PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: scuzzo84 on August 22, 2005, 09:35:40 AM
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I just saw a gallery of tg16 games and what stands out is how crisp the games are plus they have nice colors , bright I suppose .....it reminds me of neo geo sorta. Anyone know what I mean?
Look at this
http://nfg.2y.net/games/pce/gallery/
And then look at genesis'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Genesis_Screenshots_Gallery
example:
(http://nfg.2y.net/games/pce/gallery/pcebomberman942.gif) and
(http://nfg.2y.net/games/pce/gallery/pcerayxanber32.gif)
(http://nfg.2y.net/games/pce/gallery/pceninjaspirit3.gif)
(http://nfg.2y.net/games/pce/gallery/pcefinalsoldier.gif)
vs what I remember when I was a kid for genesis
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/MD_Road_Rash.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/MD_Revenge_of_Shinobi.png)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/MD_Altered_Beast.png)
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yes... this is a general trend you'll see when you compare the software on the two consoles. if you go to the forums at www.magicengine.com (http://www.magicengine.com/) and search you'll find some decent threads that discuss or touch upon the vibrant colors on TG-16 / PCE vs. Genesis / MegaDrive's muddy pallette.
There might have been discussions on this board as well.
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so whats the reasoning behind it? Is it because TG16 had better hardware or tg16 people just liked those colors and genesis game developers just prefered those colors?
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Hey, scuzzo. Nice to see you are posting on these boards now!
The reason for it is because the TG16 had better hardware in terms of colors. The TG16 had a larger palette of colors and could display 256 colors on screen at once while the Genesis had a smaller color palette and could only display 64 colors on screen at once. If you do screenshot by screenshot comparisons for games for both consoles, you'll see that the TG16 always looks more colorful and vibrant. In fact, PC Engine FX even shows this with their Lords of Thunder comparison (http://pcenginefx.com/main/pcenginefx_com_-_feature_-_lor1.html), in which the original Lords of Thunder for the Turbo Duo is compared with the Sega CD version. There are probably other sites that compare other games as well, but can't think of any off of the top of my head. I was actually make a big .zip file that compared screenshots of many games once, but deleted it.
You should also hear the sound of the TG16. It can be debatable of what sounds better between the TG16 and the Genesis, but I generally much more prefer the TG16's sound because it's a lot more smooth and crisp compared to the Genesis' loud and trashy sound.
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damn sega genesis POS
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Keranu: that's incorrect about the onscreen colours of the TG16. The TG16 is able to display pretty much its entire range of colours onscreen, remember? :) That's why we have 16 palettes dedicated to background and 16 palettes dedicated to sprites. The SNES is limited to 256 onscreen, but they have a larger pool to draw from...the Genesis and the TG16 share the same 3/3/3 palette scheme but yeah...that horrible 64 colour onscreen limitation REALLY hurt the Genesis compared to its two rival systems. 64 colours versus almost 500...hrm... ;) (as stated in another thread, the PCE's actual onscreen colour count is 481 unique colours, due to the shared index 0 of the background palettes and the transparent index 0 of sprite palettes)
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Oh yeah, I forgot about that :D . Have any officially released games for the TG16/PCE ever actually done that?
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Those are some pretty horrible genesis games to use as examples, try comparing Ristar or Sonic 3 against the Turbo screenshots for a better comparison.
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Hahaha, I was thinking those were terrible examples of what Genesis graphics can do, but those are also great examples to show the dirty look to Genesis graphics.
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Those are some pretty horrible genesis games to use as examples, try comparing Ristar or Sonic 3 against the Turbo screenshots for a better comparison.
ST Dragon, where are you?
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Man it has been a while since I posted....sure am glad that somethings...never change :roll:
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Man it has been a while since I posted....sure am glad that somethings...never change :roll:
Lord cock why the eye rolling?
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i'm also new here since ...
got my first Duo-R since last friday
and i'm enjoying it with every Bit 8)
if forgot to post an the first glorious day that i recieved my First Pc-egine :lol:
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Those are some pretty horrible genesis games to use as examples, try comparing Ristar or Sonic 3 against the Turbo screenshots for a better comparison.
Or Dynamite Headdy, for that matter. That's one of the most colorful games I've ever seen.
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Yeah the Genesis was capable of some very colorful graphics, it just really wasn't until later in the systems life. Compare something like Phantasy Star IV to Phantasy Star II for a HUGE difference in colors.
Also what the Genesis lacked in color, I always felt it made up for in the mad amounts of parallax and sprites that it could handle compared to it's competition. Something like Lightning Force or Ranger X was just mind blowing to me graphically back in the day.
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Yeah the Genesis was capable of some very colorful graphics, it just really wasn't until later in the systems life. Compare something like Phantasy Star IV to Phantasy Star II for a HUGE difference in colors.
Also what the Genesis lacked in color, I always felt it made up for in the mad amounts of parallax and sprites that it could handle compared to it's competition. Something like Lightning Force or Ranger X was just mind blowing to me graphically back in the day.
YUP. And furthermore, I think Genny's/Mega Drive's library of games is amazing. Tons of great stuff.
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Quackshot is one of the best games ever made.
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Lord cock why the eye rolling?
First of all, it's lord_cack, not Lord cock. And second of all...I believe he is referring to the number of Genny-nerds who continue to try to prove that their console is better than the PCE.
GUTS: Any time a console had a specific feature, that feature was often abused...for example, look at how much SNES games abused the hardware rotation/scaling/mosaic effects. :) The Genesis got colourful games late in its life by way of overdithering graphics like mad instead of using solid colour pools like the PCE was able to do...that was the only way games like PS4 were able to look very good. Take a look at them in an emulator without filters of any kind...they look like absolute crap...but on a TV they look awesome. :D
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Man it has been a while since I posted....sure am glad that somethings...never change :roll:
Lord cock why the eye rolling?
hehe...wow you know I have never seen anyone make that crack on my screen name.... :roll: ....the eyes were being rolled to denote the sarcasm in my own comment....not to make a suggestion that I in anyway think the thread is somehow....stupid...for lack of a better word. We don't need another "Time Killer" here so lets all just lighten up...and have some fun....
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GUTS: Any time a console had a specific feature, that feature was often abused...for example, look at how much SNES games abused the hardware rotation/scaling/mosaic effects. :) The Genesis got colourful games late in its life by way of overdithering graphics like mad instead of using solid colour pools like the PCE was able to do...that was the only way games like PS4 were able to look very good. Take a look at them in an emulator without filters of any kind...they look like absolute crap...but on a TV they look awesome. :D
I agree. But I think that what people ALWAYS forget about when one of these discussions come up is this....you look at the quality of the developers that were producing games for the Genesis and the SNES and you will see where the real line is drawn on this issue.
You give the PCE half the developers (and time with the hardware) that the SNES had and you would see what that machine could do. I mean the games that were made for the PCE/Duo NEVER to my knowledge ever really stretched that system to its limit....I don't think you can make that statement about the other two systems. Because I am quite sure that games like Dynamite Headdy and Donkey Kong Country 3 both pushed the Genesis and the SNES respectivly to there upper graphical limits.
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There were very few games on the PCE that pushed the limits of its capabilities. Coders today have had better luck with this though...Chris Covell and David Shadoff being two of the best at it.
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That's an interesting point about the PCE never being pushed to the max, it seems like every console except the PCE has at least one HOLY SHIT game that blows your mind by stretching the console beyond what you thought was possible. I can't think of one time I've ever been blown away by the PCE graphically, but I can think of quite a few Genesis & SNES games that really dominate the hardware. I'm not saying that I'm not impressed by the PCE since I think it pumps out some awesome graphics, I'm just saying that I've never been amazed by something that I didn't think the PCE was capable of.
EDIT* Actually the whole last level of Blood Gear was pretty amazing for the gigantic end boss and amount of sprites on screen, and Legend of Xanadu II is incredible looking with it's TONS of parallax.
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Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, Legend of Xanadu games, and Dracula X do some limit pushin'.
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GoT and LoT both do some pretty cool parallax. :) Also, take a look at Violent Soldier/Sinistron in the first level...good parallax usage there too. But in particular...LoT...how did they do some of that? Inside the volcano in particular...
Dracula X doesn't push the hardware as much as you'd think it does really...it just LOOKS great. It's a great example of what a high-end company can produce. It does use a few nifty tricks though.
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I really liked Gate of Thunder's graphics. I thought the backgrounds in Gate of Thunder were even cooler than Lords of Thunder's.
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All those games have very impressive graphics. There are many others as well with very impressive graphics for the PCE....Sapphire, Spriggan Mark 2 (I thought so...large bosses at anyrate)....but are any of these titles the "Donkey Kong Country" of the PCE....I don't think so. But I am not sure of the hardware exactly it just doesn'st seem to me that they would be. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Can't believe I forgot Sapphire. That's doing some of the most "limit pushing" action for the system, although it's probably very possible to do something even better than that, because of the 480 colors at once thing as Nod has mentioned many times.
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This has been mentioned on a dedicated thread before but don't forget very good version of Streetfighter 2 for the PCE.
Graphically it was also most true to the arcade version.
The games for the megadrive that i remember for their graphics were Alien Soldier, Thunderforce 3 and 4, Flink (not well known, great graphics but not that colorful) and Strider.
Strider on megadrive has been beaten by the X68000 version and would propably be the better on the supergrafx if they hadn't canceled the project.
The PCE CD version of Wonder Boy in Monster Lair looks a bit better then the Megadrive version to i found out recently.
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As far as I can think of, every game for both Genesis and TG16 always tend to look better on the TG16. Gameplay can be debatable depending on which game, of course.
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Sega Genesis/Megadrive games:
Ristar:
(http://emultest.free.fr/screenshot/mdristar1.png) (http://emultest.free.fr/screenshot/mdristar2.png)
Gunstar Heroes:
(http://emultest.free.fr/screenshot/mdgunstarheroes.png) (http://www.sega-16.com/Gunstar Heroes pics/Gunstar Heroes.gif)
Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen:
(http://www.sega-16.com/Yu Yu Hakusho pics/7.gif) (http://www.sega-16.com/Yu Yu Hakusho pics/8.gif)
Crusader of Centy:
(http://www.sega-16.com/Crusader of Centy pics/2.png) (http://www.sega-16.com/Crusader of Centy pics/8.gif)
See next time.
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I think that some are mistaking what was released for what a system could do. I may be wrong.
Sure what was released if measured up side by side would give you the impression that the Genesis/Mega Drive had better looking games (unless of course you are looking at cross platform games like Street Fighter II, Lord of Thunder, Fatal Fury Special ect. then the quality is fairly clear). Not to mention the fact that the Genesis/Mega Drive had hundreds, I dare say, more titles and also crossed more genres than the Turbo/PCE. That was partially due to the marketing of the Turbo/PCE as a platform (Unfortunately.)
But, as mentioned a couple of posts earlier by someone (oh wait...who was it...hmmm :shock: :twisted: ), the Turbo/PCE was barely ever stretched to its limits. Now this point is contestable but I think if you look at the games available for the Turbo/PCE amd the systems specs, you can see that far greater potential lies in our little box. But, history is history and it cannot be changed.....wait...can it....
Go over to Frozen Utopia.com
http://frozenutopia.nodtveidt.net/index.html
Get ready for the MSR release, check out some of the stuff we have posted in the forums, or just discuss PCE related topics
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I think we need more examples of the same games on the system to compare them ( if their are).
Not sure it is fair to compare Wonder Boy in Monster Lair PCE CD to the Genesis (cartridge) version.
But i assume everyone agrees on Street fighter 2 on the PCE to be the best version.
So common what console is gonna score the second point?
Oh and don't forget comparisons with the SNES.
1) 1 point for PCE, street fighter 2.
Cheers.
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well I know there is a thread around here somewhere that just recently went through all the ACD games Fatal Fury 2/Special and World Heroes 2 and I can say that those 2 games are very much so at there best on PCE.
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That thread didn't mentioned the neo geo then or did it?
I have a few fatal fury's on the neo geo aes and cd and it would be hard to believe they were beaten by the nec system.
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some good points have been made about both systems. but i believe the caller who pointed out turbo grafx's lack of third party support and the fact noone ever took turbo to it's limit was definately on point.
the turbo grafx or turbo duo, for instance, needed a certain company to make a classic game(s) for the console, much like square and rare did for nintendo. hudson soft made the beautiful bomberman games, but i believe the turbo grafx, and listen to that name-TURBO-was a system perfect and built for shooters. therefore, it would have taken a certain third party company capable of pushing turbo grafx to its limit and i feel sunsoft would have been the ideal company to do just that.
blaster master would have been the perfect game for turbo grafx. nec obviously wanted a game like that, otherwise they wouldn't have made the similar kieth courage.
also, like turbo garfx in the united states, sunsoft made games which were superior, but for some reason underground. that is why the underground radioactive blasting hover vehicle would have been perfect for turbo. it was obviously not the best fit with segs. think about how sunsoft would have put all those colors to work.
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That thread didn't mentioned the neo geo then or did it?
I have a few fatal fury's on the neo geo aes and cd and it would be hard to believe they were beaten by the nec system.
there were Neo Geo titles converted on to the genesis. They had Fatal Fury II and CD had Fatal Fury Special.
And the NEC system titles (Fatal Fury Special, World Heroes 2) are better than all other home conversions.
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Weren't those done by a different company that Takara though on the PCE? I remember Takara released some pretty shoddy ports back in the day, although Fatal Fury 2 on Genesis was pretty good. Takara was known for half assing the graphics pretty badly in their ports, so the Genesis and SNES versions of those games wouldn't stack up to a PCE port if it had some effort put into it.
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i havent seen the fatul fury ports to PCE, im guessing they are much better than the snes and genesis shiznits?
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i havent seen the fatul fury ports to PCE, im guessing they are much better than the snes and genesis shiznits?
They were, well I can atleast say that Fatal Fury Special is (as well as World Heroes 2 and I would say Art of Fighting except that game pretty much stinks on all platformers but the PCE version is best). I mean there are some areas where it is missing somethings and some where it isn't but overall it is a much better representation of the Arcade game than that of the other home versions.