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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: Tatsujin on October 28, 2010, 01:16:58 PM
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..one important guy at Hudson Soft Japan, which also had something to say how games should be designed and looking today, what would you change or propose to change generally?
And why?
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I'd like to see games lose their plodding and endless tutorials, unskipable movies and dialogs, long load times, slow save points, screens that slowly fade from one thing to the next, multiple copyright notices, and other things that just slow shit down to a lethargic extent.
I miss the days of being able to put press he power button on the NES and be IN GAME in less than 2 seconds.
When playing Tengai Makyo II I can go from the map screen, to a fight, kill 3 monsters, win the fight, and be back walking on the map in less time than it takes for the f*cking Playstation 3 logo to fade on a new game.
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multiple copyright notices
this is probably the most annoying thing waiting to get into the game to load all the f*cking logos/ad/dev/company bumps
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I'm with Zeta on abolishing the pace killers and mandatory hand-holding. Also, too many games are far too easy, what with unlimited continues and save points everywhere; not everybody has ADHD, and winning a game with a bajillion continues and abusing saves isn't really winning.
P.S. - I'd demand that Bazaru de Gozaru 2 - Simian Stumper Surprise! be developed and released immediately.
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Keep the 3542098723459087254309873245 button controls to a minimum. Too many games now a days have this insane learning curve that makes the game more of a chore to play than fun. Keep it simple in the gameplay department. Just because a game is simple to play and pick up doesn't mean it's a boring game.
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I totally agree with Zeta on this. I hate being forced to play through tutorials. If a game requires it, then it is not well-enough designed to begin with... or at least the developers/publishers don't feel that it is.
Most games these days are also too long, they don't know when to end. They need an editor. I guess gamers these days feel that if you pay $60 or so for a game, it needs to be 900 hours long the FIRST TIME THROUGH! Add replayability instead of length. I rather play a good game multiple times than play through a mediocre, overly long game once and forget about it. A game that is around 10 hours is fine by me.
The multiple copyright notices and the such really need to go away as well. The game engine does not need its own splash screen! You do not see a giant, unskippable PANAVISION CAMERAS logo when you watch a movie. Save that shit for the credits, nobody cares. I don't mind a company or developer logo, but it really needs to be skippable. And when I say skippable, I don't mean take 20 seconds to fade out once I hit the START button... I mean it's GONE once I press START. And I shouldn't need to skip each logo/whatever individually. When I hit START I should be taken directly to the title screen. There are no legal reasons why any logos or splash screens need to be shown beforehand. Just put a damn copyright on the title screen. Game studios are far too infatuated with themselves these days.
Also, games these days are trying way too hard to be movies. Be games instead, please.
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No dumbass tutorials. Thats what the manual is for.
No lame box art, the 90s taught us that.
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LOL Retro Gamers...
It's always the same bullshit. A bunch of crusty old bastards complaining about the newer generation and how everything was better in the old days.
And Necromancer, really, complaining about load times and cutscenes and suggesting "we" are the one's with ADHD? Are you for real?
Just play your PC Engines and shut the f*ck up. You make me sick.
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I'd like to see games lose their plodding and endless tutorials, unskipable movies and dialogs, long load times, slow save points, screens that slowly fade from one thing to the next, multiple copyright notices, and other things that just slow shit down to a lethargic extent.
So damn true.
Also, games these days are trying way too hard to be movies. Be games instead, please.
So damn true again.
I don't have a PS3 yet so I don't know how things work there but when I had a working DS, too many games had way too many unskippable startup screens. It's obnoxious as all f*cking hell. I just wanna play the damn game, not watch the logo parade. Ever played the DS version of "Deal or No Deal"? It forces you to endure a one-minute scroll about how the game is just a game and you can't win any real money from it, blah blah blah... fine f*ckers, let me skip it and play the "game" (and I quote game because it's really not much of a game to begin with). When you start up Portrait Of Ruin, you get a number of startup screens but they are all on one screen... the other screen stays blank... it would have been less annoying to double them up to skip the intro time but hey, we all have to know that the game uses Actimagine, right? I mean yeah, waste the screen real estate by just putting up a picture of their logo and leave the other screen blank... great, but I DON'T CARE WHAT CODEC YOU USED. I have a video codec of my own on the DS (it's called EMC: Eponasoft Multimedia Codec) but I don't go blasting splash screens for it in any of my productions and I hope no one else does either... just a simple company logo that is up for only as long as it takes to initialize the filesystem library (which is very quick these days)... then the game is at the title screen (or, in some cases, running the SKIPPABLE intro movie) and you can play right away. That's the way things should be done, dammit!
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Just play your PC Engines
That's what I do.
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I would make sure every game had a sound test.
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A bunch of crusty old bastards complaining about the newer generation and how everything was better in the old days.
You're the only one speaking in such absolutes; who said anything even close to "All new games are teh suck!"? Unskippable cut scenes, inordinately long load times, starter levels, and multiple logo screens are nothing new, and they stunk just as much back in the day as they do now.
And Necromancer, really, complaining about load times and cutscenes and suggesting "we" are the one's with ADHD? Are you for real?
Load times and cutscenes have little to do with ADHD; those two points were in seperate sentences for a reason.
Me not liking load times, mandatory tutorials, and long, unskippable cutscenes has nothing to do with my ability to pay attention and has everything to do with them being boring, especially when you've already seen 'em a dozen times. Note that I'm not saying that they ruin the game, but they certainly don't make it more fun.
My point regarding attention spans relates to unlimited continues and being able to save at will. I'd rather not be able to jsut run through a game, as it removes the sense of achievement and gives little incentive for replay; I'd rather put some time into a game before rushing off to the next shiny bauble.
Just play your PC Engines and shut the f*ck up.
And you can go back to earning your xbox 'achievements' and stop crying about retro gamers on a retro gaming forum.
You make me sick.
You're welcome to leave at any time, chief.
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Two things I hate about games nowadays.The stupid avatar shit,and the silly motion control gimmick.It sucked on the Wii,now Sony and microsoft are trying to copy it.
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LOL Retro Gamers...
It's always the same bullshit.
Troll is failed.
I would make sure every game had a sound test.
YES!
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LOL Retro Gamers...
It's always the same bullshit. A bunch of crusty old bastards complaining about the newer generation and how everything was better in the old days.
And Necromancer, really, complaining about load times and cutscenes and suggesting "we" are the one's with ADHD? Are you for real?
Just play your PC Engines and shut the f*ck up. You make me sick.
Then why are you here? Did you get lost on your way to being a douche on Fighting Street?
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I would make sure every game had a sound test.
All the games I code have a sound test. It's just a must-have feature. :)
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LOL Retro Gamers...
It's always the same bullshit. A bunch of crusty old bastards complaining about the newer generation and how everything was better in the old days.
And Necromancer, really, complaining about load times and cutscenes and suggesting "we" are the one's with ADHD? Are you for real?
Just play your PC Engines and shut the f*ck up. You make me sick.
ROFFELKARTOFFEL
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LOL Retro Gamers...
Air Zonk Avatar. Logic Fail.
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I would make sure every game had a sound test.
All the games I code have a sound test. It's just a must-have feature. :)
Is it really? Damn, now I have to add one to pyramid plunder. #-o
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This is the best thread in eons! :D I agree with everything said, and we even had an epically failed attempt at trolling (maybe this is the undercover Dave Medina? :-k). I will add that the downloadable XBOX Live game Limbo is a perfect example on how games these days should be made. There are no splash screens that I can remember, and no tutorials. In this game dieing is almost mandatory to figuring out what to do, and how.
Every game developer needs to be reading this thread NOW! :twisted:
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Red Dead Redemption proved that rag-time music and a historical theme equals big bucks for game developers!
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I miss the days of being able to put press he power button on the NES and be IN GAME in less than 2 seconds.
I agree with this sentiment entirely and pretty much everything else Zeta mentioned. I like games that don't bog you down in splash/loading/confirmation/cut scene screens. I suppose that's why I'm such a big fan of Arcade games, no messing around there, press 1P Start and you're away and straight into the action.
I still enjoy 'modern' gaming but there are certainly aspects of retro gaming that have been lost and that I miss.
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The worst I waited till game start, was like in burnout on the PSP. I think more than 4 minutes. I was like WTF and I believe I never put that game in again since.
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My girlfriend had this Shotoku Battle game for PSP that look FOREVER to load. The graphics were amazing and the gameplay was as good as any game in the series, but if KOF on Neo CD is the benchmark for excessive loading to gameplay ratio, this took the cake by another %300. Almost a minute to load, and due to the nature of how wangan-style games work you sometimes can win a race less than a minute. Add that to the fact that this is a money hoarding/collecting sort of car game and...you need an AC adaptor to play this game. After a half hour all you have are some new tires for your 180SX and a half dead battery.
What sucks is that it was, aside form this MAJOR issue, a pretty good game. If I ever see it cheap I'm going to buy it. Now that I have a hacked PSP and have seen that ISOed games running from the Memory Stick load WAY faster, it might be actually playable. I played Super Robot Wars MX from the Memory Stick and I know for a fact that I saved hours in load times over the course of the 50 hours or so it takes to finish the thing.
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The worst I waited till game start, was like in burnout on the PSP. I think more than 4 minutes. I was like WTF and I believe I never put that game in again since.
Tats try the PSP version of Metal Slug Anthology, it literally takes an age, first there's all those company logo's you can't skip then it loads the menu, you select your game then it loads again and it takes forever! I think some people have forgotten the key appeal of portable gaming, pick up and play.
I have to agree with the comments made about tutorials, I mean I don't mind a tutorial if it is disguised as a level only dropping hints on how to do things when required but when the game dumps you into a training ground I sigh, loudly. Training levels should be an option presented right after you click 'New Game' not forced upon you ruining your first impressions of the game.
If I was the hudson guy I dunno what I would do, maybe I'd go out and ask gamers what they want which would probably be everything listed in this thread then ensure that all games being published follow at least some of these rules. I'd also beta test every game to death so that the game isn't released with bugs, how many games today come out and there's a patch to fix some fault on day 1?
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I would beta test all new games on this website, and be ashamed of how the new Bonk looks.
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how many games today come out and there's a patch to fix some fault on day 1?
Unfortunately, because of how the industry is structured it's usually out of the hands of the game developers. A publishing company, who provide the huge funds needed to make a game but who don't have a creative ounce of talent, get together with a mass marketing machine and based upon profit projections set a firm date for release. This date must be met, no exceptions, or money is lost. Game devs have no choice but to release the game in whatever state that it is in. The amount of hardware variances in PC's doesn't help either, much easier to develop for a console.