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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Zeon on May 31, 2009, 12:34:10 AM
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Serious question everyone: do you think asexuality exists? Asexuality being defined simply as "someone who does not experience sexual attraction". The question is not whether or not it actually does exist, but if you yourself think it does. I am trying gauge how people here both view and understand the subject.
Please discuss the reasons why you feel the way you do, as I am very interested.
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A human not interested in sex is not asexual. You can't have a penis and be asexual. Paramecia are asexual. Paramecia have no penis.
A human might not be interested in sex because he's got a medical problem, or more likely a psychological one. I can't expect a kid who was raped by their father every day for ten years to grow up into an adult with the same sexual urges as other adults. Likewise someone who denies their own homosexuality probably isn't going to be very good at pretending they are straight and may lose all sexual urges in the process.
Mainly though your question reminded me of this series of articles (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/no-us-anime.php) which ridicules the excesses to which otaku go, and the perverted excuses they have for being so f*cked up. Its very cruel and very funny. Its also barely a parody. I've seen guys like this. The worst one was saved by his parents who bought him a mail order bride. That seemed to really turn him around. I hope he's still doing OK because playing RPGs 24/7 in a basement is no way to live.
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actually (and oddly enough) zeon means this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality
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A human not interested in sex is not asexual. You can't have a penis and be asexual. Paramecia are asexual. Paramecia have no penis.
A human might not be interested in sex because he's got a medical problem, or more likely a psychological one. I can't expect a kid who was raped by their father every day for ten years to grow up into an adult with the same sexual urges as other adults. Likewise someone who denies their own homosexuality probably isn't going to be very good at pretending they are straight and may lose all sexual urges in the process.
Mainly though your question reminded me of this series of articles (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/no-us-anime.php) which ridicules the excesses to which otaku go, and the perverted excuses they have for being so f*cked up. Its very cruel and very funny. Its also barely a parody. I've seen guys like this. The worst one was saved by his parents who bought him a mail order bride. That seemed to really turn him around. I hope he's still doing OK because playing RPGs 24/7 in a basement is no way to live.
Sadly this is the viewpoint of so many who dismiss asexuality because they cannot fathom the possibility of it existing. Probably because for mny it is such an integral part of their lives. Asexuality as you describe is one definition, and does not apply to humans (unless we can suddenly split into two one day)
The whole "You were sexually abused as a child" argument is rubbish. The vast majority of people who identify as asexual, have never been abused in any way physically or sexually.
Also it's kinda hard to repress something that doesn't exist within you. Trust me as an asexual who is an understanding and open-minded individual and very open and understanding to homosexuals, why would I feel any need to repress something I have zero problems with? If I was homosexual believe me I would feel no need to hide it. Furthermore I am one of the many who was never abused in any way. I don't "chose" to abstain (ie celibacy) for any reason, there is simply no desire there. In fact sexual things, be it homo, or hetero, have always been equally confusing to me. I have never understood the appeal behind any of it. Believe me when I say I have looked into it, porn of all kinds has only served to confuse, disgust, or make me laugh (there are some really bizarre and funny fetishes). The obsession society as a whole has with sex, has never made sense to me at all. To me, it's a complete waste of time. Fine for those who understand/enjoy it I guess.
In regards to homosexuality, people are quick to admit homosexuality exists, mainly because you can observe it. However biologically speaking it's "not natural" as a man can't be impregnated by natural means. This is one of the plethora of reasons why people may acknowledge homosexuality, but not accept it. Asexuality is tricky because it is hard to observe and as such many are skeptical of it. Not seeing someone interested in sex or with someone, doesn't necessarily mean anything. They might be celibate, they might be emotionally scarred, who knows? I guess to someone who is sexual, where sex is a very integral part of there being and they feel the want/need for it, they can relate to both hetero's and homos alike, because in the end sex is had and a driving force for them. It's very frustrating that something that is so fundamental to me and many others to understand is so hard for others to fathom.
While the majority of asexuals statistically speaking are female, the are many males who identify as asexual too. So yes you can have a penis and be asexual, if you need further info here is an excellent site chock full of info on the subject:
http://www.asexuality.org/home/general.html
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Maybe the people that don't "believe" in it don't because it "goes against the norm." Humans generally are sexual, it's a pretty natural, even primal desire/need.
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So...if I smoke a lot of weed and totally lose my sex drive do I render myself asexual? I'm almost 36 and don't get as excited as I used to. Does this mean I'm slowly becoming asexual?
It is not biologically normal to have zero sex drive. Obviously there are some people like this, just as there are blind people, people with no legs, etc. As I said up there there are medical reasons for this as well as psychological.
But in general I don't believe many people who have an active sex drive would have one if it weren't for the hormones. Wanting sex is not a neutral state. Its something most people are chemically motivated towards. Therefore to not have an active sex drive means you lack the chemical motivation, or that its being suppressed by a crappy diet, or drugs, clinical depression, or a husband who doesn't know how to screw. My point is there are, of course, people who don't get horny, but this isn't a sexual orientation.
Furthermore I can easily see people grasping on to this fad definition in hopes of justifying their lack of wanting to interact with anyone, sexually or otherwise, or get a job, or finish school, or anything else.
So I guess I feel the same way about self-identified asexual humans as I feel about furrys. Keep your Eyes on the Prize and maybe you'll change my ignorant mind.
UPDATE: That AVEN site is hilarious. So you don't want to have sex, so what? You are going to make a f*cking newsletter about it, and start an awareness campaign? Awareness of what? We are now aware of the non-existence of your sex drive. Now that we know about it...so what? Is there anything in life more boring that knowing that something doesn't exist?
What is the point? Are rednecks lynching "asexuals" in Florida? Are you unable to get a job as a grade school teacher because the administrators think you are a pervert? Does the state say you can't get married? Did the church kick you out? Is there a "don't ask don't tell" policy in the military? Who gives a flying f*ck!?
It reminds me of that Bill Hicks joke about how he hates people and wanted to start a new political party around this idea, the People Who Hate People Party.
"People who hate people, come together!"...and then of course nobody does.
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the term you're looking for is 'celibate', not 'asexual'. it's certainly possible to have a libido so low that you hardly ever feel the need (when was the last time you wanked? feel free to tell me it's none of my beeswax) but 'asexual' is a zoological term for creatures that don't have anything resembling sex.
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the term you're looking for is 'celibate', not 'asexual'. it's certainly possible to have a libido so low that you hardly ever feel the need (when was the last time you wanked? feel free to tell me it's none of my beeswax) but 'asexual' is a zoological term for creatures that don't have anything resembling sex.
Not any more! Now its a political movement on par with Furry Old Lobster Awareness Month.
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UPDATE: That AVEN site is hilarious. So you don't want to have sex, so what? You are going to make a f*cking newsletter about it, and start an awareness campaign? Awareness of what? We are now aware of the non-existence of your sex drive. Now that we know about it...so what? Is there anything in life more boring that knowing that something doesn't exist?
What is the point? Are rednecks lynching "asexuals" in Florida? Are you unable to get a job as a grade school teacher because the administrators think you are a pervert? Does the state say you can't get married? Did the church kick you out? Is there a "don't ask don't tell" policy in the military? Who gives a flying f*ck!?
It reminds me of that Bill Hicks joke about how he hates people and wanted to start a new political party around this idea, the People Who Hate People Party.
"People who hate people, come together!"...and then of course nobody does.
It's pretty sad you feel that way, oh well. Why the need to inform people? If you bothered to read further, without a biased view, you would have your answer. Directly from AVEN:
Why would asexuals want or need to 'come out' anyway?
For some asexuals it really is the case that their asexuality is a complete non-issue, they never have any reason to mention sex and feel perfectly comfortable interacting with others.
Other asexuals find themselves in situations where they are expected to be sexual. They might feel pressured to fake sexual attractions in order to fit in and have an easy life. Many people find that those around them constantly bring up sexual attraction in conversations, be it sex talk in the office or "look at the legs on her". It might be easier to play along and pretend you have sexual thoughts and feelings, but in doing so you are effectively 'in the closet', whether to avoid shame or simply to make life easier for yourself.
Some asexuals have found it refreshing to come out as having no sexual attraction. They no longer have to fade into the background when sex comes into the conversation or fake sexual interest in order to fit in. They can be completely honest about who they are and what they feel.
Another reason to consider coming out is to increase visibility and acceptance of asexuals in our society. While you may feel perfectly comfortable with who you are, other asexuals feel broken or less than human. As more and more asexuals are visible in our society, the idea of asexuality as a valid part of human experience will become more widespread. Just one more openly asexual person increases the likelihood that other asexuals won't have to grow up feeling broken and ashamed.
Coming out is, of course, your own personal choice and no one will think less of you if you decide that it's not for you.
I don't know your problem is, but there are many different reasons. I would hardly call it a movement and I don't see how it would bother you so. My motivation is educating others about it, and aside from that I am curious about the subject in general. Also, you wouldn't believe how uncomfortable it makes you feel to be surrounded by those who constantly make you feel like you need to have a desire for sex when you have absolutely no desire for it. Either by talking about it, acting on it, whatever. Society as a whole seems to think you must have sex, because it's "only natural to do so". Homosexuals are persecuted, because their preference is "not natural" and people fear what they do not understand. In fact many Asexuals are labeled as "closet homosexuals". So yes often misinformation, and ignorance, can lead to persecution and conflict.
So...if I smoke a lot of weed and totally lose my sex drive do I render myself asexual? I'm almost 36 and don't get as excited as I used to. Does this mean I'm slowly becoming asexual?
Only you can really say.
But in general I don't believe many people who have an active sex drive would have one if it weren't for the hormones. Wanting sex is not a neutral state. Its something most people are chemically motivated towards. Therefore to not have an active sex drive means you lack the chemical motivation, or that its being suppressed by a crappy diet, or drugs, clinical depression, or a husband who doesn't know how to screw. My point is there are, of course, people who don't get horny, but this isn't a sexual orientation.
Oh really?: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Asexual_ants_discovered There exist species of ants who are asexual or rather, have changed over time and become (ie evolved) asexual. Granted this is the other definition of asexual, but it shows that it is not limited to single celled organisms and that it can have nothing to do with hormones. I cannot think of a more hormonal driven species than insects. In fact many asexuals have been tested for hormone levels, some have low levels, and some are completely normal. There is no correlation between hormones and being asexual. Logically it may sound like the cause, but scientifically it has yet to be proven, what makes one lack sexual desires.
Asexuality is only recently starting to be recognized, and in the past there hasn't been much research into it. Probably because no one was looking for it in any experiments/studies. This is slowly changing. The earliest study making mention of asexuality being in 1948: http://thomaskraemer.blogspot.com/2006/09/kinsey-scale-and-asexuality-1948.html
It is not biologically normal to have zero sex drive. Obviously there are some people like this, just as there are blind people, people with no legs, etc. As I said up there there are medical reasons for this as well as psychological.
Again how would you know? You make assumptions on what you know and understand to be true. Do I have low hormone levels? Who knows? Does it really matter? Would it change the fact that I still have 0 desire for sex? No, and furthermore it doesn't change the fact that I am perfectly happy and healthy without sex. Mentally, AND physically. What is normal for the majority, is not normal for an everyone. Furthermore the majority is not always "right", many times the majority is very wrong, proven by science later down the road.
Furthermore I can easily see people grasping on to this fad definition in hopes of justifying their lack of wanting to interact with anyone, sexually or otherwise, or get a job, or finish school, or anything else.
Fad? I don't see how, most asexuals don't feel the need to even speak up about it, and are perfectly fine just going along with life. It can't really be a fad, if it is something that rings true in ones life. Certainly you may see it as a fad or "movement", but in reality most are earnestly in the pursuit of knowledge and dispelling ignorance. Whether or not asexuals are persecuted, is not the issue. Most just want others to understand, and some want to not have that feeling of being an outcast, or a freak. Just because you see no reason for this educational endeavor, does not mean there are not legit and valid reasons to do so.
Besides many asexuals are still 100% capable of sex, their reproductive organs are intact and functional, many go into non sexual relationships, and are very happy. Even the aromantic asexual still yearns for, and needs companionship and support from others, be it family, friends, whatever. I plan on fully finishing school, getting a job, and interacting with people on a daily basis. I am in fact, a very social person.
Kinda funny how in all of your assumptions about asexuals, none are true in me personally and many others. If you think I am deluding myself or lying, it won't surprise me one bit It's clear as day that you have bolted your mind shut on this topic.
So I guess I feel the same way about self-identified asexual humans as I feel about furrys. Keep your Eyes on the Prize and maybe you'll change my ignorant mind.
I don't plan to change your mind as it is completely closed on the subject. I'd be wasting my time. Others who have an open mind however, are the ones I am after.
the term you're looking for is 'celibate', not 'asexual'. it's certainly possible to have a libido so low that you hardly ever feel the need (when was the last time you wanked? feel free to tell me it's none of my beeswax) but 'asexual' is a zoological term for creatures that don't have anything resembling sex.
Do you also believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological? Celibate is a choice, asexuality is hardwired into you from birth. I can't enjoy or have a desire for sex, even if I wanted to, it's just not there. Believe me I have TRIED, and I can safely say, it's not happening. Celibates still desire sex, they just don't let themselves do it. Again the low hormones is still just a theory, and has yet to be scientifically proven to be a cause, part or whole, to asexuality.
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Do you also believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological? Celibate is a choice, asexuality is hardwired into you from birth. I can't enjoy or have a desire for sex, even if I wanted to, it's just not there. Believe me I have TRIED, and I can safely say, it's not happening. Celibates still desire sex, they just don't let themselves do it. Again the low hormones is still just a theory, and has yet to be scientifically proven to be a cause, part or whole, to asexuality.
Yet you have shown no proof it's "hardwired" and not a choice (and the question about that same issue on homosexuality is still open to debate also).
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This topic is honestly very interesting to me, mostly because I can't fathom the idea of not having ANY sex drive at all. Noone here can really say what your feeling is either wrong or right. You feel how you feel and anyone that wants to argue with you and tell you your feeling are wrong is just ridiculous.
My questions are these:
If you have the opportunity to have sex, do you take it?
Just because you don't have the urge, does that mean you don't enjoy it?
Have you ever actually had sex before to know what its like or how enjoyable it can be?
Of course you don't have to answer any of these if you don't feel comfortable.
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Do you also believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological? Celibate is a choice, asexuality is hardwired into you from birth. I can't enjoy or have a desire for sex, even if I wanted to, it's just not there. Believe me I have TRIED, and I can safely say, it's not happening. Celibates still desire sex, they just don't let themselves do it. Again the low hormones is still just a theory, and has yet to be scientifically proven to be a cause, part or whole, to asexuality.
Yet you have shown no proof it's "hardwired" and not a choice (and the question about that same issue on homosexuality is still open to debate also).
Kinda hard with so very few studies on the subject. However as far as homosexuality goes, research is showing more and more, it is not a choice. However I feel it is one of those things, you have to "be" in order to truly "know". Also keep in mind that things such as if non whites are deserving of the same rights as whites, are still open to debate even today. Many years in our past the majority agreed that non whites were "sub human". Nazi's certainly felt those who weren't Ayran were inferior and were perfectly justified in their personal beliefs. In time we have come to know this is a disgraceful and incorrect view. However don't think many don't still truly believe non whites or non Ayrans are "sub human".
I don't see any reason why I personally would ever "choose" to be asexual. Choices are usually accompanied by some sort of reasoning, nothing is ever truly 100% done on a whim. I have no reason to choose to be asexual, let's look at possible reasons:
Religious/Moral reasons: Though I consider myself Christian, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that there is anything inherently wrong with sex. Nor do I believe anything is necessarily gained from celibacy.
Being rebellious/different: While it may seem like I go against the societal norms on a lot of things, it is not to be rebellious nor a conscious decision. I simply am being who I am. While I choose to go after a degree in computer science, I never chose, or decided "Hey I'm going to be interested in computer stuff". It's something innate in my nature and personality to like this stuff. I discovered and taught myself more about computers than anyone else ever did. I was initially drawn to them, no one had an influence on me ultimately deciding to pursue this interest.
I am suffered trauma/abuse/was scarred as a kid: Certainly not the case, my parents, nor anyone I knew ever abused me in any way. They are very loving and have nurtured my growth.
I am trying to hide/cover up my insecurities or I choose to be asexual because I have no luck in romantic relationships: Not true at all. I never felt compelled to seek out romantic relationships in the first place, and I certainly never understood the concept of "sex" or why any of it is appealing. However just because I seek no romance, this does not mean I am "soulless" or "incapable of loving" I have my emotional needs too. Without my family and friends to support me, I would certainly go mad.
I just want attention: Believe me if I wanted attention, there are far more effective outlets to pursue in that venue. I don't care for attention, or "being in the spotlight", if anything I try to avoid it.
Considering all of these reasons, can anyone think why I personally would "choose" such a path, especially when it is far from the norm? If I had a choice in the matter do you think I would for a second not choose to fit in? Yes you can argue it's a choice in the end, but it's a choice from necessity, while I very well could try sex, why bother when there is nothing there emotionally nor anything to compel me to do so? Just like how I choose a degree in computer science based on my innate liking of the subject and aptitude for it, or how I choose not to shove my fist into a blender. In the first case i make the decision based on something I know I like, in the second I base it on something I know I will not like. There is no need try try it out, you just know.
This topic is honestly very interesting to me, mostly because I can't fathom the idea of not having ANY sex drive at all. Noone here can really say what your feeling is either wrong or right. You feel how you feel and anyone that wants to argue with you and tell you your feeling are wrong is just ridiculous.
My questions are these:
If you have the opportunity to have sex, do you take it?
This has never arisen and if it did, I can say with 100% certainty the answer is no.
Just because you don't have the urge, does that mean you don't enjoy it?
More indifferent. I see sex more as something peculiar or interesting, much like a scientist might find how blind people better develop their other senses an intriguing subject, or how a junior high student in algebra wonders how can negative numbers exist? It's there, it's strange, but I don't enjoy, or dislike it really. It's mostly intriguing to observe certain aspects associated with sex, and why certain things are considered desirable over others.
Have you ever actually had sex before to know what its like or how enjoyable it can be?
Imagine the following scenario if you will: A pot of boiling water. You know from what you have been taught about the properties of water and/or prior experience with very hot objects/substances. Are you compelled to stick you hand in the hot water, or would you stick you hand into the pot of boiling hot water to confirm what you indirectly already know? I'd imagine not, you know it's not a good idea, and you would not enjoy it without needing to experience your hand in boiling hot water first hand. Replace prior experience and knowledge with observations of porn and attempts at masturbation to sexual images and not even understanding how it's possible (and instead laughing at some of the bizarre fetishes, or left highly confused), and replace the pot of boiling hot water with sex, and you have a good idea of what I mean. In fact many asexuals experiment with sex, and rarely ever is their mind changed.
Of course you don't have to answer any of these if you don't feel comfortable.
No problem man, the more you know... :wink:
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I can understand that you don't have the "desire" to have sex. But comparing it to putting you hand in boiling water? Putting you hand in boiling water would just be stupid as your already know the result would absolutely be pain and injury. Sex doesn't cause pain and injury unless you are a) into kinky shit (S&M) or b) have unprotected sex which has it's own set of complications.
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I can understand that you don't have the "desire" to have sex. But comparing it to putting you hand in boiling water? Putting you hand in boiling water would just be stupid as your already know the result would absolutely be pain and injury. Sex doesn't cause pain and injury unless you are a) into kinky shit (S&M) or b) have unprotected sex which has it's own set of complications.
It need not be something painful. Take food for instance, given past experiences with food and what people know about say deer penises, it is not a requirement for many to eat a deer penis to know you won't like it. There is nothing compelling you to eat one in the first place, and even if you don't find it repulsive, chances are not many will ever have a craving for deer penises before or after eating one once. Likewise if you could care less about cars, do you need to go to a nascar racing event to know you don't care for racing? There are many things you don't need to experience first hand to know if you like them or not, in most cases prior knowledge and experience will suffice. Besides if a "sexy" picture or video, be it naked or clothed, weird fetsh, softcore/hardcore whatever, elicits no reaction in you, why would having a sexy guy or girl, clothed or not, in front of you be any different?
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I guess your points are just very hard to understand for most of us. We are horny guys and just cant relate. lol
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I guess your points are just very hard to understand for most of us. We are horny guys and just cant relate. lol
Think of it like this, sexuals have a need for sex, whereas asexuals do not. To asexuals it's simply another subject, if you want sex, go for it, if not, it's just another interest. If you think of it as any other preference or interest, it's a little easier to understand. I can understand how I like the pc engine, but many others don't. If you can separate it from being a biological need (in fact there are many emotionally, physically, and mentally happy and healthy single individuals who live a good life and never have sex. certainly it isn't a requirement to continue living) you are on the path to better understanding those around you.
For me the idea of one needing, (or feeling that they need) sex is very foreign indeed.
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Play less games, date more girls. That will get rid of any Asexuality. Just make sure it's the right girl so you don't go homosexual. (it's ok to go that route though). You could also go HentaiSexual. Some people prefer that.
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I do get what you're saying as far as what it is Zeon. I guess it's just that most guy can't "relate". We can't possibly imagine the idea of not actually desiring sex.
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I have a question for you: I can understand wanting to tell your parents or close friends about this (so that your friends will stop trying to set you up on dates, and your parents will stop pressuring you for grandkids) but why should we care? you're not getting any, and you like it that way - so what?
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I have a question for you: I can understand wanting to tell your parents or close friends about this (so that your friends will stop trying to set you up on dates, and your parents will stop pressuring you for grandkids) but why should we care? you're not getting any, and you like it that way - so what?
Does it matter? There are far more trivial, and sometimes outright useless posts. Just because you see no value in it does not mean others aren't curious, or that I have no place posting it here. It's like your (or was it somebody else's?) thread on religion. A some don't care some do, and in more cases than not it boils down to people belligerently arguing about something that the person they are arguing with has no intention of changing their mind. The sensible people will have left long before then.
Sure I could go post on Aven and discuss with other asexuals about, well being asexual. But I am not interested in merely the point of view of an asexual. (Because they mutually agree on a lot of things, but certainly not all) This is as much of a learning experience for me, as it may be for others. Does a social scientist not try to find a diverse group of people that differ greatly from one another, when running an experiment to minimize bias and whatnot? Do we not want varied juries, in the pursuit of a fair trial? If you are not interested, so be it, you've said all you can really say. I don't post in threads that don't interest me, as I simply don't care and have nothing to say. Must we all tell our motives for the posts we make? :P
If anyone else has anymore questions, would like to discuss asexuality or heck sexuality in general and how it relates or differs from asexuality, or have any other constructive comments on the subject, I am all ears. :D
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I don't know if asexuality is genetic, a chemical imbalance, all in their heads, or caused by too much exposure to American Idol; but guess what, I don't really care. Much like homosexuality, it doesn't personally affect me, so I'm not about to persecute others for their behavior (or lack thereof in this case).
when was the last time you wanked?
I'm doing it right now. Fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap...... :-"
I have a question for you: I can understand wanting to tell your parents or close friends about this (so that your friends will stop trying to set you up on dates, and your parents will stop pressuring you for grandkids) but why should we care? you're not getting any, and you like it that way - so what?
Amen - assuming you meant 'coming out' in general and not just this thread. The reasoning given on the AVEN site that coming out is a way to protect yourself from all the sex obsessed people in the world is self-serving, puerile, and no less bigoted than they claim the 'normal' people to be. If your current friends talk of nothing but sex, then you need to find a different group of people to hang out with (preferably not 15 year old boys). If the topic isn't popping up (so to speak) nearly as often as AVEN suggests, then get over it. My friends regularly discuss topics of which I have no interest (i.e. - their children), yet I can politely smile and nod just like they do when I bring up something about which they could give a tin shit; that's the way the world works - it's rare to find a group of people who share the exact same interests in equal intensities. They also claim that coming out is to help increase asexual people's acceptance by society, which is almost humorous in light of the fact that few people seem to even care and they're not actively persecuted anyway (as noted by Zeta).
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My friends regularly discuss topics of which I have no interest (i.e. - their children), yet I can politely smile and nod just like they do when I bring up something about which they could give a tin shit
Then why do you feel the need to even reply in this thread? I certainly would not call your response "politely smiling and nodding". That, my friend, is call hypocrisy. Furthermore from the way you described Aven, you clearly misunderstood every bit of it's motives and reason for existence. Don't take it from me, take it from the site itself, (again, did you even bother to read it for more than 5 minutes? I am beginning you didn't even bother to fully read my previous statements, sorry if it's too long to bother with something you don't "give a tin shit" about. If you are going to be judgmental about something you don't even care to take the time and research, then please just "politely smile and nod"):
I'm so glad I found this community. People who have sex are so (annoying/stupid/wrong/evil), aren't they?
Annoying
Living in a society where everyone is assumed to be sexual and where the media, especially soaps and advertising, portray everyone as sexual and constantly tempted by sex, you might justifiably feel marginalized and ignored. You might find it deeply frustrating that the people around you can't conceive of your reality, that people are constantly assuming you have a sexuality. It's understandable that you might want to vent these frustrations by ranting about how much sexual people annoy you. This may not be the most reasonable way to react.
If people are inconsiderate to you because they don't understand your sexuality, then try explaining it to them. As your friends realize the existence of asexuals, perhaps they'll start to be more considerate toward you and those like you. The more people out there who know that they're friends of an asexual, the more visibility we'll have. Eventually we might even be represented in the media.
If you tell someone you're asexual and they still continue to ignore you and assume you're sexual, then you can rant!
Stupid
People who have sex aren't any more or less stupid than anyone else.
Sexuality itself can seem like a somewhat awkward and arbitrary activity, and it may be confusing that sexual people get so worked up over it. It's important to be as accepting of sexual people as you want them to be of you.
Wrong/Evil
There is nothing wrong or evil about sex and people who have sex. Sex is a beautiful pleasurable thing for those consenting adults who enjoy it. If you're looking for asexual people who'll be anti-sexual with you, you'll probably be disappointed. Being asexual doesn't mean you hate sex, it just means that you're not driven to have it. If you grew up asexual in a sexual world you might hold some resentment about sex but, as an asexual, it's just as likely that you wouldn't think about it at all.
The reasoning given on the AVEN site that coming out is a way to protect yourself from all the sex obsessed people in the world is self-serving, puerile, and no less bigoted than they claim the 'normal' people to be.
Uhhh where is said reasoning, could you please line me to where this is even suggested. Because I sure as heck can't find it...anywhere. This very "reasoning" is frowned upon by Aven, so I don't see where you are getting it from. In fact I will say this for probably the 4th time by now. Most are generally just curious and/or trying to better understand themselves and the people around them. I don't know what you are basing your stance on other than possibly biased generalizations you have made from spending 5 minutes on the site.
In fact, did you know that Richard Milhouse Nixon was the first US President whose name contains all the letters from the word "criminal" and William Jefferson Clinton is the 2nd? It's a completely useless fact but interesting nonetheless. Notice the key word there. Besides, how can you say knowledge of asexuality is completely useless? How can you possibly know or even begin to consider every possible situation and scenario for every person? I can think of 1000s of things that are more "useless" to know. I can, however think of reasons why asexuality IS useful knowledge:
The pursuit of knowledge - Be it curiosity, science, whatever the subject of asexuality is very interesting to many. Heck, if we study it further it might provide us with useful knowledge about human behavior, psychology, or any other number of useful things. How would we ever know if we choose to ignore it? What harm is there in documenting/observing/relating it to others?
Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue.
Are asexuals persecuted like homosexuals? No, and in fact it's not really fair to compare the two "causes", as they have different problems, different motives, and different hurdles to overcome. No ones trying to downplay the persecution, issues, and controversy that surrounds homosexuals. I can think of few who do compare it to the problems homosexuals deal with daily, unless you are asexual and attracted to the same sex in which case you still deal with the issues of homosexuality. (yes there is a distinction between romance and sex, you can be a bi, gay, straight or just plain aromantic asexual) If anything, most asexuals just want to promote awareness, and nothing more. Is there something so wrong with that? If so please enlighten me.
They also claim that coming out is to help increase asexual people's acceptance by society, which is almost humorous in light of the fact that few people seem to even care and they're not actively persecuted anyway (as noted by Zeta).
Again you misunderstand, by "acceptance" we simply mean acknowledging it exists. Suppose in high school your friends are distraught that you have never had a girlfriend/boyfriend. So they decide to "hook you up" with someone. You tell them politely and sincerely "Hey I am not interested" and at some point you say you an aromantic asexual, and explain what it means. Now suppose they do not believe you, or they do not believe that's possible. In fact they keep on trying to get you to go on a date. They have not accepted that your preference is even possible nor are they respecting you, simply because they do not understand. Or suppose you are in a relationship, and upon informing your partner that you do not wish to have sex with them, they respond with disbelief, and continue to make advances, thinking you are playing "hard to get". Then when you tell them about asexuality and how you have no desire for sex, they won't accept the fact that it is even possible. You see what I am getting at? It has nothing to do with prosecution and everything to do with understanding and knowledge. I fact one definition of acceptance is simply: "The mental attitude that something is believable and should be accepted as true" Given this, I do not see the humor in your conclusion.
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"Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue."
Conflict?? Man if people are fighting/dbating this, thats sad. Just tell them it's none of your damn business...like anyone else...conflict avoided. As for getting married..you DAMN well better deal with that WELL before then.
Asexuals, and homosexual "causes" have many obvious similarities...being "misunderstood", a minority, etc.
"asexual and attracted to the same sex in"
Asexuality is a sexual orientation describing individuals who do not experience sexual attraction (from wiki)...so your statement doesn't even make sense there.
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"Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue."
Conflict?? Man if people are fighting/dbating this, thats sad. Just tell them it's none of your damn business...like anyone else...conflict avoided. As for getting married..you DAMN well better deal with that WELL before then.
Things are nearly so simple as you propose. It's like saying racism could be eliminated from the world if we all just learned to love one another. There's much more to this than meets the eye, and that's all I'm going to say on that.
Asexuals, and homosexual "causes" have many obvious similarities...being "misunderstood", a minority, etc.
So do monkeys and humans, but do we concern ourselves with why monkeys fling their poo? Do monkeys care about the racial concerns/misunderstandings of humans? There are similarities yes, but to treat them as the same thing when they differ in so many ways, is unfair.
"asexual and attracted to the same sex in"
Asexuality is a sexual orientation describing individuals who do not experience sexual attraction (from wiki)...so your statement doesn't even make sense there.
Ah I am very glad you brought up this point. Let's examine these two statements more closely shall we?:
"asexual and attracted to the same sex in"
"Asexuality is a sexual orientation describing individuals who do not experience sexual attraction"
See the difference there? Look at it this way, are people not attracted to (or repulsed from) things for their physical beauty, aesthetics, etc? If you find a picture of the sunset beautiful, you are attracted to it, but are you compelled to have sex with it? I hope not. In much the same way, asexuals are attracted to other characteristics or traits of humans. Physical appearance, personality, similar interests, whatever. There is far more to romance than sex, and any romantic relationship based solely on sex, is not much of a valuable relationship is it? At this point you are having sex for the pleasure you get from it, and as soon as your partner no longer satisfies you, it's off to the next one. Asexuals and sexuals might both desire relationships. The only difference is the asexual doesn't want/doesn't enjoy sex (some do allow there partner to have sex with them in a compromise to make their partner happy, but to them they'd probably be doing something more interesting, like reading a book or playing a game).
Sex and romance are two separate things, one may lead to the other, but certainly neither is a prerequisite for the other. Just as some individuals screw and move with ease, having zero bonding/attachment to their partner, so can two individuals have a loving and meaningful relationship without sex. In the first case the person is likely not to care if something happened to their partner (as there are many more out there ripe for the picking), in the second, if something happened to one's partner, it would have a great influence on their daily life and be a deep concern for them.
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obvious similarities...
"but to treat them as the same thing"
when does similar mean SAME??
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obvious similarities...
"but to treat them as the same thing"
when does similar mean SAME??
I should rephrase: To treat the two issues as if they have the same problems, or to insinuate that they are both equally important to everyone for the same reasons, just because they are similar is not fair. What I am trying to get at is this: Homosexuals have different reasons and motives (and also similar ones) to spread the word from asexuals. To put them on the same level would be downplaying the plight of homosexuals. It also leads to untrue over generalizations and incorrect assumptions. (ie: Asexuals must be outcrying or trying to raise awareness because they are being persecuted like homosexuals, or that asexuals are just closet homosexuals) The end goal might be the similar, but that doesn't mean they don't still differ greatly in the journey to their goals.
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if asexuality REALLY exists and isnt just some SUPER depressed or scared goon that cant get a woody and is afraid of boobs........... I think its a brain defect.
Every human is biologically wired to reproduce AKA humpity hump.
anything straying from this is some kinda defect/imbalance/thingy that I dont know much about because im not a scientist or doctor.
PS: Your initial statement is more credible and all of that if you DONT yank it right from the first sentence of wikipedia, lol.
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Then why do you feel the need to even reply in this thread? I certainly would not call your response "politely smiling and nodding". That, my friend, is call hypocrisy.
Reading comprehension fail, zippy. Never did I say that this thread is without value or that I had no interest in discussing asexuality. Since you obviously didn't grasp it the first time, I'll try again: it's normal for groups of people to discuss topics that at least one member has little interest, yet the uninterested party will usually smile and nod until the topic changes rather than demand that everyone stop discussing said topic. I gave a specific example of a topic that doesn't greatly interest me (children), so it's a mystery why you thought that I was talking about asexuality in that instance.
Furthermore from the way you described Aven, you clearly misunderstood every bit of it's motives and reason for existence. Don't take it from me, take it from the site itself, (again, did you even bother to read it for more than 5 minutes?
Nowhere did I discuss AVEN's mission, but rather criticized a single point taken from their site. Try rereading my post.
I am beginning you didn't even bother to fully read my previous statements, sorry if it's too long to bother with something you don't "give a tin shit" about. If you are going to be judgmental about something you don't even care to take the time and research, then please just "politely smile and nod"):
Again: learn to accurately interpret others' words. If you'd bothered to read my post in its entirety, you'd see that I agreed with guyjin that it'd be useful to come out to one's close family and friends (a.k.a. - people who actually care), and that I only took umbrage with AVEN's notion that coming out to everyone under the sun is a good idea and anything other than self-serving.
Uhhh where is said reasoning, could you please line me to where this is even suggested. Because I sure as heck can't find it...anywhere. This very "reasoning" is frowned upon by Aven, so I don't see where you are getting it from.
Read your own quote from AVEN's site:
Many people find that those around them constantly bring up sexual attraction in conversations, be it sex talk in the office or "look at the legs on her". It might be easier to play along and pretend you have sexual thoughts and feelings, but in doing so you are effectively 'in the closet', whether to avoid shame or simply to make life easier for yourself.
Some asexuals have found it refreshing to come out as having no sexual attraction. They no longer have to fade into the background when sex comes into the conversation or fake sexual interest in order to fit in. They can be completely honest about who they are and what they feel.
As already noted, it's understandable to come out to close friends and family, but coming out to stop anyone and everyone from ever saying anything sexual is an entirely different story. If a conversation turns to something sexual and someone quickly reveals that they're asexual, then they're obviously trying to change the subject to defend themselves from an uncomfortable subject. It's no less rude than if I were to state that I hate kids as soon as someone starts talking about their kids. Furthermore, AVEN's classification of people's appreciation of the human form ("look at the legs on her") as strictly sexual in nature reveals their own bias against sexual people. Using that logic: if I think a little girl is cute, then I must be a pedophile; and if I say some dude has an impressive physique, then I must be gay. :roll:
In fact, did you know that Richard Milhouse Nixon was the first US President whose name contains all the letters from the word "criminal" and William Jefferson Clinton is the 2nd? It's a completely useless fact but interesting nonetheless. Notice the key word there. Besides, how can you say knowledge of asexuality is completely useless?
Uh, I didn't. I only intimated that knowing that a specific person is asexual is useless, as simply coming out does absolutely nothing to educate others about asexuality (outside of learning that that person is in fact asexual, of course).
How can you possibly know or even begin to consider every possible situation and scenario for every person? I can think of 1000s of things that are more "useless" to know. I can, however think of reasons why asexuality IS useful knowledge:
The pursuit of knowledge - Be it curiosity, science, whatever the subject of asexuality is very interesting to many. Heck, if we study it further it might provide us with useful knowledge about human behavior, psychology, or any other number of useful things. How would we ever know if we choose to ignore it? What harm is there in documenting/observing/relating it to others?
Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue.
Are asexuals persecuted like homosexuals? No, and in fact it's not really fair to compare the two "causes", as they have different problems, different motives, and different hurdles to overcome. No ones trying to downplay the persecution, issues, and controversy that surrounds homosexuals. I can think of few who do compare it to the problems homosexuals deal with daily, unless you are asexual and attracted to the same sex in which case you still deal with the issues of homosexuality. (yes there is a distinction between romance and sex, you can be a bi, gay, straight or just plain aromantic asexual) If anything, most asexuals just want to promote awareness, and nothing more. Is there something so wrong with that? If so please enlighten me.
Blah, blah, blabbitty-blah. Since you probably didn't get it the first time, I'll say it again: simply coming out does not educate society about asexuality.
Again you misunderstand, by "acceptance" we simply mean acknowledging it exists. Suppose in high school your friends are distraught that you have never had a girlfriend/boyfriend. So they decide to "hook you up" with someone. You tell them politely and sincerely "Hey I am not interested" and at some point you say you an aromantic asexual, and explain what it means. Now suppose they do not believe you, or they do not believe that's possible. In fact they keep on trying to get you to go on a date. They have not accepted that your preference is even possible nor are they respecting you, simply because they do not understand. Or suppose you are in a relationship, and upon informing your partner that you do not wish to have sex with them, they respond with disbelief, and continue to make advances, thinking you are playing "hard to get". Then when you tell them about asexuality and how you have no desire for sex, they won't accept the fact that it is even possible. You see what I am getting at? It has nothing to do with prosecution and everything to do with understanding and knowledge. I fact one definition of acceptance is simply: "The mental attitude that something is believable and should be accepted as true" Given this, I do not see the humor in your conclusion.
Point taken. The way the previously quoted paragraph's first sentence is worded, it conveys that they are seeking acceptance of asexuals rather than acceptance of asexuality, but I should have read the first sentence in the context of the entire paragraph.
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Zeon/Zippy, if you feel you're asexual then fine. Look on the bright side. You'll stay single, have lots of money for video games. So what is the problem? You don't need sex, great! All this talk isn't really educating anyone that would maybe want to know. Also no offense but why does everything you reply to have to be a 12 page essay?
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Yeah the giant Tolstoy responses are
.......making me asexual.