PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Zeon on May 29, 2009, 04:30:17 PM
-
So this has been boggling my mind for some time. Whenever Lunar: The Silver Star Story is brought up, almost always everyone is quick the bash the psx version, and they go on and on about how much better the Sega CD original was. The most common point is that they "screwed up the story", but I fail to see how. Sure they changed the story a bit, but honestly it's no better or worse than the original. It's kinda hard to screw up a typical cliched jrpg story line. The original Lunar was rushed out of the doors in an attempt to save the Sega CD from certain doom, and it was left largely unfinished (evidenced by 2 "important" characters that are only given an introduction and seen in a single battle near the very end of the game and never again, the fact that there was no "greater" evil, a formula that most jrpgs even at that time stuck to, the extremely short length of the game, and the general lack of polish in much of the game) I think the psx version, while probably not what the original would have represented had it been given more time to finish, is a much more finished product. It's much longer, has quite a bit more attention to detail, and generally more polished.
The battle system had a little more to it and and bosses required a lot more attention and wise use of resources than the original. They gave Alex a voice when they shouldn't have, but in both games the VA is about equally as bad(with Nall being the only truly ear grating voice), just the psx version has more of it. I like the fact that Alex had sword skills instead of learning magic like the original, as it made a lot more sense for his character. The psx version added a fair amount of new sidequests and secrets, which the original, sadly, lacked severely. Overall though most of the changes were just different, and not in a good or bad way.
I prefer the music of the original a little more, but honestly neither game has a truly outstanding soundtrack. It gets the job done though which is fine by me.
I loved the original when I got it, but was sorely disappointed when I beat it in a day. I felt a little gypped, like there should have been more (and there really should have, I really think we only got half of what the game would have been). I don't care what runin says, it's even shorter than most 16 bit rpgs, barring falcom rpgs which are almost always short.
Of the 3 main 16 bit era consoles, snes and pcengine are the only ones that got more than just a handful of rpgs. So it's only fair to compare snes/sfc and pce for rpg length. By far, snes rpgs were a lot longer. This may be due to the fact that quite of few of the highly acclaimed pce rpgs were made by falcom. Whatever the case is games like Final Fantasy 2 and 3, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest 3, 5 and 6, Lufia 1 and 2, the Romancing Sagas (heck most of square's rpgs), Earthbound, Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean, and many others were roughly 2x+ the length of Lunar with 2x+ more content. Granted some of these game I mentioned were late releases in the 16-bit era, however there are many more that are within the time frame of the lunars. There certainly are short snes/sfc and pce rpgs and pce certainly has some fairly long ones. The main point of said comparison was to give my argument that Lunar was too short some weight. Lunar 2 for Sega cd was a good bit longer, and probably about the length the first Lunar should have been.
I can only imagine 3 main reasons why people prefer the original more:
1. They changed it up quite a bit. Human beings are stubborn, we like the status quo and tend to resist or are reluctant to accept change. It's understandable if the change is not in a good direction, but in the case of Lunar SSS it wasn't really in any direction, good or bad. People might resent the fact that many of the changes seemed unnecessary (and in fact many were).
2. Nostalgia. Most of the people who played both versions of Lunar SSS have probably played the sega cd version first, and probably closer to when it first came out (i am one such person). Typically we like or value the original more for nostalgic feelings.
3. The sega cd is an underdog. Psx had many rpgs, and many good ones. Lunar certainly doesn't stand out much above many of the excellent psx rpgs, and might get quickly written off. Sega cd on the other hand had a small handful of AAA titles, and even fewer rpgs altogether. Lunar for the Sega CD was a platform defining game. If you get a sega cd or when you first get one, Lunar SSS is one of the titles that is always highly recommended and usually on most peoples to buy list. Had lunar never existed for psx it probably wouldn't have had much impact. Had it never had a sega cd release, it would have been a major blow to the system. Also, many people might be biased altogether against sony and the psx.
So what do you guys think? Also, if anyone can provide any insight to the Japan only Saturn release for comparison I am all ears. Also contrary to popular belief the gba port never existed. [-(
-
Dragon Quest 3=NES not SNES :P
As for "short" Falcom rpg's...Try the first Legend of Xanadu PCE..hardly a short game.
-
It's true, the PSX version does suck, the Saturns versions are much better. :wink: I like the Sega-CD Silver Star (there's no Story) for what it is, but it's not so great as a 16-bit RPG and it is definitely unfinished. Mega Fan magazine coverage shows many last minute changes and it looked like they had planned something much more epic. I don't think that even the Saturn versions lived up to what the developer had originally aspired for.
Zeon: How many PCE RPGs have you played? Why do you think that SNES RPG's are longer? It makes sense that since they recycle assets throughout the entire game that it takes less work to pad a cart than it does to maintain CD quality content. Comparing game length between SNES RPGs and CD RPGs is one thing, but I don't know what you consider "content", since you're favoring SNES. Super Mario Bros has lots of levels but very little content. Almost all SNES RPGs are number-crunching recycle-fests that give you more and more text as you progress, instead of more and more original art, music, voice, cinemas, etc. It's kinda like playing with a calculator versus playing with real toys.
Still, at least FFIII/VI, Crono Trigger and Earthbound are super short and I used to do laps in a day to a day and a half. Try to clear Tengai Makyou II, Kabuki Den, Neo Metal Fantasy or Cosmic Fantasy 3 in a day or so.
Lunar EB isn't just "a good bit longer", it's ridiculously long. Some people think it's too long for it's own good, yet it still maintains such a high level of real-actual content right through to the end and beyond.
Also, if anyone can provide any insight to the Japan only Saturn release for comparison I am all ears.
There are two Saturn Lunar SSS's. The regular version has much better looking, more vibrant battle bgs, shorter loads, better/more special effects, instant saving, a single disc and other things I can't think of over the downgraded PSX port. Pretty much the same deal with Grandia, except the 3D bgs also took a major hit in quality. Lunar SSS Complete is the second Saturn version which added some extra items, bromides, possibly small areas and mpeg support for the cinemas which became more or less full screen. The PSX version is a port of Lunar SSSC.
-
First of all, the Sega CD version was not called "The Silver Star Story", it was called "The Silver Star". The PSX version is lacking in many ways in the gameplay department...almost all of the magic spells were removed, the gameplay was horribly unbalanced (having to heal after every battle gets old very quickly), and the repeated samples were f*ckING ANNOYING! Nash saying "Check this out!" for every spell (except one where he goes "Special delivery!") was irritating! Also, the game used boss level scaling which is ALWAYS a bad game design decision. The SSS story was a little more interesting in places but it was hard to get into the characters after knowing them so well in the original. Plus, where was super-demon-Ghaleon at the end of SSS? How dull that he's dead for good once you finish him off. When Alex gets his weapon to become a Dragonmaster, the voice sequence in that part is just totally out-of-place...it completely ruined the event. Also, Alex is SUPPOSED to learn powerful magics...a Dragonmaster is supposed to be not only a great warrior but also a great spellcaster...both are required to protect the goddess. The fact that they made him little more than a stupid barbarian was ultimately what I could never overlook. Turning Kyle into a crossdresser was also a slap in the face...he's supposed to be portrayed as a true man among men, not a wuss who dresses in drag and sleeps off his hangovers in a jail cell.
I loved the soundtrack in the original...in particular, the thundering toms of the boss tracks are so memorable. The soundtrack in SSS was totally lame, especially the hideous crap in the town where everyone speaks in song (Lyton, was it?). And WHY DID THEY TAKE AWAY ALEX'S HARP?! What the f*ck?? Yeah I know it wasn't really a harp, it was a lyre, but still...stupid move.
All in all, SSS falls very, very short of the original.
-
Wow, sounds like Working Designs is responsible for some of the U.S. PSX version's shortcomings. :-k
-
You guys bring up some very interesting points. Indeed the Sega Cd version was simply Silver Star, In my fervor of making this post I didn't take the time to make sure of it's title, and it's been years since I have played it. Also to get technical the psx version was (which you noted was the port of the Saturn version of the same name) Silver Star Complete, something that always irked me a bit. I will also say I didn't beat the Psx version completely, but I was damn close. I never got to play either Saturn port, but as you said, my impressions were that is was the better out of the two remakes. Yeah the battle voices got old, but I tune va out in general, so it didn't bother me too much. As far as balance I felt the psx version was a lot better, every boss battle kept me on my toes, and I was only barely able to win when I did. In the sega cd version I breezed through all the bosses like nothing. without any grinding whatsoever except possibly near the beginning. I couldn't remember about the magic thing. I just found it odd how Alex "learned" his magic in the original, which may have been partly to blame on WDs localization. Alex instrument change was something that I too found odd, but quickly overlooked it. At first I did type that lunar 2 was a lot longer, but seeing as I didn't beat it completely, I didn't want to make such a claim without myself knowing for sure.
As far as cart vs cd, it was the only comparison you could make was snes and pce-cd. Genesis with sega cd didn't have near as many rpgs as the other 2 and pce hucard rpgs were few and far between. It makes sense that tiles and a lot of stuff is recycled in cart games due to memory limitations, and I don't like making this comparison, but there really isn't a more viable comparison to be made. When I speak of content I generally mean things relating to gameplay, not art, music, etc.
Yes many snes rpgs could have been beaten quickly but there was so much side content (quests, secrets, hidden stuff) that you could skip. Chrono Trigger was a game were you could literally skip half of it and beat it. Super Mario RPG was another that changed things up quite a bit throughout the game. 100%ing a snes rpg takes a lot longer than 100%ing a lot of pce games. This may be due to grinding or whatever, all I know is there seems like there is more to do than pce rpgs. Admittedly I have played more snes rpgs than pce simply due to the language barrier. From what I have played they are very enjoyable but in general seem shorter. Also, out of curiosity, how many of you can read Japanese in a fluent manner? I don't care what anyone says, if you don't have a fair understanding of the language, the game is going to seem longer and take longer to beat. Besides, when you only half understand what is being said, you are missing a lot of the content.
-
The PSX versions of Lunar 1 & 2, are what made the Lunar series 1 of the 3 top RPG series of all time for me, with Ys, & Suikoden. Lunar's 1 & 2, to me, stand out with Suikoden 1 & 2 on the PSX as the best RPG's of the system. I do have the Sega CD version of Lunar 1, but I haven't played thru it, I didn't even have a Sega CD until years after getting a PSX, so, maybe I'm biased towards the PSX/Saturn versions. All I can say is, I love it, & I'm thrilled that Xseed has picked up the rights to the new version of Lunar 1 in the US, hopefully that will lead to Lunar 2, & FINALLY Lunar 3! Now, if someone would just bring over Ys 1 & 2 Chronicles & Ys 7 over to the US, I'd be a happy camper. Come to think of it, we need a really good Lufia game. I loved the 1st 2, the 3rd one I have yet to beat, & the 4th one I haven't played much at all, those 2 just didn't strike me for whatever reason :-k
-
The SCD versions have original enemy sprites for every different area. :clap: The remakes pallete swap them. ](*,)
-
How about companies stop making stupid sequels and start doing things original again?
-
As far as cart vs cd, it was the only comparison you could make was snes and pce-cd. Genesis with sega cd didn't have near as many rpgs as the other 2 and pce hucard rpgs were few and far between. It makes sense that tiles and a lot of stuff is recycled in cart games due to memory limitations, and I don't like making this comparison, but there really isn't a more viable comparison to be made. When I speak of content I generally mean things relating to gameplay, not art, music, etc.
Gameplay-wise, PCE RPGs are on average from what I've played, at least as long. Cart games artificially lengthen play-through times with dragged out, usually unskippable "cinematics", which consist of pages and pages of speech text and/or watching an in-game background move for a while. Square SNES RPGs are pretty bad offenders.
Yes many snes rpgs could have been beaten quickly but there was so much side content (quests, secrets, hidden stuff) that you could skip. Chrono Trigger was a game were you could literally skip half of it and beat it. Super Mario RPG was another that changed things up quite a bit throughout the game.
Again, being able to walk to the side of a path and enter an extra cave that looks like the rest in the game and fight the same enemies possibly recolored, often without any text speech often just to find an extra item to equip isn't a breakthrough in gameplay, but it isn't unique to SNES RPGs either. Stuff like FFIII/VI's collecting Lores, Rages, etc isn't real meaningful content, it's more of a waste of time. Even fully clearing Chrono Trigger, while maximizing the time loot, it is an extremely short RPG and I got bored with it very fast. I really liked it, but its retard "difficulty" and non-length are what led me to go back to lapping other RPGs again sooner than usual. I'm curious what you mean by SMRPG "changing things up". It's one of the worst SNES RPGs as far as content and I felt ripped off after a few days of playing it.
100%ing a snes rpg takes a lot longer than 100%ing a lot of pce games. This may be due to grinding or whatever, all I know is there seems like there is more to do than pce rpgs. Admittedly I have played more snes rpgs than pce simply due to the language barrier. From what I have played they are very enjoyable but in general seem shorter. Also, out of curiosity, how many of you can read Japanese in a fluent manner? I don't care what anyone says, if you don't have a fair understanding of the language, the game is going to seem longer and take longer to beat. Besides, when you only half understand what is being said, you are missing a lot of the content.
When you say "100%ing" while comparing SNES RPGs to PCE games, do you mean non-RPG PCE games? Which PCE RPGs have you played through? Which did you find short? You mentioned grinding as well, do you think that Double Dungeons is a long, content packed RPG?
Cart RPGs are limited story-wise. Reading speech text with a bunch of static player sprites standing around or sometimes walking isn't like reading a novel where you are immersed in an all descriptive world. What made cart RPGs more interesting and memorable was the lack of detail of people and places and what was really happening (two in-game sprites bump each other = a complex duel to the death). It leaves so much to the imagination that you fill in the gaps literally with your imagination. Cinematic Japanese CD RPGs are so packed with aesthetic content, that you often get a much clearer idea of what is happening than english cart RPGs. However much you don't understand exactly as it was meant to be interpreted, is still filled in by your imagination like playing cart RPGs.
I loved FFII/IV in english. I liked how the sprites acted out everything while the text boxed flipped by. But I was blown away the first time I played Kabukiden. It had the same style sprites, but they did a better job acting everything out while the text flips by. Except the text is perfectly synced to actual voice acting, which is synced to animated mouths of large character portraits and there are often extra little animations thrown in. The battle cinematics are also done like SNES FF's, except that there are extra animations, the characters are more detailed and there's voice acting. This is all independant of the real cinemas of the game (Which are unbelievable). And if you like an RPGs "changing things up", you won't believe the things that happen and everything you get to do.
I love the actual gameplay of RPGs. The benefits of CD make RPGs more enjoyable, but even english cart games aren't deep stories with the formality of gameplay. So it's no loss playing imports, carts or CDs. But the difference between the two is kinda like the difference between 8-bit and 16-bit games.
-
Black Tiger, I guess as far as length goes, it all boils down to how you measure the content and length of a game. Though not groundbreaking, going though dungeons, battles, finding items, characters, places, required or otherwise, is the very bread and butter of the gameplay of an rpg.
Besides, not all of such extra content is cut and dry, go from a to b and get the hidden thing. Many times it is broken up with clever dialog, riddles, puzzles, and/or events. You oversimplify it far to much. Besides I don't care for breakthroughs necessarily, just content that is fun.
Super Mario Rpg broke up the gameplay at several points in various subtle ways. The dialog for one was often simple but humorous. Seeing Mario reenact events was priceless. The things such as the the extra timed button presses in battles for more/less damage, the Yoshi racing, mode 7 mine cart ride, and that race up hill, amongst many other things, while very simple, provided a nice change of pace than the more serious rpgs. The great thing about Mario Rpg is it is just as much for rpg lovers as it is for everyone. Anyone can pick it up and play. Even though like most cart rpgs where a lot of graphics are reused, Mario rpg is one of the ones where you can barely tell as you play it is so well done.
Every dungeon and place, even those that use the same set of graphics, are done in such a way that you can't really tell much was reused as far as dungeon layout goes while you are playing. I can remember quite a few places in even Lunar SS where the room layouts were reused and stood out.(though by far it isn't as much as most cart rpgs). The people that don't enjoy Mario Rpg are usually the ones that expect too much from it, or something different than what it is. Maybe if it didn't have "RPG" in the title :P.
Your definition of "meaningful content" to me seems like meaningless extras like fmv and more sprite art, backgrounds, etc. Yes they are nice, and they can help make a mediocre rpg into an excellent one (and they can make an otherwise excellent rpg into a really crappy experience); however they are far from needed to make good content.
Admittedly I have played a small handful of pce rpgs, namely the us released ones. Though there are many more than just the falcom rpgs, for some reason I always associate pce rpgs with falcom, of which I have played some of there rpgs on other consoles/computers. Falcom rpgs are almost always very short. I disagree with being able to get anything about what's going on with the language barrier. Maybe if you partly understand what is being said, but for me I have always been highly annoyed when I don't know what the hell is happening...at all. No the fmvs don't help, in fact they only serve to confuse, and annoy me more. Having to refer to guides to get through a game is no way to play, it ruins the experience for me completely. Especially when hours are wasted trying to find that one last damn townsperson/place/thing you are supposed to talk to/examine to initiate an event, that is COMPLETELY unobvious when you can't understand Japanese. I spent 3+ hours slowly figuring out what to do in the first town in Magicoal (a game I thought would be obvious and easy enough to figure out). I finally hit a road block, and no matter who I talked to, what I examined, what I did, I could not figure it out. I turned it off highly frustrated, and have not played it since. Though stories of jrpgs are far from novel quality, when crap like that arises from the language barrier (and it happens A LOT) I don't see how anyone can find the game enjoyable, especially when they are turned based battle fest. Besides it's the characters that often make a jrpg, not the story.
I don't really count fmv as something that lengthens the game or gives much more meaningful content, in fact most of the time, I just skip fmvs if possible, especially in Jrpgs that are not translated. (I actually kinda hated fmv heavy rpgs and still do, well the copious use of fmv that is). Honestly when looking at the length of a game I personally don't count fmvs, unless they have vital info, which many times they don't (though admittedly, many times they do.) Honestly I'd rather it happen as it does in most cart rpgs than watch a short fmv clip. It leaves far more to interpretation. I like using my imagination thank you very much, especially when it comes to characters voices. Cd rpgs with their fancy cinematics and whatnot destroy almost any possible use of imagination when they use such things in events.
I think the problem here is you tend to value the more artsy part of games ie the aesthetics, and presentation, while i value more the characters, gameplay and clever dialog/events. I love what they do with limited resources (carts). Early cd rpgs, are often just cart games with lots of fmv and redbook audio. In fact if you took out the redbook audio (and replaced it with chip audio) and fmv and left everything else intact, many 16-bit era cd rpgs could have easily fit on some of the bigger sized carts of the time. Considering that at the time, when cds allowed for "virtually unlimited space to make a game" what we often got really wasn't that impressive. You say text heaviness artificially increased the length of cart games, I say fmvs artificially increased the length of cd games (though perhaps, not as much), and the redbook audio artificially increased the content. (Chip music > redbook audio any day of the week). I speak for 16-bit rpg games in general not just snes vs pce.
On a side note, pce is an excellent system and my all time favorite, however as far as rpgs go I can only really speak for the tg16, as I cannot play pce rpgs. Perhaps I should not have made my snes vs pce comparison, however the fact still stands lunar is far shorter than most rpgs of the time, which was really the only reason I even brought up the whole comparison.
-
The best way to lengthen an RPG is to make the characters walk more slowly.
-
Black Tiger, I guess as far as length goes, it all boils down to how you measure the content and length of a game. Though not groundbreaking, going though dungeons, battles, finding items, characters, places, required or otherwise, is the very bread and butter of the gameplay of an rpg.
That's what thought, you'll find just as much in the average PCE RPG.
Besides, not all of such extra content is cut and dry, go from a to b and get the hidden thing. Many times it is broken up with clever dialog, riddles, puzzles, and/or events. You oversimplify it far to much. Besides I don't care for breakthroughs necessarily, just content that is fun.
Again, japanese developers put the same kinda stuff into both carts and CDs. CD RPGs just have extra stuff as well.
Super Mario Rpg broke up the gameplay at several points in various subtle ways. The dialog for one was often simple but humorous. Seeing Mario reenact events was priceless. The things such as the the extra timed button presses in battles for more/less damage, the Yoshi racing, mode 7 mine cart ride, and that race up hill, amongst many other things, while very simple, provided a nice change of pace than the more serious rpgs. The great thing about Mario Rpg is it is just as much for rpg lovers as it is for everyone. Anyone can pick it up and play. Even though like most cart rpgs where a lot of graphics are reused, Mario rpg is one of the ones where you can barely tell as you play it is so well done.
Sounds like you'd love Kabukiden and Gullver Boy (if they were english I guess...).
Every dungeon and place, even those that use the same set of graphics, are done in such a way that you can't really tell much was reused as far as dungeon layout goes while you are playing. I can remember quite a few places in even Lunar SS where the room layouts were reused and stood out.(though by far it isn't as much as most cart rpgs). The people that don't enjoy Mario Rpg are usually the ones that expect too much from it, or something different than what it is. Maybe if it didn't have "RPG" in the title :P.
The same could be said of Lunar SS. :wink:
Your definition of "meaningful content" to me seems like meaningless extras like fmv and more sprite art, backgrounds, etc. Yes they are nice, and they can help make a mediocre rpg into an excellent one (and they can make an otherwise excellent rpg into a really crappy experience); however they are far from needed to make good content.
Are there some RPGs you know of that were worse off from enhanced visuals, music, cinemas, etc?
Admittedly I have played a small handful of pce rpgs, namely the us released ones. Though there are many more than just the falcom rpgs, for some reason I always associate pce rpgs with falcom, of which I have played some of there rpgs on other consoles/computers. Falcom rpgs are almost always very short.
I'm not sure why you've mentioned Falcom RPGs so much. The only ones I can think of are Dragon Slayer/LOH 1 & 2. Otherwise Falcom pretty much only makes questy hybrid adventure games.
I disagree with being able to get anything about what's going on with the language barrier. Maybe if you partly understand what is being said, but for me I have always been highly annoyed when I don't know what the hell is happening...at all. No the fmvs don't help, in fact they only serve to confuse, and annoy me more. Having to refer to guides to get through a game is no way to play, it ruins the experience for me completely. Especially when hours are wasted trying to find that one last damn townsperson/place/thing you are supposed to talk to/examine to initiate an event, that is COMPLETELY unobvious when you can't understand Japanese. I spent 3+ hours slowly figuring out what to do in the first town in Magicoal (a game I thought would be obvious and easy enough to figure out). I finally hit a road block, and no matter who I talked to, what I examined, what I did, I could not figure it out. I turned it off highly frustrated, and have not played it since. Though stories of jrpgs are far from novel quality, when crap like that arises from the language barrier (and it happens A LOT) I don't see how anyone can find the game enjoyable, especially when they are turned based battle fest. Besides it's the characters that often make a jrpg, not the story.
I guess that cinemas and/or voice aren't for you. Most people seem to require guides to play any english questy (or non-questy) game, which is why there are strategy guides for absolutely everything and an online faq/guide for every english cart RPG ever made. I myself have run into the problems you described, only in english cart RPGs.
I don't really count fmv as something that lengthens the game or gives much more meaningful content, in fact most of the time, I just skip fmvs if possible, especially in Jrpgs that are not translated. (I actually kinda hated fmv heavy rpgs and still do, well the copious use of fmv that is). Honestly when looking at the length of a game I personally don't count fmvs, unless they have vital info, which many times they don't (though admittedly, many times they do.) Honestly I'd rather it happen as it does in most cart rpgs than watch a short fmv clip. It leaves far more to interpretation. I like using my imagination thank you very much, especially when it comes to characters voices. Cd rpgs with their fancy cinematics and whatnot destroy almost any possible use of imagination when they use such things in events.
Like I said before, CD JRPGs still gave me plenty to imagine about and you're tastes are in the minority when it comes to RPG fans. But from what you say, you should hate Lunar PSX much more than Lunar Sega-CD.
I think the problem here is you tend to value the more artsy part of games ie the aesthetics, and presentation, while i value more the characters, gameplay and clever dialog/events. I love what they do with limited resources (carts). Early cd rpgs, are often just cart games with lots of fmv and redbook audio. In fact if you took out the redbook audio (and replaced it with chip audio) and fmv and left everything else intact, many 16-bit era cd rpgs could have easily fit on some of the bigger sized carts of the time. Considering that at the time, when cds allowed for "virtually unlimited space to make a game" what we often got really wasn't that impressive. You say text heaviness artificially increased the length of cart games, I say fmvs artificially increased the length of cd games (though perhaps, not as much), and the redbook audio artificially increased the content. (Chip music > redbook audio any day of the week). I speak for 16-bit rpg games in general not just snes vs pce.
As I've been saying, CD RPGs have everything cart games do. Take any cart RPG you love and add to it, that's all that they are. But you still get more character development and clever dialogue/events from CD RPGs. There must be a line though, that RPGs have to balance around for you to enjoy them, since you say that you like having more left to the imagination, but at the same time value characters and clever dialogue/events.
There also has to be a point, where non-gameplay content comes into play as well, otherwise you might as well stick with 8-bit RPGs. What if an RPG was made entirely of green and gray squares like the classic Bomberman Battle map, with all the characters and enemies as just recolored Bombermen? At some point variety must matter, but just the same there shouldnèt be a point that just happens to fall into SNES RPG territory where there is too much of a good thing.
Today people complain more about games being too long. Sure CD RPGs could've been 1000 hours long, but it would be like watching a 12 hour movie and would deter players from buying new games. You said so yourself that CD RPGs could fit on carts without the extras... because they're just like cart RPGs... only packed with enhancements. But you're unique for disliking enhanced games.
I'm not sure how CD audio pads the content, since you said that you don't consider it real content.
On a side note, pce is an excellent system and my all time favorite, however as far as rpgs go I can only really speak for the tg16, as I cannot play pce rpgs. Perhaps I should not have made my snes vs pce comparison, however the fact still stands lunar is far shorter than most rpgs of the time, which was really the only reason I even brought up the whole comparison.
It's true, Lunar can be quickly beaten, but that doesn't mean that it is a bad game.
-
I am by no means an expert on pce rpgs, I only have what I have observed first hand via a small handful of games. As I said I probably should not have made such a comparison, as it was made with my limited experience of pce rpgs. There are probably many long pce rpgs, but from what I have seen and heard I am led to believe this is not the case, whether or not it is true.
I have nothing against cd games at all, there are many that I love the sega cd version of Lunar being no exception. The only trend I never really cared for was fmv. Voice acting can go either way, but if it was taken out I wouldn't be upset or miss it. In fact I read too fast, and am to impatient to wait for the va to catch up, so I end up skipping it anyways, only to hear a jumbled mess of the first syllable of every sentence mashed together. Voices in battle that repeat often get old very fast, so if I can turn them off I do. To clarify I do not prefer the psx or saturn version of Lunar, they both have things that I like and dislike over the other. To me there is no clear cut "winner".
Speaking of people referring to guides for English games, this is mainly due to laziness, and/or the obsession of doing everything and seeing everything that is possible in the game. If you can read and understand the language the game is portrayed in there is never a need for a guide. I cannot think of a single jrpg in english that had me completely stumped for more than 10 minutes at a time if even that, unless I take a month+ break during the course of playing the game, or the game glitched and prevented me from actually moving forward (yes this has actually happened to me). I don't care how well the VA or FMVs are portrayed you're not going to pick up on 90% of what is going on other than the main gist of things. Besides there has never been a rpg in english that I wasted 3+ hours on and had me turn the game off in frustration over something that would have been blindingly simple to figure out could I read the language.
Are there some RPGs you know of that were worse off from enhanced visuals, music, cinemas, etc?
Hell yes, any game with atrocious VA (though some games have perfectly good VA) that cannot be turned off or in some cases even skipped. This has almost killed my will to go on in many cd rpgs many times. Also unskippable fmvs are highly annoying especially if you have seen them before (ie playing the game or that part again). This was a gripe of many that is only in very recent times dieing out, not everyone cares to be forced to sit through fmvs, tutorials, etc. People want fmvs and voices, fine, but for the sake of many's ears and patience put in an option to skip/turn it off. Besides IMO chip music in many cases sounds better, though not always.
I agree that there needs to be a balance between gameplay elements and non gameplay elements. I just don't agree with you what this balance is. Again, I never said sega cd lunar was a bad game by any means, I just think it could have been so much more. At the same time, I think a lot of the hate towards the psx version is unwarranted.
-
Wait... people actually like Super Mario RPG? My bro bought that game BITD and I had a chance to beat it. Overall, it's kinda boring. That's one RPG that I would *not* play over again.
-
Wait... people actually like Super Mario RPG? My bro bought that game BITD and I had a chance to beat it. Overall, it's kinda boring. That's one RPG that I would *not* play over again.
It's certainly far from my favorite rpg, but it is beloved by many, and has quite a large fan following. I enjoy it, but even I don't understand to the extent it is loved. No joke, my friends bro mauled/attacked our other friend after the other friend discovered Super Mario Rpg in a game store and was going to buy it. He let go after our crazed friend started to bite his hand. I only wish I was joking... [-(
-
Wait... people actually like Super Mario RPG? My bro bought that game BITD and I had a chance to beat it. Overall, it's kinda boring. That's one RPG that I would *not* play over again.
*raises hand* I did! What? I never knew other people DIDN'T enjoy the game, it's great wacky fun!
-
Wait... people actually like Super Mario RPG? My bro bought that game BITD and I had a chance to beat it. Overall, it's kinda boring. That's one RPG that I would *not* play over again.
*raises hand* I did! What? I never knew other people DIDN'T enjoy the game, it's great wacky fun!
Agreed, this is the first I have heard of anyone really disliking the game. :-k
-
Wait... people actually like Super Mario RPG? My bro bought that game BITD and I had a chance to beat it. Overall, it's kinda boring. That's one RPG that I would *not* play over again.
*raises hand* I did! What? I never knew other people DIDN'T enjoy the game, it's great wacky fun!
Agreed, this is the first I have heard of anyone really disliking the game. :-k
I didn't say "dislike". It was average at best game IMO. Not really a motivation there to replay/beat it ;)
-
I prefer the music more in the Sega-CD version. I also am not a fan of the voices used in the battle sequences. There were also other reasons I like the Sega CD version more. I love the psx versions as well, but I just like how the Sega CD versions turned out better. What I would really like to see compared is the Sega Saturn version compared to the Japanese PSX version. I might have to track down Lunar SSS for Saturn to find out. Lord knows it goes for not much at all. That's what I'd really like to see compared. From what I hear the Saturn version is better.
-
Are there some RPGs you know of that were worse off from enhanced visuals, music, cinemas, etc?
Hell yes, any game with atrocious VA (though some games have perfectly good VA) that cannot be turned off or in some cases even skipped. This has almost killed my will to go on in many cd rpgs many times. Also unskippable fmvs are highly annoying especially if you have seen them before (ie playing the game or that part again). This was a gripe of many that is only in very recent times dieing out, not everyone cares to be forced to sit through fmvs, tutorials, etc. People want fmvs and voices, fine, but for the sake of many's ears and patience put in an option to skip/turn it off. Besides IMO chip music in many cases sounds better, though not always.
I agree that there needs to be a balance between gameplay elements and non gameplay elements. I just don't agree with you what this balance is. Again, I never said sega cd lunar was a bad game by any means, I just think it could have been so much more. At the same time, I think a lot of the hate towards the psx version is unwarranted.
You're still talking about issues that have nothing to do with CD enhancements. Both cart and CD games randomly have unskippable voice/text and "fmv"/sprite-bumpin'-theatre. The big difference, is that you can usually skip most of it in CD games, but carts normally have longer drawn out "cinematics" which are unskippable. Best case scenario in most cart RPGs is that you can mash or hold down buttons to speed text boxes, while many CD RPGs let you instantly skip entire segments of voice with single button push.
CD "fmv's", voice, etc, aside from less frequently being unskippable than the cart equivalents, often are available to be switched on/off, if not just skipped at the time. What is likely the only one of two real Turbo RPGs that you've played, Dragon Slayer, is the perfect example of this, going so far as to even give you the option of CD or PSG music. How many cart RPG games let you turn off text and cinematic segments?
Tutorials/hand-holding was common in major cart RPGs, but I can't think of many (any?) in CD RPGs of the time. I don't think that we disagree about balancing gameplay and non-gameplay elements, I think that you just only count non-gameplay stuff in CD games. Maybe you just favor cart RPGs because that's mostly what you've played?
I also feel that Lunar SS is overrated but not bad and that Lunar SSS at it's core (the Saturn version) is a fun game, but the PSX specific elements do drag down the game's enjoyment.
-
Zeon?.... For the Sega Genesis:
Phantasy Star 2, 3, 4, Traysia, Sword of Vermillion, Shining Force 1, 2, Shining in the Darkness, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Shadowrun, Shining force 3, Vay, Lunar 1, Lunar 2..........Faery Tale Adventure, Crusader of Centy......D&D.....Ys III.
Thats not a tiny list of RPGs, lol. and Im sure i missed some.
I dont know. I always thought both the original and remake captured the Lunar atmosphere perfect. They both have some shortcomings (Sega CD is kinda unpolished in places, PSX has alot of annoying battle voice overs as was mentioned...).......... but they both kick ass. Even with the short comings, both setup a game play experience that hasn't been matched.. Except by Vay which is basically Lunar 1.5. Both Lunar games on all systems are thumbs up awesome in my book.
The music in the PSX one was pretty inspiring and awesome, and so was the Sega CD music.... The PSX remake just feels like they redelivered the world and put more time into showing you it.
I cant say either really beats out the other.
One thing neither game is guilty of is drawn out dialogue, mindless grinding, or dumb sidequests. Like in Lunar 2, the extra dungeons, they aren't just some pokey quick ass find the loot and get out deals. They are full blown dungeons!
Lunar does an awesome job of character and world development that other games fizzle out in the middle of doing. I actually cared about the characters and what was going on (which is why I did the epilogue part of Lunar 2! Gotta know what happens). Some other games (Final Fantasy VI), I honestly didn't give two shits about half the characters.
What alot of RPGs do is pad the game with level grinding, text that shouldn't even be there, and crap like that. Yea they cant get FMVs and voice overs on a cartridge, but sometimes the text dialog is overkill and they make you do crap that is boring. Final Fantasy has alot of junk like that. They add more and more with every game. Goony "mini games" and crap that is more tedious than fun.
But I guess I like those games too ....I even like the "short" rpgs. I dont really gauge an RPGs fun by its length, since some long ass RPGs are brutal messes and I only finish them to finish them. Short ass games (Like Ys!) are great, even if you can beat it in <10 hours. As long as the story is delivered right, and the characters arent lame/boring.
The only thing that happened with the PSX Lunar that was sort of a let down is that the power of the playstation was kinda underused. I mean, look at that messagebox. Its just a transparent rectangle. What the hell.
-
That's one thing I've always loved about GameArt's RPG's. They always had great character development. I do find a hell of a lot of rpg's where I really could give two shits about most of the characters.
-
That's one thing I've always loved about GameArt's RPG's. They always had great character development. I do find a hell of a lot of rpg's where I really could give two shits about most of the characters.
Final Fantasy IX immediately comes to mind.
Zidane was such a worthless dickhead
and Tidus in FFX
and that whiney clone of him in FFXII. What was his name? uh...
:)
-
I was never big on the final fantasy games. Too drawn out with a boring story. Every FF game seemed that way. I would always find myself losing interest and getting bored before half way through the games. After FF7 I totally stopped playing. Tried FF12, but that's the first one I've touched since FF7. Most overrated rpg's ever! Only Square rpg I ever really liked was Chrono Trigger. Any of GA's rpg's are better. Too bad it's not the other way around and GA owns Square. It could be Game Art's Squared. It should be anyways since I've always liked GA's rpg's more.
-
Final Fantasy went really stupid after the 7th one.
the 4th one was the last one I really got into......
there are so many rpgs that trump all of the FF nonsense. Even other Square stuff like Ctrigger and Secret of Mana...
but, Lufia , ooooo now there is a game. Id love to see a new Lufia
-
Final Fantasy went really stupid after the 7th one.
the 4th one was the last one I really got into......
there are so many rpgs that trump all of the FF nonsense. Even other Square stuff like Ctrigger and Secret of Mana...
but, Lufia , ooooo now there is a game. Id love to see a new Lufia
Chrono Trigger is damn near as overrated as the Final Fantasy series these days.
-
Final Fantasy went really stupid after the 7th one.
the 4th one was the last one I really got into......
there are so many rpgs that trump all of the FF nonsense. Even other Square stuff like Ctrigger and Secret of Mana...
but, Lufia , ooooo now there is a game. Id love to see a new Lufia
Chrono Trigger is damn near as overrated as the Final Fantasy series these days.
It is pretty overrated nowadays because of Nintendopes... but I do remember when It came out (I was 7!) and I watched my uncle play it and I thought it was pretty boss. The Wind Scene music (600 AD) was sweet, and the scenery and radically changing time era stuff was alot more fun than Link to the Past.... :-D
I do notice though that the simpler the RPG game system is, the funner the game turns out to be. Crap like FF12 seems like work, not a game.
Cosmic Fantasy 2, while quirky (what early 90s rpg isnt), is alot more fun to play because it FEELS like a game!
-
Wait... people actually like Super Mario RPG? My bro bought that game BITD and I had a chance to beat it. Overall, it's kinda boring. That's one RPG that I would *not* play over again.
Agreed. :-&
Regarding FF; The only one I didn't "get into" was IX.
8 was dark, and had big shoes to fill. If it would've come out before 7, I think people would've had a different opinion of it. Lets face it 7 was HUGE.
Regarding the ORIGINAL topic, I liked the Sega CD version of Lunar: Silver Star, and the Saturn Remake, in that order. Don't like the PSX version, and hope that a PSP version comes out because every remake the PSP does is gold IMHO.
-
I think if 8 didnt use that retarded Junction system the game would have been sweet.
the story and theme and ALL of it was there, but that junctioning system was just baaaaaaaaaaad.
-
I was never big on the final fantasy games. Too drawn out with a boring story. Every FF game seemed that way. I would always find myself losing interest and getting bored before half way through the games.
Man I couldn't agree with you more, but I would expand that to MOST Square's rpgs. I just can't get into em. FFVII was meh, then I met all the crazed fanboys/girls and was not only perplexed at why they though it was THE end all be all rpg, but quickly became annoyed. Besides, Wild Arms, which released the same year was FAR better in every regard IMO. The characters had personality, and while the main plot wasn't groundbreaking(neither was FFVII, in fact FFVII did more harm than good for being such a big influence on rpgs, unless you love characters that have the personality of a brick and emofests. :P), the characters were well developed, and interesting, especially the villains. The plot was certainly more involved; Wild Arms is one of those games where you can play it over 1000 times and still notice something you didn't before, be it plot related, character interactions, or otherwise provided you care about the game in the first place.
Actually this can be said about much of the Wild Arms series in general. I've noticed that not only do they tend to develop the good characters well, they often do the same for the villains, if not more so. The series is one of the few that I can relate to a lot of the characters because of how they act, the conflicts they are met with, how they solve their dilemmas they are constantly faced with, and how they ultimately develop as a character are very true to life in so many ways and in so many cases. They aren't your typical, non realistic, clear cut, and trivial black and white type situations that so many jrpgs like to split everything into. The characters are often presented with (again often similar to real life) complex situations where the answer is not clear. They struggle greatly with these situations and often they act in the way a person in a similar stage of development in real life would. They consistently change throughout the course of the game by reevaluating their sense of self, their sets of morals and beliefs, and their perspective on various things, and not always in ways that are totally predictable.
While this isn't true of every major character, nor is it true that every game in the series is completely equal in this aspect, overall the Wild Arms series has more complex character development than a lot of jrpgs out there. The games certainly are a lot deeper than they initially seem. By far the first one alone surpasses FFVII in areas of plot progression, character development, (I seriously can't be the only one who didn't give a crap when Aries, a severely underdeveloped and unrelatable character, was killed by Sephiroth in an overly dramatic fmv sequence...) interesting situations and characters, keeping your interest in general, graphics (and I stand by that 100%), and not dragging out crap that doesn't need to be dragged out. By these aspects alone Wild Arms is decidedly more "brilliant" than FFVII.
Hmmm.... Maybe I should change the topic to "General JRPG discussion." :-k
-
Zeon, her name was Aeris, and I know a lot of people who cried at that scene! I even know someone who cried when Pottle is killed in Vay.
-
I think if 8 didnt use that retarded Junction system the game would have been sweet.
the story and theme and ALL of it was there, but that junctioning system was just baaaaaaaaaaad.
Ok, I'll give you that. Agreed.
-
Zeon?.... For the Sega Genesis:
Phantasy Star 2, 3, 4, Traysia, Sword of Vermillion, Shining Force 1, 2, Shining in the Darkness, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Shadowrun, Shining force 3, Vay, Lunar 1, Lunar 2..........Faery Tale Adventure, Crusader of Centy......D&D.....Ys III.
Thats not a tiny list of RPGs, lol. and Im sure i missed some.
Traysia is totally shit (I know, I beat it), but it's an RPG. But the Shining Force series aren't RPGs. They are strategy games. Labeling Landstalker as an RPG (JRPG in context) is a stretch, as is Beyond Oasis and Centy. They're more "adventure" type games ("action-adventure" for the European members ;) ). I.e. Just like Zelda isn't an RPG (well, maybe Zelda 2 NES one is).
-
I liked Traysia lol.
I always referred to SForce as RPGs too since the battles are strategy, but other then that you walk around towns and crap like any other RPG...
:) Theyre all close enough!
Wild Arms? pfsht lol The first 2 were great, and then it was all downhill. You have OK character development, sometimes really good, swimming in a sea of shitty game mechanics and annoying nonsense. I forced myself to play Wild Arms 5 just because the characters were sweet. The game itself is a mess.
and......we dont talk about Pottle. That shits not cool.
-
Although there are many questy Genesis/Sega-CD games, there aren't many traditional RPGs. There are even fewer of both for TG-16/Duo.
-
Call me insane, but one of my all-time favorites was Shadowrun for the Genesis. By no means traditional. 8)
-
shadow run is a really badass game. Its brutal, and designed to induce suicide but damn is it gooooood.
:)
Sword of Vermillion, thats another good genesis one
-
Right On. I love the vigilante aspect; I beat the heck out of Shadowrun. You can turn anyone into a decker!
It does have a high learning curve. Once your past it the game triples in enjoyment.
Vermillion is one I never got a chance to play. I'll check it out.
-
Although Sword of Vermillion can be enjoyed, it is generally considered to be a bad game. But it is also dirt cheap, so you have nothing to lose. :P
-
Sword of Vermilion has
great fantastic music and was programmed by Yu Suzuki's AM2. Sure, they regret the piss out of making that game, but still.
-
shit, I like the game alot. rofl.
i must be into really shitty games by everyones standards
-
Other people's opinions shouldn't affect your own. Like whatever you want to, it's your opinion that matters at the end of the day.
-
Holy hell I love Sword of Vermillion. I always thought the music was amazing, the fighting, fun, plus I'm a sucker for dungeon crawlers. I also like the few boss battles. Those looked killer back in the day. To me it was a great game with a fairly nice story for it's time. Also it was the first 6 meg genesis/MD cart! :shock: Haha.
-
Hey, I like Sword of Vermillion too. I thought it did a good job in putting you in that moody atmosphere, and I definitely recall those boss battles.
Holy hell I love Sword of Vermillion. I always thought the music was amazing, the fighting, fun, plus I'm a sucker for dungeon crawlers. I also like the few boss battles. Those looked killer back in the day. To me it was a great game with a fairly nice story for it's time. Also it was the first 6 meg genesis/MD cart! :shock: Haha.
It's one of those stupid things I remember, but it was a 5 "MEGA" game. Looking at the box, I recall thinking, hmm... not quite as big as Phantasy Star II (6 meg game that was released a tad before SoV), and for whatever reason, that thought stuck in my mind.
-
I always though it was funny that SoV had a town called Parma.
Thats the town I live in, lol
-
You live in Parma Ohio? I lived near there. Well Medina. Anyways getting back on topic I finally started playing the Sega CD version of Lunar SSS again. I like it a bit better when it comes to the battles. They seem faster. In the PSX version I do like how you can see the monsters and try to run away from them to avoid a battle. That was kind of nice. I did also pick up the Sega Saturn Lunar Silver Star Complete. I haven't played it yet though because I need a saturn video card to play the upgraded MPEG's of that game.
-
You live in Parma Ohio? I lived near there. Well Medina. Anyways getting back on topic I finally started playing the Sega CD version of Lunar SSS again. I like it a bit better when it comes to the battles. They seem faster. In the PSX version I do like how you can see the monsters and try to run away from them to avoid a battle. That was kind of nice. I did also pick up the Sega Saturn Lunar Silver Star Complete. I haven't played it yet though because I need a saturn video card to play the upgraded MPEG's of that game.
wtfs everyone lives in or used to live in Medina.
lol
-
wtfs everyone lives in or used to live in Medina.
lol
Really? Haha that's kinda funny. It's been years though. Was there for 11 years then moved to good ol Columbia, South Kakalaky in 92' Most of my family is still up there though. Anyways...I just bought a Video card so I can play my Saturn Lunar with the upgraded video quality. So that will be nice. I've never played the Saturn version. I also want to get the PC version. Is there supposed to be any differences between the Saturn and PSX versions?
-
yeah a ton of people i meet on the interwebs tell me DUED I WAS FROM MEDINA AND STUFF
personally, i cant stand medina, but its because I dont like rural-farm-town things....
maybe there is a suburblike area there. Dunno, but it must have something im missing since tons of people are from there!
-
All Medina is is suburbs. It's grown like crazy since I've been there. Anyways on the Lunar topic I just got Lunar SSS for PC. Gonna try it out this week and see how it is. I'll be playing Lunar SSSC for Saturn when I get my Saturn video card in the mail. I'm just about to finish the Sega CD version so I'd be nice to compare with the others. I've heard the Saturn SSSC with the better quality MPEG's is the best version. I just want to see what WD left out, besides the script. :)
-
All Medina is is suburbs. It's grown like crazy since I've been there. Anyways on the Lunar topic I just got Lunar SSS for PC. Gonna try it out this week and see how it is. I'll be playing Lunar SSSC for Saturn when I get my Saturn video card in the mail. I'm just about to finish the Sega CD version so I'd be nice to compare with the others. I've heard the Saturn SSSC with the better quality MPEG's is the best version. I just want to see what WD left out, besides the script. :)
heheh the medina i was in was all grassy and outsidey.
The saturn version is the best of the 3. the PSX one is damn good anyways though. :) working designs "americanizes" the script and crap, but its still fun
-
I never personally had a problem with Working Designs scripts. There were however times I felt there was unneeded humor. At least they didn't do literal translations. I felt they did a good job. Others will say otherwise though. At least they brought games over other companies were afraid to touch with 10 ft pole. I have to give them credit. Plus they went all out with their PSX releases. They gave us 3 fairly good RPG for the Duo, Parasol Stars and Cadash. So I cut them some slack. I actually wish they were still around.
-
I never personally had a problem with Working Designs scripts. There were however times I felt there was unneeded humor. At least they didn't do literal translations. I felt they did a good job. Others will say otherwise though. At least they brought games over other companies were afraid to touch with 10 ft pole. I have to give them credit. Plus they went all out with their PSX releases. They gave us 3 fairly good RPG for the Duo, Parasol Stars and Cadash. So I cut them some slack. I actually wish they were still around.
me too. The americanizing wasnt a bad thing at all. i bought the strategy guides just for the captions and jokes.
-
I NEVER have understood peoples hate for WD, never. I LOVE the humor, man, there's one line where a guy starts saying that he's Steve & is looking for Guy Kazama, that right there made them one of my favorite companies EVER! That might've been Lunar 2. My wife just started Lunar 1 but she didn't find that guy. Also, I have the original Saturn version & I recall not being impressed, it has slow down, which, I don't remember the PS1 version having :-k
-
Is your saturn version the complete one with the better quality MPEGs? Maybe the complete version has no slowdown. I will find out when the Saturn video card comes in the mail. I've always heard of the Saturn version being a bit better minus an english translation. Maybe that was being said by Saturn fanboys though. :-k
-
There was a Michael Jackson joke reference in Lunar 2 on SCD's manual.
In PSX Lunar 1, after the machine blows up and the dresser survives you're treated to "That must be some strong wood!" and laughter ensues....
A wheaties joke, a clinton joke.... the guy kazama thing
tons of goofy humor.
and thats just in Lunar games.
WD never released a bad game really ;)
-
Exile 2 isn't so hot...
-
Is your saturn version the complete one with the better quality MPEGs? Maybe the complete version has no slowdown. I will find out when the Saturn video card comes in the mail. I've always heard of the Saturn version being a bit better minus an english translation. Maybe that was being said by Saturn fanboys though. :-k
The Saturn version is noticeably better. The battle bgs are hi color while on PSX they're low color, effects were downgraded or removed for PSX, PSX loads longer and has an extra disc(?), saving takes way too long on PSX, english battle voices are annoying on PSX... there's more but I can't remember at the moment. The map effects are really noticeable for Lunar and Grandia PSX. I don't know if it's hard for the PSX to do infinite 2D bg effects or it's all bad programming or what.
There were however times I felt there was unneeded humor. At least they didn't do literal translations. I felt they did a good job. Others will say otherwise though. At least they brought games over other companies were afraid to touch with 10 ft pole. I have to give them credit. Plus they went all out with their PSX releases. They gave us 3 fairly good RPG for the Duo, Parasol Stars and Cadash. So I cut them some slack. I actually wish they were still around.
This is kinda how I feel. Even in the worst cases, it was worth it to get the games at all and some of the "improvements" were genuinely positive. But I still don't blindly love everything and anything by anyone/thing, WD or otherwise.
-
Is your saturn version the complete one with the better quality MPEGs? Maybe the complete version has no slowdown. I will find out when the Saturn video card comes in the mail. I've always heard of the Saturn version being a bit better minus an english translation. Maybe that was being said by Saturn fanboys though. :-k
I'm sure mine is just the regular version.
-
Mine is the MPEG version. Damn I wish I could understand it. Are there any guides? I imagine if there were they'd be on GameFAQs but I am too lazy to check.
-
I'm sure following one for the psx version would work. I don't know of how much different the saturn version would really be. I would think you could follow a psx guide fairly easy. Worth a try anyways.
-
Exile 2 isn't so hot...
Forgot to mention, I actually really like Exile 2, maybe I'm the only one :shock:
-
I like Exile 2 as well, but WD did screw up the stats in it pretty badly. The bad coldet was in the original game though, so they didn't f*ck that up...though they could have corrected it!
-
I think they did fix the boss song though, atleast, my jp. versions boss music is screwed up at the begining(I'm talking original, not an iso)!
-
So this has been boggling my mind for some time. Whenever Lunar: The Silver Star Story is brought up, almost always everyone is quick the bash the psx version, and they go on and on about how much better the Sega CD original was. The most common point is that they "screwed up the story", but I fail to see how. Sure they changed the story a bit, but honestly it's no better or worse than the original. It's kinda hard to screw up a typical cliched jrpg story line. The original Lunar was rushed out of the doors in an attempt to save the Sega CD from certain doom, and it was left largely unfinished (evidenced by 2 "important" characters that are only given an introduction and seen in a single battle near the very end of the game and never again, the fact that there was no "greater" evil, a formula that most jrpgs even at that time stuck to, the extremely short length of the game, and the general lack of polish in much of the game) I think the psx version, while probably not what the original would have represented had it been given more time to finish, is a much more finished product. It's much longer, has quite a bit more attention to detail, and generally more polished.
My main issue is also the story changes, there's a few particular things that stick out in my mind. I don't want to spoil too much but it actually makes no sense why Ghaleon for example, might be interested in kidnapping other singers if (as in the Playstation remake) he already knows that Luna is who he is looking for after Quark confirms this. There's a lot of plot holes and a lot of things that weren't broke that were fixed so to speak.
While there's more character development in the remake, it's not necessarily for the better, a lot of motivations were changed for less than obvious reasons.
Also, it's much longer? Are you kidding me, the Playstation version is far shorter for quite a few reasons, there's no battles on the overworld, the dungeon size is ridiculously small so the game can be blown through in under 15 hours for someone playing the first time. The Sega CD version is at least a time and a half the size, plus there's far more to explore.
I can only imagine 3 main reasons why people prefer the original more:
1. They changed it up quite a bit. Human beings are stubborn, we like the status quo and tend to resist or are reluctant to accept change. It's understandable if the change is not in a good direction, but in the case of Lunar SSS it wasn't really in any direction, good or bad. People might resent the fact that many of the changes seemed unnecessary (and in fact many were).
They changed it up to give the back story more of a Judeo-Christian theme in a number of ways. In my mind this made the story less original and unique.
2. Nostalgia. Most of the people who played both versions of Lunar SSS have probably played the sega cd version first, and probably closer to when it first came out (i am one such person). Typically we like or value the original more for nostalgic feelings.
Again, I disagree. Having spent a lot of time on the Lunar-Net forums, many users played the Playstation (or even GBA game) only to play the original later and prefer the original.
3. The sega cd is an underdog. Psx had many rpgs, and many good ones. Lunar certainly doesn't stand out much above many of the excellent psx rpgs, and might get quickly written off. Sega cd on the other hand had a small handful of AAA titles, and even fewer rpgs altogether. Lunar for the Sega CD was a platform defining game. If you get a sega cd or when you first get one, Lunar SSS is one of the titles that is always highly recommended and usually on most peoples to buy list. Had lunar never existed for psx it probably wouldn't have had much impact. Had it never had a sega cd release, it would have been a major blow to the system. Also, many people might be biased altogether against sony and the psx.
I agree partly, people like for the gold in otherwise barren mountains. But that doesn't effect the individual version.
So what do you guys think? Also, if anyone can provide any insight to the Japan only Saturn release for comparison I am all ears. Also contrary to popular belief the gba port never existed. [-(
Also, the Saturn version is basically the same as the Playstation version, there's also a PC port (same as well) and a Saturn MPEG version.
-
I think when people start getting too picky, things get messy.
They both accomplish the same thing:
Alex is a chump
Alex and friends go play in a cave
They end up in Meribia
A bunch of epicness ensues
Alex and friends defeat the Magic Emperor and save the world
Alex is no longer a chump