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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: guyjin on July 27, 2010, 02:10:52 AM
Title: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: guyjin on July 27, 2010, 02:10:52 AM
Smartphones are like consoles you carry in your pocket. but they do more than just games. Therefore, which one is successful should be more important to you than life itself! FIGHT!
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Necromancer on July 27, 2010, 02:36:26 AM
The iPhone will win. Not because it's better but because of the Mapple marketing juggernaut and the legions of iSheep that will ignore the competition no matter how good.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: guyjin on July 27, 2010, 05:12:32 AM
The iPhone will win. Not because it's better but because of the Mapple marketing juggernaut and the legions of iSheep that will ignore the competition no matter how good.
you may be right, at least short term. But Apple has learned nothing from its history; a single format from a single manufacturer, no matter how good, can ever compete against choice.
The Apple II and Mac, and many better formats, were all brushed aside by the PC. not because the PC was better, but because PCs got cloned, legitimately. people had choices of what kind of PC they wanted. They had few options when it came to Apple products.
The eventual winner may not be Android, or Windows phone. but it won't be the iPhone.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: TheClash603 on July 27, 2010, 06:40:05 AM
I have spent a lot of time with the Droid (posting using one now) and iphone, and the Droid is better in most aspects.
In fact, the only two areas it is not better are ease of use and app selection. Once the Droid install base gets larger the app store should get more AAA apps and I am OK with the learning curve.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on July 27, 2010, 08:39:17 AM
I say Android, cause I just installed a hacked Android OS on an EPC laptop using Linux...
LOL- not cause I have any kind of smart phone, just cause Android is pretty cool as an OS on a weak little lappy!!
:)
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: nodtveidt on July 27, 2010, 10:13:49 AM
you may be right, at least short term. But Apple has learned nothing from its history; a single format from a single manufacturer, no matter how good, can ever compete against choice.
The Apple II and Mac, and many better formats, were all brushed aside by the PC. not because the PC was better, but because PCs got cloned, legitimately. people had choices of what kind of PC they wanted. They had few options when it came to Apple products.
Nowadays though, you own a PC, and you own Windows. Choice? Most people don't know what that is anymore... nowadays, the only choice they have is which overpriced, under-quality company to get their Windows computer from.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: BlueBMW on July 27, 2010, 12:00:25 PM
All my friends have iphones and I have a droid x. The iPhone seems a bit easier to use, but after I did some customization to mine, its just as easy and I feel like it has the potential to do a lot more since it lacks some of the restrictions that Apple has. Hard to say who will win, but I'll vote Android for now.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: SuperDeadite on July 27, 2010, 01:01:20 PM
I see no point to a so called "smart phone." I have internet at home and at work. During the 30 min travel time between them, I do not need the internet. I use a my phone for making calls and sending emails. Maybe once a year I'll watch free TV on it during an extended train trip. But for me a regular phone is perfectly fine.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 27, 2010, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: guyjin
you may be right, at least short term. But Apple has learned nothing from its history; a single format from a single manufacturer, no matter how good, can ever compete against choice.
The Apple II and Mac, and many better formats, were all brushed aside by the PC. not because the PC was better, but because PCs got cloned, legitimately. people had choices of what kind of PC they wanted. They had few options when it came to Apple products.
You seem to be unaware that Apple makes f*ckLOADS of money these days. They are way bigger and more profitable than they ever were doing the Apple II days. There have always been people who looked at Apple's success as something temporary and said, "Just you wait, it will all come down like a house of cards." People have been saying this for 30 f*cking years now. When's it going to happen? They are more profitable than any PC manufacturer, and in many ways are even doing better than MS, which is really saying something.
As for the original question: Its is a dire and pathetic excuse for a system war. Phones don't evolved like game systems. There are a thousand of them on the market at once, each one expected to last a year or less. Each one designed to make the guy that bought it feel like a dope for not waiting 4.7 days for the next big release. There will never be a PC Engine or C64 of phones that just kicks ass for a decade or whatever. Also, almost every smart phone these days just looks like an iPhone, only cheaper. That's not innovation. Few companies, if any, are really doing their own thing.
Personally, I wish Apple would go back to concentrating on computers again. I really not into phones.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Tatsujin on July 28, 2010, 01:45:37 AM
I hate 'em all!
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Senshi on July 28, 2010, 02:00:35 AM
I prefer my "dumb" phone which requires that I am the smart one in the relationship 8)
Check this video out related to this:
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: guyjin on July 28, 2010, 02:26:44 AM
Nowadays though, you own a PC, and you own Windows.
Not necessarily. Also, I didn't really mean Operating system, I was talking about tech specs. Your Windows computer can probably be configured a thousand different ways; Apple could never make enough different varieties of Mac to please everyone.
There have always been people who looked at Apple's success as something temporary and said, "Just you wait, it will all come down like a house of cards." People have been saying this for 30 f*cking years now. When's it going to happen? They are more profitable than any PC manufacturer, and in many ways are even doing better than MS, which is really saying something.
I never said Apple was going to collapse. They play to their Niche very well. but they can only ever have a niche.
Quote
As for the original question: Its is a dire and pathetic excuse for a system war. Phones don't evolved like game systems. There are a thousand of them on the market at once, each one expected to last a year or less. Each one designed to make the guy that bought it feel like a dope for not waiting 4.7 days for the next big release. There will never be a PC Engine or C64 of phones that just kicks ass for a decade or whatever.
I dunno about that. My friend still has the original iPhone, and he still loves it. And Apple still seems to be supporting it.(dog bless 'em.)
Quote
Also, almost every smart phone these days just looks like an iPhone, only cheaper. That's not innovation. Few companies, if any, are really doing their own thing.
Personally, I wish Apple would go back to concentrating on computers again. I really not into phones.
I don't think my Droid looks anything like an iPhone. I know that a lot of manufacturers are making iPhone-alikes (HTC and Samsung spring immediately to mind) but not all of them are.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: ceti alpha on July 28, 2010, 06:32:15 AM
Android is going to take it. They are already overtaking Apple in sales. The real question is whether or not Android will overtake RIM/Blackberry. Blackberry is pretty entrenched in the business/government world and I'm not just talking up Blackberry because it's Canadian. heh. There's nothing wrong with the iphone...well with the iphone 3GS at least...but Apple did take a one-two hit with all the Android phones coming out recently, along with their technical difficulties regarding the iphone 4. Even Apple fanboys weren't impressed with Steve Jobs' initial comments about the antenna and screen issues.
I read an article before where the author made a Star Wars reference to define Apple's biggest battles. The first was "Attack of the PC clones" and the second being "Attack of the Droids". Apple is not going to be able to withstand all the different options and choices that all the other Android phones are offering. For example, the Samsung Galaxy just came out and has been getting very high praise, and of course there's the HTC EVO and HD2 phones. Android's biggest pro is Apple's biggest con: Openness. For example, unless you don't care about updating your iphone you're stuck with iTunes, which is has become a bloated storefront for Apple instead of a simple music player. Jobs can whine all he wants about Flash, but right or wrong (and I think he's mostly wrong) he should let the consumer decide. You don't realize how much a part of teh internetz Flash is until you can't access it. For me, the lack of Flash is a deal breaker. That said there are many other reasons I would go with Android. I can't comment on what programming for Flash is like, but I'm sure Rove has a few things to say about that. lol :wink: All that said, Apple has its niche market and that's not going anywhere.
As for Rove's statement that you if you buy a PC you only get Windows, well if you a buy a Mac you only get OSX. But in reality you can load linux, Chrome, or Windows on your PC, and you can load Windows on a Mac. Also, I've read online on ways of loading Leopard on your PC by setting your BIOS correctly - Macs are, afterall, just PCs running on an Apple operating system. There are no significant hardware differences anymore now that Apple went to Intel processors. Also, I think Microsoft has pulled up their socks with Windows7. It's a great OS and runs smoother and faster than XP on my current computer. There are lots of new features that I already wouldn't want to go without. Apple may have had a good argument a few years ago when Vista (though the Vista problems were VERY overblown) came out to convince consumers to switch to Apple, but with the release of Windows7 it's a completely different game.
I also don't quite agree that all new smart phones are just iphone clones. RIM/Blackberry was the phone that revolutionized the mobile phone industry and Apple just did their own thing with the smartphone, albeit in a unique way. The HTC EVO looks completely different than an iphone and has unique features compared to the iphone. I mean, I guess they all have a screen and are rectangular in shape, but I wouldn't call them clones. There's no doubt that Apple was very influencial with the release of the first iphone.
Anyway, I'm really rambling here so I'll wrap it up. lol. As it stands now in the US market, Apple is already in 3rd place behind Android (2nd) and RIM, which is in 1st place. Worldwide Symbian is in the lead by a longshot. Windows Mobile and Apple are pretty much in the same position and I don't really see that changing too much in the near future.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 28, 2010, 07:39:05 AM
Quote from: guyjin
I never said Apple was going to collapse. They play to their Niche very well. but they can only ever have a niche.
Yes but...how is that a bad thing...at all? As it is, Dell sells 8x as many computers but rakes in 1/8 the money. Most of these OEMs make as much money from kickbacks from putting shortcuts for trial software on the desktop (something that Apple doesn't do at all) than they do by actually selling the computer itself. Are you saying that is what they should be aiming for?
That's like saying, "Ferrari will always have their niche, but they will never move the number of units Kia does." Why would they want to?
Also, I agree with the "lack of choice" thing. Anyone who was into computers in the 80s had a much better selection*... but that was a different time. Computers were much more reliable back then, and there were more OS to chose from, but computers also cost a lot more and didn't do nearly as much stuff so...its a trade off.
*(Atari, Amiga, non-Amiga Commodore, OS/2, Mac, non-Mac Apple, several flavors of DOS, Windows, and more as opposed to today, where your choices are Windows, Mac, or, what I do, Windows+Mac (or Linux, but please, lets not joke, no normal person uses that shit).
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Necromancer on July 28, 2010, 08:25:29 AM
Yes but...how is that a bad thing...at all? As it is, Dell sells 8x as many computers but rakes in 1/8 the money. Most of these OEMs make as much money from kickbacks from putting shortcuts for trial software on the desktop (something that Apple doesn't do at all) than they do by actually selling the computer itself. Are you saying that is what they should be aiming for?
That's like saying, "Ferrari will always have their niche, but they will never move the number of units Kia does." Why would they want to?
The poll is not asking which phone OS is the most profitable, so what's your point? Guyjin makes a valid point, as Apple makes only one phone: you'll be taking your money elsewhere if you want longer battery life, more durability, a network other than AT&T, improved reception, a better built-in camera, an integrated cheese grater, or flash support.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Turbo D on July 28, 2010, 02:21:15 PM
Most of these OEMs make as much money from kickbacks from putting shortcuts for trial software on the desktop (something that Apple doesn't do at all) than they do by actually selling the computer itself. Are you saying that is what they should be aiming for?
Why include links to trial software for kickbacks when the only software that works(or is worth using) on Mac OS is made by Apple? lol. As far as the iphone goes, the same situation is existent except for the fact that jailbreaking has recently become a legal practice(which I was happy to hear).
Anyone who was into computers in the 80s had a much better selection*... but that was a different time. Computers were much more reliable back then, and there were more OS to chose from, but computers also cost a lot more and didn't do nearly as much stuff so...its a trade off.
I disagree about machines and/or OSs being more reliable in the eighties. The techniques in software design as well as the manufacture of hardware we have today is so far ahead of the technologies of the eighties. In fact (to stay on topic) my cellular phone is a more powerful and more reliable computer than any computer built in the eighties.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: blueraven on July 28, 2010, 03:25:55 PM
The iPhone will win. Not because it's better but because of the Mapple marketing juggernaut and the legions of iSheep that will ignore the competition no matter how good.
Exactly.
But seriously imo, having used the iPhone, Android (Both Linux and the closed-source version), and Blackberry extensively, The iPhone wins HANDS DOWN. Why? because its a f*cking tricorder. Google Sky is cool, but it was the only app I found myself going back to and smiling on the Android. I was bored with the android and didn't like the controls. The Blackberry's email features were cool, but the flimsiness of the micro-keyboard (broken key, broken key, etc) makes me want to throw it against wall (which I did). I can type stupid-fast on the glass screen of my 3G iPhone, and I can tether my linux laptop to it now. I'm willing to bet many of the haters don't own one for whatever reason. And the "Cult Of Mac" is annoying, btw.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: TheClash603 on July 28, 2010, 03:48:01 PM
I play Strip Blackjack on my Droid all of the time. There is titty and meat curtains a plenty in the game.
If I can't see a winking pink brownie cake on the iphone app store, I don't wanna use it.
This is why android is far better.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 28, 2010, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: turbo D
I disagree about machines and/or OSs being more reliable in the eighties. The techniques in software design as well as the manufacture of hardware we have today is so far ahead of the technologies of the eighties. In fact (to stay on topic) my cellular phone is a more powerful and more reliable computer than any computer built in the eighties.
Evidently you don't understand "reliable". Computers back then basically never crashed, ever, until...probably about the time the Mac Plus came out, and things started getting really complicated. Machines like the Apple II or C64 would literally go years without a total lock up, and even then it was almost always due to a read/write error. I don't know about your cell phone, but I've crashed every one I've owned in the last 5 years. My Sidekick LX isn't so bad, but if you don't reboot it every day it gets slow.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 28, 2010, 07:41:31 PM
Quote from: Necromancer
The poll is not asking which phone OS is the most profitable, so what's your point? Guyjin makes a valid point, as Apple makes only one phone: you'll be taking your money elsewhere if you want longer battery life, more durability, a network other than AT&T, improved reception, a better built-in camera, an integrated cheese grater, or flash support.
I was responding to him, not the poll. He said,
Quote
you may be right, at least short term. But Apple has learned nothing from its history; a single format from a single manufacturer, no matter how good, can ever compete against choice
They are "competing" just fine. In fact, totally dominating, might be a better way to put it. They sold, what 1 million iPhone 4s per week for the first three weeks? It sounds like they are doing OK.
The reason why I mention this is because the logical inconstancy that people have when it comes to system wars in general. The Cube was considered a total failure, and obviously it was on many levels, but it did actually make money, as opposed to the XBox1 which put MS billions (no exaggeration) in the hole. Being #1 in sales is the goal of a shortsighted company. General Motors was #1 in sales and went bankrupt. Were they still "winning" during that time, when they were beating their own world record for largest corporate loss every other quarter?
Apple has "learned nothing"? It seems like they learned how to make shitloads of money while setting the standard to beat on a regular basis. Where the f*ck did all these (quasi-useful) tablet devices come from? I don't remember seeing any of them until the iPad rumors went to full steam. I also don't remember very many phones out there that were basically a buttonless touchscreen. Apple could start selling human feces in a white box tomorrow and even before the sales numbers would come in, MS, Dell, Toshiba, HP, and Sony would have their iPoop competitors half way through development.
Sometimes I wonder if that was the whole idea behind the iPad in the first place. You know that companies like Sony and MS just created entire design departments to ape that gadget as soon as it was announced (before, really) and while its clear that people like the actual iPad, people might not actually give a shit about any cell phone OS based tablet that isn't an actual iPad, so these devisions, in most of these companies, are likely to lose money. Could this have been Apple's plan all along? They create markets all the time, would they intentionally created a useless one just so that their competitors would lose money when they tried to get into it? That would be pretty hilarious, IMO.
Personally, what I want is a tablet Mac, not a giant iPhone.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: nodtveidt on July 29, 2010, 01:36:59 AM
you may be right, at least short term. But Apple has learned nothing from its history; a single format from a single manufacturer, no matter how good, can ever compete against choice
Which was a direct response to my contention that the iPhone will win the sales war, consequently having nothing to do with profits. If we were to use profitability as a determinant, then Android doesn't even have a horse in this race.
Personally, what I want is a tablet Mac, not a giant iPhone.
Have you seen the ModBook (http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook)? It's a slate like the iPad, but it's built on MacBook hardware. Unfortunately, it's stupid expensive.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: ceti alpha on July 29, 2010, 05:06:07 AM
Have you seen the ModBook (http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook)? It's a slate like the iPad, but it's built on MacBook hardware. Unfortunately, it's stupid expensive.
OK, now that actually looks useful. It actually has USB ports and a real operating system, though it is quite expensive. I didn't jizz in my pants when I first saw the iPad like some people, but maybe next years model will offer USB and stylus support. I know you can get a stylus for the iPad, but you can't use it like a stylus on the DS, or like on the ModBook. The Microsoft tablet looked very promising as well, but they jumped ship on the concept.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: hoobs88 on July 29, 2010, 06:00:44 AM
I play Strip Blackjack on my Droid all of the time. There is titty and meat curtains a plenty in the game.
If I can't see a winking pink brownie cake on the iphone app store, I don't wanna use it.
This is why android is far better.
LOL
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 29, 2010, 10:41:29 PM
Quote from: Necromancer
Slate computers have been around for decades. Hell, the iPad isn't even the first Apple slate (see below).
Can we please not say, "slate". I f*cking hate that term.
And yeah, I know tablet PCs and such have been around for some time, but you and I both know that the entire range of mobile OS based tablets that are out now were spawned %80 by the ipad (%20 by the Kindle). A year ago there were no tablets on the market that...that anyone could actually name, basically.
Personally, what I want is a tablet Mac, not a giant iPhone.
Quote
Have you seen the ModBook (http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook)? It's a slate like the iPad, but it's built on MacBook hardware. Unfortunately, it's stupid expensive.
Yeah, its been available for a couple of years now, and honestly, its not actually that expensive. Apple sells $3000 Macbook Pros. I personally don't spend $1800 on a computer. I'd buy an official Apple product that was $1300 or so though.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Necromancer on July 30, 2010, 04:59:36 AM
Can we please not say, "slate". I f*cking hate that term.
I'll continue to use accurate terminology rather than generic terms; "tablet" includes all portable computers with touchscreens, whereas "slate" is limited to tablets without keyboards.
And yeah, I know tablet PCs and such have been around for some time, but you and I both know that the entire range of mobile OS based tablets that are out now were spawned %80 by the ipad (%20 by the Kindle).
That's only true if you limit the "entire range of mobile OS based tablets" to modest slates like the iPad. There's plenty of full featured tablets still available that don't ape the iPad but are rather evolutions of previous models (i.e. - Toughbooks, ThinkPads, LifeBooks, Proteges, etc.). Almost every major PC manufacturer made a tablet years before the iPad's existence, and many of those are still being produced.
A year ago there were no tablets on the market that...that anyone could actually name, basically.
Admittedly, their popularity was limited to a fairly small subset of PC buyers and they didn't have household names (neither will any of the iPad's competitors), but they sold well enough to avoid cancellation. The iPad is anything but original and innovative; the only thing that Apple has created with it is a larger market.
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: blueraven on July 30, 2010, 05:20:32 AM
NEWTON WINS
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: ceti alpha on July 30, 2010, 05:34:35 AM
Admittedly, their popularity was limited to a fairly small subset of PC buyers and they didn't have household names (neither will any of the iPad's competitors), but they sold well enough to avoid cancellation. The iPad is anything but original and innovative; the only thing that Apple has created with it is a larger market.
You can call the iPad a lot of things, but "innovative" is certainly not one of them.
First tablet/slate concept created in the 60s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook
Xerox must be kicking themselves silly that they gave up their graphical interface developments. lol
Title: Re: The next best thing to Console wars... Smartphone wars!
Post by: Opethian on August 02, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Xerox had the ideas in-house, just no foreward thinking people to get make technology useful/marketable to the public.