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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Joe Redifer on March 10, 2011, 08:32:54 PM
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I'm getting various reports of a 8.4 or even an 8.9 magnitude quake that hit northeastern Japan. A resulting tsunami has been sweeping up dirt, debris, cars, houses, fires and moving them across the land. It is amazing, and not in a good way. I hope our Japanese friends are OK.
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i'm ok thanks :) read the shouter as long it's still there :)
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Nothing where I live, just a few tremors.
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I too hope everyone is ok.
Japan seems very well equipped for earthquakes. I was there in 2007 on vacation, and there was an earthquake that was "worse" than the one in Haiti. My hotel barely even moved.
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Where I was in central Tokyo everything is OK. Pretty crazy shakes, but no major damage. I hope nobody here lives closer to the coast...
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Thank god. Kaku said it was the worst quake in Japan's history meaning worse than the great Kanto quake. I guess modern engineering wins the day. Not to be glib but, I was having Nightmare visions of Super Patato smashed flat.
I am so glad everyone is alright on the board (so far)
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I hope all the OBEYers are okay and that they (the gov't) get the nuclear plants under control before any giant monsters are created.
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My thoughts and prayers are with any of you hard hit by this devastating quake. Glad to know those who have already posted are fine. I am glad that Tokyo seems to have been spared by the worst of it. I do worry though for our gaming giants like Miyamoto, etc. though. I pray that they are fine.
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Just watching it on TV. Terrible stuff.
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Glad u guys are ok
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last time I watched the news about this whole story was when I was on my 15 minute break at work.
I understand the tsunami spread toward the West Coast US. I know Hawaii took quite a hit, but what about on the mainland?
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Some people at work are located in Japan offices, and they said shit was a MESS. The buildings were still wobbling 30 minutes later.... though they all said the buildings they were in , its a side to side earth quake and the buildings were designed to cope with it... so there was lots of wobbling, and things falling, but they were OK after....
still, not every part of the earthquake area was this lucky, and that sucks.
San Fran got hit by like a 10 foot tall wave or something I heard, and Im sure all they did was get high and surf. :)
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The great highway in SF along the beach, near Tatsujin's 'Cliff House', was shut down, but nothing serious happened in SF. Santa Cruz and Crescent City were hit harder. I heard about some boats in Santa Cruz and a few people being swept out to sea, 4 of 5 were rescued from what I heard.
I sent messages to takuya of Hit-Japan, who operates out of Hokkaido, where there were a lot of fires, but he said he's doing ok, as is Toshi of Japan Toys and Video Games.
We haven't heard from ccovell have we? Hope he and his family are ok.
I hope all the OBEYers are okay and that they (the gov't) get the nuclear plants under control before any giant monsters are created.
As of right now (10:17pm PST) authorities are still working on cooling 4-5 nuclear plants!!
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(http://media.riemurasia.net/albumit/mmedia/4x/gg/w9bm/253758/794541220.jpg)
(http://www.thegforum.ch/images/smilies/loch.gif)(http://www.thegforum.ch/images/smilies/loch.gif)(http://www.thegforum.ch/images/smilies/loch.gif)
#-o :| :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Is this for real !?
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhxo52GdNZ1qzqt12o1_500.jpg)
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The stupidity of some people is painful.
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It frustrates me greatly that some people have adopted such a hateful view. I guess I would have hoped that my generation would not still be holding a grudge over something that happened during our grandparents era. Celebrating a natural disaster as "payback" for something that happened 70 years ago... despicable. Believe me, Japan already got their "payback" during the war. The American retaliation at the end of the war should have been more than enough to satisfy these bigot's sick desires for revenge. I hope our friends in Japan don't get the impression that many Americans hold those views, because we don't.
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damn, from tomorrow on almost every household as well officbuildings in kanto region will have up to 6 hours power down for at least one month.
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Is this for real !?
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhxo52GdNZ1qzqt12o1_500.jpg)
I hope that reactor stays cooled down.
Expected Effects of Acute
Whole-Body Radiation Doses
Acute Dose
(rads) Probable Effect
0 - 50 No obvious effect, except possibly minor blood changes.
80 - 120 Vomiting and nausea for about 1 day in 5 to 10 percent of exposed personnel. Fatigue but no serious disability.
130 - 170 Vomiting and nausea for about 1 day, followed by other symptoms of radiation sickness in about 25 percent of personnel. No deaths anticipated.
180 - 220 Vomiting and nausea for about 1 day followed by other symptoms of radiation sickness in about 50 percent of personnel. No deaths anticipated.
270 - 330 Vomiting and nausea in nearly all personnel on first day, followed by other symptoms of radiation sickness. About 20 percent deaths within 2 to 6 weeks after exposure; survivors convalescent for about 3 months.
400 - 500 Vomiting and nausea in all personnel on first day, followed by other symptoms of radiation sickness. About 50 percent deaths within 1 month; survivors convalescent for about 6 months.
550 - 750 Vomiting and nausea in all personnel within 4 hours from exposure, followed by other symptoms of radiation sickness. Up to 100 percent deaths; few survivors convalescent for about 6 months.
1000 Vomiting and nausea in all personnel within 1 to 2 hours. Probably no survivors from radiation sickness.
5000 Incapacitation almost immediately. All personnel will be fatalities within 1 week
And I can't believe those ignorant people about the harbour bombings
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So if that chart is for real, all americans gonna to die. Because 750 rads are deadly for sure.
So that is a clear answer to the accuracy of that chart. BBS!
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Is this for real !?
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhxo52GdNZ1qzqt12o1_500.jpg)
I've read on fark.com and 4chan that it's faked. RADs are absorbed radiation dose, a map like that wouldn't use RADs.
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Holy cow. That FB compilation is insane. And like BMW said, none of those nitwits were even alive to remember it.
Anyway, excuse me, but I'm going to go into a major rant now....
The nuclear power plant situation is damn scary. It's annoying how they call it a "partial meltdown." Either the reactor is melting down or it's not. The fact that only one or two of the three reactors are melting down doesn't make it partial. Everyone insists that this shit is safe and it's complete bullshit. I have a hell of a lot of more confidence in Japan's infrastructure than what we have in the States and their plant wasn't even severely damaged in the quake, it just lost power and back-up power and...oh, oops, the reactor is melting down. We still have no idea what the f*ck to do with the waste and all of these nuke plants keep getting older and older. The only solution is to keep the shit in water and surround it with new layers of concrete, which is basically a duct tape solution.
Here in Minneapolis, budgets are cut for everything so the rich can get tax breaks while the I35 bridge collapses ten blocks from my house. The roads are disintegrating with thousands of new potholes every year, street pipes are exploding in New York, and the other Mississippi bridge near my house is closed for repairs for 8 months because they realized the supports were badly corroded on a bridge that's only 30 years old. Meanwhile, I'm supposed to trust the infrastructure and budgeting decisions of the penny-pinching, green-washing, increasing-deregulated private utility company (Xcel) when they say that their nuclear waste is perfecting safe sitting in what were intended to be temporary dry-storage casks at nearby Prairie Island - a 500-year flood plain in the middle of the Mississippi river at the headwaters of the bread basket of the nation...and, coincidentally enough, an Indian reservation who the utility company _lied_ to and told they were only building a steam plant back when the thing was built. f*ck. Nuclear power is the stupidest f*cking thing humans have ever done.
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Holy cow. That FB compilation is insane. And like BMW said, none of those nitwits were even alive to remember it.
Anyway, excuse me, but I'm going to go into a major rant now....
The nuclear power plant situation is damn scary. It's annoying how they call it a "partial meltdown." Either the reactor is melting down or it's not. The fact that only one or two of the three reactors are melting down doesn't make it partial. Everyone insists that this shit is safe and it's complete bullshit. I have a hell of a lot of more confidence in Japan's infrastructure than what we have in the States and their plant wasn't even severely damaged in the quake, it just lost power and back-up power and...oh, oops, the reactor is melting down. We still have no idea what the f*ck to do with the waste and all of these nuke plants keep getting older and older. The only solution is to keep the shit in water and surround it with new layers of concrete, which is basically a duct tape solution.
Here in Minneapolis, budgets are cut for everything so the rich can get tax breaks while the I35 bridge collapses ten blocks from my house. The roads are disintegrating with thousands of new potholes every year, street pipes are exploding in New York, and the other Mississippi bridge near my house is closed for repairs for 8 months because they realized the supports were badly corroded on a bridge that's only 30 years old. Meanwhile, I'm supposed to trust the budgeting decisions and technology of the penny-pinching, green-washing, increasing deregulated utility company (Xcel) when they say that their nuclear waste is perfecting safe sitting in what were intended to be temporary dry storage casks at Prairie Island - a 500-year flood plain in the middle of the Mississippi river at the headwaters of the bread basket of the nation...and, coincidentally enough, an Indian reservation who the utility company _lied_ to and told they were only building a steam plant back when the thing was built. f*ck. Nuclear power is the stupidest f*cking thing humans have ever done.
I myself am a proponent of Nuclear power as a solution to energy needs for the next 50 to 100 years, or until renewables can been implemented on a large scale. I'm not sure which is worse, the waste / effects from Nuclear power or the waste / effects from continuing to burn so much coal for power needs. The newer breeder reactor systems use much less fuel (and create much less waste!) There are risks with Nuclear power, but when properly managed, the risks are very small. This earthquake was one of the most powerful on record. It is amazing that the plant didn't sustain more damage than it did!
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Thanks for ignoring my rant f-bombs and writing a civil response. I realize people have other opinions and, believe it or not, I respect that.
The risks of nuclear power aren't minimal. Maybe they are at first, but even newly-built plants will start to crumble someday. There's absolutely no storage solution and, even if we find one, that raises the risk of transporting the mess. I would choose asthma, mercury fishing advisories, and the environmental damage of strip mining coal and mountaintop removal before burdening our descendants with waste that will never be safe. We're ready for wind power but we need to invest in it. Unfortunately, it keeps getting compared to the cost of a cheap, hundred-year-old technology with an established infrastructure - coal.
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Thanks for ignoring my rant f-bombs and writing a civil response. I realize people have other opinions and, believe it or not, I respect that.
The risks of nuclear power aren't minimal. Maybe they are at first, but even newly-built plants will start to crumble someday. There's absolutely no storage solution and, even if we find one, that raises the risk of transporting the mess. I would choose asthma, mercury fishing advisories, and the environmental damage of strip mining coal and mountaintop removal before burdening our descendants with waste that will never be safe. We're ready for wind power but we need to invest in it. Unfortunately, it keeps getting compared to the cost of a cheap, hundred-year-old technology with an established infrastructure - coal.
Well we both agree on one thing.... coal is NOT the answer :P I just dont see another alternative to Nuclear right now that can replace coal as the primary source of large amounts of electricity. Wind, solar, tidal, geothermal etc CAN do it, but it does require an investment that, unfortunately, most people are not willing to make.
And civility rules! :twisted:
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Well we both agree on one thing.... coal is NOT the answer :P
Yep. With all the "clean coal" PR going around it's funny how people forget that you're still strip mining coal! #-o
And civility rules! :twisted:
Word. :)
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it also fails to mention the time period. 750 rads a second? a minute? an hour? a day? a year?
there are very significant differences between those, and this map assumes there isn't. BS.
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In response to the image Tats posted of morons saying this earthquake is revenge for Pearl Harbor, I'd just like to say that if there was ever any revenge to be had, it has been done and then some when we dropped atomic bombs on two of their cities destroying a very large civilian population. These idiots seem to have forgotten that. How much revenge to they think we need for having a military base attacked? Geesh! Those are the people whom I would not miss if THEY died in an earthquake (or in any other fashion).
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Man thats sad. First thing I wondered was if Tats was ok. This is real upsetting to me and should be to everyone. So when people died 10 miles away from my house during 911, they did what to whome to deserve to die? Its not chess. These people are the reasons why we are looked at the way we are. Shame.
As far as the radiation coming to the united states. When we dropped the 2 bombs on Japan......wasnt the magnatude of radiation far more than the nuclear facility? What is the real probability?
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it also fails to mention the time period. 750 rads a second? a minute? an hour? a day? a year?
there are very significant differences between those, and this map assumes there isn't. BS.
Map is fake.
http://www.blogotariat.com/node/211958
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Map is fake.
..and some of his statement as well:
The death toll may climb to over 30,000 within days, and top 100,000 within a few weeks.
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There are risks with Nuclear power, but when properly managed, the risks are very small.
Yeah, the problem is that the shit won't be properly managed. The job of any corporation is to make money, and they will skimp on anything in the impossible quest to increase profits every year for eternity. The more time passes between tragedies (nuclear, coal mining or oil spill related) the more complacent they will be. The risks are simply way way too high, and if anything good will come of this tragedy in Japan (which might yet get much worse still) I hope it will be the end of the foolish nuclear vision forever.
The future is solar. Period. All energy on Earth, or any other planet, all the coal, all the fission material, all of it, ultimately came from the sun or from prehistoric exploding supernovea. Obviously solar tech isn't where it needs to be to take over coal, but it f*cking would be if we spent as much money on it as we do on nuclear. The reason we haven't is because solar is free, and wide implementation of it would massively upset the existing power structure of energy companies. Many people in the world wouldn't even need any power company at all once the tech got better (more efficient cels, better batteries, and more efficient home electronics in general). Obviously the power company cartels can't have that. They love nuclear power because its something that only they are huge enough to be able to pull off.
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solar? do you know the required size you need to replace just one reactor? and are you aware of the required energy and resources to build such a panel?
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I am a huge proponent of solar and wind technology. I just don't see it being able to replace fossil sources on the scale that nuclear can. (Yet) I would love to see the world powered by primarily renewable sources though. Modern reactor design is leaps and bounds beyond the reactors of the 60s and 70s (like the LWR reactors of the Fukushima plant) I see nuclear as being the only non fossil source that can produce a large enough amount of electricity with consistency. I wont ignore the issue of spent fuel and waste but again modern breeder reactor desisgns consume much less reactor fuel and also output much less waste.
If anything, this tradgedy in Japan should make a push for the modernization of nuclear power facilities.
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solar? do you know the required size you need to replace just one reactor? and are you aware of the required energy and resources to build such a panel?
Sure, its totally impossible at the moment, but my government spends four times as much money on nuclear research as it does on all other renewable resources combined. If it were a priority, it would happen. There is far more than enough free and totally safe solar energy hitting the planet 24/7 to power everything we need, and the sun has four billion years left before it runs out. Best of all, solar has zero effect on global warming, and can't meltdown, so you don't have to worry about trusting companies like Exxon, or BP or whoever to not cheap out and kill us.
"This plant is totally safe...unless an earthquake hits in which case we're totally f*cked." "Roll the dice" is not an acceptable model, IMO, when alternatives exist.
I read a great article about a year ago where a guy who lives on Lake Michigan managed to build his house totally off the grid. If you've ever been to lake Michigan you know its pretty damn gloomy weather-wise (looks like Virginia Beach in Februray, most of the time) so if he can do it then so can everyone else. The only problem, of course, is that it took tens of thousands of dollars of his own money to do it, and most people don't have that kind of cash.
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Best of all, solar has zero effect on global warming, and can't meltdown, so you don't have to worry about trusting companies like Exxon, or BP or whoever to not cheap out and kill us.
Yeah, you just have to worry about all the heavy metals required to build the panels and batteries and their regular replacement/disposal.
I read a great article about a year ago where a guy who lives on Lake Michigan managed to build his house totally off the grid. If you've ever been to lake Michigan you know its pretty damn gloomy weather-wise (looks like Virginia Beach in Februray, most of the time) so if he can do it then so can everyone else. The only problem, of course, is that it took tens of thousands of dollars of his own money to do it, and most people don't have that kind of cash.
If he's like most 'off the grid' people he's using a diesel generator for 1/4 of his energy needs, meaning that he's not helping the environment one bit.
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Yeah, you just have to worry about all the heavy metals required to build the panels and batteries and their regular replacement/disposal.
Pu-lease. Like that shit rates compared to impending nuclear meltdown. Jeezus, don't pretend you actually think that.
Besides, this is, again, "current tech" thinking that prevents future tech from flourishing like it should. You don't even necessarily need photovoltaic cels to use "solar" power in some cases. For example, virtually everyone in Arizona, Nevada, etc owns a gas or electric hot water heater and they really don't need to. There are old school, low tech water heating methods that could be use that would save that electricity for other uses.
I read a great article about a year ago where a guy who lives on Lake Michigan managed to build his house totally off the grid. If you've ever been to lake Michigan you know its pretty damn gloomy weather-wise (looks like Virginia Beach in Februray, most of the time) so if he can do it then so can everyone else. The only problem, of course, is that it took tens of thousands of dollars of his own money to do it, and most people don't have that kind of cash.
If he's like most 'off the grid' people he's using a diesel generator for 1/4 of his energy needs, meaning that he's not helping the environment one bit.
I found the house (I think this is the one). He has a wood burning stove for %20 of his heating needs. Not perfect, but not that bad either. If this house was in, say, North Carolina, he wouldn't need that extra %20 at all. Keep in mind that Michigan is colder than f*ck, with many days in the Winter below zero F, and not all that much sun. The lakes...if you haven't seen them, they are almost indistinguishable from oceans, you get tons of wind and even less sun.
http://www.buildinggreen.com/hpb/overview.cfm?projectId=559
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...if anything good will come of this tragedy in Japan (which might yet get much worse still) I hope it will be the end of the foolish nuclear vision forever.
I hope so, but I doubt it. The turmoil in the Middle East has already been all the excuse needed to forget about Deepwater Horizon and approve a new drilling operation in the Gulf. Japan's meltdown will probably be forgotten just as fast.
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Pu-lease. Like that shit rates compared to impending nuclear meltdown. Jeezus, don't pretend you actually think that.
Nope, but neither am I so naive to believe that renewable energy is all unicorns and rainbows.
Besides, this is, again, "current tech" thinking that prevents future tech from flourishing like it should.
Yeah, I hate it when common sense and practicality get in the way. Even if battery energy density (which despite the evil power companies has increased at a healthy rate due to the demands of the electronics industry) was ten times greater and everything plugged in was ten times more energy efficient, the amount of batteries needed to ensure uninterrupted power would easily deplete all known supplies of raw materials.
By the way, did you hear about the guy in Wyoming that invented a carburetor that would let his car get 200mpg? It's true.
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Here's the thing: Nuclear reactors MIGHT melt down in a very-worst-case scenario. However with solar energy, batteries always MUST be replaced and disposing of batteries does not bode well for the environment. It's like the compact fluorescent light bulb. Uses less energy, yes, but causes way more environmental damage when you throw them away because they contain mercury. Now CFLs have a tiny little thing written on the box that says "please recycle". How many people are going to do that? Not very many when you discover what a pain it is to do it. Solar isn't the way to go. You shouldn't need to supplement it with ANYTHING no matter where you live.
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Best of all, solar has zero effect on global warming,
This I've heard is not entirely true. The dark surface does keep heat on earth which else would have been rejected back to space. big panel arrays in deserts etc. will cause a global warming.
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Here's the thing: Nuclear reactors MIGHT melt down in a very-worst-case scenario. However with solar energy, batteries always MUST be replaced and disposing of batteries does not bode well for the environment. It's like the compact fluorescent light bulb. Uses less energy, yes, but causes way more environmental damage when you throw them away because they contain mercury. Now CFLs have a tiny little thing written on the box that says "please recycle". How many people are going to do that? Not very many when you discover what a pain it is to do it. Solar isn't the way to go. You shouldn't need to supplement it with ANYTHING no matter where you live.
Sorta off topic.. but I have worked in the sign industry for well over 12 years. We have been thowing out our fluorecent bulbs(lamps) in the garbage for ever. Some of the bigger companies that I've worked for did a lot of re-lamps and we had days were we had 100+ lamps we smashed and threw in our dumpsters. They did have a place to recycle them(for many years) but we would have to pay a company to dispose of them. SO..... they all end up in landfills. I assume the same will happen with all these consumers buying CFL's. 90% will go in the trash. I don't have CFL's in my house for that reason.. I switched them all to Halogen.
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The same people who mention Pearl Harbor are probably are the same people that talk bad about reparations. Ironic?
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And where do you get this information from? I am of the opinion that people should not be paid money just because other people waaay in the past were slaves.
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These days in Japan solar is used as a supplemental power source. All of the housing companies offer houses with solar arrays built in. The goal is not to go off-grid, but merely to help during peak energy usage. For example: In the summer during the day, the solar energy will offset the air conditioner most people are using.
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Got this from reddit. Love it!
(http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/r81co.png)
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Here's the thing: Nuclear reactors MIGHT melt down in a very-worst-case scenario.
Yeah, not really. Petroleum harvesting is relatively safe too, but there is always going to be some drunk captain somewhere running his shit aground, or some company building totally unsafe rigs that explode, etc. The same is true of nuclear power. As long as its in use, once in a while you're going to get a meltdown. When it does there is always going to be an explanation/excuse/whatever (commies suck, the industrial hygienists were corrupt teamsters who have since been replaced, earthquake, etc) and some of them are pretty good...but in the end a meltdown is a meltdown and there is no excuse or explanation that can de-radiate land, bring people back to life, or un-mutate huge amounts of wildlife. Sure these reactors in partial meltdown now are "old", but today's state of the art plant is tomorrow's relic, and they'll use the same lame excuse when that one melts down in 2050.
Batteries in the landfill...it just doesn't rate...at all. Its not even in the same universe as a nuclear meltdown. Its...completely f*cking dishonest/insane to even claim that it is. People don't just pack up overnight and run in fear, abandoning their homes (possibly forever) because there is some lead in the ground.
The stakes are just way WAY too high. A solution to global warming? f*ck, its about the only thing I can think of that is nearly as dangerous as global warming itself short of actual nuclear war.
Nuke power is one of those things that people trust because its been around so long, like the family shotgun or birth control pills, but if the shit were invented today, and all the facts laid out before they went into use, only crazy people would advocate the shit.
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The ONLY solution to global warming is time. Even if every single person stopped using all forms of energy RIGHT NOW the reduction in all of that nasty stuff people claim cause global warming would be very minimal for quite a very long period of time. The planet's temperatures take a loooong time to significantly change. Global warming has happened before and it will happen again. That's what happens when you are a planet like Earth. Only man is arrogant enough to think he has control over mother nature.
Birth control pills are pretty damn effective, btw. So are shotguns.
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Batteries in the landfill...it just doesn't rate...at all. Its not even in the same universe as a nuclear meltdown. Its...completely f*cking dishonest/insane to even claim that it is.
Nobody is saying that the risks are the same, but it's no less dishonest to claim that renewable energy is 100% safe. There are no free lunches.
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It's like the compact fluorescent light bulb. Uses less energy, yes, but causes way more environmental damage when you throw them away because they contain mercury.
I used to think CFL's were pretty stupid for this reason. I then talked with both a CFL sales rep at an expo and the energy expert an environmental non-profit where I used to work and they both stated that the amount of mercury contained in a CFL is less than the amount of mercury created to power incandescent bulbs for the life of a CFL...so, as long as coal-burning power plants continue to provide the majority of our electricity, CFL's will reduce our mercury footprint.
EDIT: That said, it still sucks when I reach for my alarm clock and knock my lamp over, breaking a CFL and having a not only a pile of broken glass but a little toxic waste zone next to my bed. :cry:
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Get yourself a good LED bulb and you'll save money in the long run. Just make sure you check the lumen output, as many of 'em put out so little they're kinda worthless.
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LED bulbs will eventually be the future, but they're not quite there yet. For one, they need to become more easily dimable. Nothing dims quite like an incandescent. Halogens come close, but they can buzzzzzz.
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In terms of lumens per watt, halogens aren't much better than a standard incandescent bulb, at least not compared to a good fluorescent or LED lamp.
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LED bulbs will eventually be the future, but they're not quite there yet. For one, they need to become more easily dimable. Nothing dims quite like an incandescent. Halogens come close, but they can buzzzzzz.
other thing is that halogen light bulbs have some health issues.. I think since they been around people have been experiencing dry skin conditions, eczema, headaches... although I'm too tired and sad to do any googling right now..
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I think it doesn't take so much more longer from now till we all use LED bulbs, the stores here are already full of em. Old wolfram edison bulbs are already almost dissapeared.
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Yeah. Did you get any LEDs for your house yet Tats?
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I'm glad that we can set aside our differences and talk about light bulbs. PCEFX rules.
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Well it's kinda related to the whole power discussion. In the US, for example, the population has risen a lot in the last 20 years but the power usage has stayed relatively the same. It's thanks to more efficient stuff like LED lightbulbs :D
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Our house is almost entirely CFLs. LED bulbs are too expensive here just yet.