PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: JapanTokei on April 27, 2010, 03:47:21 AM
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This is definitely an interesting phenomenom I've observed over my gaming career, which started with the Famicom back in 1984...
I moved to the States during 1990 and I bought a TG-16, fully knowing its the US version of the PCE. Knowing PCE's awesome selection of games, I actually dreaded seeing the TG-16 get its rear handed to it on a plate by SEGA Genesis... it pained me as a TG-16 owner... Later on I bought the TG-16 CD unit and started getting into import games, which made life better as I was able to show off Gate of Thunder to my friends in school about 1 year before they brought the Duo over to the States :mrgreen:
I sold off all my TG-16 stuff in 1997/1998ish, and recall during then the US counterparts of TG-16 stuff was worth very little on the secondary market. This seemed to make sense given the Hucards NEC Americas chose to bring over were really crap (Yo Bro! ? Timeball? Sonic Spike Volleyball? etc..)
Well I got back into PC Engine gaming recently and started buying up stuff in Japan during business trips there. I am blown away on how well designed the original CD-Interface unit is, how compact and awesome it is given it came out in 1988! Then a question hit me... what has happened the last 10 years+ that suddenly made US-version of TG-16 / Duo hardware so much more desirable?
I notice the US version hardwares; i.e. TG-16 units, and Turbo Duo, command much more prices these days on Ebay... But why? Very few US-exclusive Hucards are good ... Magical Chase is the one that comes to mind with special pluses over PCE versions. Also sure, you can play good games in English like Cadash and Dungeon Explorer, but the US-CD rom games are compatible with JP hardware, so why would people shell out more for TurboDuos? I saw some dude's TurboDuo set go for over $700 on Ebay that just doesn't register :shock:
So, what do you guys think? JP Hardware with access to its Hucards librarray plus all CD games or US hardware with access to US Hucarrds and all CD-roms? I go for the JP versions...
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OBEY TEH PCE!
The PCE is leaps and bounds ahead of the TG16. The only differences are the cosmetics and the library of games. In both departments the PCE dominates. The PCE own all the 16 bit consoles, though, so the TG shouldn't feel too bad. Now, I do love the TGCD unit, possibly more than the PCE briefcase, and the Turbo Duo looks better than the PCE Duo - I'm not a fan of the purple.
As for why Turbo stuff is going for so much on eBay, I'm not really sure. The Wii VC could have something to do with that, but I'm sure others here would be able to explain it better.
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hmmm, so you're telling me you like that Cadillac-sized black TGCD docking unit compared to the slick, compact PC Engine Interface brief-case/docking unit all-in one? Personally I owned both and I was shocked to realize how slick/compactly designed the PCE Interface/briefcase is... I've seen it in pictures but after picking one up in person I was amazed at its real size...
Agree on PCE ruling over TG....
OBEY TEH PCE!
The PCE is leaps and bounds ahead of the TG16. The only differences are the cosmetics and the library of games. In both departments the PCE dominates. The PCE own all the 16 bit consoles, though, so the TG shouldn't feel too bad. Now, I do love the TGCD unit, possibly more than the PCE briefcase, and the Turbo Duo looks better than the PCE Duo - I'm not a fan of the purple.
As for why Turbo stuff is going for so much on eBay, I'm not really sure. The Wii VC could have something to do with that, but I'm sure others here would be able to explain it better.
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Nowadays, there's no logical reason to buy anything other than a Duo-R (barring a deal too good to pass up, of course); it's well built, relatively cheap, allows access to almost the entire PCE/Turbo library, and can easily be modded to play the handful of US exclusive HuCards. The only reasons to buy anything else are aesthetics, nostalgia, or the aforementioned sweet deals.
As for why the US stuff is so pricey, I think ceti is close to the mark. There's a retro game fad going on, being led by the Wii's VC, so a lot of people are jumping on the "it's old school, therefor I'm hardcore!" bandwagon, consequently driving up prices. The Turbo goodies have gone up far quicker in price (compared to the PCE) due to its poor sales making it legitimately more rare, coupled with the fact that it's relatively easy to assemble a complete collection due to its small library. Increased demand plus a bunch of goons that desperately "need" a game for a collection that'll never get played equals high prices for us all.
Dear Robot Jesus, please let this fad soon end and force more clowns to sell their goodies at a loss. Amen.
the Turbo Duo looks better than the PCE Duo
TurboDuo über alles. Sleek, black, and sexy trumps all.
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hmmm, so you're telling me you like that Cadillac-sized black TGCD docking unit compared to the slick, compact PC Engine Interface brief-case/docking unit all-in one? Personally I owned both and I was shocked to realize how slick/compactly designed the PCE Interface/briefcase is... I've seen it in pictures but after picking one up in person I was amazed at its real size...
Don't get me wrong, I love the PCE briefcase design, but there's just a certain je ne c'est quoi with the TGCD. 8)
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lol. 2nd that. someone sell me Beyond Shadowgate!!
Seems interesting the WII VC is determined to be one of the main sources pushing demand....
talking about the DUO-Rs.... I own a Duo-RX, a SuperCD-Rom attachement, and a oldschool CDRom unit with the Interface kit. As you can see I collect as well as play :)
The oldschool CD unit does seem louder when spinning/pulling data off CDs, compared to the DUO-R/Rxs..... the SUPERCD unit is just too cool for me to not own.
I play the CD w/interface since it's AV out is generic. I've got the other two with minty boxes put away for another day :)
Looking at the LT as perhaps the next target....... that or the Laseractive... hmm. tough choice.
Dear Robot Jesus, please let this fad soon end and force more clowns to sell their goodies at a loss. Amen.
the Turbo Duo looks better than the PCE Duo
TurboDuo über alles. Sleek, black, and sexy trumps all.
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naturally the PCE > TG16.
Its got a larger library, and almost all of the same games. The exclusive US titles aren't really must have in comparison to the Japanese exclusives. :)
Hardware wise, its all preference. Any CD-ROM unit is just as doofy and can break, so you just pick "White, or black?"
the Duo-R/X are the best units though. :)
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I don't think anyone can argue the fact that the game library for our fellow Japanese version is a ton better and the Japanese Duo-R and Duo-RX are a ton more reliable. For me it's exactly as Necro stated in part of his post:
The only reasons to buy anything else are aesthetics, nostalgia, or the aforementioned sweet deals.
It's nostalgia for me. When I had a Turbo as a kid, I never even knew about the Japanese market. I only had a Turbo and a couple of games and wasn't a hardcore gamer at all. Now I can pick up and play all the games I missed out on as a kid. Sure the Japanese stuff is cheaper with only minor to no differences, but the Japanese stuff wasn't what I couldn't have as a kid (like I said I didn't even know about it at the time). So for me personally, I wan't what I couldn't have back then. And those were the U.S. games.
Sure I'll dive into the Japanese games after I've beaten a large portion/all of the U.S. games but as for now U.S. stuff is where it's at for me. I'll dive into the PCE eventually as I wouldn't want to miss out on the Japanese goodness.
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its not like it matters as far as aesthetics.
SuperGrafx > All
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The TurboGrafx-16 is way more gooder than the shitty PC Engine. For one, the graphiks and soundz are way better there are better gamez and better control. The TurboGrafx-16 has an adpator to be bakwords compatible with the shitty PC Engine so you can play all of its games the Turgobgrafx wins!
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The TurboGrafx-16 is way more gooder than the shitty PC Engine. For one, the graphiks and soundz are way better there are better gamez and better control. The TurboGrafx-16 has an adpator to be bakwords compatible with the shitty PC Engine so you can play all of its games the Turgobgrafx wins!
Take this truth pill and call me in the morning. :lol:
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I vote SuperGrafX with rau-30 and briefcase cdrom... yes, I actually owned that at one time...
Actually... as the question asks... pce or tg16... I have to say pce... the briefcase was awesome... If you ask me, that was what designed the duo...
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Turbo wins because I can read the game names and I'm ignorant.
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Turbo wins because I can read the game names and I'm ignorant.
lol
awesome.
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TurboDuo wins because this is America, dammit.
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now now... lets leave nationalism out of this discussion [-(
Because if you go that route, then NEC America deserves to get smacked around for marketing "Johnny Turbo" instead of NEC Japan's awesome library it left behind back in the golden age of the 16-bit wars!!
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Because if you go that route, then NEC America deserves to get smacked around for marketing "Johnny Turbo" instead of NEC Japan's awesome library it left behind back in the golden age of the 16-bit wars!!
Speaking of this... if you ran NEC America, which games would you have brought over during the 1989 TG-16 USA launch and then in 1990? Just for fun I pulled all the releases up till end of 1989. Assuming it takes 1 year lag for translation/localization.... these are the games we can work with during the critical launch years.... lets have some fun
Bikkuri World / ビックリマンワールド 1987 HuCard
Shanghai / 上海 1987 HuCard
The Kung Fu / THE 功夫 1987 HuCard
Kato chan & Ken chan / カトちゃんケンちゃん 1987 HuCard
Victory Run / ビクトリーラン ―栄光の13,000キロ― 1987 HuCard
Power League All Star Gold HuCard / パワーリーグ オールスターゴルド 1988 HuCard
Necromancer / 邪聖剣ネクロマンサー 1988 HuCard
Youkaidouchuuki / 妖怪道中記 1988 HuCard
R-TYPE I / アールタイプ I 1988 HuCard
Yuu Yuu Jinsei / 遊々人生 1988 HuCard
Pro Yakyuu World Stadium / プロ野球ワールドスタジアム 1988 HuCard
R-TYPE II / アールタイプ II 1988 HuCard
Power League / パワーリーグ 1988 HuCard
Sengoku Mahjong / 戦国麻雀 1988 HuCard
Galaga '88 / ギャラガ'88 1988 HuCard
Pro Tennis World Court / プロテニスワールドコート 1988 HuCard
Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru / 魔神英雄伝ワタル 1988 HuCard
Alien Crush / エイリアンクラッシュ 1988 HuCard
Gaia No Monshou / ガイアの紋章 1988 HuCard
Makyou Densetsu / 魔境伝説 1988 HuCard
Fantasy Zone / ファンタジーゾーン 1988 HuCard
Sadakichi Seven / 定吉七番 秀吉の黄金 1988 HuCard
Fighting Street / ファイティング・ストリート 1988 CD-ROM²
NoRiKo / 小川範子 1988 CD-ROM²
Space Harrier / スペースハリアー 1988 HuCard
Dragon Spirit / ドラゴンスピリット 1988 HuCard
Appare! Gateball / あっぱれ！ゲートボール 1988 HuCard
Bikkuri Daijikai / ビックリマン大事界 1988 CD-ROM²
Gunhed Special Version / ガンへード スペシャルバージョン 1989 HuCard
China Warrior 1989 HuCard
World Class Baseball 1989 HuCard
World Court Tennis 1989 HuCard
Victory Run 1989 HuCard
Vigilante 1989 HuCard
Takin' It To The Hoop 1989 HuCard
Space Harrier 1989 HuCard
Sidearms 1989 HuCard
R-Type 1989 HuCard
Power Golf 1989 HuCard
Pac Land 1989 HuCard
Ordyne 1989 HuCard
Moto Roader 1989 HuCard
Military Madness 1989 HuCard
The Legendary Axe 1989 HuCard
Keith Courage In Alpha Zones 1989 HuCard
Galaga '90 1989 HuCard
Fantasy Zone 1989 HuCard
Final Lap Twin 1989 HuCard
Dungeon Explorer 1989 HuCard
Dragon Spirit 1989 HuCard
Deep Blue 1989 HuCard
Blazing Lazers 1989 HuCard
Alien Crush 1989 HuCard
Fighting Street 1989 CD-ROM²
Vigilante / ビジランテ 1989 HuCard
Son Son II / ソンソンII 1989 HuCard
Moto Roader / モトローダー 1989 HuCard
Nectaris / ネクタリス 1989 HuCard
Hani In The Sky / はにい いんざ すかい 1989 HuCard
Winning Shot / ウイニングショット 1989 HuCard
Dungeon Explorer / ダンジョン エクスプローラー 1989 HuCard
Out Live / アウトライブ 1989 HuCard
Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman / 改造町人シュビビンマン 1989 HuCard
P-47 - The Freedom Fighter / P-47 THE FREEDOM FIGHTER 1989 HuCard
F-1 Pilot - You're King of Kings / F1パイロット 1989 HuCard
Shiryou Sensen - War Of The Dead / 死霊戦線 WAR OF THE DEAD 1989 HuCard
Golf Boys / がんばれ！ゴルフボーイズ 1989 HuCard
Deep Blue / ディープブルー・海底神話 1989 HuCard
Kyūkyoku Tiger / 究極タイガー 1989 HuCard
Space Adventure Cobra / SPACE ADVENTURE コブラ ―黒竜王の伝説― 1989 CD-ROM²
Makai Hakkenden Shada / 魔界八犬伝SHADA 1989 HuCard
Energy / エナジー 1989 HuCard
Wonder Momo / ワンダーモモ 1989 HuCard
Susa No Ou Densetsu / 凄ノ王伝説 1989 HuCard
Power Golf / パワーゴルフ 1989 HuCard
Naxat Open / ナグザット オープン 1989 HuCard
Pac-Land / パックランド 1989 HuCard
WaiWai Ma Jong Yukaina Jantomotachi / わいわい麻雀 ゆかいな雀友たち 1989 HuCard
Fire Pro Wrestling Combination Tag / ファイヤープロレスリング コンビネーションタッグ 1989 HuCard
Cyber Cross / 武装刑事サイバークロス 1989 HuCard
Valis II - The Fantasm Soldier / ヴァリスII THE FANTASM SOLDIER 1989 CD-ROM²
Jinmu Denshou / 神武伝承 1989 HuCard
The Ninja Warriors / ニンジャウォーリアーズ 1989 HuCard
Tengai Makyou - Far East Of Eden - Ziria / 天外魔境 ZIRIA 1989 CD-ROM²
Final Lap Twin / ファイナルラップ・ツイン 1989 HuCard
Gunhed / ガンヘッド 1989 HuCard
Side Arms Hyper Dyne / サイドアーム 1989 HuCard
Takeda Shingen / 武田信玄 1989 HuCard
Maison Ikkoku / めぞん一刻 1989 HuCard
Power League II / パワーリーグII 1989 HuCard
Break In / ブレイク・イン 1989 HuCard
F-1 Dream / F-1ドリーム 1989 HuCard
Rock-On / ロック・オン 1989 HuCard
Wonder Boy III - Monster Lair / ワンダーボーイIII モンスター・レアー 1989 CD-ROM²
Bloody Wolf / ならずもの戦闘部隊 BLOODY WOLF 1989 HuCard
Ordyne / オーダイン 1989 HuCard
Super Albatross / SUPERアルバトロス 1989 CD-ROM²
Super Momotarou Dentetsu / スーパー桃太郎電鉄 1989 HuCard
Jūouki / Altered Beast / 獣王記 1989 CD-ROM²
Jūouki / Altered Beast / 獣王記 1989 HuCard
Artist Tool / アーティストツール 1989 HuCard
Double Dungeons / ダブルダンジョン 1989 HuCard
Digital Champ Battle Boxing / デジタルチャンプ バトルボクシング 1989 HuCard
Tatsu no Ko Fighter / 竜の子ファイター 1989 HuCard
Kagami no Kuni no Legend / 鏡の国のレジェンド 1989 CD-ROM²
ROMROM Karaoke Volume 1 / ロムロムカラオケ ボリューム1 1989 CD-ROM²
ROMROM Karaoke Volume 2 / ロムロムカラオケ ボリューム2 1989 CD-ROM²
Doraemon Meikyuu Daisakusen / ドラえもん 迷宮大作戦 1989 HuCard
Tsuru Teruhito No Jissen Kabushiki Bai Bai Game / 都留照人の実戦株式倍バイゲーム 1989 HuCard
Neutopia - Fray no Shou / ニュートピア フレイの章 1989 HuCard
Daichi-kun Crisis / 大地くんクライシス 1989 HuCard
Jack Nicklaus' Greatest 18 Holes Of Major Championship Golf / ジャックニクラウス・チャンピオンシップ・ゴルフ 1989 HuCard
Mahjong Gakuen / 麻雀学園 東間宗四郎登場 1989 HuCard
Gambler Jikochuushinha / ぎゅわんぶらあ自己中心派 CDだよ全員集合!! 激闘36雀士 1989 CD-ROM²
Bari Bari Densetsu / バリバリ伝説 1989 HuCard
Battle Ace / バトルエース 1989 Super HuCard
Mr. Heli No Daibouken / ミスターヘリの大冒険 1989 HuCard
USA Pro Basketball / USAプロバスケットボール 1989 HuCard
Bull Fight / ブルファイト リングの覇者 1989 HuCard
Shinobi / 忍 1989 HuCard
Kore ga Pro Baseball '89 / これがプロ野球'89 1989 HuCard
PC Genjin / PC原人 1989 HuCard
Red Alert / レッドアラート 1989 CD-ROM²
Side Arms Special / サイドアーム スペシャル 1989 CD-ROM²
ROMROM Karaoke Volume 3 / ロムロムカラオケ ボリューム3 1989 CD-ROM²
Ys I & II - Ancient Ys Vanished / イースI・II 1989 CD-ROM²
Benkei Gaiden / 弁慶－外伝－ 1989 HuCard
Heavy Unit / ヘビー・ユニット 1989 HuCard
Knight Rider Special / ナイトライダースペシャル 1989 HuCard
ROM ROM Stadium / ロムロムスタジアム 1989 CD-ROM²
F1 Triple Battle / F1トリプルバトル 1989 HuCard
Volfied / ヴォルフィード 1989 HuCard
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i would have brought them all.
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1989 Releases Re-do at launch:
(Wonderboy) Bikkuri World
Shanghai
Victory Run
World Class Baseball
R-TYPE
Galaga '88
Pro Tennis World Court / プロテニスワールドコート 1988 HuCard
Alien Crush / エイリアンクラッシュ 1988 HuCard
Fantasy Zone
Fighting Street
Space Harrier
Dragon Spirit
Blazing Lasers
China Warrior
1990 Releases Re-do:
Vigilante
Takin' It To The Hoop
Sidearms
Power Golf
Pac Land
Ordyne
Moto Roader
Military Madness
The Legendary Axe
Final Lap Twin
Dungeon Explorer
Deep Blue
Son Son II
(Shockman 1) Shubibinman
Kyūkyoku Tiger
Valis II - The Fantasm Soldier
The Ninja Warriors
Tengai Makyou - Far East Of Eden - Ziria / 天外魔境 ZIRIA 1989 CD-ROM²
World Class Baseball 2 (Power League II)
Wonder Boy III - Monster Lair
Bloody Wolf
Double Dungeons
Digital Champ Battle Boxing
Doraemon Meikyuu Daisakusen
Neutopia - Fray no Shou
Jack Nicklaus' Greatest 18 Holes Of Major Championship Golf
Mr. Heli No Daibouken / ミスターヘリの大冒険 1989 HuCard
Shinobi / 忍 1989 HuCard
(Bonk) PC Genjin / PC原人 1989 HuCard
Ys I & II - Ancient Ys Vanished
Heavy Unit
Knight Rider Special
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After going thru the list of avail games, it seems like NEC America did an okay job picking from the sparse list for 1989 and 1990 releases.. they prob dropped the ball post 1990 which hurt the Duo/TG-16's legacy... so back on topic... PCE wins :mrgreen:
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Looking at these lists makes me realize what a good job NEC America actually DID do during these years. It wasn't perfect, but their choices weren't as bad as I'd thought. If anything, I'd actually cut junk like Ordyne in favor of solid titles like Wonderboy in Monsterland/Bikkuriman World and Shinobi. Shinobi really should have made it over.
The first Shockman game and Ninja Warriors wouldn't have made good choices. They aren't "next gen" enough and I think they would have hurt the console's chances here even further. Ninja Warriors is a poor version, barely a step above NES quality.
Keith Courage was a good choice to port for the opposite of the reason I just mentioned, but it shouldn't have been the pack-in. Blazing Lazers should have been until Bonk's Adventure came out.
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I like pce better. pce has more games. a little more risque(cant spell sorry). I like the artwork better on boxes. I like japanese characters instead of english. One downer is I cant play pce rpgs worth a shit
I feel the reason why tg16 games are more expensive on ebay is because f*ckin a$$holes like game squad buys up shit jack up the prices and everyone else follows like greedy sheep.
to me actually they are really the same to me cause I use a converter. cds work on both systems and so do the cards. its the same.
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Given that list, I agree with nat -- the ones that NEC brought over for the time weren't too bad. By looking at that list, perhaps the battle was lost in the very beginning. I distinctly recall EGM picking the Genesis over the TG16 when the two systems first came out, and articles like that probably swayed a lot of people over to the Sega camp, including myself. And once the momentum shifts one way, it hardly ever goes back (the only exception I can think of is the war between SNES/Genesis).
Well, what if TG16 came out a 12-18 months before the Genny? That might've worked out in NEC's favor. After all, In Japan, the PCE came out almost 2 years before the Mega Drive, and most PCE users didn't see a need to "upgrade" until the Super Famicom.
It's all speculation, but who knows...
edit: And if I HAD to choose between PCE and TG16, it's the PCE for obvious library reasons. But I mod them anyway, so who cares. As for pure styling, it'd be the TurboDuo (I prefer the silver letter/black trim over the garish purple & turquoise trim of the PCE Duo, which is my current setup).
As for games, if the game exists on both formats, I generally prefer the US one, because reading English (whether it be game menus, text, manuals, etc) is a lot less taxing on my brain than reading Japanese. Only times I prefer the Japanese ones are if the US ones are censored/altered (aka KCKC, Splatterhouse), or US version fetches extreme prices. I could give a rat's ass about cover art.
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As for games, if the game exists on both formats, I generally prefer the US one, because reading English (whether it be game menus, text, manuals, etc) is a lot less taxing on my brain than reading Japanese. Only times I prefer the Japanese ones are if the US ones are censored/altered (aka KCKC, Splatterhouse), or US version fetches extreme prices. I could give a rat's ass about cover art.
Rat's ass or not... it's amazing how bad NEC America's choices were on box art.. but intersting to think about it in a another perspective. If the world is what it is now but we are back in 1989, then these ports + box art would probably have came straight over. Back then we didn't live in a globalized world and JP/anime-styled art wasn't appreciated by the masses... I mean look at Crater Maze... they even had to change up Doraemon completely into a mess just to bring it to the US!
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Definitely agree though, on Blazing Lasers being a kick-ass packin-what-if, and that Shinobi def should have made it over. To keep this discussion on topic, I won't post the games released in 1990 in JP... the battle could have been won in the US for sure if NEC America had handled that year's ports better. For that... PCE still rules :)
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yea alot of the US boxart just sucked.
Bomberman especially. What in the flying dickshit was that supposed to be.
I will say SOME US boxart was pretty cool.
I liked China Warrior, the Devil/Alien pinball games, and Neutopia.
Cosmic Fantasy 2 was also pretty cool.
but man.
some were just meth induced disasters
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I'd actually cut junk like Ordyne in favor of solid titles like Wonderboy in Monsterland/Bikkuriman World and Shinobi. Shinobi really should have made it over.
I don't think Bikkuriman and Shinobi would have made good titles for the US. I much prefer the Sega Master System version of Wonderboy in Monster Land and if that had come out in the US, people would have thought of the Turbo as getting versions of old Master System games with a giant, ever-present bar on the side of the screen. At least Dragon's Curse had a slightly noticeable improvement in the visuals over the SMS version. Shinobi is a good game, but crippled. It is missing an entire level (one of the best ones, in fact) and people would have wondered why the SMS version can have all of the levels but a "next-gen" machine like the TurboGrafx-16 could not.
I do agree that Blazing Lazers or perhaps Legendary Axe should have been the pack-in until Bonk arrived. Keith Courage appealed to no one.
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yea alot of the US boxart just sucked.
Bomberman especially. What in the flying dickshit was that supposed to be.
The Bomberman box art definitly is THE WORST representation of a fabulous game. I recall going to Toy'R'US scouring for games as a teen and the first interfacing consumers had back then was box art. I never ever thought about Bomberman cuz the boxart suckd so much.. it wasn't until much later when I saw the gameplay I picked it up and went "wow". The original Hudson art was fabulous... that was a terrible goofup...
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I too agree that NEC did a pretty good job bringing over the available games early in the Turbografx launch. The real comparison is that the Genesis was bringing home arcade quality name brand games, and the TG could not compete.
Unfortunately for NEC, the really good stuff came out a year late, and the CD add-on was just too expensive when it launched to really get the momentum it deserved.
...but back on topic, Beyond Shadowgate is awesome. Turbo still wins.
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lol..what a question? sure the PCE is superior in every possible, thinkable and imaginable aspect :idea:
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This debate is stupid. They are the same system. They were all built and designed in Japan (except possibly the exterior design of the TG-16 and docking station...it would be hard to imagine any 1980s Japanese design house putting out that huge blob of crap). Every TG-16 game was released in Japan, usually, first, except for a very small number of them, usually horrible.
The TG-16 is just an example of localizing a system to regional tastes. Evidently it worked really really well on some people, but overall it was kind of a huge flop. The continued devotion to the TG-16 concept as a completely different system is an example of some people simply wanting to put everything in existence into little categories and build false dichotomies out of nothing.
One more thing: OBEY THE PCE!
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I am kind of torn on the issue. I like them both!
When I was young the only thing I was jealous of was the SuperGrafx was only available in Japan.
Also, I would have killed to have the PCE version of Shinobi back then. The SMS and NES versions were both slightly disappointing.
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it would be hard to imagine any 1980s Japanese design house putting out that huge blob of crap
1. SMS 2
2. NES 2
3. Mega Drive 2
All 80's systems designed in Japan that look faaaar worse than the TurboGrafx-16, even with the CD-ROM attached. The SMS2 is just downright hideous! The Turbo looks sleek, like a sports car. I'm not sure why the Turbo gets so much hate. It was definitely designed in Japan. It is a near carbon copy of the PC Engine molding, just longer.
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whats wrong with the turbo.
ffs, its not very talll, its a little deep, but you can stack systems on top it since the game slides in the front.
lol
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it would be hard to imagine any 1980s Japanese design house putting out that huge blob of crap
1. SMS 2
2. NES 2
3. Mega Drive 2
All 80's systems designed in Japan that look faaaar worse than the TurboGrafx-16, even with the CD-ROM attached. The SMS2 is just downright hideous! The Turbo looks sleek, like a sports car. I'm not sure why the Turbo gets so much hate. It was definitely designed in Japan. It is a near carbon copy of the PC Engine molding, just longer.
I think the reason the TG gets teased so much about its design is because the PCE design was so great. I'm guilty of making fun of the TG's design from time to time, but honestly, I agree that compared to a lot of consoles it looks great.
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TG16 is definitely not as cool as PCE (especially with briefcase setup), but it'll do. The docking station is a bit goofy compared to the PCE/CD-ROM setup for sure, but as a stand-alone system, I think it looks better than most systems I can think of from top of my head.
I thought what they did to the Super Famicom -> US SNES was a lot more hideous.
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Once the whole TG+CD is set up though, it looks like some cool ass monolith of epic proportions.
I stack little figures and stuff ontop the turbo part so theres always an epic battle atop my system
Currently, some Skaven ratmen are battling Empire scum for control of the Sys3 card.
Last week, dinosaurs were all up ons.
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TurboGrafx + CD looks light years better than any PCE + Super CD-ROM.
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TurboGrafx + CD looks light years better than any PCE + Super CD-ROM.
no way brother! PCE suit case + LT w/CD is #1, then the suitcase CD setup, followed by the SuperCD attachment.. then maybe TG-16CD. The SuperCD+a Coregrafx I or II is sexy as fock.
these debates are fun indeed... but I think the consensus is still slight edge to PCE thus far!
off tangent - I just picked up Galaxy Galvan... I never heard of this game, it doesnt seem to float around that much so it's not overprinted for sure.. I read about it from the collection of PC Engine Monthly I picked up from Tokyo last week.. the game looks really cool so I decided to give it a try.
http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!BdP8d+QBGk~$(KGrHqEH-DsEreR0u9tuBK4F7-ULEQ~~_12.JPG
I wanted a copy with Spine but that was going for 12,000 yen in Japan... so I settled for $49 off Ebay...
If this game kicks ass, then it's one more reason for the PCE!!
(though Beyond Shadowgate on TG definitely is a towering giant over many other good PCE games combined...)
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1. SMS 2
2. NES 2
3. Mega Drive 2
All 80's systems designed in Japan that look faaaar worse than the TurboGrafx-16, even with the CD-ROM attached. The SMS2 is just downright hideous! The Turbo looks sleek, like a sports car. I'm not sure why the Turbo gets so much hate. It was definitely designed in Japan. It is a near carbon copy of the PC Engine molding, just longer.
I like the NES2. I also kind of like the Genesis 2 (although not as much as the original, and certainly NOT the Sega CD2). Obviously the SMS2 is just a terrible, and terribly cheap, looking POS.
What exactly makes you think these designs were from Japan? I have little insight to the way the product design works and for sure these sorts of things were outsourced all over the place. Sega and Nintendo had a very international presence back then, I wouldn't be surprised if the SMS/Genisis/NES2s were from like...Frog Design, or IBM or someplace. Was the SMS2 even released in Japan?
The TG-16 does indeed look like a stretched PCE, and why it is stretched, why the internals are all full of kit instead of just air...did we ever figure that out? Either way, I think you are right that that NEC probably did do that design, but why is it big?
It certainly doesn't look like a sports car. One of the cardinal rules of sports car design is that it shouldn't be any bigger than it absolutely has to be. Lotus 7, Mazda Miata, Alpha Spyder. The TG-16 is much more like a Pontiac Aztek, esspecially with that stupid hollow cover on the back. And the CDROM2 set-up for it...what the hell? Could it be any stupider?
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And the CDROM2 set-up for it...what the hell? Could it be any stupider?
Yes:
(http://www.computercloset.org/SegaGenesis1CD.jpg)
(http://www.old-computers.com/museum/hardware/atari_jaguar-cd_3.jpg)
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jaguar looks like a space ship
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jaguar looks like a space ship
These are the voyages of the starship Jaguar. It's five month mission, to boldly go nowhere.
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I think its obvious until VERY recently, American mass market's common mentality was "bigger is better". It certainly was true back in 1989/1990. Look at the Famicon's conversion to that shitty NES box. If the TG-16 used the same sexy compact size as PCE, kids' neighbors would probably pick on the new owners of the compact TG-16 by saying "ohhh, your new machine is smit, it's so small, looks so weak, my NES is bigger.. go Nintendo Power! or something dumb like that... "
The TG-16 does indeed look like a stretched PCE, and why it is stretched, why the internals are all full of kit instead of just air...did we ever figure that out? Either way, I think you are right that that NEC probably did do that design, but why is it big?
It certainly doesn't look like a sports car. One of the cardinal rules of sports car design is that it shouldn't be any bigger than it absolutely has to be. Lotus 7, Mazda Miata, Alpha Spyder. The TG-16 is much more like a Pontiac Aztek, esspecially with that stupid hollow cover on the back. And the CDROM2 set-up for it...what the hell? Could it be any stupider?
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Yes, but that doesn't explain why the TG-16's giant case is almost completely full of electronics.
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footprint-on-shelf wise, the TG-16 isn't even a spacewhore.
If you put it on top a Genesis, an SNES, or a MASTER SYSTEM, its not really hoggin up all kindsa space.
and it's design still allows it to be UNDER another console, and still be 100% useful.
can't stack a sega on top an SNES if space is low
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It is widely known throughout the entire US (ask anyone, they'll know) that the TurboGrafx-16 is larger to comply with FCC regulations of the time. It spread shit out and added a more shielding because our RF frequencies cannot be tampered with, goddammit! Heaven forbid that when you turn on your TG-16 your mom gets a little bit of static and/or snow on the TV in her room. Or maybe your sister can't hear Guns N' Roses quite as clearly on the radio (or whoever was popular in those days... WHAM maybe?).
This could be the case for the Famicom vs the NES as well. The Mega Drive was already supa-huge so it didn't need modification. The Sega Mark III looked like a piece of rotted dog shit so they had to redesign the Sega Master System for the US to make it crazy awesome. The FCC really relaxed their policies on this not long after all of that. I don't recall any systems after the TG-16 that needed physical modification to come to the US.
I really don't think that the "bigger is better" attitude had anything to do with it. The US controllers are often larger, but that is only because Japanese have tiny midget micro hands. :)
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Before even clicking on this post I was already going to mention Magical Chase being the only reason to buy a TG16. But is the game really worth $400 more than the PC Engine version? I have owned both versions and I can say I really didn't even care the PC Engine version was a little watered down as compared to the English version. Most of the comaprisons as far as I can remember are in the first level. With the exception of Ripple being a "little" different in the Eng version. I have owned at least 5 duo's, all broke with sound issues. And a English TG16 with the CD Rom adaptor (also crap).
I have to agree with the people who mentioned the Super Grafx, with the Super CD Rom2 unit and RAU-30 adaptor. It is a solid console. But it is also really expensive. Is it really worth it to own it and have acces to what, 5 or 6 games? Of which only 1 or 2 are worth owning. And even Daimakaimura can be had on various other consoles. I just don't think it's worth it. I have a Duo-R now, and I'm happy with it.
I can't think of a single Hu-Card that you must know english to be able to play that can't be had on the PC Engine. Even dungeon explorer can be easily beaten on the PC Engine. And Double Dungeons is crap compared to some of the other stuff on the Duo. Wonder Boy dragon's Curse is the "only" really good RPG/Action RPG that was released here. And that doesn't really require English to play.
Lets see... Have access to 1/10 of the games, and pay extra for a crappy console that "IS", going to break (it's just a matter of time). Or have acces to every game made and play on a solid console that works, and have Hu-Cards that look much slicker and have actual art on them, and for the most part color manuals. Not much of a choice there.
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(http://www.4ewa.com/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/skype_emotions/emoticon-0157-sun.gif)
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off tangent - I just picked up Galaxy Galvan... I never heard of this game, it doesnt seem to float around that much so it's not overprinted for sure.. I read about it from the collection of PC Engine Monthly I picked up from Tokyo last week.. the game looks really cool so I decided to give it a try.
http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!BdP8d+QBGk~$(KGrHqEH-DsEreR0u9tuBK4F7-ULEQ~~_12.JPG
I wanted a copy with Spine but that was going for 12,000 yen in Japan... so I settled for $49 off Ebay...
If this game kicks ass, then it's one more reason for the PCE!!
Sorry dude, that game totally sucks balls.
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=804.msg35291#msg35291
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off tangent - I just picked up Galaxy Galvan... I never heard of this game, it doesnt seem to float around that much so it's not overprinted for sure.. I read about it from the collection of PC Engine Monthly I picked up from Tokyo last week.. the game looks really cool so I decided to give it a try.
http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!BdP8d+QBGk~$(KGrHqEH-DsEreR0u9tuBK4F7-ULEQ~~_12.JPG
I wanted a copy with Spine but that was going for 12,000 yen in Japan... so I settled for $49 off Ebay...
If this game kicks ass, then it's one more reason for the PCE!!
Sorry dude, that game totally sucks balls.
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=804.msg35291#msg35291
Gate of Thunder is the farkin' best 8-/16-bit h-shoot 'em up! man!
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I can't think of a single Hu-Card that you must know english to be able to play that can't be had on the PC Engine.
I can: Order of the Griffon. I'd region mod a Duo-R just for it and the handful of other titles with lots of text.
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I would judt pop it in my regular tg16 system. Doesnt make pce less of a system.
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Lets see... Have access to 1/10 of the games, and pay extra for a crappy console that "IS", going to break (it's just a matter of time). Or have acces to every game made and play on a solid console that works, and have Hu-Cards that look much slicker and have actual art on them, and for the most part color manuals. Not much of a choice there.
To be fair, all those break-happy versions of the console also have a Japanese counterpart. There are just as many PC Engine Duos with bad caps as there are Turbo Duos, and there are even more broken PCE CDROM2s than there are TG-16 CD units. All this stuff, as I said before, was made in the same factories. The main difference is that what we now believe to be the most reliable iteration of the hardware, the Duo R/RX was never released in the US.
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It is widely known throughout the entire US (ask anyone, they'll know) that the TurboGrafx-16 is larger to comply with FCC regulations of the time. It spread shit out and added a more shielding because our RF frequencies cannot be tampered with, goddammit! Heaven forbid that when you turn on your TG-16 your mom gets a little bit of static and/or snow on the TV in her room. Or maybe your sister can't hear Guns N' Roses quite as clearly on the radio (or whoever was popular in those days... WHAM maybe?).
In 1989? Maybe if you had a really uncool sister.
So anyway, yes, we've heard this story before, about RF interference, but is it actually true?
This could be the case for the Famicom vs the NES as well.
The design changes made to the NES, and the reasons behind them, are pretty well documented and I'm not aware of the FCC having anything to do with them.
The Mega Drive was already supa-huge so it didn't need modification. The Sega Mark III looked like a piece of rotted dog shit so they had to redesign the Sega Master System for the US to make it crazy awesome. The FCC really relaxed their policies on this not long after all of that. I don't recall any systems after the TG-16 that needed physical modification to come to the US.
I'm pretty sure the reason why game systems are no longer totally redesigned for export is the same reason they are no longer renamed for export. They are designed with world-wise markets in mind from the beginning since selling a machine only in Japan these days, and ever making your money back from the design, is totally impossible.
BTW, I love the MKIII!
I really don't think that the "bigger is better" attitude had anything to do with it. The US controllers are often larger, but that is only because Japanese have tiny midget micro hands. :)
Yeah, I'm not sure it did either, but I'm not convinced with the FCC thing yet either.
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but do you think turbo games packaging look not so aesthetic pleasing, pc engine is far far cooler, maybe i am more japanese centric, but some of the turbo packaging and design makes me cringe
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I have to agree with the people who mentioned the Super Grafx, with the Super CD Rom2 unit and RAU-30 adaptor. It is a solid console. But it is also really expensive. Is it really worth it to own it and have acces to what, 5 or 6 games? Of which only 1 or 2 are worth owning. And even Daimakaimura can be had on various other consoles..
More like only one game ISN'T worth owning :P
It is widely known throughout the entire US (ask anyone, they'll know) that the TurboGrafx-16 is larger to comply with FCC regulations of the time. It spread shit out and added a more shielding because our RF frequencies cannot be tampered with, goddammit! Heaven forbid that when you turn on your TG-16 your mom gets a little bit of static and/or snow on the TV in her room. Or maybe your sister can't hear Guns N' Roses quite as clearly on the radio (or whoever was popular in those days... WHAM maybe?).
In 1989? Maybe if you had a really uncool sister.
Yeah because by '89 NO ONE cared about the "has been" GnR already eh? lol
What I do find funny is all the cover/card art "debate." Of course a majority of the US art for these is subpar, and many of us joke about it. But seriously...how many of you (after you get a game, and check it out) oogle the "art" so often that you would care either way. Sounds like some peeps spend more time staring at the cover than you know...playing :lol:
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Sounds like some peeps spend more time staring at the cover than you know...playing :lol:
You're supposed to play the games? :-k
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off tangent - I just picked up Galaxy Galvan... I never heard of this game, it doesnt seem to float around that much so it's not overprinted for sure.. I read about it from the collection of PC Engine Monthly I picked up from Tokyo last week.. the game looks really cool so I decided to give it a try.
http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!BdP8d+QBGk~$(KGrHqEH-DsEreR0u9tuBK4F7-ULEQ~~_12.JPG
I wanted a copy with Spine but that was going for 12,000 yen in Japan... so I settled for $49 off Ebay...
If this game kicks ass, then it's one more reason for the PCE!!
Sorry dude, that game totally sucks balls.
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=804.msg35291#msg35291
Ignore the man in the fuuny hat (termis) he is clearly insane. :P :twisted: :lol: While Gayvan isn't a deep beat em up, it's colorful, controls well, and beats the crap (excuse the pun) out of the vastly overrated RCR and it's goony hunchbacked goons, and similar ilk.
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but do you think turbo games packaging look not so aesthetic pleasing, pc engine is far far cooler, maybe i am more japanese centric, but some of the turbo packaging and design makes me cringe
I'd have to say that Dungeon Explorer could be an exception to this. Both the PCE and Turbo versions had pretty awful artwork IMO.
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For me, something that is pleasing is that when connected to the TurboGrafx-CD, the TG-16 has ALL of its wires coming from the back of the unit or plugged in to the front (unless you use RF, but if you do, you are an a$$hole). Granted, this is solved when the PCE is hooked up to a CD-ROM ROM ROM or however you say it (at least I think it is... the wires DO come from the back of the CD-ROM ROM ROM, right???). I highly disapprove of wires coming out of the side of any console. It makes the PCE's small form factor one that's really not so small. With those damn wires poking out of the side it really has a fairly large footprint, especially the Duo. There is no excuse for any friggin' Duo to have wires coming out from the sides. I honestly think NEC might have been kind of retarded. I'm surprised they didn't design the PC-FX with wires coming out of the top or bottom or some other insane shit.
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The CDROM2 has all the wires coming out the side. I find this kind of convenient (currently) because when I use it the machine sits on the floor with a vertical cabinet behind it. If the wires came out the back I'd have to have it sitting 2"+ closer, and while my game room is nice, its also very small.
Wires come out the back of the Duo R/RX. Its more convenient on some cases, less in others.
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TurboGrafx is the winner:
(http://archives.tg-16.com/preview/preview_booster_blue.gif)
'nuff said.
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I can't think of a single Hu-Card that you must know english to be able to play that can't be had on the PC Engine.
I can: Order of the Griffon. I'd region mod a Duo-R just for it and the handful of other titles with lots of text.
dang, ya beated me to it.
It is our secret weapon against the text-heavy japanese RPGs
We wave it around and go HAH TAKE THAT, now YOU have a game that you can't read.
and cheer victoriously!
OotG is easily one of the top HuCard RPGs of either region. Those Goldbox games never disappoint
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The briefcase CD-rom unit with connections on the side is actually a great design. It allows the form factor (depth) to remain narrow, basically using the space within the same form factor instead of having AV cables poking out at the rear. I love it actually. You are talking about 20cm in depth... that is great engineering !!
For me, something that is pleasing is that when connected to the TurboGrafx-CD, the TG-16 has ALL of its wires coming from the back of the unit or plugged in to the front (unless you use RF, but if you do, you are an a$$hole). Granted, this is solved when the PCE is hooked up to a CD-ROM ROM ROM or however you say it (at least I think it is... the wires DO come from the back of the CD-ROM ROM ROM, right???). I highly disapprove of wires coming out of the side of any console. It makes the PCE's small form factor one that's really not so small. With those damn wires poking out of the side it really has a fairly large footprint, especially the Duo. There is no excuse for any friggin' Duo to have wires coming out from the sides. I honestly think NEC might have been kind of retarded. I'm surprised they didn't design the PC-FX with wires coming out of the top or bottom or some other insane shit.
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ummmm... Magical Chase PC Engine version are regularly available for 12,000 - 15,000 yen. that's around $150-$175 bucks. There should be no reason the US version sells for $1500 to $2000, basically 10 times the price?!?
For me, I rather find the PC Engine Fan produced special edition of Magical Chase. I would pay $500 for that and use the $1000 saved on other impulse purchases :)
GO PCE!!
Before even clicking on this post I was already going to mention Magical Chase being the only reason to buy a TG16. But is the game really worth $400 more than the PC Engine version? I have owned both versions and I can say I really didn't even care the PC Engine version was a little watered down as compared to the English version. Most of the comaprisons as far as I can remember are in the first level. With the exception of Ripple being a "little" different in the Eng version. I have owned at least 5 duo's, all broke with sound issues. And a English TG16 with the CD Rom adaptor (also crap).
I have to agree with the people who mentioned the Super Grafx, with the Super CD Rom2 unit and RAU-30 adaptor. It is a solid console. But it is also really expensive. Is it really worth it to own it and have acces to what, 5 or 6 games? Of which only 1 or 2 are worth owning. And even Daimakaimura can be had on various other consoles. I just don't think it's worth it. I have a Duo-R now, and I'm happy with it.
I can't think of a single Hu-Card that you must know english to be able to play that can't be had on the PC Engine. Even dungeon explorer can be easily beaten on the PC Engine. And Double Dungeons is crap compared to some of the other stuff on the Duo. Wonder Boy dragon's Curse is the "only" really good RPG/Action RPG that was released here. And that doesn't really require English to play.
Lets see... Have access to 1/10 of the games, and pay extra for a crappy console that "IS", going to break (it's just a matter of time). Or have acces to every game made and play on a solid console that works, and have Hu-Cards that look much slicker and have actual art on them, and for the most part color manuals. Not much of a choice there.
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ummmm... Magical Chase PC Engine version are regularly available for 12,000 - 15,000 yen. that's around $150-$175 bucks. There should be no reason the US version sells for $1500 to $2000, basically 10 times the price?!?
For me, I rather find the PC Engine Fan produced special edition of Magical Chase. I would pay $500 for that and use the $1000 saved on other impulse purchases :)
That's kinda silly, considering the PC Engine Fan version is identical to the normal release. At least with the US version you're getting some graphical improvements for your money.
P.S. - Quit making multiple consecutive posts; that's what the 'Enter' key is for. :wink: