on them:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177830&highlight=transcoder

The Atlona / CYM boards could be the non-modders perfect solution. With the right parts you could take your already RGB modded console (must have 8din port), a 8din Duo to Scart cable (made by Chaotic) and use this to extract the audio:

(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)

Grab some Scart cables for your other systems, and a very nice and painless solution. I actually hacked mine, so no Scart cables needed (review coming soon).

************************************************************************************************************

Neobitz Board:

Price - $85 - Neobitz (Component Video/SVideo/Composite Video) Fully Assembled
(http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/9242/neobitzboard8on.html)
http://www.neobitz.com/
Quote
Please bear with me as I design this site. You can purcase the Neobitz Video Board by contacting me directly at jmkurtz@columbus.rr.com.

************************************************************************************************************

Jrok 4.1 Component board:
http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGBv4/index.html
Price - $55 + shipping, sync cleaner is $10

(http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGBv4/component_only_side.jpg)

************************************************************************************************************

Arcade RGBS CGA/EGA/YUV TO 2 VGA CONVERTER Product No. A-24
http://www.arcademvs.com/ARCADE_ACESSERIOR.htm
US$49.99/ea (US$39.99 OVER 5 pcbs one time)

(http://www.arcademvs.com/accesseriors/2vga.html)

I am not sure if this has been tested on Duo yet - I would expect lower performance compared to a Jrok

And some reading for you:

Atlona / CYM boxes:
Audio mod:http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177830&highlight=transcoder
Minijack mod: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3505.msg24167#msg24167
Scart switching: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=123998

Neobits:
Basic info: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75610

Jrok:
General review: http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/JROK-RGB-to-Video-Encoder-12142006-01.html

Arcade RGBS Product A-24:
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3484.0

Diagrams for building RGB cables: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: kid_rondeau on November 27, 2008, 10:12:07 AM: I saw the Jrok unit a while back, but I'd heard it doesn't work with the TG/Duo for some reason. Has anyone confirmed that it does?
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on November 27, 2008, 11:31:49 AM: the older Svid Jrok boards never worked right (anything 3.0 series). The "newer" 4.1 component boards are supposed to work better. Zeon has the 4.1 component only boards and stated it works but the colors need adjustment (on board and on the TV). Zeon keep me honest here, but he is the only one I know of that has the Jrok 4.1 on a TurboGrafx/PC Engine.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: ooPo on November 27, 2008, 02:28:23 PM: To be fair, I said the 9A60 worked for the Dreamcast. :)

But it should work... maybe. Probably. It works for a TG16 through an xrgb2+, at least.

It doesn't do anything fancy to the signal, just the color, so it should probably work fine. If I had an rgb-capable TV I would test it.

BTW, the xrgb2+ is incredibly awesome. Highly recommended if you're gaming on a hdtv!
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Zeon on November 27, 2008, 04:06:59 PM: Quote from: Duo_R on November 27, 2008, 11:31:49 AM
the older Svid Jrok boards never worked right (anything 3.0 series). The "newer" 4.1 component boards are supposed to work better. Zeon has the 4.1 component only boards and stated it works but the colors need adjustment (on board and on the TV). Zeon keep me honest here, but he is the only one I know of that has the Jrok 4.1 on a TurboGrafx/PC Engine.

The color is off, you can get close on some games by adjusting your tv settings and the pots on the jrok itself. Red is noticeably overdriven, games like Bonk's Adventure, Bonk's Revenge which make good use of reds, are the worst looking, and the most off color wise. My theory is that the jrok does something funny with the huc6280's color signals in converting to to component, either that or the huc6280 outputs the colors on the red green and blue lines significantly different from the way most chips do.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on December 05, 2008, 08:34:10 PM: so I picked up the first option listed in this post, the Scart RGB to YUV adapter. Anyone have a good source for PS2 Scart cable? I can hack this box, but it is a nice setup and not sure I want to hack this sucker up. I found PS2 RGB cables pretty cheap on ebay, can anyone vouch for this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RGB-Scart-AV-Video-Audio-Cable-for-Sony-Playstation-PS2_W0QQitemZ250334295007QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Games_Accessories?hash=item250334295007&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

(http://www.vista24.biz/ebay/tpschb/v2b38414b.jpg)
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: GohanX on December 06, 2008, 02:30:52 AM: Duo R: I'm not sure if it's the exact same cable, but it looks like the same PS1 Scart cable that I have. It's not an exteremely high quality cable, but it gets the job done. On the Duo it seems fine, I don't notice any distortion or interference or anything. I compared a PSOne with the Scart/YUV trancoder to a PS2 slim with a component connection running Strikers 1945, and the PS2 was slightly better. I think this is due more to the PS2's awesome component out than the PSOne's RGB cable though.

I've been meaning to get an Duo scart cable from Chaoticjelly, but I haven't gotten around to it. I emailed him a while back and he said that the cables that he makes for his modded systems should have the same pinout as our systems.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on December 14, 2008, 07:23:41 PM: ok - review coming. I got the Atlona / CYM board working great (thanks JKM, Ogre, others). It is currently working awesome for the Duo. For my Genesis something a little funny happens with sync on occasion with games. Sometimes it is no problem, other times u see a little waviness on the top of the screen. I think it might be due to not having the 75ohms that are supposed to be in the RGB lines. The genesis did not work properly until I added 220uf caps in the RGB lines via my custom RGB cable. I imagine that someone that makes the Genny Scart cables builds the caps and resistors???

Zeon and Mithos have both tested the Jrok and Neobitz encoders, so all confirmed to be working on Duo (and other systems). So there are 3 main choices right now. The spirit of this thread is to get you reviews, screenshots, additional info on RGB to Component vid for your Duo. From the faint of heart modders, to the hardcore....hopefully this will help consolodate the information I had to browse all over the net to find.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: albinoMithos on December 14, 2008, 08:32:28 PM: In case anyone is wondering here is some info I got on the Neobitz Encoder:

Quote from: Jeff Kurtz
I have three Neobitz products available:

85 - Neobitz (Component Video/SVideo/Composite Video) Fully Assembled
55 - Neobitz-S (SVideo/Composite Video) Fully Assembled
35 - Neobitz-S (SVideo/Composite Video) DIY Kit

The fully assembled boards come with all video jacks, matching jacks for stereo, pre-wired harnesses, and a wiring diagram. The DIY kit includes the parts for the board, parts for the harnesses (no wire), and a wiring diagram. Build instructions can be found on my site at www.neobitz.com (http://www.neobitz.com/).

The Neobitz board can be configured with an LM1881 that serves as a sync cleaning circuit. The circuit can be turned on and off via a small switch. The Neobitz-S also supports an LM1881 circuit but it does not have an on/off switch.

If you would like this on your Neobitz or Neobitz-S board, I charge $5 for this addition.

Shipping is $5 per order within the US. If you're overseas, let me know what country you're in so that I can compute shipping for you.

If you would like to order one of my boards, I accept PayPal at jkurtz01@gmail.com.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.

Thanks,
Jeff

Adjustable Pots and a LED are optional and you need to ask for them to get them.
With the Neobitz board (composite, s-video, and component) we ended up using a Jrok sync cleaner to get things to work with the Genny, SNES, and TG-16.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Michael Helgeson on December 15, 2008, 01:10:28 AM: So after that you got the NeoBitz to work via S-vid and component on TG hardware after adding a Jrok sync cleaner? How was the pic quality? Can you guys take some pics or screen caps?
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: albinoMithos on December 15, 2008, 08:32:20 AM: Quote from: PC-ENGINE HELL on December 15, 2008, 01:10:28 AM
So after that you got the NeoBitz to work via S-vid and component on TG hardware after adding a Jrok sync cleaner? How was the pic quality? Can you guys take some pics or screen caps?

We haven't tried out S-Video yet because no one felt like wiring up the jack at that time, but the component output was nice. There was a very slight blur with the picture, but overall the quality was very nice. I'll try to get pics of the quality out later tonight.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on December 15, 2008, 09:50:40 AM: Interesting if S-vid board works good, it would be a very inexpensive solution if you use the "build kit." They don't have build kit for the component vid I take it? I know the Jrok S-video does not work properly. This Neobitz component board is the most expensive out of the listed units, somehow we need to quantify that into our assessment of this board. Is it worth the extra cost above the others???

Quote from: Mithos on December 15, 2008, 08:32:20 AM
Quote from: PC-ENGINE HELL on December 15, 2008, 01:10:28 AM
So after that you got the NeoBitz to work via S-vid and component on TG hardware after adding a Jrok sync cleaner? How was the pic quality? Can you guys take some pics or screen caps?

We haven't tried out S-Video yet because no one felt like wiring up the jack at that time, but the component output was nice. There was a very slight blur with the picture, but overall the quality was very nice. I'll try to get pics of the quality out later tonight.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: albinoMithos on December 15, 2008, 11:35:54 AM: Well if you're getting a neobitz generally you're gonna be using it for the neo-geo specifically. That's what kurtz made it for as it works best with that hardware. As far as I know there is no DIY kit for the component one. Things to know though: from what I've heard the composite and s-video are absolute crap on the jrok where as they're excellent on the neobitz. However, the Jrok has better component when it comes to non-neo hardware. I can say that composite does look pretty damn good on the neobitz. Another thing to look at is since the neobitz is made for the neo-geo AES/MVS it might have some compatibility issues when it comes to other arcade hardware so it's not the ideal encoder to use with a supergun but it is really nice for a CMVS project, a MVS only supergun, or upgrading an AES's video output.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: GohanX on December 17, 2008, 04:01:55 PM: I don't know about using the Neobitz on the Duo, but I'll throw in two cents about the quality of it vs the Atlona transcoder.

I have a 1 slot MVS consolized by Jeff Kurtz, which means it should have a Neobitz S video/component converter in there. I also have a Neo CD system that I use with the RGB out into the Atlona box. It's a pretty close call, but I'd give a slight clarity advantage to the Atlona transcoder. However, they are both awesome.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: TH0R on January 01, 2009, 04:47:19 AM: how could a hdmi to component adapter be constructed? they are just too damn expensive
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: RaZiel on January 03, 2009, 03:57:43 PM: This is what I use to tap my RGB and it works great!!!

(http://www.aliexpress.com/maintain.html)

I also have one of these as well I used to use but I had to mod it on order to get audio as it only does video out of the box. The HDMI one was like $80 USD while this one only cost around $35 shipped and it works great. Only reason I went to the HDMI one is my HDTV wouldn't display video using component cables so I had to use my older TV and who wants to pull out a TV just ot game. The HDMI one works flawlessly and supports audio right out of the box. It looks a little better also.

(http://www.lektropacks.com/uploads/media/csy2100-combi.jpg)
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on January 03, 2009, 04:56:07 PM: Where did u get the HDMI one? And also, where did u get the Scart to Component box for $35??? I got mine for like $50. Are u in the US?

Quote from: RaZiel on January 03, 2009, 03:57:43 PM
This is what I use to tap my RGB and it works great!!!

(http://www.aliexpress.com/maintain.html)

I also have one of these as well I used to use but I had to mod it on order to get audio as it only does video out of the box. The HDMI one was like $80 USD while this one only cost around $35 shipped and it works great. Only reason I went to the HDMI one is my HDTV wouldn't display video using component cables so I had to use my older TV and who wants to pull out a TV just ot game. The HDMI one works flawlessly and supports audio right out of the box. It looks a little better also.

(http://www.lektropacks.com/uploads/media/csy2100-combi.jpg)
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: TH0R on January 07, 2009, 03:00:34 PM: any way to run hdmi from my ps3 to component on my tv, it's not an hdmi tv, the generic component cables i've been trying out are giving me problems
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on January 21, 2009, 03:36:10 PM: bump for RaZiel's awesome price on Atlona.....

Quote from: Duo_R on January 03, 2009, 04:56:07 PM
Where did u get the HDMI one? And also, where did u get the Scart to Component box for $35??? I got mine for like $50. Are u in the US?

Quote from: RaZiel on January 03, 2009, 03:57:43 PM
This is what I use to tap my RGB and it works great!!!

(http://www.aliexpress.com/maintain.html)

I also have one of these as well I used to use but I had to mod it on order to get audio as it only does video out of the box. The HDMI one was like $80 USD while this one only cost around $35 shipped and it works great. Only reason I went to the HDMI one is my HDTV wouldn't display video using component cables so I had to use my older TV and who wants to pull out a TV just ot game. The HDMI one works flawlessly and supports audio right out of the box. It looks a little better also.

(http://www.lektropacks.com/uploads/media/csy2100-combi.jpg)
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on February 16, 2009, 10:05:44 PM: Bump - edited the first post with some news update:

the Atlona box has been reduced on ebay to $44.99 and the seller is even accepting best offers! :clap:

NOTE - the seller says they are selling with UK AC adapter, when I bought mine I PM'ed the seller and he sent me a US adapter. UPDATE - last message I sent the seller said they weren't sure they could source US AC Adapters. I will post up specs of my adapter when I get a chance later.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YPbPr-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler_W0QQitemZ220359280382QQihZ012QQcategoryZ14965QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Also, with member PCENGINESALES making RGB to Scart cables, we could have a very nice partnership to get some of you component goodness. Here is what I see:

Buy the RGB to Component box:

(http://www.lektropacks.com/uploads/media/csy2100-combi.jpg)

+

a RGB Scart cable from PCEngineSales:
http://www.retro-accessories.co.uk/ourshop/prod_346450-Neo-Geo-AESCDCDZ-RGB-SCART-cable.html

(http://www.retro-accessories.co.uk/siteimages/shirorisu/128972/1211713/f_346450.jpg)

+

a RGB mod on your Duo console
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1013/180012328ouv7.html)

= RGB TO COMPONENT VIDEO!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

This is the route that I went on my Duo-R, however I custom built my own cable. I am going to test some of PCENGINESALES cables to see if I get the same results (which I should) and we could have a very nice solution for everyone. More to come...
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Platinumfungi on March 07, 2009, 03:13:24 AM: Duo-R or anyone who has purchased the Atlona / CYM board from "specialty-av" on eBay - Did you make a "best offer" or just "buy it now"?

They have many "best offer" auctions currently listed at $44.95 plus $6.95 shipping cost currently. I'm wondering how much they will actually sell these for.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on March 07, 2009, 07:15:07 AM: RG,

when I bought mine there wasn't a "best offer" option. I got mine for $60 and Ebay sent me a coupon for 10% off. So this price is a good deal. The only thing you will have to do is source an AC adapter since the seller told me they are having a hard time getting US AC adapters. I have one so I can give the specs to anyone that would need it.

I imagine a $40 offer would be considered (this is a great deal in my opinion).

-Erik

Quote from: Red Ghost on March 07, 2009, 03:13:24 AM
Duo-R or anyone who has purchased the Atlona / CYM board from "specialty-av" on eBay - Did you make a "best offer" or just "buy it now"?

They have many "best offer" auctions currently listed at $44.95 plus $6.95 shipping cost currently. I'm wondering how much they will actually sell these for.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Platinumfungi on March 08, 2009, 03:48:19 AM: Quote from: Duo_R on March 07, 2009, 07:15:07 AM
RG,

when I bought mine there wasn't a "best offer" option. I got mine for $60 and Ebay sent me a coupon for 10% off. So this price is a good deal. The only thing you will have to do is source an AC adapter since the seller told me they are having a hard time getting US AC adapters. I have one so I can give the specs to anyone that would need it.

I imagine a $40 offer would be considered (this is a great deal in my opinion).

-Erik

Thanks for the info R. I thought in the auction listing they said it included a US adapter, but I guess I'd better ask and make sure. If you have the specs handy that would be great!
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on April 04, 2009, 11:44:52 PM: Mithos - did you ever test the s-video performance on the TG-16?

Quote from: Mithos on December 15, 2008, 08:32:20 AM

We haven't tried out S-Video yet because no one felt like wiring up the jack at that time, but the component output was nice. There was a very slight blur with the picture, but overall the quality was very nice. I'll try to get pics of the quality out later tonight.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Zeon on April 04, 2009, 11:49:25 PM: Quote from: Duo_R on April 04, 2009, 11:44:52 PM
Mithos - did you ever test the s-video performance on the TG-16?

Quote from: Mithos on December 15, 2008, 08:32:20 AM

We haven't tried out S-Video yet because no one felt like wiring up the jack at that time, but the component output was nice. There was a very slight blur with the picture, but overall the quality was very nice. I'll try to get pics of the quality out later tonight.

Nope, I can attest that he hasn't
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on April 05, 2009, 09:59:50 AM: has it been documented to work on a Duo? What other systems does it work on besides the Neo?
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: pcenginesales on April 05, 2009, 01:35:53 PM: Quote from: Duo_R on April 05, 2009, 09:59:50 AM
has it been documented to work on a Duo? What other systems does it work on besides the Neo?

Are you talking about an AD724 circuit?

I bought the chip and am planning on converting a white engine when I get around to it.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on April 06, 2009, 07:27:25 AM: That would be the one. Anyone tried S-video output from this? I think I saw a thread where D-lite said it worked good on Neo-Geo.com. And then I found one on here where someone said they thought it was old junk.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: pcenginesales on April 06, 2009, 08:45:47 PM: There are two variants on this circuit I found (though the circuit build is self explanatory, given how the IC does everything for you.)

There's an AD725 chip (this one off a Neo Geo RGB mod page):

http://web.njit.edu/~jal0737/GFX/Neo-Geo/RGB_schematic.jpg (http://web.njit.edu/_jal0737/GFX/Neo-Geo/RGB_schematic.html)

And an AD724 (this is off a SCART>svideo mod page):

http://www.tvterminal.de/TVT_composite_AD724.gif

Now it looks like these are basiclly the same chip, I bought a 725. They are not cheap sadly (£11) but they go down to £6 if you buy 100, I don't have £600 to throw away on a chance though.

I need to buy more caps but I have the IC and the NTSC crystal which form the core of the mod, and I guess you integrate said mod with a PCE amp.

I will review the circuit when I can put it together. Has to be better than native composite. I have a TV which takes raw NTSC through composite so I'm sure it'll accept s-video too, the IC does do PAL but PAL users have SCART so I'll review how to perforns through NTSC.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on April 06, 2009, 09:20:18 PM: Does that take the same crystal as the CXA1645 circuit for NTSC?
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: pcenginesales on April 06, 2009, 09:42:41 PM: Quote from: Duo_R on April 06, 2009, 09:20:18 PM
Does that take the same crystal as the CXA1645 circuit for NTSC?

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/83875.pdf

"4FSC Clock Input. Circuit A
For NTSC: 14.318 180 MHz.
For PAL: 17.734 475 MHz."
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: Duo_R on April 07, 2009, 03:35:04 PM: According to Grahf this isn't as good as the CXA.

Quote from: grahf on May 26, 2007, 06:58:20 AM
The AD724/AD725s do not work with the PCE for some reason. They also dont produce quite as good of a picture. The CXAs really are the best choice for this system.
Title: Re: RGB to Component (YUV) converter options for TurboDuo / PC Engine
Post by: albinoMithos on April 08, 2009, 06:57:38 AM: Quote from: Duo_R on April 04, 2009, 11:44:52 PM
Mithos - did you ever test the s-video performance on the TG-16?

Quote from: Mithos on December 15, 2008, 08:32:20 AM

We haven't tried out S-Video yet because no one felt like wiring up the jack at that time, but the component output was nice. There was a very slight blur with the picture, but overall the quality was very nice. I'll try to get pics of the quality out later tonight.

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm never doing the S-Video thing. It's more work than it's worth for me.