PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: DesmondThe3rd on November 29, 2010, 04:35:36 PM
Title: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: DesmondThe3rd on November 29, 2010, 04:35:36 PM
Alright, since it's the 21th year of the Super Grafx itself I figure I'll move my lips and see it anything meaningful comes out. I was pretty hard on the system but it was a review after all and I'm curious to hear other opinions on this PC Engine II here. Was it released too early? What are your favourite SG games or do you dislike them all? Is it underrated or does it deserve to be bash?
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Necromancer on November 30, 2010, 03:14:17 AM
As much as I love all things Turbob, it's for collectors only; and being the goon that I am, I still want one. As for its library - it's too small and generally not much of a step up from what the plain ol' PCE has to offer. That doesn't mean that it deserves to be bashed, though, as it can still access the entire PCE library; just look at its five (and a half) titles as a bonus.
1941 - great port, awesome tunes, and not available from the competition Aldynes - excellent shmup with detailed graphics, but it doesn't really look any better than the top tier PCE shooters Battle Ace - mediocre into-the-screen shmup; slightly prettier than Afterburner II, but still a yawner Ghouls 'n Ghosts - the best console port of the day (or second to the X68k if you consider that a console) Granzort - decent action with nice backgrounds and lots of unrewarding exploration Darius Plus/Alpha - good shootie but only marginally improved when played on the SG
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: csgx1 on November 30, 2010, 06:02:58 AM
Good job on the review.
Damn, it's been 21 years since the Super Grafx was released? I remember being really excited when one of the EGM magazines had a small bit about the Super Grafx before it came out. From that day I swore I would someday get one.
That day has finally come :D....I bought one this month that is being shipped from Japan. Took me only 21 years to get a Super Grafx...lol.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: pixeljunkie on November 30, 2010, 06:52:45 AM
As much as I love all things Turbob, it's for collectors only; and being the goon that I am, I still want one. As for its library - it's too small and generally not much of a step up from what the plain ol' PCE has to offer. That doesn't mean that it deserves to be bashed, though, as it can still access the entire PCE library; just look at its five (and a half) titles as a bonus.
1941 - great port, awesome tunes, and not available from the competition Aldynes - excellent shmup with detailed graphics, but it doesn't really look any better than the top tier PCE shooters Battle Ace - mediocre into-the-screen shmup; slightly prettier than Afterburner II, but still a yawner Ghouls 'n Ghosts - the best console port of the day (or second to the X68k if you consider that a console) Granzort - decent action with nice backgrounds and lots of unrewarding exploration Darius Plus/Alpha - good shootie but only marginally improved when played on the SG
brilliantly put. I feel the same way. I actually just picked one up with all 5 games [plus Darius Plus] and it only got me wanting a Super CDRom2 to put on it...which I also got. Stupid PCE...taking all my money. But yeah, the games really don't stand out as anything that much better than PCE. Just play Soldier Blade and then try to move to Aldynes. However, I LOVE the color pallet on Aldynes.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Vecanti on November 30, 2010, 01:17:31 PM
Alright, since it's the 21th year of the Super Grafx itself I figure I'll move my lips and see it anything meaningful comes out. I was pretty hard on the system but it was a review after all and I'm curious to hear other opinions on this PC Engine II here. Was it released too early? What are your favourite SG games or do you dislike them all? Is it underrated or does it deserve to be bash? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZK-FGnVyE
Good review. You're very enthusiastic so it was fun to watch. :) You made me realize I need a TurboGrafx shirt!
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Mathius on November 30, 2010, 06:37:36 PM
Ever since seeing that infamous pic in EGM of the vaporware version of Strider for the SGX I have always dreamed of having one. IMO it's one of the all time coolest looking consoles ever to grace the planet. Maybe one day soon I will be lucky enough to own one of these collector's gems.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: SuperDeadite on November 30, 2010, 11:19:37 PM
I love the SuperGrafx. Aldynes is a weird game. The first level is incredibly boring. But the later levels get better and better. Really hard too. The "sticky" level could make someone become an alcoholic.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: DesmondThe3rd on December 01, 2010, 12:46:38 PM
Damn, it's been 21 years since the Super Grafx was released? I remember being really excited when one of the EGM magazines had a small bit about the Super Grafx before it came out. From that day I swore I would someday get one.
That day has finally come :D....I bought one this month that is being shipped from Japan. Took me only 21 years to get a Super Grafx...lol.
Thanks for watching, it was EGM where I first saw it too and I couldn't wait to get it.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: DesmondThe3rd on December 01, 2010, 01:02:24 PM
brilliantly put. I feel the same way. I actually just picked one up with all 5 games [plus Darius Plus] and it only got me wanting a Super CDRom2 to put on it...which I also got. Stupid PCE...taking all my money. But yeah, the games really don't stand out as anything that much better than PCE. Just play Soldier Blade and then try to move to Aldynes. However, I LOVE the color pallet on Aldynes. [/quote]Yeah, buying these Super Grafx goodies really put a hurting on my wallet too but 1941, Aldynes, and Ghouls N' Ghosts show off nicely the powers the system had. Aldynes looks slightly better then Soldier Blade in my opinion but yeah, not by much.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: ceti alpha on December 01, 2010, 01:45:16 PM
I don't think you were particularly hard on the sgx. Not too many here will bash on the short lived system, but I think most of us can agree that NEC did not think things through when marketing the console. It seems that any console in the NEC family with the surname "grafx" had marketing troubles.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: nat on December 01, 2010, 02:01:19 PM
Personally, I think the SuperGrafx should've succeeded the white PCE/CoreGrafx line, which should have been discontinued. The backwards compatibility was already there. I mean, the SGX was just a CoreGrafx with an extra video processor. NEC made a huge mistake by "limping" the system out only to discontinue it. The Duo series should have been based on the SuperGrafx rather than the Cores also.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: rag-time4 on December 01, 2010, 02:43:56 PM
Alright, since it's the 21th year of the Super Grafx itself I figure I'll move my lips and see it anything meaningful comes out. I was pretty hard on the system but it was a review after all and I'm curious to hear other opinions on this PC Engine II here. Was it released too early? What are your favourite SG games or do you dislike them all? Is it underrated or does it deserve to be bash? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZK-FGnVyE
I think that Hudson and NEC could have had more success with teh SuperGrafx if they had invested more in producing more games for it. It's a real shame that they never produced any SuperGrafx CD games....
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: ceti alpha on December 01, 2010, 04:01:57 PM
Personally, I think the SuperGrafx should've succeeded the white PCE/CoreGrafx line, which should have been discontinued. The backwards compatibility was already there. I mean, the SGX was just a CoreGrafx with an extra video processor. NEC made a huge mistake by "limping" the system out only to discontinue it. The Duo series should have been based on the SuperGrafx rather than the Cores also.
That would have been awesome. Maybe it was a cost issue? I guess we'll never know for sure the reasoning behind that decision. One thing is for certain: NEC's North America marketing department would have decided that we don't like awesome platformers and kept Ghouls 'n Ghosts from our shores.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: nat on December 01, 2010, 04:09:44 PM
I can't imagine cost being a big factor. I think we are talking three additional ICs, tops, over what the CoreGrafx series has.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: rag-time4 on December 01, 2010, 04:15:31 PM
I wonder how Street Fighter II' would have looked on SGX as opposed to teh PCE
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: nat on December 01, 2010, 05:19:28 PM
Probably not much different. It might have had an extra layer here or there to match the arcade, but I think the PCE version as it is is pretty damn good for the time. It certainly does more than hold its own against the other contemporary home versions.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: DesmondThe3rd on December 02, 2010, 02:21:47 PM
Personally, I think the SuperGrafx should've succeeded the white PCE/CoreGrafx line, which should have been discontinued. The backwards compatibility was already there. I mean, the SGX was just a CoreGrafx with an extra video processor. NEC made a huge mistake by "limping" the system out only to discontinue it. The Duo series should have been based on the SuperGrafx rather than the Cores also.
I totally agree. The same problem happened to the Atari and their 2600. Their aging technology was too outdated to truly bring the arcade experience home but the sales figures of the older games prevented serious development of the more advance 5200 console. I think a good way to show of the power of the Super Grafx would have been to re-release several popular PC Engine titles like Splatterhouse or Legendary Axe with better visuals. Too bad it's too late for that now I guess.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Mathius on December 02, 2010, 02:31:11 PM
Yeah, the tale of the Super Grafx is a sad one. There was no other console I was more fascinated with in the late 80s, and I am sure I am not alone in feeling that.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: ceti alpha on December 02, 2010, 03:26:16 PM
Yeah, the tale of the Super Grafx is a sad one. There was no other console I was more fascinated with in the late 80s, and I am sure I am not alone in feeling that.
You certainly are not alone there. I remember seeing it discussed in the gaming mags of the day and being totally intrigued. We never got to see the full potential of that machine. As amazing as GnG was on the SGX, Rondo was arguably more impressive and it was on SCD running off the original PCE hardware. Just imagine GnG on SCD, or even the Arcade Card, running off SGX hardware.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Mathius on December 02, 2010, 04:08:01 PM
Yeah, the tale of the Super Grafx is a sad one. There was no other console I was more fascinated with in the late 80s, and I am sure I am not alone in feeling that.
You certainly are not alone there. I remember seeing it discussed in the gaming mags of the day and being totally intrigued. We never got to see the full potential of that machine. As amazing as GnG was on the SGX, Rondo was arguably more impressive and it was on SCD running off the original PCE hardware. Just imagine GnG on SCD, or even the Arcade Card, running off SGX hardware.
I...I can't even begin to fathom the orgasmic possibilities that would have been the Super Grafx Arcade CD2! <<<drooling profusely>>>
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Duo_R on December 02, 2010, 05:52:54 PM
Nat is it possible to mod a coregrafx to supergrafx spec? Do you know what ICs were added?
I can't imagine cost being a big factor. I think we are talking three additional ICs, tops, over what the CoreGrafx series has.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: nat on December 02, 2010, 06:15:21 PM
Not totally, but there is documentation out there on the SGX hardware. I know the SGX has two 16-bit HuC6270A VDCs, where the rest of the -Grafx family has only one. Also, there is a unique chip, the HuC6202 that allows the two VDCs to work cooperatively. The rest of the consoles don't need this as they have only one VDC.
The SGX also has 32KB of work RAM, where the Cores have only 8KB.
That's it in a nutshell, but here's a document that goes into detail on the differences. (http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/txt/sgxtech.txt)
While it's probably possible to mod a Core or Duo to become a SuperGrafx, the real problem is the HuC6202 IC. This was a proprietary chip whose only known use in history was in the SuperGrafx. You see where I'm going with this.... You'd have to butcher a real SuperGrafx to obtain one of these to throw in any sort of modded Core. Sort of defeats the purpose.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: ceti alpha on December 02, 2010, 06:35:43 PM
While it's probably possible to mod a Core or Duo to become a SuperGrafx, the real problem is the HuC6202 IC. This was a proprietary chip whose only known use in history was in the SuperGrafx. You see where I'm going with this.... You'd have to butcher a real SuperGrafx to obtain one of these to throw in any sort of modded Core. Sort of defeats the purpose.
That's what FPGAs are for. If someone really wanted to and had either the skills or the money to get people with the skills, they could have that chip cloned. But at that point why not clone the whole deal. It would be neat if someone decapped all the mystery ICs in the SuperGrafx and Super CDROM2 to then clone it with FPGAs and whatever other support hardware would be needed. I'd really like a SuperGrafx Arcade DUO, wouldn't you? And then some games to go with it.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: rag-time4 on December 16, 2010, 02:08:04 PM
I'd really like a SuperGrafx Arcade DUO, wouldn't you? And then some games to go with it.
Yes, i would like one of those. Question is, what would/should it look like?
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: MottZilla on December 16, 2010, 05:50:39 PM
Preferably I would like it to look almost exactly like the original DUO but with minor changes to tell it apart from the PC-Engine DUO. Or possibly like the DUO but slightly condensed to a smaller foot print.
And while we are at it I'd love for Ghouls 'n' Ghosts and 1941 Counter Attack to be ported to the Arcade CD-ROM format and given sweet remixed music. Not to mention the huge list of other awesome games I'd like to see ported to use the SG and ACD. Not that I would want just a bunch of ports, new original PCE titles utilizing the SG and ACD would be a dream come true. Not that I am an original TG16 fan, but I'm definitely a retrogaming platform fan and if I had known about the TG16/PCE back in the day I would have loved it.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: DesmondThe3rd on January 18, 2011, 11:46:50 PM
Preferably I would like it to look almost exactly like the original DUO but with minor changes to tell it apart from the PC-Engine DUO. Or possibly like the DUO but slightly condensed to a smaller foot print.
And while we are at it I'd love for Ghouls 'n' Ghosts and 1941 Counter Attack to be ported to the Arcade CD-ROM format and given sweet remixed music. Not to mention the huge list of other awesome games I'd like to see ported to use the SG and ACD. Not that I would want just a bunch of ports, new original PCE titles utilizing the SG and ACD would be a dream come true. Not that I am an original TG16 fan, but I'm definitely a retrogaming platform fan and if I had known about the TG16/PCE back in the day I would have loved it.
I would have loved to see more of what the Super Grafx could have been.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: hashiriya1 on January 26, 2011, 09:20:54 AM
I am probably one of the few people in the world who has owned a Super Grafx since its release. I must say, I have always babied it and loved it. Thanks for the review.
Title: Re: My crazy 21th Anniversary Super Grafx Review
Post by: Tatsujin on January 26, 2011, 03:22:42 PM