PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: zborgerd on June 22, 2005, 02:49:26 AM
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Heh. I guess some guy has a boatload of those alleged "bootleg" copies of Sapphire. I ordered one so that I could get my hands on it to further investigate these things. It may not be one of the "legit" versions, but I think it's certainly a better deal than some lesser games (like Kaze Kiri and Magical Chase).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8200713107&rd=1
This guy has sold several of these within the last few days. I suspect that he'll be listing more as well. I wonder how many people paid upwards of $400 for one of these, only to end up getting would could be a "fake".
I think it would be fun to try to discover what exactly happened with this game, and why there are all of these alleged "fakes" out there. Who knows... They really could be part of a legitimate second print run as described in the above link.
I think it's a good game for me to start using that sealed/brand new Arcade Card Pro that I got a month ago. :)
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From the pics, it looks like the real thing. I don't have a copy myself to compare with but if you can't tell the difference between this version and the real thing, then how would somebody know it's a fake? :)
It's possible that a bunch of old stock just turned up somewhere and nobody knows the origin. The seller's explanation seems plausible especially with similar things happening with Circus Lido and Akiyama Jin Suugaku Mystery. Both showed up on amazon within the last 4 or 5 years and both were commanding crazy high prices beforehand.
Circus Lido is practically common now but the Akiyama Jin game can get up into the couple thousands of $$$.
I don't really see the reason to counterfeit some 10 year old game with such precision. I realize that some scammer could enter any collectors' market and entice those people with authentic looking "rare" stuff and make off with the cash. However, in this case, the accuracy of the packaging and seemingly thorough attention to detail would suggest, IMO, that there was a lot of effort to reproduce this so-called fake.. perhaps more effort than it was worth to scam the market.
Anyway, it'd be nice to have Sapphire selling at lower prices and I wouldn't mind snagging one of these questionable copies. If no one can prove it's fake, then it isn't.
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Good point. It doesn't matter to me if it's a fake, to be honest. Frankly, nobody knows if Hudson didn't just happen to have someone else make a second run of this game in the first place. If it were done through a different company, then it could explain the slight discrepancies between the colors and print quality in the two different versions of the game. It's hard to tell.
They really do *look* authentic enough. VideogameImports had some info on this a few years ago:
BEWARE OF COUNTERFEIT COPIES OF SAPPHIRE ON PC ENGINE ARCADE CD!!!!!!
Yes, unfortunately it's true; there are counterfeit copies of the very rare and expensive shooter GINGA FUKEI DENSETSU SAPPHIRE. We received 2pcs of the game today as a part-exchange from a regular customer (who I am sure does not know that they are not original). Upon opening the box, something just didn't look quite right. However, they were fully factory sealed with the little tear off strip, they had the spine card, which even had the little slant on the back as with all PC Engine spines. We haven't opened them but they appear to even have a registration card inside. Luckily, we had a used copy of the game in stock and could make a comparison, and it was only then that we could see that it was obviously a counterfeit game, albeit done extremely professionally! Points to look for include:
The orange colour (see the Arcade CD logos at the front, side and back) is a brighter shade in the counterfeit version. The original is slightly darker and is extremely lightly 'dotted' with with very tiny white dots. They are barely visible to the eye, but they are there. Looks like the counterfeiters were unable to replicate this.
The artwork on the front, of the girl, appears very slightly out of focus.
The most noticeable part is on the back cover, where there are pictures of the 2 Arcade cards. The counterfeit version is much more fuzzy looking, and the picture of the planet is unclear. With the picture of the the Arcade Card Duo, on the original version, you can see a very thin white outline around the part of the card with the artwork on it. On the counterfeit version, there is no white outline.
I would recomment everybody considering buying a new or even used copy of this game, to be extremely careful. Even if you are buying from people or business held in high esteem, they may be unwittingly selling you a counterfeit copy.
There is no mention as to how the actual disk appears in comparison to an "original" of this game. Someone, a few years ago, published some side-by-side comparison photos. I think it was NCSX. I'm going to see if I can track it down.
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There's another one online.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8200821974&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
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This was never at the top of my list to get, but I'm interested in how this turns out. Please report on the disc when you get it. If its a real pressed disc, that would be pretty nice.
I've often wondered about the quality of Dracula Xs you see on ebay from Hong Kong- whether they are legit, and if not, how good is the reproduction? Heck it would be just fine with me if nice reproductions were available for all Turbo Games. I would pay $30 a pop for them no problem.
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These almost look worth getting, but I would like to know just how legit it is.
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zborgerd, I'd be interested in hearing about what you think of the quality of the "fake" once you get it. I'm going to keep a look out for other auctions and hopefully I can get one.
Update:
Wow, this guy must have a number of them. There was a total of 3 I've seen so far. I was able to get one, but I guess we'll see. Hopefully the seller won't have a problem with my zero feedback. :p
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zborgerd, I'd be interested in hearing about what you think of the quality of the "fake" once you get it. I'm going to keep a look out for other auctions and hopefully I can get one.
Update:
Wow, this guy must have a number of them. There was a total of 3 I've seen so far. I was able to get one, but I guess we'll see. Hopefully the seller won't have a problem with my zero feedback. :p
He seems like a really nice guy so far. Has been very communicative, and indicated that he'd ship it out tomorrow.
Apparently, he purchased an A4 sized box full of them, from Japan, in 2001. What's interesting is that it apparently had a Hudson label on the box.
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He seems like a really nice guy so far. Has been very communicative, and indicated that he'd ship it out tomorrow.
Apparently, he purchased an A4 sized box full of them, from Japan, in 2001. What's interesting is that it apparently had a Hudson label on the box.
Man, I wish I could have found a deal like that. A4 is fairly large. Proabably 20 or so copies. I'd like a get a couple copies. :)
I'm still not convinced these are fake. If what has been said is actually true, these seem to be more on the legit side than ever. It's pretty common that dead stock is found all over the place. Lost and forgotten until someone stumbles across it. I've seen instances of this many times over the course of the time I've lived in Japan. Hell, I've cleaned places out of their dead stock of sealed/new Famicon and PCE games that a clerk just found somewhere in the stock room.
Ok, I admit... I want these newly found copies to be legit. I'm not gonna lie about it. :)
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Man, I wish I could have found a deal like that. A4 is fairly large. Proabably 20 or so copies. I'd like a get a couple copies. :)
I'm still not convinced these are fake. If what has been said is actually true, these seem to be more on the legit side than ever. It's pretty common that dead stock is found all over the place. Lost and forgotten until someone stumbles across it. I've seen instances of this many times over the course of the time I've lived in Japan. Hell, I've cleaned places out of their dead stock of sealed/new Famicon and PCE games that a clerk just found somewhere in the stock room.
Ok, I admit... I want these newly found copies to be legit. I'm not gonna lie about it. :)
I agree. I hope that they are real simply because it makes a previously rare game more available to people at reasonable prices. $500 for a game is downright ridiculous.
I've seen many games where there were packaging discrepancies. It could mean any number of things... Hudson could have hired someone else to do the printing and packaging. Companies get CDs pressed and packaged by different companies all of the time. I've seen second runs of audio CDs that have had some pretty significant packaging differences.
I suppose that he could have sold them all at outrageous prices. I'm not sure why he didn't. It seems like he just wants to give these to good homes. Maybe he just doesn't feel it's right to scam people for $500. I guess I'll find out what sort of condition it is in when it arrives. For all I know, it could be a CDR; but it certainly *looks* authentic. I've seen these "counterfeit" copies go for $500 before, to unknowning buyers. I've written sellers to let them know that the copy that they've offered is possible one of these "counterfeit" versions, and often they insist that they've never heard of the existence of these fakes.
I'll post more details for everyone when it arrives. :)
By the way. He says he does have a few copies left.
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I bought one [had to resist buying multiples] It was shipped today....cannot wait to get my hands on it. Seems totally feasible for the "2nd run" story to be true. Interesting about the box he bought them in and Hudson's inability to confirm them being fake. I'm crossing my fingers some concrete evidence about the origin comes out eventually. Either way, $60 is awesome.
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I'll add more warm fuzzies to this conversation. :)
Turns out that I know of this seller because we've both been on the Turbo list for quite some time. I've never had any kind of trouble with anybody on the Turbo list and he's no exception. He does know a lot about the PCE too. Search the list archives if you want I'm pretty sure he's in there somewhere.
It's true he could have easily sold all of the copies for much more, but it does seem that he just wants to make a highly sought after game available for a reasonable price.
For that, respect++ to the seller.
BTW, he's sending mine out right now. :)
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I'll add more warm fuzzies to this conversation. :)
Turns out that I know of this seller because we've both been on the Turbo list for quite some time. I've never had any kind of trouble with anybody on the Turbo list and he's no exception. He does know a lot about the PCE too. Search the list archives if you want I'm pretty sure he's in there somewhere.
It's true he could have easily sold all of the copies for much more, but it does seem that he just wants to make a highly sought after game available for a reasonable price.
For that, respect++ to the seller.
BTW, he's sending mine out right now. :)
Yeah, his price is awesome..."alternate" version or not. He could easily get more for these...or scam people. But he's cool and friendly and reasonable. And like you said, he seems to want to just make them available for people...very cool.
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Let me join the discussion !
Actually I'm the one who bought them in Tokyo a few years back and put up those Ebay auctions now. If you have any questions, just let me know.
Since Ebay kicked one (out of ten) of the auctions and I first want to clear things up with them, I've put up a small site where you can get the game (in case you're interested).
The adress is: http://sapphire.anime4ever.de (http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/)
Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.
Thanks,
Fudoh
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Let me join the discussion !
Actually I'm the one who bought them in Tokyo a few years back and put up those Ebay auctions now. If you have any questions, just let me know.
Since Ebay kicked one (out of ten) of the auctions and I first want to clear things up with them, I've put up a small site where you can get the game (in case you're interested).
The adress is: http://sapphire.anime4ever.de (http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/)
Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.
Thanks,
Fudoh
awesome man! Thanks again!
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Let me join the discussion !
Actually I'm the one who bought them in Tokyo a few years back and put up those Ebay auctions now. If you have any questions, just let me know.
Since Ebay kicked one (out of ten) of the auctions and I first want to clear things up with them, I've put up a small site where you can get the game (in case you're interested).
The adress is: http://sapphire.anime4ever.de (http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/)
Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.
Thanks,
Fudoh
Welcome to the forums! Nice to see you here. Looks like everyone is excited about your box full of Sapphires. :)
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I want one copy!!!!!!!!!!
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Just drop me an email (if you haven't yet). You'll find the email on the page I've put up ( http://sapphire.anime4ever.de (http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/) ).
Thanks !
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Payment sent!!!
Tobias, thanks for everything
I'm looking forward for this game :)
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Payment sent!!!
Tobias, thanks for everything
I'm looking forward for this game :)
Woo Hoo! Sapphires for all! :)
This will be a day that goes down in PCE gamer history. :)
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Yeah, I spilled the beans and told him what forum I came from when I put in my order. :oops:
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this is exciting! im crossing my fingers, reloading my inbox every 5 seconds hoping i didnt miss the boat ;)
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Shipped the first pile yesterday. European fellows should have it early next week. International buyers sometime later next week...
(http://ebay.hazard-city.de/sapphire_lot.jpg)
(http://ebay.hazard-city.de/sapphire_lot2.jpg)
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Shipped the first pile yesterday. European fellows should have it early next week. International buyers sometime later next week...
I can't wait! :)
(http://ebay.hazard-city.de/sapphire_lot.jpg)
I almost fainted after seeing that. Maybe I can get a 2nd one? :) I don't want to prevent anyone from having a chance of picking one up though.
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WOW!!!!
I'm glad that everyone else gets a chance at getting one of these like I did. We'll all be playing Sapphire in a few days. I had *no idea* that you had this many when I said you had a lot of these. I suspected about 5 or 10, but this just blows my mind. :)
Thanks Fudoh!
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I found a thread with comparison images. I forgot that it was in these forums:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1032&sid=706c370bdeb2b78244caa673dbba755a
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so excited I can't stand it
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I found a thread with comparison images. I forgot that it was in these forums:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1032&sid=706c370bdeb2b78244caa673dbba755a
Frankly speaking, I really don't care "if" it's counterfeit as long as it's complete and the disc isn't the home-made CD-R.
I don't have $500 to burn on this game but who cares...... :P
I think Sylphia will be my last game to get :D
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I found a thread with comparison images. I forgot that it was in these forums:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1032&sid=706c370bdeb2b78244caa673dbba755a
Frankly speaking, I really don't care "if" it's counterfeit as long as it's complete and the disc isn't the home-made CD-R.
I don't have $500 to burn on this game but who cares...... :P
I think Sylphia will be my last game to get :D
In case you missed it in the Sylphia thread:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8200983226
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Later last week I had the chance to borrow an "approved" original from a friend of mine and do a few comparison shots. Unfortunately I didn't have access to an original manual and my digicam is quite shitty, but it should give you an idea.
(Approved) Original always to the left, reprint to the right.
(http://ebay.hazard-city.de/comparison.jpg)
I'm on holiday now, but you can always reach me via email and a friend will take (good) care of sending the remaining games after the payment has been received. (He actually put up another one on ebay as well...)
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Wow. Is there any chance we can get a larger image of that? That's fascinating. :)
The ring in the center of the reprint's disk is indicative that it's not official... Unless it's just an illusion. I don't think I've ever seen a PC Engine disk with that sort of reflectivity. The center ring looks larger as well.
If it is a "fake", the effort involved in duplicating the game is superb. The limitations of the materials at the fabrication facility are perhaps the only limitation.
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Maybe, I have to get a better digicam and borrow my friend's copy again. Let's see.
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Well, I ended up buying it now, & today ebay cancelled the auction, thankfully, it ended obviously, & I had already paid, the only downside, is that we can't give eachother feedback.
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Sometimes Ebay is ridiculous, while especially on Ebay.com thousands of burned DVD-Rs with asian movies are available and you can easily track down a cheap copy of Dracula X, they cancel something like that.
From my understanding Ebay didn't cancel the auction by themselves, but because somebody feeled pissed and reported the auction. Such a poor soul - nothing better to do than to denounce...
Feel free to leave feedback in this thread once you receive your game :)
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The ring in the center of the reprint's disk is indicative that it's not official... Unless it's just an illusion. I don't think I've ever seen a PC Engine disk with that sort of reflectivity. The center ring looks larger as well.
Yeah, I looked at the pictures a little closer and noticed the same thing. I've seen a lot of bootleg games (especially for PS1) and in every case, the game is so obviously bootlegged. Mostly a crappy print job and the bootlegger's logo give it away. :) This Sapphire is much different.
This one is much tougher to distinguish. Without side by side comparisons (thanks Fudoh!), it would be near impossible. Anyway, I noticed that the orange heart on the spine cards is a little different. I'm not sure if that's just the lighting but it looks darker on the "fake" side.
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Sometimes Ebay is ridiculous, while especially on Ebay.com thousands of burned DVD-Rs with asian movies are available and you can easily track down a cheap copy of Dracula X, they cancel something like that.
From my understanding Ebay didn't cancel the auction by themselves, but because somebody feeled pissed and reported the auction. Such a poor soul - nothing better to do than to denounce...
Feel free to leave feedback in this thread once you receive your game :)
Probably Bullseye :shock: ....I really have no idea.... :D
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I don't think that it's unlikely that a few "power sellers" out there might have some of these that they pawn off every once in a while for $500. I would suspect that there are those that don't want the world to know about the existence of this "alternative print", in order to keep values ridiculously high on this game. I have seen this very same "reprint" sold on Ebay several times before under the guise of an "original".
It make me wonder if "reprints" like this could saturate the market a bit, if the game value would drop since it would be possible for everyone to have access to the game. I'm still interested in seeing what arrives. I'm hoping I'm impressed by it. :)
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I'm waiting as patiently as I can to see how this is. I can honestly say that I don't care if its a pirate as long as it works correctly in my Duo-RX. Paying 500+ dollars for this just isn't an option for me, especially now since I'm in college.
It would be kinda cool if this type of copy would bring down the originals in price. If it dropped below $200 I would think about purchasing an original. That is after I get the cheaper games that I want. Anyway someone let me know how this copy turns out. I ordered mine sometime after everyone else who did, so it will get here sometime next week hopefully.
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I am interested in any copy, that is as legit looking as that. As long as it plays properly with a Duo system and doesn't screw up the machine...I don't care if it was burned onto paper I want a copy :shock: :D
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I am interested in any copy, that is as legit looking as that. As long as it plays properly with a Duo system and doesn't screw up the machine...I don't care if it was burned onto paper I want a copy :shock: :D
It sure is exciting. I've always want to play this game. :)
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Judging by the feedback on Ebay, a few people have already have theirs... And they seem to be *very* pleased. ;)
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I got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.
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I got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.
Did it come via DHL?! God I hope they left mine on the doorstep!!!
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I got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.
Post Office left me a note to pick it up tomorrow morning.
So happy that my copy is here, well, almost :)
Too bad that my Duo is in the box and I don't know where it is since I'm moving to a new apartment....damn....
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I got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.
Did it come via DHL?! God I hope they left mine on the doorstep!!!
No, USPS.
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Did it come via DHL?! God I hope they left mine on the doorstep!!!
All games have been sent registered, so there shouldn't be any "doorstep" dropfoffs. You'll need to sign for it.
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I got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.
Post Office left me a note to pick it up tomorrow morning.
So happy that my copy is here, well, almost :)
Too bad that my Duo is in the box and I don't know where it is since I'm moving to a new apartment....damn....
I also got a note from the post office. I'm going to try to pick it up today. :)
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holding mine in my hands right now! :D
Love it, nobody should worry about these hurting the actual collector's market for the authentic one though...in my opinion its obvious these are "alternative" [but I come from a printing background]. VERY PLEASED though. Gonna' look great with my other games. Can't wait to get home and play it!!!! Thanks again!!!!
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I hate waiting :D
I loved this game when I played it before, so this is truly a great find. I'm so jazzed-up about this that I hooked the Duo back up last night, and I got the new version of MagicEngine setup on my PC.
This is gonna rule!!!!
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I got a registered mail today and it turned out to be some forms from my company! What a freaking let down! :evil: That about ruined my day.
Oh well. At least now I know people have been getting them so mine should be arriving soon I hope.
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holding mine in my hands right now! :D
Love it, nobody should worry about these hurting the actual collector's market for the authentic one though...in my opinion its obvious these are "alternative" [but I come from a printing background]. VERY PLEASED though. Gonna' look great with my other games. Can't wait to get home and play it!!!! Thanks again!!!!
Well, if they're even close to Ever Anime/Son May(or whatever)/HK soundtracks quality I'll be very happy.
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Just got mine from the post office. These are excellent quality. I'd almost be willing to say that they are originals or pre-production samples... BUT...
I did some research, and found that they were mastered by a company in Europe called "CARE4DATA", who was recently purchased by ECFgroup/Mediamotion.
http://www.care4data.ch/index2.php
http://www.ecfgroup.nl/domains/default/pages/content.asp?content=12760000000231_0_10000000001651&basicsiteid=27
Apparently, someone near Zurich has been having these things manufactured. It's certainly intriguing, to say the least. :)
My guess is that someone got ahold of the original data. I'm sure that scanners exist to replicate this stuff pretty well, but someone worked hard to make this as convincing as possible. The dead giveaway is the CD itself. It is certainly not mastered in Japan and ring in the center is unique. I've never seen a PCE game with one.
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VERY interesting. I also noticed the "care4data" on the bottom ring. Almost looked it up too. The stuff is offset printed to be sure...obviously taken from scans of the original given the hit that the print quality takes when compared to an original. So, if these are coming out of Switzerland...then they are different from the Asian bootlegs well documented on the net??? Seems likely these are a new NEW batch then. ???
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VERY interesting. I also noticed the "care4data" on the bottom ring. Almost looked it up too. The stuff is offset printed to be sure...obviously taken from scans of the original given the hit that the print quality takes when compared to an original. So, if these are coming out of Switzerland...then they are different from the Asian bootlegs well documented on the net??? Seems likely these are a new NEW batch then. ???
Certainly very possible. We're entering an age were high quality bootlegs are very easy to produce with modern equipment that can be purchased or rented by anyone. I suspect we'll see a lot more bootleg games in the future, from all sorts of places around the world.
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Switzerland has a strong PCE community, unfortunately most of them french speaking, so at least ouf of my "range".
I'm not sure if this swiss link above really fits. care4data Benelux on the other hand sure seems like a giant cd/dvd reproduction facilty (care4data.be). Even if produced in Switzerland I've never before seen any being offerend from this side (Switzerland). Distributing them in Japan must have been no. 1 priority - with shops paying up to 30.000 yen for used ones in Tokyo not a bad idea.
I've seen people buying copies all over the years from japanese stores and it's always been either the "very original" or these ones. Also the article on this british videogame site from 2002 (also posted above) refers definitely to these (since I at least know who they got theirs from).
Well, nevertheless, I hope you feel good about these and don't feel ripped off at this pricing !!
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Well, nevertheless, I hope you feel good about these and don't feel ripped off at this pricing !!
Not in the least...VERY PLEASED
thanks again!
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Switzerland has a strong PCE community, unfortunately most of them french speaking, so at least ouf of my "range".
I'm not sure if this swiss link above really fits. care4data Benelux on the other hand sure seems like a giant cd/dvd reproduction facilty (care4data.be). Even if produced in Switzerland I've never before seen any being offerend from this side (Switzerland). Distributing them in Japan must have been no. 1 priority - with shops paying up to 30.000 yen for used ones in Tokyo not a bad idea.
I've seen people buying copies all over the years from japanese stores and it's always been either the "very original" or these ones. Also the article on this british videogame site from 2002 (also posted above) refers definitely to these (since I at least know who they got theirs from).
Well, nevertheless, I hope you feel good about these and don't feel ripped off at this pricing !!
I'm very pleased with this game. I think that we all knew perfectly what to expect and it's exceeded my expections.
One of the reasons I purchased it is simply because the mystery behind this version of the game really peaked my couriosity. Plus, I finally get to use that brand new Arcade Card Pro.
I just played the first few stages of the game, and it's VERY fun. Reminds me of a blend of Soldier Blade and Lords of Thunder. In fact, since the music was done by the same group (T's Music, I think) it's almost like hearing "Lords of Thunder Part 2". :)
In that sense, it's like a blend of two of the best PCE shooters ever made.
Thanks for the great item and very prompt shipping!
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Now I can't wait to get mine. My Arcade card Duo needs to see some use, and this should fit the bill nicely. I assume they work fine in a Duo since I haven't heard otherwise. Once I get it I'm dropping everything that day to play it, even if I have to call off work to do so.
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so it begins...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8202768374&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
at least its only buy-it-now.
Still waiting for the first jackass to try and pass one off.
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I hope I can get one still. :(
I emailed Fudoh, if he's out I'll try the new eBay auction.
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Yay! He got back to me and I've got one coming.
Thanks, Fudoh!
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Mine came today, but nobody was there to sign for it so.........it looks like I'll have to wait till' tuesday to pick it up :cry:
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I've got to pick my copy up at the post office tomorrow. I've been itching to play this for quite some time. I just hope it doesn't let me down; doubt it will though. I've got to brush up my shooter skills for the occassion. I've been playing too many RPGs lately.
On a rather long side note two other games came in as well. One I've played before, but the other I haven't. Anyone have info on the second one, its called Magicoal. I read the discription up for it and I got suckered into buying it. The seller described it as:
"A very cool overhead action/RPG with a heavy puzzle element, much in the spirit of Alundra for the Playstation. Both characters have their own unique abilities neccessary to proceed through the levels. One or two can play, and the computer will control the inactive character in one-player mode."
Right there it scored about 4 points with me in that:
1. Its an Action RPG
2. It has a heavy puzzle element.
3. Like Alundra :)
4. Two can play.
Anyway if anyone has played it let me hear an opinion. If it ends up sucking, oh well. It won't be too bad since I didn't spend much on it.
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I have Magicoal and I think it's quite a nice game. You don't really need to know Japanese to play it at all, though it would certainly summon up the story better. However last time I played it, I got stuck on this one part and just could never figure it out, which is where not knowing Japanese is deadly. Other than that, it's a sweet game. It has excellent gameplay with tons of different magics and items (the menus are really unique and loaded with cartoony graphics describing each magic and item), the graphics are very colorful like a SNES (hell I'd say it looks better than some), and the music is superb as well. There is also this other two-player mode you can choose where you get to battle each other or something (really nice music track in the room to choose this option).
From what I've understood in what you posted, I think you will absolutely love the game ;) .
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It's a great game, & to me, is more like Secret of Mana, rather then Alundra :D
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I got all of them yesterday and I must say it was intense. I do indeed enjoy Magicoal, and Sapphire almost made me cry (with pure gaming goodness). I mean this is what games were supposed to be like. Good music, better gameplay, and that little something that makes you always come back for more. Fudoh has my thanks for not charging an arm an a leg for his copies like he could have. I probably would have not picked it up otherwise at least not for a few more years.
Anyway thanks again Fudoh. I'm having a blast with Sapphire. It might not be quite worth the $500 price tag of an original, but its definately worth what I paid for it. :D
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Mine just showed today. I am going nuts waiting to go home and play it. Today may be a long lunch :)
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Got my copy yesterday as well(not to mention I recieved me Ys Oath in Felghana), needless to say, yesterday was a great day! Thanks Fudoh! Everything is perfect, & away, I go to play :D
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Thanks Fudoh! just got mine about 1/2 hour ago. i've had a terrible sour throat for several days so i guess i'm "lucky" in not having to work today.
on sapphire is there anyway to change your ships speed?
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I just got my copy of Sapphire from Fudoh last week.
Thanks to LiquidSnake mentioning it in neo-geo.com :D
I don't care if it's legit or not pretty much, i wanted a copy to play with. Heck i'm not realy worry about it's value or any thing.
Beside is cheaper then trying to get a copy off,of Ebay and we know how bad that can be.
PS:For collectors who fear it will mess.... up the market you can go to hell for keeping it's value up.
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Finally got a arcade card afther playing it,it's pretty sweet.
Thanks again Fudoh :D
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keep an eye on this:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Sapphire-PC-engine-Unopened_W0QQitemZ8210119621QQcategoryZ4315QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
I plan on emailing anyone dumb enough to bid on it.
so it begins...
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keep an eye on this:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Sapphire-PC-engine-Unopened_W0QQitemZ8210119621QQcategoryZ4315QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
I plan on emailing anyone dumb enough to bid on it.
so it begins...
I totally agree with you. Also, not to cast suspicion on anyone who visits these boards, but I hope the seller is not "one of us" (even a lurker). But we should definitely warn folks about this. If it weren't for these boards, I know that I wouldn't know about pirated PC Engine games (I've only encountered one obviously pirated game -- a 4-in-1 HuCard).
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Somebody could just check Fudoh's bidder history and see if a guy named Decker45 or whatever has bought from him recently, that would seal it.
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How can it be factory-sealed but not have a spine card?
Something smells fishy to me.
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Isn't it an amazing coincidence that this shows up shortly after all these copies of Sapphire have now been spread around? Hrm...HRM......!!!
Fishy? A tuna boat just showed up outside my front door...they could smell my screen 500 feet away...
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Come on! You think everyone who bougth this intend to playit ;)
nah - there are enough folks out there who would try to make profit!
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That is totally a fake. :)
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Alright guys, I've been following this thread with interest for a while. I saw this on eBay today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-Duo-PC-Engine-SAPPHIRE-Import-Shootem-up_W0QQitemZ8210727874QQcategoryZ4315QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Should I pick it up?
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Alright guys, I've been following this thread with interest for a while. I saw this on eBay today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-Duo-PC-Engine-SAPPHIRE-Import-Shootem-up_W0QQitemZ8210727874QQcategoryZ4315QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Should I pick it up?
That one's been up almost as long as this thread.
Its the same deal. If you want one of these knock offs at a reasonable price the seller's feedback looks good enough.
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It really depends on what you want to get it for. If your collecting I would look for a real copy. If your looking to just play it then you might want to pick it up. I can vouch for it working a Duo R/RX with an Arcade Card Duo, and I'm pretty sure other systems setups will play it too.
It is an amazing reproduction despite it being obviously that. On the other hand you are paying for pirated merchandise which doesn't sit well with most people for obvious reasons. Anyway its a great game, and if you don't have a problem about shelling out money for a pirated copy then go ahead and get it. It doesn't rape your system like regular CD-Rs are rumored to do, so if your worried about that don't be.
Fudoh was selling them for around the price the auction you listed does. It is likely they got it from him so these people don't seem to be trying to gouge you.
On a side note looky what I found in asian_dvd_classics' history.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=asian_dvd_classics&items=25&page=2&frompage=-1&iid=-1&de=off
Our dear friend decker77 seems to have bought two items from them at about the same time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what they were.
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Our dear friend decker77 seems to have bought two items from them at about the same time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what they were.
I wrote Decker77, asking for better images, mentioning that it looked like the bootleg version of the game, and that there was no spine card pictured.
The response:
it's not missing a spine card... i have my personal copy slid back in the shrink wrap and wasn't thinking when i took the pics. i have corrected that in my pictures for the item. I made two closer pics and posted them of the exact item. what do u want to see closer of. i am not sure how to get a pic perfect nd clear without using the flash on my cam. when i do that tho the flash causes a glare off the shrink wrap.
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The CD is by far the easiest thing to look at by itself and determine whether its a fake or not. Ask him to take a picture of the CD itself with his copy. He says he bought them both when it first came out so if his copy is the bootleg we've all come to know he is lying. I believe he bought them at the same time, just that it happened to be this July :roll: . I would like to see his reply to requesting a picture of the front of his CD. I'm sure it would be amusing to say the least.
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Paladin & zborged: thanks for your efforts! I am certainly interested to see what our friend does.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8210727874&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Looks like the one I was interested in was bought up by an anonymous buyer. Betcha it shows up at triple the cost soon...
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Check this out-
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sapphire-PC-engine-Unopened_W0QQitemZ8210119621QQcategoryZ4315QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
looks like decker "original" now has the spine card-
Amazing how some people will screw over the uninitiated/uninformed-
Almost makes me want to bid, not pay and then leave negative feedback-
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My internet's been down for a good week now, so I don't know if this is old news... but it looks like bullseyes_videogames_collectibles is selling a Duo-R + Sapphire for only $525.
It looks like they're now peddling the bootlegs as the real deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8194304912&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT
"Also Included is the game:
Ginga Fukuei Densetsu Sapphire. It is very rare to find, especially COMPLETE In Original Case. Game Disc is in MINT/Brand New like Condition, Instruction Booklet is Mint (Maybe unopened/untouched since these type of games can played without knowing anything), and Case is Excellent condition (some shelf wear and one crack on backside). Have had a couple questions if the spine card is included, when I got this I did not know that they existed or what they were, and I don't see it here so the answer is no, so Back of the Case says copyright 1995, so it is in gem condition for being that old. Heck, I still see these selling for over $400 for this game when it actually is listed (hardly ever), so this is a bargain. In order to play this game on the system you must have (OR BUY FROM US) the PC Engine ARCADE CARD DUO we have listed in another auction."
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And they've got another boxed Duo-R for $380-
http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-PCE-Duo-R-SYSTEM-BRAND-NEW-MINT-IN-BOX-USA-Seller_W0QQitemZ8141326816QQcategoryZ62054QQcmdZViewItem
So they're just throwing in Sapphire for only $145. Who says these guys are ripp offs? :wink:
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God damn that Bullseye.
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Does anyone else hear get a headache just looking at the manner in which Bullshit uses fonts? It is absolutely insane and makes it difficult to read, among other things.
PERHAPS that is the intended effect: to discourage folks from reading the text.
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Hah that'd be hilarious if you were right!
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What I can't believe is that anyone buys anything at all from him.
Even if he had 100% positive feedback and wasn't selling garbage, all his prices are like double the going rates and he doesn't list anything that actually rare.
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Does anyone else hear get a headache just looking at the manner in which Bullshit uses fonts? It is absolutely insane and makes it difficult to read, among other things.
PERHAPS that is the intended effect: to discourage folks from reading the text.
Damn, just another reason why Bullseye sucks.
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So is there a way to make the ships in sapphire move faster?
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I don't think so because they were trying to balance out each ship/character in the game with some being faster and slower, poweful and weak, etc...
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I don't think so because they were trying to balance out each ship/character in the game with some being faster and slower, poweful and weak, etc...
So, maybe try another character.
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So, maybe try another character.
Pricisely 8) .
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Hi folks, I'm new here. I just discovered this forum and since I'm a long time fan of NEC's litte wondermachine, I chose to register. After looking around a bit I found this topic.
I'm very sorry I didn't come here earlier so I could have warned you: The copies of Sapphire which that guy sold on ebay are indeed counterfeits.
They were made around mid 2001; not '99 or 2000 as this scammer writes on his page. I was in Tokyo at that time and I am pretty sure there were NO fake Sapphires then.
The people who made them (most likely in Asia) did not have access to Hudson's original printing templates, so they had to use an original copy as "master" which they scanned. Since the original was printed using the offset printing method, the colored parts consist of tiny little dots, while black lines are very sharp. When reprinting it from the scans, this could not be duplicated, of course. That's why the counterfeits are slightly blurred / out of focus. When you look closer, you'll also notice that the colors don't quite match: All parts that are yellow in the original are almost orange in the copy (for instance the katakana writing), the purple vest of the girl on the cover is blue in the counterfeit.
Another thing the fraudsters didn't manage to replicate exactly is the factory seal's tear strip: The original was approximately 0.5cm from the bottom while theirs is higher up in the middle of the katakana letters. Maybe their equipment couldn't do it or maybe they had no original sealed copy for reference. Another thing they simply _could_not_ copy is the serial number on the inner ring of the original CD, which is identical for all original copies.
Those counterfeits were produced for one purpose only: To scam unsuspecting collectors out of a lot of money. Of course this only worked for a short time (until it became known that counterfeits were out there).
I had a good laugh when reading that German scammer's website http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/
"Alternative copies" - what a funny euphemism. Basically all he writes there is complete bullsh*t. Why would a game copany issue a second print run to keep prices down on the secondary market?? Hudson never did such a thing, and not a single shop in Tokyo claims they did. This is, plain and simple, a lie.
Too bad so many of you fell for this. I contacted ebay about the counterfeits several times, they chose not react (just as usual). The guy who sold the counterfeits on ebay (ebay name asian_dvd_classics) knew full well he was selling bootlegs - that's why his auctions were set to "private"; that way the people who bought the fakes couldn't even be warned. You may think that $60 for a nicely made replica isn't a bad price... I'm sure it wasn't for asian_dvd_classics who paid considerably less when he purchased a box full somewhere in Asia and made some $10000 selling them during the past 3 months. I for one think that even $5 is too much for a bootleg. I also think that he is a criminal who should be prosecuted and punished to the full extent. Anyone here know his real name?
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Hi Ceph, First off welcome to the forums, we always like to welcome new members, as I was fully welcomed by everyone here.
However, I must point out that we all know that these are bootlegs, and guess what? We don't care. Most will agree that $500 for a game is too much. For us, buying a really good bootleg is just as good, even though it me be about the price of a new PS2, or Xbox game.
With that in mind, it is not necessary to flame Fudoh by calling him a scammer. After all, no one forced us to buy his copies. Most of us are adult enough to know we are paying for bootlegs. As mentioned, we really don't care. It works well, and looks great with the rest of our collection. As long as there are no errors, I'm fine with it.
Fudoh was a really nice guy and came through with the product. If he was stealing our money, he would be a scammer but he is not. He is merely providing a product that people want.
I also think most of us feel less guilty seeing a copy that has a spine card, booklet and case (bootleg or not).
I think the collectors like Bullseye are the real scammers. If you read on to our forums, most people frown upon other people that rat people out on ebay for the wrong reasons. Fudoh sold his copies buy it now for $59.95 while some of his customers turned around and where asking for nearly double or triple. Those are the real scammers.
Im not mad at you. Your point is accepted, and noted. This is a case of good intention bad judgement.
Fudoh may be a father with children to feed. He has to do what he has to do. If selling those copies put food on the table for his wife and children, than it was worth it.
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Ceph, I think you should check out this thread https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=846&highlight=sapphire+laser+disc . Michael Helgeson makes some excellent points why it might not be a counterfit. I believe it's not a counterfit either mainly because of Michael's reasons, but I can't say I believe Fudoh's story about these alternate Sapphires being a second run by Hudson. I think it could be a possibility, but who knows? For now from the facts I have gathered, mainly from Michael, is that I believe it's not a counterfit.
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Ceph, I think you should check out this thread https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=846&highlight=sapphire+laser+disc . Michael Helgeson makes some excellent points why it might not be a counterfit. I believe it's not a counterfit either mainly because of Michael's reasons, but I can't say I believe Fudoh's story about these alternate Sapphires being a second run by Hudson. I think it could be a possibility, but who knows? For now from the facts I have gathered, mainly from Michael, is that I believe it's not a counterfit.
I still think that they're bootlegs, but am very glad that they exist.
The reason most game bootlegs are lower quality is to make them worthwhile to buy.
Most of the major bootleg music cd/soundtrack publishers' disc are around the same quality that these Sapphire's sound like. Except with Sapphire, they didn't alter the images to make it look like they were distributing it instead of the original Japanese publishers.
And since the goal here was obviously to make a realistic looking copy, I'm not surprised that it looks as good as it does(but as inferior as it is to the real deal).
Since it doesn't have Ever-Anime or Son May or whatever all over it, that means that its not supposed to be a cheap copy, but a genuine counterfeit. And the only reason someone would got to the trouble of making a counterfeit and not just an Ever-Anime type copy is because of Sapphire's value.
Even if the print quality wasn't obviously reproduced, the fact that its not a real PC Engine disc is giveaway enough.
But like I said, I'm glad that they're out there. I just wish that people wouldn't sell them for hundreds of dollars as originals.
But if someone did buy it for $60, thinking it was an original and they just want to enjoy it for themselves, then it doesn't matter what it really is if it makes them happy(thinking that its real as it gathers dust on their shelf).
If someone buys one for $60 with the intention of jacking up the price and making a buck on someone elses' back, then let them find out what they were really buying when it shows up in the mail.
Whats legal and whats moral not only aren't equal, but are inconsistant within themselves.
Its legal to reproduce video game system hardware like the NES and even ripp off the artistic likeness for profit(or not for profit).
But its not legal to reproduce a game that hasn't been published in a decade and that the maker has no intention of ever selling again... for profit(but it is legal for personal use or to giveway). Even though you're not taking money away from anyone, because the refuse to sell it.
Now, if you're going to just yell from behind "its illegal!", as people did about downloading/sharing free roms for years(before it was deemed legal), does that mean if a judge changes that tomorrow or if the copyright/trademark/etc runs out that you're all of a sudden okay with it?
And if not, if you're all about the moral aspect of this kinda stuff and you feel that getting something for free or paying someone other than the original owner for it is wrong, well its now legal a lot of the time, so you can't turn all the commies in.
What I don't get, is why aren't these people up in arms about no one paying licensing fees to cavemen or ancient egyptions or the authors of campfire songs or catchphrases?
The ridiculousness of nobody being able to even think of something they experienced without paying someone for it is getting out of hand. If they're going to sue clothing stores for playing cd music or the radio(or putting tariffs on cdrs, which of course are used for nothing other than stealing music), then they might as well sue you for replaying the same songs in your mind while you're flipping burgers at McDonalds.
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Ceph, I think you should check out this thread https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=846&highlight=sapphire+laser+disc . Michael Helgeson makes some excellent points why it might not be a counterfit. I believe it's not a counterfit either mainly because of Michael's reasons, but I can't say I believe Fudoh's story about these alternate Sapphires being a second run by Hudson. I think it could be a possibility, but who knows? For now from the facts I have gathered, mainly from Michael, is that I believe it's not a counterfit.
These are counterfeits -- I've never doubted that. But since few of us can afford to purchase a genuine copy of the game, these are, unfortunately, the next best thing. I was going to buy one, but then I decided not to.
The biggest problem, as I see it, is the fact that unscrupulous sellers will attempt to sell this as a genuine item.
I've said this before, but it bears repeating: If it weren't for these boards, or for randomly reading an old discussion archived at the TurboList (R.I.P.) , I would be the sad soul who would pay $300 for a counterfeit Sapphire.
I stopped purchasing Gameboy / GBA games on ebay because there is a deluge of counterfeit items and there is no way to filter out the bad sellers (why? because otherwise honest folks are unknowingly re-selling counterfeit games they thought were legit).
So, ultimately, counterfeit items really do far more damage than good. And it breaks my heart to say this, because I still would love to get a counterfeit copy of Sapphire.
In my heart, I agree with Black_Tiger about the Sapphire counterfeit providing a useful function for the Turbo community ($60 beats $300 pricetag)... but I don't think this "good" outweighs the overhall harm (tears are falling on the keyboard as I type this).
P.S. I'm conflicted over this issue, for sure. As I said, I would love to have an affordable reproduction of the game, and I got THIS CLOSE to buying one from Fudoh. If money wasn't so tight, I'd be holding a copy in my hand right now :). Of course, that wouldn't change how I felt about this issue at all. I'd feel guilty for compromising my principles, but then again, I'd be able to play Sapphire.
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You shouldnt feel guilty at all,as I do not think Hudson would care one way or the other about fans just wanting to play the game.
Also,the disc manufacturer,Care4Data,did anyone try to get ahold of one of their pressing plants to see if they can still do pressings for PC Engine?
ANd yea,really,I dont care to own Sapphire,but looking at my friends 2 copies,unless you would have a original infront of you,I dont think anyone could tell,you would think its real,wether real or not,I think 60 bucks is a great deal for a real pressed disc of a very rare game.It not like he is selling cd-rs.Your still getting a great quality product for what its worth.
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You shouldnt feel guilty at all,as I do not think Hudson would care one way or the other about fans just wanting to play the game.
Ahh, let me clarify: When I said I would feel guilty, I would feel guilty because I had violated my own principles (by supporting counterfeiters, who do more harm than good, IMO) simply because I wanted to play a game (a rather selfish reason to deviate from one's own principles).
If I buy this game, I'm contributing to the "greater harm" simply for the sake of my own selfish good.
I'm not trying to convince agree with me :). I'm simply explaining where I stand on this issue, and how I struggle with my DESIRE vs. my ethics.
I'd purchase a pirated multi-cart, for example, because it makes no pretensions at being a genuine item. Not so with Sapphire. Or maybe I wouldn't purchase a multi-cart. I don't know...
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Look at it this way,your keeping the rare multi carts and bootlegs of wonderful shooters from filling landfills,and overall keeping polution down in the process.Where will it all go if you guys dont buy the good bootlegs.I agree with you to some aspects,current stuff Id never pay for.But rare carts of stuff I would,or a cool looking bootleg that has nice artwork or something,that would make it stand out other then the simple fact its a clone.And a real pressed 100 percent working disc,Id go for that too of a out of print game thats 5 + years old.My friend Eric,he has alot of MegaDrive carts that are fakes,like Contra Hard Corps,which has Duke Nukem for the front cover,making it funny to look at.Stuff like that is great to collect and overall laugh at.Plus its really cool to take them apart and see the reverse enginering that is done.I got him afew Famicom carts a couple years ago,including one that had SF2 on it.For 8 bit bootlegged SF,it was really close as far as the Nes/Fami is concerned.
I did however hate bootlegged Neo carts,and cart converts for Neo.I dotn approve of them,because you can just as easily use a MVS and Super Gun.Sooner or later,there wont be enough of lets say "rare MVS cart A"
to go around because the majority of them have been converted.Ninja Masters and Kazuna Encounter are 2 carts that come to mind for the MVS that this has happened to.
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Personally I wouldn't buy it just because I can't stand the thought of spending good money on a fake something. If I'm gonna lay out some cash, I only want real authentic shit.
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The only reason why it can be a "second run", is because no company would press just one game to make a lot of money. Why stop there? How come we don't see more Dracula X, or Bonk 3 CD copies?
If they really wanted to make a profit we'd be seeing more titles. And why go through all the trouble to put out a game that is over a decade old? Why only PC Engine? Why not high quality xbox and ps2 games?
It doesn't make sense to just dismiss this as a bootleg. I haven't seen too many bootleggers that would go through all that trouble.
Also these started to pop up shortly after the release of the original game. So the story of Hudson outsourcing the production of more copies is certainly possible.
My two cents.
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glad a couple of people agreed with that theory of mine.Since no one here has tried to contact Care4 Data,to ask for production cost and what not,who knows.Im not going to bother,its not my real worry.I worry about getting more laserdisc these days.
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It makes sense to be a bootleg because it's worth a lot of money per copy sold -- the profit margin is way higher than selling counterfeit GTA3 or Dragon Quest 8, and it's harder to detect because there are fewer originals in the market. The timing is also interesting: they appeared right after warehouses emptied out their PCE Arcade Card Pro/Duo stock --- so when these bootlegs were made (2001-ish), demand for Sapphire was at its HIGHEST ever. It was brilliant timing, really.
At the time these were made, it was much easier and more profitable to make counterfeit Sapphire than it was to make counterfeit PS2 or Xbox games.
They're fakes -- live with it. I'm not saying that in any ethical sense: if you're fine with the idea of buying forgeries, be my guest. But trying to rationalize them as being anything other than bootlegs is self-delusion.
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I agree with the rocker, I don't get how anybody can not see these are fakes. Big companies like Hudson don't give a shit about selling a few hundred copies of some old PC Engine game, the profit they would make on that is miniscule and not worth their time in any way. The ONLY time you EVER see reprints of games is in the tens of thousands like greatest hits games or the extremely RARE reprint of a game for a current console (like Suikoden III for example).
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Not saying its real,but Im not saying its a fake either,as Care4Data is a huge pressing company in the world,with alot of pressing plants.It isnt normal for large pressing plants like this to do short orders.And for all the naysaying,have you tried to contact Care4Data,or Hudson to ask if they requested Care4Data to make a pressing of the game?Untill you do,and present these facts here or wherever,you cant truely say they are fake.
Your opinion is not a fact,its your opinion.I gave you alot of information about disc pressing,along with Care4Datas contact info for many of their plants.Also,game press runs in Japan are much smaller then in the US,as they are space restricted,and generally try to only make what they are sure to sell,so it is actually very realistic to think that Hudson would order another small print run for the game,as the first was infact very small.Also,if the pressing plant they used to use was no longer pressing/mastering disc,making knickle stampers,and what not,then they would indeed have to use another plant.The booklet arguement is useless,because if it is by chance a second run done a couple years later,and of corse pressed by a different company,then odds are the paperwork could have been done at that press plant,or new printing equipment,from digital archived scans of the booklet info.
So the printing will look different.They will not be taken off the original press plates,as those would have been disposed of by Hudson long before.Game companies usually archive in data format,as any other method is subject to breakdown faster.Pressing plates do break down over time,as they wear out.They are not going to keep them.With any second pressing of anything,you are going to notice differences between presses.This is natural.Its really funny I am defending a pressing of agame I dont even like,but crap,you guys ar enot providing facts,or really investigating enough.All your doing is spouting off its fake fake fake.Where are your facts?
O yea,I had 2 copies of Graduation 2 for Pc Engine.There was color differences between the 2 on the covers.The mint marks had the exact number count on the disc,but were vary different numbers,showing drasticly different time line between the 2 prints.
I cant see or imagine a huge pressing firm like Care4Data doing a small run bootleg order.It i spossible,but very unlikly overall.They would make no money off of it,as it cost manpower hours to press compact disc.Even injection molding requires a 24 hour man crew.They are not going to do this for a 1000 press run.It would have to be a larger order.It is not as cheap to press a data/music mix disc compared to a normal music cd also.
It requires more work,more testing and confirming,and quality checks,as data for programs is not as forgiving for, lets say a game system,compared to a music track can be on any cd player.They would have to do a quality check every few hundred disc to make sure the stamper is still holding up.
Yet again,this cost money.Selling a game for 30 bucks on ebay will not make enough for a recoupe of that magnatude.Ask any pressing firm,they will surely tell you this.You just have it stuck in your head of the small cost to produce the disc plastic,and no tthe total cost to master,press,make the stamper,print paperwork and packaging,and plastic wrap,plus manpower,which these people are not cheap.Im telling you a typical bootleg run will not generate the recoup required to make the money spent back,plus profit at the price the game is being sold.Not just this,but pressing PcEngine disc require older technoligy matsering software,that almost all plants have gotten rid of in favor of new ones.
Alot of it was abandoned back in 98-2k,way befor 2k1 rolled around.Part of the reason was y2k.Alot of companies were just ditching older hardware and software if it couldnt pass a clock test.So alot of plants switched to newer stuff back by the end of 99.You are going to be hard pressed to find a pressing plant willing to drag this older equipment out of storage that is required to press Sapphire at a small bootlegg press run of 1000-2000.Ther woul dbe no money in it at all.Ask any press plany manager,they will assure you of this.Making music cds i smuch cheaper too,dont compare the cost.A music cd does not require the same press quality test as often,does not usually have a full color booklet over 10 pages,and is made in huge numbers reaching over 10,000,thus making profit reachable since a marginal sell of the release will pay for the manufacture cost,testing,mastering,pressing,knickle plates,manpower,and so on.Funny how Im going into all this detail,and you guys have nothing equally informing to offer other then"its a fake".
Make a better arguement.Contact either Hudson,or Care 4 data.Inquire about the pressing.Tell Hudson about Care4 data,as if they ever used any othe rpress plant other then their own.
Do something more to prove your point then just spit out"its a fake".
This isnt a unreasonable request.If I can track down all the Care4 Data plants and give links on the forums here when this was originally debated,then you guys can write a few emails.
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Amazing I spat all that out while watching Big Trouble in Little China on laserdisc.
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You just put forth a theory on the difficulties in pressing a mere few thousand copies of Sapphire.
So who's more likely to do such a thing:
1) Hudson, to sell each copy at around 2000 Yen each (or so) to any retailers who still sell PCE games... and to do this without telling anyone so that even Japanese people say they're fake
2) a bootlegger, who will sell copies on eBay/YJ for 40 to 60 THOUSAND Yen each, and then dump boxes' worth of remaining stock to retailers at "bargain price" (2000 Yen each)
Anyways, I just emailed Care4Data to ask about their role in officially pressing forged Sapphire copies. I eagerly await an affirmative response.
Just kidding.
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Actually you should email them.Why not,if you really want to know.And I think Hudson could take the cost easier then a bootlegger can.Hudson could eat the cost easy.50,000-80,000 dollars is ass-wipe money to Hudson,but to a bootlegger,that is not a easy recoupe.That is usually way more then a bootlegger will make in a few years Im sure.Shit even 150,000 isnt much to a large company,yet to a normal small guy operationits quite a bit(and is infact how much my house cost,in which I make around 11 grand a year,and my girlfriend makes 50 grand a year,and we will prob never get it paid off anyway), if they did it to break even,which is possible.At that time they could very well have broken even or made profit,back in 98-2k.And you have to remember stuff like Dead in the Brain was being pressed still,long after the system should have been dead.And they would have had to either way make the second print run different so that you could tell.Ive never seen any second print run mimic the first exactly.It just doesnt happen.And like I also stated before,youd never in your life see a "Best of"logo on a Pc Engine title,so it would be a more discrete rerelease.Also,I odnt live in Japan,and can not confirm how many are floating about,but can confirm from some LD collectors,people I chat with from Yahoo Japan that also collect games, that they did appear in 99,and were purchased at alot of normal game stores at average game cost.These are people who collect laseractive stuff,and who I found out that Game Stock Japan had a fully decked out Laseractive for a grand,and that Game Stock is a rip off too.
It could be a fake,but it could be real.But untill your going to inquire more info from the presser,and Hudson,and present facts to support any claims of a game being a fake,present some facts first.
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I would be embarrassed to ask a business if they engage in criminal behavior. You do it.
As for facts: there are lots of facts indicating it's a fake. The timing of the release, the discrete nature of the release, and the physical differences. Those are all facts supporting it being a bootleg.
BUT:
"In 2001, Hudson decided to re-release Sapphire when they saw it on eBay!"
"Hudson didn't advertise because they didn't have special packaging!"
"The physical differences were because of y2K, when the old machinery was thrown out, because Hudson did wait 6 years to reprint the game, after all!"
Honestly, such claims are ridiculous. Occam's Razor is a good tool, use it.
Unsupported claims of production costs (which are probably irrelevant because either 1- it was done by someone with inside/friend connections and thus didn't cost that much, or 2- was funded by Yakuza/gang-style organizations, or 3- was privately funded by a seller who already had a surplus of money) don't prove that Hudson did it -- it just shows that wow, it actually costs money to press CD's. People are more likely to make that money back when they charge a lot per copy, which a Hudson reprint would not do.
No one is out to "eat" any costs. They're out to spend money and make more than they spent.
But if you want to support and defend scammers who don't sell the product as what it really is, be my guest. The proper way to sell these games, if they're going to be sold at all, is as "bootlegs priced low so that the average PC Engine enthusiast can enjoy the game". But calling them "alternative versions", or a "possible reprint" is a SCAM that takes advantage of people who don't know any better.
I have more respect for sellers who overcharge for genuine products than scammers who sell $60 "alternative" Sapphires, because at least the over-chargers are advertising their product honestly, leaving the decision completely in the hands of the buyer. The scammers try to influence the decision by lying/misleading about these fakes' origins.
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Why would you be embarrassed to ask about them doing a pressing?
And these I have been told by a few Laseractive collectors in Japan appeared back around 99,not 2k1,2k2,2k3.Youd be supprised ho wmany LD collectors actually loved the Pc-Engine,and things like that dont go unnoticed.But,I did not say Im positive its real either,and you are having a anal reaction to me simply asking you to show some real facts that lead towards it being a fake.
1.LD/PC Engine Laseractive collectors in Japan that I chat with on Yahoo have already told me that these have popped up in 99,not this last year.
2.The money being made on ebay right now is not enough to recoupe on cost,unless the largest majority is sold for the maxium amount in the fastest period.Since there are still afew here and there on ebay,I doubt this level of sale has been reached.If it was bootlegged,then I feel sorry for the saps who spent the cash to have it done,they didnt make the money back.
3.You have not contacted Care4Data,or Hudson about,to even try to prove them fake.You just "say" they are fake.That isnt really good enough.PROVE they are fake.
4.It isnt really as important to prove its real,its more important to prove its a fake,and prove the print run,and year of the pressing.The disc is just sitting there on the market,and its not going anywhere.
5.Peopel here in doubt,or feeling either way about this subject,are going to wonder untill its been "offically" confirmed.Your not a representive of Hudson or Care4Data.So you do not have the means,legal say or ability to do this.
This goes for anyone of you who say its a fake,and it also goes for me saying its real,which is why I say it could be either,and stand at that point of reason.I dont defend bootleggers either,as you just assumed.But I do support playing a game by any means given if the game is way out of print,released in a region other then the one you live in,and is not on cd-r.There is no market for it in the US for Hudson,or Germany for that matter,so why scorn anyone buying it.If your buying cd-r bootlegs,then your not buying any kind of product with any kind of quality.At least there are some bootleggers who take pride in their work,Ill give them that.If Sapphire press is a bootlegg run,its a damn good one,and its not something I could do.Till its proved to be either fake or real press,this conversation should be closed.Its a tired subject.
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Michael wins.
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When there's a simple and obvious answer (ie, "they're fake"), the burden of proof is on the person trying to state otherwise.
2.The money being made on ebay right now is not enough to recoupe on cost,unless the largest majority is sold for the maxium amount in the fastest period.Since there are still afew here and there on ebay,I doubt this level of sale has been reached.If it was bootlegged,then I feel sorry for the saps who spent the cash to have it done,they didnt make the money back.
If Hudson had really done a second pressing, then they lost a ton of money -- and lost it willingly. That's absurd. The original bootleggers already got their money back a long time ago. The forgeries being sold on eBay now are second, third, or fourth-hand. No one here is dumb enough to claim the guys selling stuff on eBay are the original bootleggers.
Anyways, they're fakes. I'm done arguing against outlandish hypothetical scenarios.
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A guy with 17 post and no facts to present says what I have stated is "outlandish hypothetical scenarios".Your attitude and manner sucks.I only asked for you to present some facts that you base your reasoning off of.Not my faulght you couldnt do this.All you offered is the yakuza getting together with a huge multi region pressing plant company on the European side of the world to make Sapphire,or that broke ass bootleggers somehow managed to do the same,and put forth the huge cash amount required to master,produce a nickle stamp,press in the thousands,then quality package down to the plastic strip,which is in fact not cheap to do the tear away strip seals,they tack on extra cost,then manufacture alot of Hudson sealed boxes to ship them in all over Japan from Germany,or England.Yea,your right,your explanation is much more rock solid then mine.Did you ever think it would be easier to just leak the game unslealed in used game stores,thus providing a quicker sale if that was the case?Hell man,even better,screw the yakuza,they are too busy leaving bullet trails at Squaresofts office trying to get involved in a major company,and selling guns,prostution,and smack,I bet it could have really been ex-execs from the now de-funct 3DFX graphics chip company,yea,trying to make a quick buck after the big buy out from Nvidia.No,wait,even better,it was probably Gorge Bush in a failed attempt to claim there is a major Sapphire shortage so that prices can rise and fall every week.Since we are going to involve the Yakuza,huge European Pressing plants that I somehow doubt would do a mass run bootleg release with their name stamped all over every disc ,somehow extremely rich and very clever bootleggers,of which we have never heard of untill now,and mass amounts of cash that could never have been made back by now at the going price,thus causing said bootleggers to have died of starvation,as I have checked ebay sales of this game for the past 5 years now ,and have not seen the required amount up for sale to make the money back as not that many have actually been sold over the years for the super high amount,nor have enough of these been sold in Japan Im sure at the high enough required amount to make the money back,I guess if we go by your system of reason and process of elimanation,we can do just about anything!!!! Im sure heavy Pc Engine collectors over their could tell the difference much better then we can,as Id say they are far more qualified,and could tell the difference between a second print or fake for that matter from the original.Word would hit the street too fast there among pc engine collectors and players,thus causing the high asking amount to cease.But if the Yakuza have aweb of fog over every Pc Engien colectors mind in Japan,then maybe they pulled it off for the past few years soemhow and sold almost everyone,or at least half of the supposed 2000-5000 required at over 300 us bucks.As Im sure this press plant didnt just do a small time 1000 disc press count.A knickle stamper can go to 10,000 presses before its no good,and becaus eof cost to do the stamper,they would not have done a 1000 press run,it would have been a waste,even if half the copies sold at 250-400 dollars each US wise,thats just not enough a profit margin.And if this is a bootleg,Like I said,it would have bene recognized pretty fast as so,and not sold for that amount.That would have had to be sneaky then,moving product slowly right?Well,sure,then by the time they are dead they will have paid the manufacture cost off.
At least you didnt use the Hamburgler in your scenero.
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Not only that but heck,why stop at Sapphire,when you could do Dracula X,or any of the other rare shooters?A few years back,Dracula X was at its peak,where as Sapphire was not,so it would have been wiser to do Dracula X.
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Not only that but heck,why stop at Sapphire,when you could do Dracula X,or any of the other rare shooters?A few years back,Dracula X was at its peak,where as Sapphire was not,so it would have been wiser to do Dracula X.
Exactly what I said.
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That paragraph was too long for me to read, so I didn't.
I actually did some checking around, because there was something that was really bugging me throughout this whole discussion... namely, about the supposedly prohibitive manufacturing prices. This bugged me even more because of how common bootleg GBA games are (which I figure should cost more to manufacture).
I found out that it should only cost about $1,300 to professionally press 1000 copies of the actual CD's with color artwork on the disc. Even doubling the price (to cover printing the color booklet and shrink-wrapping the cases), that's less than 3 grand. Now let's double that just to be fun.
Wow, six whole grand! If someone has an inside connection at the pressing plant, even cheaper.
So anyways, since it would actually be pretty cheap to press some nice-looking Sapphire discs, we can assume it was just one random guy. Or maybe him and a few buddies. So we don't really need to involve the Yakuza or other crime syndicates (although they are deeply involved in bootleg anime DVD production) -- it's safe to blame this on a group of 3 or 4 random people. Fifteen Sapphires sold at full price, the rest dumped on retailers at $20 each... even at the lowest expectation, that's a healthy profit. It's not hard to sell 15 fakes at full price on JAPANESE AUCTIONS. If the others were cheap enough, they'd be easy to sell even after people realize what's going on.
For other rarities, it would take 30 to 40 sold at full value on JAPANESE AUCTIONS to recoup the cost, which really shouldn't be hard, but it still makes a little bit more sense to pick Sapphire -- it's harder to detect (being a rare game in the first place, which Drac X is not) and especially good timing considering the sudden rise in demand (due to arcade cards flooding the market).
The only question left is this: why would Japanese bootleggers go through a European company? So maybe the bootleggers were European. Or maybe the bootleggers were just trying to cover their tracks by using a non-local pressing plant.
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Michael stated a reason why they would decide to use a European presser in the original thread I posted. I'm too lazy to copy and paste and I'm sure Michael will bring it up anyways.
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SO what is your source for the price quote for a data/audio master and a thousand presses?
Did you aks them if they are still able to press these types of disc?
Can you list a company and give contact info for this?
Id like to know,because the lowest quote I recieved from Care4Data for using the older mastering equipment and to do the smallest print run they offered was going to cost around 16,237.00 euros.I contacted them back when this discussion first started to find out if they still had the ability to press these types of disc,and the cost involved,which is why I know as much as I do now.I actually put the extra effort forth to do this kind of research.I gave all contact info for Care4Data also.In US bucks that is around $20.000.And this did not include a fully decked out complete disc with full packaging.
Since I dont know of any other cd presser in the world except maybe JVC,which I know for sure will not do older type data/audio cheap,and will laugh and scoff at you for asking,your info is bunk.
Also back in 2001 I had inquired to JVC for my aunt and uncle,who are musicians, about getting a music cd they did pressed and mastered so they could stop the cd-r crap and audio tape junk,and stop cutting wax records,cause taht blew,and if they could do cd+g and how much the cost would be,and I was given a even more expensive price quote then Care4Datas cheap one for Pc-Engine pressing.
You keep on forgetting also that to press Pc Engine/Turbo CD games you need older mastering equipment that is no longer in use by everyone else,and that by stupid luck either way Care4Data will still do them.You need proof of how costly and hard it is to obtain a Pc Engine cd game presser in the US? Email Mindrec.Im sure they can tell you all their woes.They ran out of pressers last I heard.Otherwise dont toss about average manufacture cost for standard cd disc.They dont apply here because you are requiring more custom work then the average press plant does anymore.Turbo/Pc Engine cd are not mastered the same way,and as anyone tech wise here knows are not read the same way.Its not as easy or as cheap as bootlegging Tekken 3 for PSX in Taiwan,or lets say making a music cd.Its not done using the same methods and equipment and software.NO ONE does them anymore.Same for Jauguar CD games.No one does those by the normal method either.Your not going to win this arguement,so let it go.You are not providing any real useful info in regards to this,and your mostly just spreading your ideas and opinions,and what little facts you have offered dont apply to the PC Engine scene,like Yakuza bootlegging anime,and average cd audio cost for a crap music cd to be pressed.
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I second the verdict. Michael wins.
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Michael does not win. This arguement just shows how people want to believe in magical things in life instead of the cold hard facts. The game is a f*cking fake that Hudson was not involved with in any way, DEAL WITH IT. Every point that the Rocker makes is glossed over and ignored in favor of outlandish bullshit claims that support that "second run" theory.
Seriously I dont see how in any way you could believe that Hudson would do a tiny 1000 copy second run of a game that was 6 years old and not advertise to any potential buyers. Do you guys actually think they had some employee in a YAHOO AUCTIONS division who sold them all for the company? Jesus. If they had actually done a second run of the game then f*cking distributors would have had them in stock and places like NCSX and shit would have been selling them like hotcakes.
Also, that mindrec example has f*ck ALL to do with anything. If there's money to be made from pirating something, then pirates will find a way to do. Just because some goofs in the US programming crappy asteroids clones can't find someone to press Turbo CDs doesn't mean some dedicated pirates couldn't do it easily.
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Wow,I didnt know you liked knocking one of only 2 groups still making Turbo Cd games,neither of which were all that bad for fun play.What have you released on a real pressed cd as of late Guts?Also what you and your dumass friend seem to ignore is the simple fact I dont care either way,that its all moot,because I dont like the game myself.What I really love is the fact you 2 keep getting the date wrong.It has been confirmed by a game store seller in the US already that this appeared in 99,not as of late,and yes,they did think it was a bootleg.I dont blame them.But as Im in no position to confirm or deny either way,I wont assume anything.And you 2 f*ckbeads cant produce simple facts on here to defend your reasons either way it goes.Nor did I state it was a 1000 press disc run.I only quoted what a 1000 disc press would cost a couple months ago from Care 4Data.That was the quote they gave me for doing old mastering and pressing type.They are one of maybe a few in the world that still do it,this I know for a fact.I know JVC still can also,but charges way way more.Seems I have done way more foot work then either of you on this subject,all you have done is resort to bashing everyone like litle school kids because no one agrees with you.Maybe if you chilled out and presented some solid facts that didnt involve major press plants,yakuza,and broke ass bootleggers,and didnt resort to bashing when ever someone didnt agree with your "opinion" maybe youd have someone agreeing with you here.Have you not been brite enough to notice that I do in some respects agree with you?It could very possibly be a fake.I believe the axe could swing either way.I cant prove its a fake,and I cant confirm its real,but I sure did present you with some facts leaning towards being real,and gave you information to use to find out on your own.Funny how you have not been able to do the same.What are you more worried about,winning a lame arguement,or locating more information?Im in it for the information side of things,but if given a chance,I will roll with ya.Esp. considering your bashing 2 others for just simply not agreeing with you,when you have given them no reason to in the first place.and with the manner you are acting now,your not helping your case.
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Folks, it's time to get real.
Emerald Rocker has presented the most likely -- and most persausive -- explanation concerning these copies of Sapphire.
If you aren't swayed by Rocker's argument(s), then there is another principle that is useful in situations like this:
When in doubt, err on the side of caution (or, in this case, "skepticism").
Sorry folks, but we MUST assume that these are bootlegged copies. Michael has offered creative theories, but they are groundless, especially when compared to the well-known strategies and practices of bootlegging.
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Someone did find Care 4 Data,and paid them alot,bootleggers or whoever.Was this not stated already?You guys are making me repeate this over and over again.
And Mindrec actually made a couple of real games for the system so far.Thats alot more then I can say for myself,and actually got someone to press them.I guess next your going to go on a Frozen Utopia bash?after all I did read somewhere they are doing a Netopia 3 right?Since your so against more of the same then your prob going to knock that too.And since your so f*cking smarter then MindRec,how many press plants can you name off here that will do the press style needed to get a new game out?Since you seem to be withholding some magical special only for your eyes list of cd pressing plants that charge super cheap,and can do old style glass masters and pressing,and all for under 2grand,do you think you can bestow upon us all this wonderful knowledge?
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I don't really see the reason to counterfeit some 10 year old game with such precision. I realize that some scammer could enter any collectors' market and entice those people with authentic looking "rare" stuff and make off with the cash. However, in this case, the accuracy of the packaging and seemingly thorough attention to detail would suggest, IMO, that there was a lot of effort to reproduce this so-called fake.. perhaps more effort than it was worth to scam the market.
Anyway, it'd be nice to have Sapphire selling at lower prices and I wouldn't mind snagging one of these questionable copies. If no one can prove it's fake, then it isn't.
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Untill Hudson says its a fake,its not.Hudson has the final say,not you Guts or anyone of us.
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I doubt that Hudson will ever say *anything*. They likely don't know, or don't even care.
This is undoubtably a fake. A good one, but certainly fake. I knew it when I ordered one. Most everyone else did. The likelyhood of Hudson reproducing a game for a niche market *in Europe* (where all of these seem to come from) is slim to none.
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My question is this then,have any of you tried to contact Hudson Japan concerning the matter?No one here,wether skeptical or sure of it or not,can say they are real or fake for 100 percent sure untill "Hudson" says one way or the other.Its their game,not ours.They are the creators,
and if you really cared to try to find out one way or the other,or at least how Hudson feels about these pressed disc floating about,why not try to send a email.Im sure if enough of you did,your most likly to get a response back.My friend never even opened either 2 of his copies,
so I never looked at the inside of them,Im just relying on the pics I have seen,and the package quality of his,but considering all my years in gaming,being in it in retail at a store where rare stuff came in daily,I never came across a bootlegg of anything done this well,which is why to me it could be either or.I will stick to that untill Stevek666,Guts,or whoever can get Hudson to say otherwise.
And if you could,this would be even better for the market,because if they are fakes,and you could properly publicly expose this by getting Hudson to confirm this,then the price of these on ebay will prob drop next to nill,where they should be,if indeed Hudson will declair them as fakes.
You just stating they are fakes isnt good enough for the vast majority of buyers and collectors out there.Most people are probably going to assume they are real untill it is confirmed by a reliable source that they infact are not.This source will need to be Hudson.
Also,most all of my pressing information is not theory.its all fact,and took alot of time to research.I in no way considered it a waste,because I get to slap it in there with the ld pressing information I gathered,which is really why I contacted Care4Data to begin with.I had wanted to know if they did at one time or still had the ability to do LD pressing,or the smaller ld technoligy,CD-Video,which is not to be confused with video-cd.
I usually dont ever go opening my mouth untill I get something information wise from someone first,a company,respected resource,and so on.I do not see any of you doing the same.You stated a arguement invloving the yakuza,a major pressing plant,and bootleggers,which Id like you to do this,show some more fakes on here of this level of quality,Id really like to see them.The above is a theory,and not known for 100 percent sure.What Id also like to know is why none of you have tried to contact Hudson over it to really find out?Also,these first started appearing in Japan in 99 I am told by some laseractive collectors I chat with,and back then when they did,Hudson was not confirming or dening them one way or the other.
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I doubt that Hudson will ever say *anything*. They likely don't know, or don't even care.
This is undoubtably a fake. A good one, but certainly fake. I knew it when I ordered one. Most everyone else did. The likelyhood of Hudson reproducing a game for a niche market *in Europe* (where all of these seem to come from) is slim to none.
Its funny you should say that,and my reply to it is this,Hudson would indeed do so if they no longer used,had running their own pressing equipment.
Also Laserdisc was a niche market,1 million owners compared to 16 million vcr owners,yet laserdisc were comonally manufactured in Eruopean pressing plants,and in Japan,even though we had full capability in the US to make them.Thi sis also the case with music cds.If you actually cared to start tracking your mint mark info down,you will find depending on what kind of music you listen to,that alot of your music cds will be pressed outside of the US,or in the US,depending on where you live,even though in about every region of the world there is a Pressing plant of some kind with the ability to at least do music cd and DVD 9.
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Also,these didnt appear in Europe first in 99.They only just started appearing in Europe this last year.Japan was the first known area of sale,and from what it seems the US is second.SO these Sapphires,real or not,were not created for the niche market of Europe,where the amount of owners with arcade cards are probably not that high in number.
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I still have to give the hand to Michael mainly because he has listed more facts than Rocker overall and with lots of good facts, even though Rocker's single fact was a very good one. The thing is, we can't believe if Hudson would do this ir not BUT we can't also just be ignorant and post "The game is a f*cking fake that Hudson was not involved with in any way, DEAL WITH IT." because we still don't have evidence proving that it's not related with Hudson in anyway or have the officially bootlegger(s) openly admit it.
I should also post I have a very open mind and have fairly strong belief in such things as aliens (yes in the way they are described among most abudctees, like with the "greys") and ghosts (My house is haunted and I actually believed I saw one once :P ). I'm not a psycho believer though, I make sure there are enough facts for me to believe in cases such as these because I do a lot of research on them, but I'm clearly not a skeptic because skeptics generally tend to be a$$holes and I still leave my mind very open.
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The only person arguing in favor of these being "second runs" is a guy who can't even put a space after his periods or sum his thoughts up in one post. Rocker is coming out on top in this arguement since his points actually make sense in the real world and not fantasy land where huge video games companies make teensy second prints of 6 year old games for miniscule profits and not tell anybody in the entire world.
The simplest explanation is usually always right (that these are pirated copies), theories like Mr NoSpaceAfteraPeriod's only exist in entertainment, not in reality. People have been watching too much X-Files and shit like that, they'll believe any hackneyed bullshit that comes along if it seems cool instead of looking at stuff realistically.
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Haven't been here in a while...can't believe this is still a topic of discussion. I can't fathom anyone believing these are anything other than bootlegs.
I bought one, its so obvious looking at it its not even funny.
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Rocker has said this already, but it bears repeating:
In the real world, we must assume that this is a bootleg.
The burden of proof rests upon those who insist that this isn't a bootleg.
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Here's a great question (or two) to ask yourself:
Do we have any concrete examples of official second (or "alternate" "throw-away") pressings using non-standard materials?
Of these, how many were done by Hudson Soft of Japan?
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The historical record provides overwhelming evidence that piracy -- not official pressings -- account for "curiousities" such as Sapphire.
This thread has gone from "hopeful wishing" to "utter absurdity" ... logic and reason require us to ASSUME that these are bootlegs, until proven otherwise. That is the most prudent course of action.
BONUS: The Turbo community dealt with piracy before (TurboList!), and they alerted folks about the bootleg to minimize the number of Turbo fans who would be ripped off.
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In the real world, we must assume that this is a bootleg.
of course we should assume this !
Besides this I wonder if there's a point to the discussion going on here for the past week ? I guess not...
About contacting Hudson. Of course I tried to contact them. Below is my attempt from 2001 (in which I forwarded the game to them). And I tried again in 2004 by email with about the same "interest" shown by them (which is none).
(http://pms.hazard-city.de/hudson_.jpg)
And concerning their availability in stores in Tokyo: in early august this year Trader and Medialand in Akihabara had these in stock. Trader only had this version (50.000yen used) and Medialand had both - actually on the same shelf (original used for 45.000, this version new for 60.000yen).
They simply don't care about it.
PS: I've gotten ahold of another (most obvious bootlegged) version of Sapphire. Maybe I'll post some images sometime soon.
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Thanks for the post Fudoh! This certainly adds more to the discussion! However even though I am a believer of your story and Michael's facts, I have to be a damn skeptic here and comment that the image of the letter you posted almost looks like it was faked. I don't really know what it is, I think it might have to do with how the text and images look like they were added to a scan of a old, somewhat worn paper used with a computer program like Photoshop. It could possibly be because there are lightness and darkness differences on the paper, but not quite with the text and the images , also the creasing on the paper doesn't seem to effect the text or pictures really. I'm not saying this is a fake, but I'm just bringing points up to how it could be. Hopefully I can take your word on this. Looks like we need the detectives to solve this by doing tests on that piece of paper to see how old it is and where it came from :lol: .
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I know it seems silly Fudoh,but can you do a larger scan of this letter?I understand some scanners and copiers will focus on the text and printed image and pick that up really good if the laser is great,and give a funny effect in the process not caring about creases,but in order to show this thing better it needs to be inlarged,maybe it can be on a link to your webpage if you have one or something so that we can get a closer look?I know its hard to get large size shoing here real well.Esp for XP users who can only go as large as 800-600.
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And maybe Ill give Guts period breaks too,maybe,and maybe Ill find religion.Well,n/m,thats doubtful.Seems not many had too hard a time reading any of my post anyway,seems your just doing a$$hole nitpicking to keep a arguement going,breaking from one arguement to another.
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Here's a larger version:
http://pms.hazard-city.de/hudson.jpg
The paper actually doesn't look very old, it's just a weird yellow tone which my scanner tries to eliminate in the first place...
Maybe it looks better in b/w...
http://pms.hazard-city.de/letter_top.jpg
Or like this:
http://pms.hazard-city.de/letter.jpg
lol, any particular photo you'd like ;) ? Maybe today's paper alongside with it ? (don't you dare....)
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Haven't been here in a while...can't believe this is still a topic of discussion. I can't fathom anyone believing these are anything other than bootlegs.
I bought one, its so obvious looking at it its not even funny.
Heh. I've been away for a month or two as well. Hard to believe that a topic I started *months* ago is still going on. :)
Hey. I'm just happy that I am able to play a game I'd likely not otherwise be able to play (downloading pirated copies with inferior lossy audio aside).
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Here's a larger version:
http://pms.hazard-city.de/hudson.jpg
The paper actually doesn't look very old, it's just a weird yellow tone which my scanner tries to eliminate in the first place...
Maybe it looks better in b/w...
http://pms.hazard-city.de/letter_top.jpg
Or like this:
http://pms.hazard-city.de/letter.jpg
lol, any particular photo you'd like ;) ? Maybe today's paper alongside with it ? (don't you dare....)
Wow. Very interesting!
Nice to see that you're still following this thread. By the way... I'm still very happy about my Sapphire purchase. :)
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Nice to see that you're still following this thread.
I actually wasn't, but somebody inquired about a game and mentioned that the thread was quite active, so I checked it again.
There are some people on the board with a lot a free-time and no hobbies I guess ;)
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I sent a email to Hudson Japan today,including the scan of the letter you supplied.Hopefully they will reply back and give comment on this whole thing,but if not its no real loss either way.
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The last pic looks pretty real to me.Im satisified,but Im sure others like Guts wont be.So maybe Ill get a email back from Hudson,and well see.
Thanks!
BTW I do have hobbies,laserdisc collecting,ranting on here,and being with my kids,and gaming.If I didnt have hobbies,I wouldnt rant on pcenginefx.
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Actually thinking about it,can you place the letter upright,and stack hucards around it ,and add some US soldiers posing with big stupid grins?
That would be great and probably prove to Guts its real.
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Are you retarded, literally? I didn't say anything about the authenticity of the letter, Keranu was the one saying it looked fake. Plus if it's real it proves that the Sapphires are fakes since Hudson said themselves they don't give a shit about old product and that means they wouldn't do a second run of an old as dirt game.
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You know its amazing how some people's buttons are easily pushed. What happened to men acting like gentlemen? Some men are slowly turning into sensitive little 817ches.
No insult intended to those that don't deserve it.
Who cares if its fake or not, as long as each owner is happy. It looks like some are only interested in swinging their "E-Penis" around here.....Literally, I mean all you have to do is look.
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To Guts,I never said you said the letter was fake,but considering on the letter it states that it also could have been real I assumed you would go right at tearing it apart.For that I had to poke fun at you,in some ways making light of the conversation at hand.
To MotherGunner,your right,I should'nt bash or make fun of guts or emerald blah blah.
I lowered myself to their standards when I did.Sometimes I do like to poke fun too,that I cant help but do,but also,Guts does act like a a$$hole jerk on alot of post,and I dont think Im the only one who notices this.
Anyway,sorry.
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Who cares if its fake or not, as long as each owner is happy. It looks like some are only interested in swinging their "E-Penis" around here.....Literally, I mean all you have to do is look.
Well, there are larger issues at stake here (i.e. how piracy a la Sapphire affects the Turbo community specifically and the gaming community in general).
Granted, this hasn't been the main thrust of the discussion, but it means that we should be thinking beyond "Is each owner is happy?" and more along the lines of "What provides the greatest good to the Turbo/gaming community, as a whole?"
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Gosh, I'm sorry for being of such a low standard. Since I'm such a cretin, I'd better start behaving like one.
Next time, since I'm such a low-standard fellow... instead of restraining myself and using logic/reason/debate, I'll just call retarded theories about companies doing stealth reprints of 6-year-old PC Engine games exactly what they are: "retarded".
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Dont forget to involve the yakuza in all of them.They would'nt be complete with out the yakuza.
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Yakuza reprinting Sapphire is more believable than Hudson.
By the way, a new thought occurred to me this morning. Let's suppose for a moment that it actually would cost the unrealistically high price of $20 grand to press 1000 Sapphire's. (That's the cost you provided.) Again, this is a rather small amount that could be paid for from one person's pocket, and a group of four could EASILY pay for it. (So don't say a word about "broke-ass bootleggers".) If each Sapphire disc was sold for a mere forty dollars, then that would be a total of $40 grand. In other words, $20 grand of profit. Since "real" Sapphire is so expensive, it would be easy to sell each one for $40, because most people wouldn't even care if they're fake or not at that price.
Really, for bootleggers, printing Sapphire is like printing money. It probably wasn't the Yakuza, but that sounds like the kind of win-win deal they'd be interested in. Whereas Hudson -- by their own admission -- isn't interested at all.
But what am I thinking -- it was crazy for me to even consider the possibility that the Yakuza could be funding illegal bootlegging activities in Japan.
Anyways, now that I've said that (I thought you weren't going to "lower yourself" to my standard?), I'm ditching this flame war in progress. So now you're free to insult reasonable people like GUTS if that makes you feel better, and I won't say another word about it!
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If that's the case where it turns out to be a group of bootleggers that made the Sapphire fake, then lets go hunting.
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Damn, people. Just chill out and enjoy a game of Sapphire. :)
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In the letter it states they could not find anything weird about it,long time Hudson employees couldnt.I like how you avoid that one completely,granted the letter is even real.I think it prob is,but Im kinda skeptical too,and I never said the game was real or fake,I just gave reasons why it could be real and not fake.You can go on any of these past post and you wont once see me say,"hey these things are real,and not fakes,because I know,because I know everything!"
I dont do it like that.
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Hello PC Engine love!
A colleague referred me to this discussion. Your interest in PC Engine is wonderful! Thank you!
I regret to inform you that Ginga Fukei Densetsu "Sapphire" was manufactured in 1995 only for PC Engine Duo. I was not directly involved with this title, but my brother Yuji told me that many titles in Hudson's back catalogue have been illegally duplicated [pirate copied, or as you say "bootleg" copied] !
Yuji is aware of illegal copied versions of:
Ginga Fukei Densetsu "Sapphire", The TV Show, Circus Lido, Patlabor, Mesopotamia, Blodia, et cetera.
Based on the photographs, Yuji is very certain that illegal copied games were sold under false pretenses.
I am sorry you pay for pirate copied video game. Currently, Hudson is focusing on current generation platforms and can not assist you.
Enjoy love PC Engine!
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Haha why would anyone want to pirate Blodia? Hilarious.
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Ha. I suspect that if Aaron were to check the IP, this one would match one of the other users. :)
Funny post though.
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Haha, pirated Blodia.
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Yea,I really dont buy that post for a sec.The broken english bits looked fake.
Sorry guys,you have to do better then this.
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Also,Blodia was a crappy hucard right?I think I had it and had to give it away as a freebee in one of my auctions.
I really dont see this one being bootlegged.It wasnt even popular.
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Why would any body, pirate Patlabor heck last i check it was a digital comic game.
Those are not popular to collect due to there language barrier :?:
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Yea really,alot of those games are easy to get,not rare at all.Blodia was the dead give away.But yea the rest are cheap games too,and have been for along time running.Nothing worth the time to fake.
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Here's a Blodia review...
http://www.honestgamers.com/systems/content.php?review_id=3496&console_id=24
This review makes the game sound bad. I'm surprised anyone would bother bootlegging Blodia.
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Alright, come on guys, lets take it easy, it's not that bad. At least the music was entertaining.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-PCE-Duo-R-SYSTEM-MINT-COMPLETE-IN-BOX-Sapphire_W0QQitemZ8194304912QQcategoryZ62054QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-PCE-Duo-R-SYSTEM-MINT-COMPLETE-IN-BOX-Sapphire_W0QQitemZ8194304912QQcategoryZ62054QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I see that rebel scum is at it again.
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holy sh*t I despise bullseye! this dude really irks me :(
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Jeez does Bullseye EVER learn?
I see that rebel scum is at it again.
Were you sort of quoting Star Wars here? :lol:
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Jeez does Bullseye EVER learn?
I see that rebel scum is at it again.
Were you sort of quoting Star Wars here? :lol:
pretty much :wink:
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Haha, if I was good at remembering the admiral's names and characters like them, I would have quoted it, but I wimped out and didn't want to get made fun of by other Star Wars fans!
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Wow, I can't believe anyone still has the slightest doubt about those counterfeit copies. Even that letter from Hudson pretty much proves it: It says: "Please understand that our PC Engine department has shut down a long time ago". That was in 2001. So much for the reprint theory, which was already disproven by the poor printing quality anyway.
[Did you even read my first post? For instance the part about the manual/inserts which were obviously made using an original copy as source since the counterfeiters had no access to the original source material.]
So the people at Hudson couldn't tell if it was was real or not? They simply had nothing left to compare the fake to.
Those who claim the counterfeits might not be counterfeits after all obviously belong to the "I want to believe" (X-Files trademark) faction who completely defy reason. Who am I to argue with you? Instead, I have an offer for you: Would you like to buy a valuably "development copy" of "Space Fantasy Zone" from me? They come on CD-R, but who knows, they might be the real thing. How about I send a CD-R to the original comapny who made Space Fantasy Zone first and ask them if this could possibly be an original prototype, would you then buy it from me?
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Maybe if you could get it pressed noob.Maybe then we would buy it.
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Actually, some scammer already pressed a bunch of "prototype" Space Fantasy Zone's and sealed them. That's probably what Ceph is referring to. I saw these fakes on Japanese auctions for about 30 thousand yen a year or two ago, which is about 29,999 yen more than they're worth.
At least, I think that's what happened. I'm a noob so maybe I dreamed it all in my head.
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Actually, some scammer already pressed a bunch of "prototype" Space Fantasy Zone's and sealed them. That's probably what Ceph is referring to. I saw these fakes on Japanese auctions for about 300 thousand yen a year or two ago, which is about 299,999 yen more than they're worth.
At least, I think that's what happened. I'm a noob so maybe I dreamed it all in my head.
Yes, and shortly thereafter a few of these popped up on ebay.fr and ebay.de if I recall correctly. Insanely priced, of course.
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Pressed or burned.They do make blank Silvertop disc cd-rs,long strategy,that can be labeled.Have any of you bought one to find out?Can anyone here provide pics of boths sides of the disc?
Very interested to see.
Also I find it funny that a noob only post on this one topic,like the fake Hudson guy,who worked for Hudson but had to use his brother for reference.This and the whole Patlabor and Blodia thing,lol,I still chuckle over that one.
Any noobs who post here look more like created alter egos then anything else.Thi swas a almost dead topic for the last couple weeks,then a noob post on it again,makes me wonder.
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Also in 2001 I did not expect Hudson to care about PcEngine.But back in 99 there could still have been slight interest,and this was the timeline those disc appeared,not 2k1.Alot of people in the Pcengine laseractive groups i have talked to have this copy,and picked it up in Japan,in late 99-to 2k.Remember games were pressed still in late 90ies,remember Dead "of" the Brain?
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Dead of the Brain 1&2 was advertised and marketed to retailers --- that's a big difference.
Listen, I'm not gonna get back on the Sapphire part, but the Space Fantasy Zone story is well-documented across the internet. Let's not even get into a pointless discussion of fake/real "prototype" on that one.
It's also a little silly to theorize that Ceph is an alternate account. He explained how he found this thread... the same way that Fudoh found the thread. That's all. Three times now (once with me several pages ago, twice with Ceph just recently) you've tried to dismiss an intelligent voice of reason as "noob" or "alternate account". You should stop doing that.
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I doubt they're fake accounts, it makes more sense that new people would stumble on this thread once in a while than for anybody here to start arguing again weeks after the thread has died.
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Dude, is that avatar image a caveman's fossilized dildo?
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You missed the whole point,as I dont question the fakeness of the Phantasy Zone proto. I want to know if the disc being sold were pressed disc,or cd-rs labeled and packaged. That is why I asked if anyone bought one and could provide pics of both sides. Read my post better.
And yea it is funny a noob would "stumble" upon this thread,and only post on it,and nowhere else.
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I guess I did miss the point, because I don't see the point in spending 30 thousand yen to see whether a fake was pressed or whether the fake was burned to CD-R.
Now back to the question at hand... GUTS, is that a fossilized dildo?
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I wish, it's just some dude who had the AWESOME idea to make a sand penis instead of the ol generic sand castle. Pure genius if you ask me.
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You dont see much of anything Emerald,you too busy gawking at the penis avatar.
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I see reason; that's better than some people.
Kind of unrelated, but here's a cool article on why Rodimus Prime kicks Optimus's elderly ass:
http://www.segabastard.com/features/rodvsop.html
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Ok, that's random. I still like Optimus better, though I'm deffinitly not a Rodimus hater. BTW, I'm a Transformer nut, down to G1 all the way up to Cybertron, & everything inbetween.
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Yeah Optimus 4 lyf, Rodimus was a pansy.
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Yea,and when the space dust took hold of Hotrod/Rodimus,who saved the day????
Optimus Prime baby!!!!
Back from the dead and better then ever,and in full blaring mono audio with the crappy"You got the Touch,you got the power!!!! YEAAA!!!" tune.
Optimus Prime cured everyone with the Matrix of Leadership, I dont remember Rodimus doing that?
Optimus gave his life for the Autobots,did Rodimus?
Optimus put his life at risk many times over,has Rodimus?
No. Rodimus copped out,and because of this we got stuck seeing Grimlock grow a brain and build the Technobots,or Star Screams ghost,(thank god for Chris Latas voice still being there) making a lame appearence here or there trying to get a body back.
O and lets not forget the lame ass appearence of Cobra Comander in the future,helping terrorist fight the Autobots. I dont think Rodimus even saved the day then.
I always wished someone like Blitzwing or Astrotrain would just stomp him into the ground.
That or Devastator would just rip him limb from limb and send his left overs,after being mashed and smashed into paste,back to the junk planet for the Junkieons,or whatever they were called,Weird Al wannabies,to try to fix.
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Rodimus was f*cking weak. Him and Mr.Ultra"I cant get the Matrix of Leadership to work"Magnus.
Screw both of them.
Optimus died saving the Autobots,twice.
UltraMagnus got fragged by Galvatron cause he was a dunce.
Not because he gave his life.
Rodimus was a pussy,who hid behind everyone.
When Ultra Magnus got snuffed,before being put back together,I laughed,thinking it was well deserved.
If Rodimus would have died,Id have cared less.
When Optimus died,mind you I was very young,I morned,cried even.
He meant the world.It totally sucked.I was so hurt as a little kid.I think takara,Hasbro and the animators should have been sued,because I remember alot of kids crying over this.It was total bullshit.
They should have never put us,as kids back then,trough all that emotional
trauma.
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I didn't cry. Why cry over an idiot like Optimus Prime who forgot in the very first episode that he could fly?
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He remembers when it counts,and besides,why fly when you can "roll out"?
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Actually, he didn't remember. Jazz had to pull him out of the water.
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He has flown in other episodes.
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You better be careful here,I think there are many more Optimus fans here then you think.Stop knocking Optimus.He saved us all from the horrible space dust.
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Actually, in G1, Autobots don't fly. They did for a few episodes in the 1st season, then later changed it, so that only Decepticons fly, with the occasional Autobot that flies via a jetpack, or they happen to have a flying alt mode, like Jetfire & Powerglide. The Dinobots do fly, though it's never explained why. They were made on earth, maybe didn't have true sparks...or maybe Prime's connection with the All Spark(inside of Vector Sigma) allowed them to fly. But, it's because of Autobots not being able to fly, that the Arielbots were such a big deal. Later, the only other time you ever see Autobots fly, is when in the middle of space, like when Blaster, Ramhorn, Rewind, Blurr, Wreck Gar, & Perceptor were flying to an asteroid where Quintessons were taking energon out of the past. I'd assume they were just able to project themselves thru space via some kind of thrusters. But they never have an flying ability in an atmosphere. Also, it's noted that all Autobots(that are Autobot of race, not faction) come from the worker race built by the Quintessons, with the Decepticons(Decepticon by race, not faction) coming from the warriors, which had natural flight ability.
Also, it wasn't space dust, it was the hate plague. Here's info on that: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/6563/hateplague.html
Ultra Magnus never claimed to be a leader, he didn't even want to be a leader. He told Optimus that he's just a soldier, & he proved that, by getting blown up, relying too much on the matrix. As just a soldier, he thought it was the darkest hour, though, far from it. BTW, originally, Magnus was going to be an upgrade for Optimus, rather then a new character, but, they axed that. I forget if anyone explained their reasoning for killing Optimus & countless other Autobots & Decepticons. I'd assume just to have no reason to continue to sell those respective toys, & push the new one.
Also, I'll note that Rodimus was a brand new leader, he had ALOT of learning to do, which I thought was cool. Optimus had been the leader for millions of years, with Rodimus for a few years. I'm sure Orion Pax/Optimus Prime had plenty to learn back in the day, especially since Megatron was already leading the Decepticons quite awhile before Optimus Prime came to be(noted in War Dawn).
However, I cried when Optimus died, I was 10 years old, I still get teary eyed to this day when I see that seen, and I'm 29. I also get emotional watching Code of Hero, when Dinobot sacrifices his life, to save the (proto)humans & the Autobots fate, even though he was a descendant of Decepticons, he chose the honorable path.
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It always blows my mind when people try to think up reasons for why stuff didn't make sense in Transformers (like where Optimus's trailer goes when he transforms, I remember reading some ULTRA nerd's theory on "dimensional pockets" about that). The cartoon had gaping plot holes and some of the most retarded writing ever, but it still ruled when I was a kid. Now it's pretty much unwatchable.
The movie on the other hand is the best movie of all time. Period.
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Good you know the vast details better then me,I dont keep all that locked in memory.
And the toon,as it was,was a tv ad for the toys for the US.It was created for the US first,to market the toyline,which was actually a toyline by Takara originally.They eventually pushed the stuff in Japan.I have alot fo the episodes we didnt get after our g1 over here ended.
The pretender stuff they got episode wise was pretty cool.Japan won in the end toon wise.
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Actually, Transformers in Japan was originally comprised of 2 lines, Microman(consisting of toys like Megatron, Reflector, Soundwave, & other household-esque items) & Diaclone(consisting of cars/trucks like Optimus, Ultra Magnus, Sideswipe, etc).
I actually like the whole pocket dimension thing, it's kind of neat, if you want to get technical, which I tend to do. Even still, we laugh we when see the trailer disapear, it's hilarious! I actually still love the cartoon, even with all the millions of flubs. It's one the best cartoons from the 80's, & I enjoy it more the all the current Transformer cartoons, with the exception of Beast Wars, which near the end of Season 1 got REALLY good.
The current shows are made in Japan, with the latest made by Gonzo. But Takara isn't going to have a main TF line for awhile, & Hasbro is looking to bring the shows back to the US, which will be a good move, IMHO. Ofcoarse, the live action movie comes out in 07, which will/should raise the TF's status to that of Star Wars & Star Trek.
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Arg,a live action movie?????
No way,god I hope not.
Yea I used to have the Walter P.38 original Megatron that was brown before the Transformer release.He didnt have the silencer or anything.Got it off ebay way long ago,and sold it for good amount locally here.I think the release date for it was 78-79.basically looked the same except for the color.Im still impressed with the Megatron toy,any release,as the gun is very close to the real thing detail wise.
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Yeah, I have the re-issue of Megs, which they were only able to re-release in Japan, due to the US having higher standards for toy guns.
When it comes to the movie, I think it's going to rock. The robots will be CGI, with the humans & surroundings being live action. And it's being written & co produced by Transformer fans, with Steven Speilberg as Executive Producer. They're still working out the kinks, & they listen to the fans, which is great. Don Murphy & others involved in the project talk with fans via Don's message board, so with all the feedback they get from fans, the less likely it's going to suck!
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I worry none the less.If it strays from the old stories,I wont care about it.I liek the old G1. I dont care to see Megatron as a G2 suck ugly green tank.
I want to see everyone as they were.Not just that,but Im tired of doing the 2 year wait thing,getting super hyped for 2 years,and being depressed after finally seeing a flik.
Voice wise,it would be hard to get the old talent together too,and Im used to those voices.Chris Latta i sdead,has been for a couple years now I think,so who ever does StarScream would have to be new,and I dont think they could do the same quality.Ill wait,forget for that matter,and if the movie gets done,comes out,we will see then if its any good.Till then I wont hold my breath.
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Binaltech/Alternators rock. Although I have my reservations for some of the chars.
Wheeljack is my fav from that line so far. For some reason he just looks badass. Even though Grimlock is the same mold, he doesn't look as stone cold as Wheeljack.
Maybe I should break out TF:TM soundtrack again. :)
I video capped my JPN re-release LD and have it on my HD right now. 19GB of TF goodness. haha!
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I worry none the less.If it strays from the old stories,I wont care about it.I liek the old G1. I dont care to see Megatron as a G2 suck ugly green tank.
I want to see everyone as they were.Not just that,but Im tired of doing the 2 year wait thing,getting super hyped for 2 years,and being depressed after finally seeing a flik.
Voice wise,it would be hard to get the old talent together too,and Im used to those voices.Chris Latta i sdead,has been for a couple years now I think,so who ever does StarScream would have to be new,and I dont think they could do the same quality.Ill wait,forget for that matter,and if the movie gets done,comes out,we will see then if its any good.Till then I wont hold my breath.
I know what you mean. I know that it will be a redux of G1, & Megs will be a tank, though I doubt he'll be green. I'm 100% he'll be his G1 colors. It's sounding like Soundwave will be a helicoptor maybe, but either way, he'll have his Casseticons for sure. There's still a chance that they'll make him a tape player or something, but, sometimes things have to be changed for the practicality of todays' world. I say make him an MP3 player with memory sticks or something like that. We'll see. Arcee is supposed to be a part of the Autobot cast, but, there's been an uproar of sorts about her being in it, so, they might just change that. I think Shockwave is a part of the con lineup, not sure what they're going to do him as.
Actually though, the toy line that comes after Cybertron, might be interesting to you. Megs is gonna be a gun, & apparently, though not real looking, looks pretty badass from what I hear. The other one that has been seen, is Starscream as an F15 I believe, which he is supposed to look pretty sweet as well.
As for the voices, they REALLY want to get the original voices! But that doesn't mean they can. Like you said, Chris is dead. Though it might be possible for the guy who did Terrasaur to imitate his voice. Apparently, he was friends with Chris, & taught him how to do the voice. He played as Starscream taking over Waspinator in Beast Wars, did an ok job, but that was 10 years ok, maybe he's improved by then! Also, Scatman Crothers, who did Jazz, is dead. And I believe Jazz is one of the Autobots slated for this movie. I'd say the 2 most likely candidates to actually be used in this movie, are Peter Cullen(he was G1 Optimus & Ironhide) & Frank Weller(he was G1 Megs, Soundwave, Galvatron, Wheelie, & a bunch of others). We'll just have to wait & see. I'm keeping my hopes semi high, mainly cuz I know the producers are listening, & I also know they can't just do a straight rip of the exact same G1 story.
Yeah, the Alt's rock, I have all of the ones released so far including Prowl. The next wave includes Sunstreaker & Skids. I'm a little bummed about Skids, since they included flames on the sides of the car, but, oh well, I'll live.
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What res did you choose to capture the LD in?Cripes thats alot of space used up.I cant believe it got that high.What player did you use also,as I was wondering,and what capture card.I was thinking maybe 12 gigs tops,past 15 is pretty big for one LD both sides captured.Depending on the setup I bet the transfer looks wonderful from the sound of it,prob much betterthen the original dvd US release yeilded.
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DVD just does not look like film.I hate DVD with a passion.
If I want artifacts Ill do a divx rip of a LD.
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I see reason; that's better than some people.
Kind of unrelated, but here's a cool article on why Rodimus Prime kicks Optimus's elderly ass:
http://www.segabastard.com/features/rodvsop.html
Oh man, I forgot about this silly trash that Nick wrote. I think I inspired him to write it, because we were discussing cartoons in general, and I mentioned that Grimlok (sp?) was annoying nine times out of ten and that Rodimus had NUTHIN' on good ole Optimus.
Optimus = John Wayne
Rodimus = Wayne Newton
Rodimus, as a character, has some neat attributes and qualities, but he just isn't in the same league as Optimus.
You and Nick have no respect for your elders :)
For fans of 21 Jump Street (top 30 best tv theme songs of all time, by the way):
Rodimus was to Optimus as Richard Grieco was to Johnny Depp
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It's funny you mention John Wayne, as that's who Peter Cullen modeled his character after!
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I got to admit though,that little peice he wrote had me laughing my ass off.It was pretty distorted,but funny as hell.I just kept laughing and laughing.It also proved my point about what I said about Rodimus copping out.He even admits Rodimus used the Dinobots all the time,and was quick to hand the Matrix over.And actually,I think the darkest hour was when the space spores/red dust crap was driving everyone mad,all over the universe.And who saved the day,Optimus Prime.
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how about closing this thread since it turned into shit.
or open a seperate transformer-thread?
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Does it matter,we turned this thread to shit long before the Transformers subject came to light.
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Haha that's like the 30th guy who has popped in for a one post "please close this thread or else I'm going to start crying!".
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Yea really,what does it matter what we are talking about here,at least we are talking about stuff we care about.If he doesnt like it,he can always go elsewhere???
I kno wit is off the subject,but crap man,cant let anyone get away with knocking Optimus,saying Rodimus was better.
Thats like saying Robocop 3 was better then 1 or 2.
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TODAY's NEWS: I was at library with my daughter today (a cute librarian reads stories for the kids on tuesdays and wednesdays) and what do I see on the "Just Arrived" table? TRANSFORMERS: The Ultimate Guide. Hardcover. Gorgeous. I don't feel bad, the kids are too young to remember Transformers :). I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but man, it looks great.
Haha that's like the 30th guy who has popped in for a one post "please close this thread or else I'm going to start crying!".
hahahahahahhaa. seriously.
Yea really,what does it matter what we are talking about here,at least we are talking about stuff we care about.If he doesnt like it,he can always go elsewhere???
I kno wit is off the subject,but crap man,cant let anyone get away with knocking Optimus,saying Rodimus was better.
Thats like saying Robocop 3 was better then 1 or 2.
Robocop 1 is one of my faves. Excellent. I was at a Presbyterian Youth Group when I saw R1 and we nearly crapped our pants (my friend's dad was/is a minister, and the Church was one of the few VCRs we had access to). I don't know if I mentioned it here, but my friend and I saw the most twisted movies with the Youth Group (Last House on the Left, Serpent and the Rainbow, etc.) The advisor let my friend pick the films and we'd occasionally get a "bad" film by "accident". The advisor was kool and always said, "Don't let it happen again." Anyway, I avoided the Robocop sequels until a just month(?) ago when R2 or R3 was on TV (w/ commercials). There was a drug called "Nuke" and a little kid was evil drug pusher.... it was amusing, for sure, but it was trash next to the original. I'll rent it, to see it properly, but I can't even believe the series veered off into a cesspool. R1 had great potential for one sequel, at least (think Alien --> Aliens, not that R1 is as good as Alien, but it's up there, IMO).
Are we off-topic again? Don't worry, I can steer us back:
So, this Robocop sequel I saw has this AWESOME scene that took place in an arcade. The arcade was portrayed as a hangout for derelicts and losers and gangsters (I'm not sure if this film came out before the Lieberman anti-Night Trap crusade, but it sure fits the moral panic of the times).
Anyway, I've mentioned elsewhere that I loved Data East's Robocop game. It was easy, I could 1 CC it. Well, naturally, all of the arcade cabs featured in this scene are Data East games! I wish I could remember some of the titles, but my memory fails me at the moment. Being the nerd that I am, I actually ran up to the TV screen to get a better look at the arcade cabs (they were being smashed and thrown around)... it sucks being senile. Serioulsy. I need some gingko biloba (sp?), stat.
EDIT: Bad Dudes was definitely one of the games! Maybe Cabal? Probably a Robocop cab...
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I have the Ultimate Guide! It's written by Simon Furman, who pretty much wrote all the best of the TF comics back then. He also helped with a few episodes of Beast Wars, & has been HEAVILY involved in almost all the current Transformer comics. Including the upcoming Beast Wars comic that comes out next year, which I personally can't wait for, since it'll tie it in more with G1. If no one here knows, Beast Wars, is in the future of G1, as is Beast Machines.....though, Beast Machines, most fans like to look at it, as either a bad dream that Optimus had, or an alternate future, with all the techno organic stuff.
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Haha Robocop 2 was awesome I thought, not as good as the first but a damn cool movie. I loved the arcade scene, I did the exact same thing you did (get closer and try to figure out what games were being smashed), I remember my roommate at the time was all "f*ck you are such a nerd dude!".
I never bothered to see part 3 since it was PG-13 AND had ninjas in it, I bet Keranu would love it though.
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Haha Robocop 2 was awesome I thought, not as good as the first but a damn cool movie. I loved the arcade scene, I did the exact same thing you did (get closer and try to figure out what games were being smashed), I remember my roommate at the time was all "f*ck you are such a nerd dude!".
I never bothered to see part 3 since it was PG-13 AND had ninjas in it, I bet Keranu would love it though.
Oh yeah, I said R2 was totally entertaining... it just isn't a bonafide top 10 movie like R1, IMO.
So I was watching R2? Damn, R2 must be a masterpiece compared to R3. Why the hell are ninjas in it? Sounds like the TNMT turtles movie with Vanilla Ice in it: corny!
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Yeah you saw part 2, I've never seen part 3 but I remember Robocop with a jet pack fighting a ninja in the trailer, it was horrible looking (though it might be worth watching now though just for cheese factor). It's like they finally realized that kids made up 3/4 of the people who loved Robocop and were making a movie for them, but it backfired because kids didn't want a pussy PG-13 movie, half the fun of watching Robocop was seeing all that R rated violence you weren't supposed to be watching.
I'd say Paul Verhoeven is one of my favorite directors, he just has so many classics. Robocop, Total Recall, Starship Troopers, Basic Instinct, etc. I've never seen The Fourth Man but I hear it's awesome too, I need to rent it.
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Yeah you saw part 2, I've never seen part 3 but I remember Robocop with a jet pack fighting a ninja in the trailer, it was horrible looking (though it might be worth watching now though just for cheese factor). It's like they finally realized that kids made up 3/4 of the people who loved Robocop and were making a movie for them, but it backfired because kids didn't want a pussy PG-13 movie, half the fun of watching Robocop was seeing all that R rated violence you weren't supposed to be watching.
I'd say Paul Verhoeven is one of my favorite directors, he just has so many classics. Robocop, Total Recall, Starship Troopers, Basic Instinct, etc. I've never seen The Fourth Man but I hear it's awesome too, I need to rent it.
Paul Verhoeven is indeed the man. I actually have lots of fun watching SHOWGIRLS, so I even like his flops.
I saw one of his really early movies... I think it was called "Soldier of Orange" or something like that. Rutger Hauer was in it. It was really kool and it was filmed in Europe. This was before Verhoeven went Hollywood, if I recall correctly. I'd say it's worth checking out. It's not a Hollywood film... but it's great. Here's a gauge: if you liked Das Boot (great movie!), then I think you'll like this movie. No, they don't have anything to do with one another.... but the gritty drama comes through in both. No glam. No super-polished glossiness.
Tangent: So I was at an ASPCA charity event in LA a year or two ago (hey, there was a fashion show with scantily-clad cuties -- I was sitting right next to the runway and saw EVERYTHING up close :) ). Anyway, to raise money they have a "silent auction" with items that were donated. Naturally, the film studios didn't want to donate any quality films, just the stuff they can't sell, so there was a beautiful SHOWGIRLS DVD boxset. I was the only bidder for the entire day. $10. YAY!
But then some dude came in at the last minute and upped the bid. I circled round the room and upped my bid... right behind his back!
Of course, he noticed my new bid, and was looking around. I tried to be covert, but I'm sure he knew it was me. So, there we were, with a few minutes left, both of us lusting for SHOWGIRLS.
I had to circle the room once more and up his bid yet again... he relented and I got the box set for $20.
Hey, the money was going to a good cause.
check out the silly bonus items in the boxset (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00020X88O/qid=1130356490/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-5317527-1319307?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846#product-details). I've never used this stuff, though I'll probably have fun downing shots of soymilk with the glasses. :)
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Oh man, the first Robocop movie IS THE SHITZA! God damn I love it!
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Wow,alot passed since I mettioned Robocop.
Well, here we go:
1.I have both cuts of RoboCop on laserdisc.I have the normal one,and the Criterian CAV edition.My friend still wonders why I keep the full screen normal cut,my reply:"Its f*cking Robocop 1,you cant buy that for a dollar!"
2.I have Robocop 2 on laserdisc also.The movie script was done by Frank Miller.Most of the offbeat humor and mood from part 1 was maintained,which anyone who has posted here will confirm Im sure.
3.If you pay close attiention to some of the Prime Directives in Robocop 2 you will see one of them that says something about avoiding Orion Board Meetings as a prime directive.There were even funnier ones that you were not supposed to notice,but you need either the dvd or a LD player with screen pause feature memory for CLV disc to see them.
4.Robocop 3 just plain sucked ass,along with the TV show,and the new movies made in Canada. The ninjas in 3,I mean come on,in one of the scenes they leap off the floor and bounce around.The "concrete" floor bounces.It was so badly/poorly done.Robert Burke played Robocop,another poor choice.He was ok in Thinner,but thats another story.
5.Robocop 2 arcade game is kinda cool too.Its not perfect,but still violent,and you get to crush a guy in a truck with Robos bare hands.I'll buy that for a dollar!
6.Robocop rocks on Laserdisc more then on dvd.The sound fx that use deep bass stand out way stronger then the dvd cuts.
7.Cool warped movies:1.Naked Lunch 2.VideoDrome 3.Hardware 4.Tetsuo The Iron Man 5.Dellamorte Dellamore AKA Cemetary Man 6.Hidden.
8.Soldier of Orange was wonderful.Great WW2 flik,esp for its time.
9.I loved Showgirls too!!! It was great to see Kyle Maclachlan in something other then a David Lynch project.
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Cemetary Man was f*cking awesome, I had the hugest boner for that chick that was in it for ages (can't remember her name now, but she was ULTRA hot).
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I'll have to see Cemetary Man if you two liked it so much :)
I like VideoDrome a lot more than Naked Lunch. My friend read the book and was all into Ginsburg or whoever it was that wrote Naked Lunch. Then he got the movie as soon as it was on video.
The funny thing is, I wouldn't have finished watching Naked Lunch if it weren't for the fact that my friend was giving me all the biographical / historical background on the dude who wrote it for the longest time. That's when I was a kid, I'd have to see it again to see if I feel the same way.
The same thing happened with the Ed Wood movie. Same friend got me to see all of Wood's movies and read some bios on him. I was psyched to see the Burton (?) film. Man, that movie was lame. If it weren't for all the biographical / historical info that I learned prior to seeing the movie, then I don't think I'd have finished watching it.
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I liked Ed Wood.I own it on laserdisc.Ed Wood was infact the essense of the movies he made.And it captured the timeline really well.
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Ha I liked Ed Wood, but mainly cause I'm a huge Depp fan. As a movie it was ok, without Depp I probably wouldn't have liked it even though it was Burton movie (who I usually love minus Planet of the Apes, ugh).
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I like VideoDrome a lot more than Naked Lunch. My friend read the book and was all into Ginsburg or whoever it was that wrote Naked Lunch.
lol WILLIAM S BURROUGHS :shock: :shock:
he's an amazing writer. sorry this just made me laugh.
his books are great and he did some interesting work with popular musicians (peter hook and kurt cobain come to mind)
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I like VideoDrome a lot more than Naked Lunch. My friend read the book and was all into Ginsburg or whoever it was that wrote Naked Lunch.
lol WILLIAM S BURROUGHS :shock: :shock:
he's an amazing writer. sorry this just made me laugh.
his books are great and he did some interesting work with popular musicians (peter hook and kurt cobain come to mind)
hahahahaha. Well, all those folks are a blur to me now. Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs... they all worked together and helped each other. Kerouac and Ginsberg helped edit and revise bits and pieces of Ginsberg's stuff into what ultimately became Naked Lunch... so they deserve some credit too :). I was more into Kurt Vonnegut's stuff at the time, personally.
I liked Ed Wood.I own it on laserdisc.Ed Wood was infact the essense of the movies he made.And it captured the timeline really well.
Man, this movie just didn't do it for me. I often find documentaries on famous folks to be far more fascinating than dramatizations, and Ed Wood is a perfect example of this, for me. 9 times out of 10, I can't stand dramatizations... they just seem so hokey and don't do justice to their inspiration. Exceptions: Mommy Dearest, some made-for-tv movie on Leona Helmsly (sp?) I saw years ago...
Ha I liked Ed Wood, but mainly cause I'm a huge Depp fan. As a movie it was ok, without Depp I probably wouldn't have liked it even though it was Burton movie (who I usually love minus Planet of the Apes, ugh).
Oh man, Burton did that Apes movie? I love Depp. I'll watch a film just for him, so I know what you're talking about. Except some horrible movie about in which he was an astronaut who came back to earth "different" (an alien invader?) -- and his wife is pregnant now. The concept is great (from an old Twilight Zone that has been recycled in at least one movie from the 70's)... but I've avoided the film.
EDIT: Astronaut's Wife? Something like that.
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I actually REALLY liked Planet of the Apes, I before that, I HATED Marky Mark, just because he was a wack rapper, & would show off his muscles & crap like that. But I thought he was alright in it. I'm still waiting for the sequal, which'll never come I suppose :cry:
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Yea,Planet of the Apes was ok,but man I hate Markey Mark and his funk bunch acting.I loved that movie he was in where he was a psycho,and he does this awesome flip out of a window and gets killed.I often wish this would really happen to him for real,but I know its just hoping against hope.
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I used to call them Farky Fark & the Munkey Bunch. Blech :P
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I have figured it out now,the true origin of this Sapphire! ! !
Call it a wild hunch,but I bet its real origin begins with Chris Ray and Dion Dakis the "Big Tymers".
What prob happened is after getting their asses bitch slapped around the NeoGeo world for being bootleggers of the worst kind,they moved out of the country,and started bootlegging oops,I meant "re-releasing" Blodia,Patlabor,and other games for the Pc Engine.Since they were new to the Pc Engine world,they didnt know nobody played Blodia and others of equally suckyness.Upon being informed of this by bad sales in Thailand,and China,they came across a copy of Sapphire,and because it reminded them so much of Blazing Star,they decided to do another "official" release like they did with Zupapa
and KOF 2000,and in the same manner decide to offer "correct" colored booklets,a real obi spine with "correct" colors,and "corect" Arcade symbol with out the silly dot pattern.They prob got "exclusive" rights to the game from Hudson,for European release,which would explain the appearence in Germany.
Where are they now you ask? ? ?
Prob doing all the packaging jobs and shipping for Bullseye Video Games,which would explain why you guys didnt get your stuff.
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You never know....
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ha ha ha ha
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I perfer the original Planet of the Apes then the remake :P
Get your hands of,off me! You god damn dirty apes!
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I Purchased Sapphire!
For real. From Mindrec.
I couldn't pass up a deal that good and its not much more than I was paying for PC Engine games back in the day($230 for SFIICE + Kisado, $150 for Dracula X).
I just hope that it didn't sell within the last day and a half since I heard back from BT about it.
It looks like I'll probably get to buy a Neo Geo cabinet within the next few days as well. :D
I still want to get one of these "reprints" to play though.
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How long ago was 'back in the day'?! I only paid $80 COD for Dracula X back in '93.
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I Purchased Sapphire!
For real. From Mindrec.
I couldn't pass up a deal that good and its not much more than I was paying for PC Engine games back in the day($230 for SFIICE + Kisado, $150 for Dracula X).
I just hope that it didn't sell within the last day and a half since I heard back from BT about it.
It looks like I'll probably get to buy a Neo Geo cabinet within the next few days as well. :D
I still want to get one of these "reprints" to play though.
Wasn't Mindrec only selling Sapphire for like $200? I remember seeing it and thinking how good of a deal it was, but I had to skip.
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man, i was really hoping this thread would never be brought up again, but...
Congrats on your Sapphire purchase Black_tiger!
If you're looking for one of those care4data bootlegs they seem to be getting mixed into the rest of the flea-Bay auctions and the temporary price drop they created in the Sapphire market is starting to disappear.
good luck.
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How long ago was 'back in the day'?! I only paid $80 COD for Dracula X back in '93.
It was the same year it came out.
Back then there weren't many Canadian friendly importers and beggers can't be choosers.
I don't remember if that particular game was from the place I'd order from in Toronto or Japan Video Games. If it was Canadian, it'd be the equivelant of $100 U.S.
I know that I had to wait months to get ahold of one since they were "hard to stock due to popularity".
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man, i was really hoping this thread would never be brought up again, but...
Congrats on your Sapphire purchase Black_tiger!
If you're looking for one of those care4data bootlegs they seem to be getting mixed into the rest of the flea-Bay auctions and the temporary price drop they created in the Sapphire market is starting to disappear.
good luck.
Thats the real reason I bought this, because you won't be able to buy a legit copy anymore unless the seller knows what the bootleg looks like.
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I Purchased Sapphire!
For real. From Mindrec.
I couldn't pass up a deal that good and its not much more than I was paying for PC Engine games back in the day($230 for SFIICE + Kisado, $150 for Dracula X).
I just hope that it didn't sell within the last day and a half since I heard back from BT about it.
It looks like I'll probably get to buy a Neo Geo cabinet within the next few days as well. :D
I still want to get one of these "reprints" to play though.
Wasn't Mindrec only selling Sapphire for like $200? I remember seeing it and thinking how good of a deal it was, but I had to skip.
It was $250. I would've bought it right away, but I'm coming off of a crazy shopping spree that I tell myself, week after week, is finally over.
I first found out about the Sapphire at Mindrec the day after I bought $165 worth of goods from a japanese seller, a boxed wireless PCE set and a bunch of other stuff.
Anyways, the good news is that I just sold my Wrestle War arcade tonight for almost what it'll cost me for a Neo Geo cabinet with 2 games.
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$250 is still great ;D .
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$250 is still great ;D .
If I can get ahold of one of those bootlegs, I'm going to put up a page with quality scans of each highlighting the differences.
Until I do get one or the collector's price comes down, I'll still be playing my cdr copy in the meantime.
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man, i was really hoping this thread would never be brought up again, but...
Congrats on your Sapphire purchase Black_tiger!
If you're looking for one of those care4data bootlegs they seem to be getting mixed into the rest of the flea-Bay auctions and the temporary price drop they created in the Sapphire market is starting to disappear.
good luck.
Thats the real reason I bought this, because you won't be able to buy a legit copy anymore unless the seller knows what the bootleg looks like.
Yep, i don't think you'd ever be able to tell for sure by looking at a photo on ebay as the color difference on the cover is pretty slight. what i would recommend would be asking a prospective seller to send you a scanned picture of the game disc. the inner ring of the bootlegs is pretty large and should to easy to distinguish, even from an online photo.
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I just bought a sealed bootleg and hopefully it'll be here in about a week.
I've also received the real Sapphire and even without seeing the bootleg I can say that its instantly obvious when you're looking at the real deal in person.
As soon as I get the bootleg, I'll start scanning them in and put the comparison on a web page.
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Thread necromancy powers, activate! :-"
So I've got a bootleg sapphire. I just played it for the first time (arcade card arrived!) and it is indeed awesome.
But I'm slightly confused on how to play it.
The attract mode shows the players attacking stuff with their options. This seems to have something to do with the select button, but the options do odd things when I try it. How exactly do you control them?
Also, what are the differences between the fighters? the weapons seem to be interchangeable, so is the only difference what you start with? or am I missing something?
Anyway, great game from what I've played so far. Hooray for bootlegers, 'cuz the more people who get to play this, the better :)
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I always use the same ship so I can't say with 100% certainty, but I think the ships all have their own "main" weapon which differ in strength. Also, every ship has a different maneuvering speed (this I'm sure of). I always use the fastest ship which in turn, I believe, has the weakest weapon.
BTW, you should have started a new thread.
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The attract mode shows the players attacking stuff with their options. This seems to have something to do with the select button, but the options do odd things when I try it. How exactly do you control them?
Cease firing to 'charge' your options, and then let 'em loose by pressing the fire button. As for the difference between ships, I haven't noticed much difference in fire power, but their speed varies quite a bit.
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Also, since this was Hudson made-and-released, why doesn't it have a vol. number?
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Because it's not a cartridge?
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oh, I thought all Hudson releases had vol. numbers, not just HuCards... #-o