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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Ninja Spirit on January 22, 2009, 06:31:41 AM
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After how impressed I became with PCE Art of Fighting, I started wondering how things would've turned out if Hudson ported SS to the PC Engine.
Depending on the RAM compared to the Neo Geo, how many sacrifices would have to be made, (especially in the case of Earthquake)? I do know some of the stage backgrounds are pretty rich, like Hudson would prolly have to kick out a few spectators in Galford's stage, or cut back on the lighting in Amakusa stage second round.
I'll stop here since I'm not too savvy enough to talk extensively on the technical realm of the NEC systems
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I'd imagine it'd look similar to how Art of Fighting came out. As far as detail in the backgrounds, that would depend on whether the developer had enough room for all the tiles. In Art of Fighting (IIRC), they had enough room for more tiles so I can't say why some of the BG's were changed in parts.
If want the scaling BG's, then I highly doubt you'd get the 'scaling' effect as well. Not that you couldn't do some sort of multilayer BG, but I doubt any PCE developer is going to take time (which is money) just to net a 'small' increase in quality.
I should say that, AoF began development in early-mid 92 for the PCE (using the prototype card). Just something of interest.
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It seems just as doable or more then AoF. Anyone play the Sega CD version, was it any good?
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I still would like to see a Garou Densetsu MotW on PCE AC :D
mal, when do you start with it?
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I still would like to see a Garou Densetsu MotW on PCE AC :D
mal, when do you start with it?
Actually if you look at this post I made years ago (http://forum.frozenutopia.com/index.php?topic=176.msg2309#msg2309), it already started :mrgreen: .
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oh great. and of course i remember those pics. so, i like to see it in action. time enough you guys had now :mrgreen:
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It seems just as doable or more then AoF. Anyone play the Sega CD version, was it any good?
Just like the Genesis version. No Earthquake and no zooming. But in the sound department, the music itself came right off the Neo Geo.
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Given how the PCE handled the other Neo Geo ports, I don't see why it wouldn't be a fine game. It would probably be done without the zooming, have a CD soundtrack, and it would have weak sound effects. But the gameplay would likely be spot on and the animation frames would probably be pretty up-to-par as well.
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I would expect it to be on par with Sega CD version
It seems just as doable or more then AoF. Anyone play the Sega CD version, was it any good?
Just like the Genesis version. No Earthquake and no zooming. But in the sound department, the music itself came right off the Neo Geo.
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Its safe to say that it would have been better than the 16 bit ports, the exact quality would in part depend on how much loading time the developers thought was acceptable, take Fatal Fury Special for example, the load times were kept to a minimum, but some of the newer stages like duck king took a hit.
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It just depends on anyone's personal standards/tastes. I'm not a fan of scaling in 2D fighters. It's cool in Space Harrier, but I think that 2D street fighting games are better in 2D. Other than gimmicky scaling, I can't think of any 2D fighter from the time that the PCE couldn't do a good job off. A street fighting game should be easier to port than many other types, especially horizontal shooters and we know how well the PCE does them.
The HP bar/timer-stuff could all be made part of the background which leaves all the PCE's sprite resources to render a couple characters and the odd flickering projectile. The PCE's color/detail capabilities combined with the memory freedom of the ACD means that the actual graphic-art itself would look 'perfect' to the average eye. Sampled sfx can just run through adpcm and the music can run off the CD.
It's a shame that more street fighting games weren't ported to PCE since it's the best format for them of the big three consoles of the time.
Everyone seems to be happy with the ACD Neo Geo ports, so a Samurai Showdown port at 256 x 224 should also be acceptable. Here's the widest animation of Earthquake's sprite I could find-
(http://superpcenginegrafx.com/img/samshopce1.png)
It's about 127 pixels wide at its proportionate size in 256 pixel wide resolution. Even if he was made up of four 32 x 64 pixel sprites, then a full-sized Earthquake versus Earthquake battle wouldn't cause any flicker. The only possible problem I can see would be the shadows. But if there can be any kind of prioritizing of sprites (I'm no programmer :P), then the odd flicker, only found in this particular match-up, shouldn't be a big deal if restricted to the flickering shadows. And even if shadows were the main sacrifice for what people would've otherwise called "arcade perfect" back then, I don't think it would be a big deal.
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I'm not a fan of scaling in 2D fighters. It's cool in Space Harrier, but I think that 2D street fighting games are better in 2D.
Quoted for TRUTH! I agree with this sooo much.
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that scaling shizzle was much fun back then, when grafix and effex were over gameplay. but still, SNK made some very good playable games, even with the scaling -> gekka no kenshi 1&2 , shin samurai spirits...
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Earthquake has some long-range attacks when he sends out his sickle. That might cause problems... Maybe.
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The SNES version had Earthquake in it. If the SNES can handle it with its inferior sprite handling abilities, the PCE could handle it with ease. No scaling? Big deal. That scaling looked like ass. Though it would be much, much easier on the Supergrafx, the ACD has more than enough fetch RAM to handle the game.
Earthquake's hardest attack sends his sickle-chain out pretty far, but his own sprite for that doesn't take up too many pixels. It might cause a little temporary flicker if, for example, he was fighting Haomaru who had just summoned a hurricane, but other than that, it shouldn't cause any problems.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Amakusa's teleporting based on the Neo Geo's special effects which the PCE can't handle?
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I thought the SNES wasn't too bad about sprites, at least in terms of how many can be put on a line. Perhaps you could clarify for me, though.
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I thought the SNES wasn't too bad about sprites, at least in terms of how many can be put on a line. Perhaps you could clarify for me, though.
Technically, it's the best between the three systems - up to 34 sprites (according to Anomie's newest doc) per scanline. But just like the other three systems, there's still a total number of sprite pixels on a scanline, regardless of the size. For a shooter the SNES could really shine for sprites, but for this situation it would be pretty much the same situation as the PCE - you'd hit sprite pixel limit. Snes has a a little higher sprite pixel limit per scanline at 272 VS PCE's 256. If the SNES used a BG layer for one of the characters, then you have no problem. And then of course, you loose a layer for the background. The SNES also has a convoluted sprite memory layout. It can't show as much unique sprite tiles as the PCE can per screen (without a limiting trick). Heh - everything about the SNES's graphic processors is convoluted.
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For me, the real roadblock for the SNES re: shooters is the speed. The f*ckin' thing slows down at the drop of a hat. Probably the main reason Space Megaforce plods along at a snail's pace.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Amakusa's teleporting based on the Neo Geo's special effects which the PCE can't handle?
I don't recall the Neo Geo even having any real special effects aside from scaling down. Amakusa's teleport is easily achieved through proper use of sprites.
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I thought even the Neo Geo's scaling was all software and no hardware.
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Scaling is indeed done in hardware on the Neo-Geo. Sprites can be scaled (shrunken) vertically and horizontally (but almost the entire display on Neo-Geo is a crapload of large, linked sprites, so it's not much of a limitation that the BG can't be scaled). The only limitation is that while sprites can be scaled vertically in 256 steps, they can be scaled horizontally in only 16 steps.
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How does that compare to, say, the scaling function on a regular System-16 board?
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The only limitation is that while sprites can be scaled vertically in 256 steps, they can be scaled horizontally in only 16 steps.
That's a really odd limitation. I wonder what the origins of that limitation are.
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Game consoles of that era were always quite weird when it came to horizontal space. For example, it is easy as pie to line scroll every line left and right, but try to do it vertically and you are restricted to huge, giant 8 block wide chunks. I blame Japan. Maybe we nuked them a bit too hard.