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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: Arkhan on October 05, 2011, 06:43:15 AM
Title: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 05, 2011, 06:43:15 AM
HuCard releases, or CD releases?
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Necromancer on October 05, 2011, 06:53:00 AM
Unless you can make 'finished' hueys, I vote discs; exposed components and traces don't just look ghetto, they're susceptible to damage too. Hell, even if you can make nice looking hueys, it's probably best to go with discs to keep the costs down and to have a proper case.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 05, 2011, 07:03:57 AM
Both. First, we make a new system card that doubles the system RAM as well as implements ACD RAM. Then, we make CDs that take advantage of all the extra storage. f*ck yeah.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 05, 2011, 07:18:45 AM
Well, I was mostly curious about it to see if its worth following a few leads on getting real hueys made.
If there is not enough interest, it's not really worth the effort to go for the complete, plastic covered ones. Too pricey if noone wants them.
I guess what I am wondering really is, are there that many people interested in new PCE games who DONT have a means to play CD?
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: thesteve on October 05, 2011, 07:20:24 AM
i can play cd, but id love to be able to play on the TE as well
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 05, 2011, 07:25:59 AM
Well, if this were the Genesis scene, you'd have no problems with interest (see Pier Solar)... but since this is such a small scene, I'd think it'd be more trouble than it's worth... unless you were in bed with the Cobb.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: MotherGunner on October 05, 2011, 07:33:57 AM
Yea we were talking about this on the gouging thread. CDs are immediately easier so I would go for that. Wishful thingking I would get my hands on a Bonk CD, Terraforming, Dynastic Hero, and Beyond Shadowgate.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: thesteve on October 05, 2011, 07:43:39 AM
i dont know what cost you were looking at, or how nice a card
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 05, 2011, 07:54:37 AM
i dont know what cost you were looking at, or how nice a card
nice as in as close to a HuCard as possible.
I have a few ideas and I know one would work and is possible but it may be too expensive if not enough interest exists.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: SuperPlay on October 05, 2011, 08:29:14 AM
For me personally I prefer HuCards.
This is probably more from a nostalgic viewpoint as these are what made the PCE stand out for me against other consoles back in the day. Along with the white PCE they were just an awesome combination.
When I speak to friends and I mention my PCE collection they associate it with tiny cards. HuCards scream "PC Engine" to me where as CDs are just CDs. (I know that there were other cards on Sega etc)
If you could produce a card release I would pay a premium for this over a CD pressing.
P.S I loved your preview video of the test hardware card that you showed at CCAG 2011 :-)
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: MotherGunner on October 05, 2011, 08:31:52 AM
Would love to see that video, any chance its been uploaded?
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nat on October 05, 2011, 10:29:08 AM
Practically speaking, and I REALLY hate to say this, but doing carts is probably going to prove to be more trouble and expense than it's worth.
It really, really pains me to say that because there is nothing I'd rather see more than a HuCard release almost 20 years after the last HuCard rolled off the press. I'll say this, however, if it did happen, count me in for one or a few.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: mrhaboobi on October 05, 2011, 10:45:08 AM
I'll say this, however, if it did happen, count me in for one or a few.
Ditto to that :)
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Mishran on October 05, 2011, 11:11:51 AM
Hucard would definitely be cool. You'd almost need to determine the overall cost for mass production of one before getting a tally of interest. Most who say yes now might change their minds if the cost is over $50.00. $50-60 would be my personal limit. More from circumstance than by choice however. :(
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: SignOfZeta on October 05, 2011, 11:58:48 AM
Both. First, we make a new system card that doubles the system RAM as well as implements ACD RAM. Then, we make CDs that take advantage of all the extra storage. f*ck yeah.
And then monkies fly out of your ass, right? There is no f*cking way in hell that is going to happen.
RE: the original question. I would buy your next release on a HuCard, ghetto or not. Making something as low profile as an actual Hu might be really hard/ expensive, but it doesn't have to be a fragile rickety POS either. There has never been a HuCard home brew before. I think you should do it for that reason alone. If you could make software that somehow emphasizes the HuCard format's strengths (no loading) rather than it's weaknesses ($$$) that would help sell copies.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 05, 2011, 12:09:02 PM
And then monkies fly out of your ass, right? There is no f*cking way in hell that is going to happen.
I honestly don't see why not. The required RAM chips for this are relatively cheap, and the ACD system card has already been disassembled.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 05, 2011, 12:29:39 PM
I am thinking the target market for HuCards is frikking TINY. Because lets face it, they will cost more than the NES/Sega/SNES homebrew carts due to the pain in the assedness of assembling a lowprofile card. I'd have to charge more to make it even worth doing. Even breaking even will be like WTF?!? :-/
I have a few connections that can actually do it right, but the thing is, tooling a card mold isn't exactly cheap. I'd be fronting money under the assumption I would sell that many to recoup just the mold costs... The mold cost to get a nice shell (Street Fighter 2 card style!) is pretty steep. Talk about gamblin'.
Now, the other alternative is a semi-ghetto hand-made with custom case edition. We'd already planned something like this with the multiplayer-80s-throwback cards . Here is the video, to those who missed it.
I have at least 3 ways myself that I know of that would at least coat the card and protect the metal/rom. It sure won't look nice. But it'll do.
It really is looking like in the future, a small batch of hand made cards is what is going to happen. And it will have Asteroids, Light Cycles, Pong, Insanity Death Match, and something else I always forget about, all on one card, as a 1980s Throwback extravaganza.
Maybe a PCEFX exclusive! Yeah right, that would piss a ton of people off.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: vestcoat on October 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
I'd pay at least $60 for a shitty game on hucard (and I'm sure it wouldn't be shitty :)
Arkhan - you're the only one crazy enough to pull this off. If you don't do it, no one ever will. So yeah, you should do it.
I don't think Blue has modded every NEC console in existence yet, so one downside is that you'll either have to pick region compatibility or make two versions.
Here are some pros: 1) No one else has done it. A series of Hucard releases may not be commercially viable, but anyone who doesn't have their head stuck in the sand will go out and buy "the first hucard released in twenty years!!!" Especially considering... 2) There are a lot of collectors these days and the difference between a $30 CD and a pricy hucard doesn't mean much to them. Neither does a game's merit. Just look at all of the idiots trying to track down a copy of Local Girls of Hawaii. Someone even sold their Meteor Blaster SE for $250 on ebay a couple years ago. Other collectors will buy two copies just so they can keep one in shrinkwrap. 3) There's been a growing appreciation for chip tunes these days and you're known for making good ones. Appeal to those interested in hearing chip tunes coming off a real chip. 4) Your TurboLink idea was a good one. I bought extra copies of Bomberman 93 and Falcon just so I could see this rare feature in action and their Turbolink modes suck. If you made a Turbolink mode that's actually playable and offered a discount on multiple orders, I'm sure people would buy more. 5) Finally, look into Kickstarter. It's a lot more graceful than preorders and you can test the waters before fronting all of the money yourself.
You'll definitely have to step up your promotion and maybe find some online vendors/distributors willing to stock the game, but I think a hucard is viable as long as the price isn't completely outrageous.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: SignOfZeta on October 05, 2011, 01:13:14 PM
And then monkies fly out of your ass, right? There is no f*cking way in hell that is going to happen.
I honestly don't see why not. The required RAM chips for this are relatively cheap, and the ACD system card has already been disassembled.
Oh, I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it won't be done. This is a scene where it takes forever to make anything happen, people delay and bail out on shit 99 times out of every 100 projects announced. It takes years just to translate a game with two pages of text. In this world, who is going to actually finish something that requires an ultra rare, home made system update when people aren't even able to use the standard System Cards with much proficiency? Nobody, that's who.
I'm not saying I don't want one of these things, I'm not saying I won't buy one, but I'm not sure how many other people will, knowing that I will never be exploited.
What might actually work: a card that allows users to run standard PCE ROMs off a CD. Like a working version of the SuperHuCard. If the card did that, then it could survive on it's own and it would be worth more than just a knicknack for playing a half dozen demos on.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nectarsis on October 05, 2011, 01:40:43 PM
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 05, 2011, 02:55:25 PM
Yep. I put it on hold because of finances and work with software, but it's still in the back of my mind.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: henrycsc on October 05, 2011, 03:10:48 PM
If given a choice - Hueys. I see everyone's comments as to the cons, but if it can be done, a homebrew hu would be incredible!
I would also recommend using the PCE region since US systems can play with a converter without having to be region modded.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 05, 2011, 03:48:14 PM
Hucards would be awesome, if only for the virtually unlimited size you could really give them... though really, having virtually immediate access to all the data at once is really nice. I could have done MSR on hucard, and though it wouldn't have had such nice cutscenes or such nice music, it would have eliminated a TON of the issues that the CD version has had.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 05, 2011, 05:37:35 PM
I'd pay at least $60 for a shitty game on hucard (and I'm sure it wouldn't be shitty :)
Well, I thought about Atlantean as a Huey release, but I can't justify that one single game on a HuCard. The multiplayer 80s throwback is still stretching it too. It's a starting point, but even a starting point is going to cost a shitload. Of all the Retrocade games, I see Atlantean as the best idea for a standalone huey. It's a actiony shooter game.
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Arkhan - you're the only one crazy enough to pull this off. If you don't do it, no one ever will. So yeah, you should do it.
The credit doesn't all go to me. If this goes down as planned, OldMan and a few other people will also be involved. If you think I'm crazy, OldMan is even more crazy... :) I blame insanity for our success.
Oh, and Insanity too, I guess. ;)
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I don't think Blue has modded every NEC console in existence yet, so one downside is that you'll either have to pick region compatibility or make two versions.
Won't need two versions. We've got 2 ways to take care of that dilemma.
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Here are some pros: 1) No one else has done it. A series of Hucard releases may not be commercially viable, but anyone who doesn't have their head stuck in the sand will go out and buy "the first hucard released in twenty years!!!" Especially considering...
This is my thought as well. I am skeptical still... but yeah! That's why I want the first wave to be done right so when people look back they can go "Well, f*ck! Look at that!"
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2) There are a lot of collectors these days and the difference between a $30 CD and a pricy hucard doesn't mean much to them. Neither does a game's merit. Just look at all of the idiots trying to track down a copy of Local Girls of Hawaii. Someone even sold their Meteor Blaster SE for $250 on ebay a couple years ago. Other collectors will buy two copies just so they can keep one in shrinkwrap.
Id rather play into the hands of normal people. As such, f*ck shrink wrapping. Insanity wasn't shrinked for a reason. No dickhead can RoyVegas a sealed copy for 4300$ in 10 years claming its the raer epic only sealed one ever, because they were never shrinked, ever.
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3) There's been a growing appreciation for chip tunes these days and you're known for making good ones. Appeal to those interested in hearing chip tunes coming off a real chip.
Well, Insanity has chiptunes playing off the chip, :) You can do chiptunes with the CD :). But yea, I see your point. No CD audio/sound possible with a HuCard. Whole game, 100% chiptunes. Though,the retrocade is moving that way right now anyways. The chip sounds make them have more charm to me.
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4) Your TurboLink idea was a good one. I bought extra copies of Bomberman 93 and Falcon just so I could see this rare feature in action and their Turbolink modes suck. If you made a Turbolink mode that's actually playable and offered a discount on multiple orders, I'm sure people would buy more.
That was actually OldMan's idea! I just supplied the test hardware/games and let him run with it.
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5) Finally, look into Kickstarter. It's a lot more graceful than preorders and you can test the waters before fronting all of the money yourself.
Hmmm. I'll look into it :)
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You'll definitely have to step up your promotion and maybe find some online vendors/distributors willing to stock the game, but I think a hucard is viable as long as the price isn't completely outrageous.
I tried promoting Insanity and Insanity X. Most places don't give a shit. It's lame. Kotaku pulled my posts and marked them irrelevant. f*ck Kotaku!
I am betting a HuCard will cost around 50$ to buy once it is finished, and that barely involves any kickback for Aetherbyte. Crazy.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 05, 2011, 05:47:19 PM
Kotaku sucks shit through a straw.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on October 05, 2011, 06:34:26 PM
What might actually work: a card that allows users to run standard PCE ROMs off a CD. Like a working version of the SuperHuCard. If the card did that, then it could survive on it's own and it would be worth more than just a knicknack for playing a half dozen demos on.
Yeah, that's much more useful than a flash cart. Why load unmolested roms directly to a flash cart when you can hack 'em, burn 'em to a disc, and then load 'em through your console? f*ck yeah, that'd be hardcore!!!!
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 06, 2011, 03:41:55 AM
Hey! Aetherbyte doesn't take forever to make things happen! And we don't bail out!
are we the 1/100? lol
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 06, 2011, 04:23:32 AM
Probably. But then again, FU doesn't bail out either, so that's like... 2/100? hehe.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: KingDrool on October 06, 2011, 05:41:11 AM
I'd definitely support this. $50 for a new HuCard game? Sold! But I'd pay more than that as well just to see it happen.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: MotherGunner on October 06, 2011, 05:52:40 AM
Same here, look at it this way:
Getting it done and partnering up with your favorite game sites to help spread the word and market this would equal selling out of the product, and though probably limited on profit, you'd accomplish three things:
1. Bragging rights as the first person to get it done. 2. Recovery of your expenses. 3. A newfound surge in others attempting the same.
It's a win-win for everyone.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Mishran on October 06, 2011, 05:58:42 AM
Getting it done and partnering up with your favorite game sites to help spread the word and market this would equal selling out of the product, and though probably limited on profit, you'd accomplish three things:
1. Bragging rights as the first person to get it done. 2. Recovery of your expenses. 3. A newfound surge in others attempting the same.
It's a win-win for everyone.
What he said. You could also save money on plastic by buying all the penny auction TV Sports games and reusing the card housings for your own games. :P
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: SignOfZeta on October 06, 2011, 06:20:00 AM
This is a scene where it takes forever to make anything happen, people delay and bail out on shit 99 times out of every 100 projects announced.
It's also a scene where too many people sit on the sidelines and bitch about what others are doing rather than being supportive or offering to help.
Oh shit, it seems I've set you off on one of your things again.
All I'm saying is that while this product could be made, and it would be awesome for sure, we already have the Arcade Card and nobody is using it. Why would this thing, which would have 1000th the installed user base, be used?
What might actually work: a card that allows users to run standard PCE ROMs off a CD. Like a working version of the SuperHuCard. If the card did that, then it could survive on it's own and it would be worth more than just a knicknack for playing a half dozen demos on.
Yeah, that's much more useful than a flash cart. Why load unmolested roms directly to a flash cart when you can hack 'em, burn 'em to a disc, and then load 'em through your console? f*ck yeah, that'd be hardcore!!!!
Why are you a person like this? Honest question.
All PCE HuCard games will fit on a single CD. If there was a device that would emulate a giant HuCard and allow for a PC-free solution that would be superior to a shitty flash card with unreliable client software. I can't for the life of me guess why you would think the ROMs would have to be hacked one by one. They don't need to be hacked to run from a (good) flash cart, why this thing? The main difference between this and a flash card would be that it would have non-flash RAM to run the game from, and the necessary software to load games from the CDROM2. If you've ever used a hacked PS2 or XB1 that is capable of warezing games onto its own HD and then playing them from there...its pretty convenient, a lot more convenient than needing to involve the PC.
I'm saying that if such a "Super Duper Arcade Card" or whatever were produced then a feature like this would, if all other features prove to be wasted potential, justify the existence of the product and its cost. Myself, I am always looking for PCE flash/copier/whatever solutions, but, while they have come a long way, they still suck.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 06, 2011, 07:21:46 AM
ROMs have to be hacked to run from the CD for two reasons:
-There isn't enough system RAM to run most ROMs -Addressing is very different; things have to be changed around
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Necromancer on October 06, 2011, 08:54:53 AM
Oh shit, it seems I've set you off on one of your things again.
Not really; that comment wasn't directed specifically at you (did I hit a nerve?), but rather at those in the peanut gallery with nothing to offer but complaint (i.e. - whining about delayed/canceled translations, delays to Mysterious Song, that homebrew games aren't as good as *insert commercial game here*, etc.).
And they'd all fit on a single flashcart too. The goodPCE romset is about 256MB, but it includes multiple hacked roms and tons of homebrew stuff; pared down to just the commercial games, it'd likely be under 64MB.
If there was a device that would emulate a giant HuCard and allow for a PC-free solution that would be superior to a shitty flash card with unreliable client software.
You'd still need a computer to burn discs with your idea, so it sounds like a better flashing utility and drivers would make more sense than trying to reinvent the wheel. Failing that, a newly designed flashcart utilizing CF/SD/etc. would be super user friendly and obviate the need of a console that reliably reads CDRs and a willingness to risk their use.
I can't for the life of me guess why you would think the ROMs would have to be hacked one by one. They don't need to be hacked to run from a (good) flash cart, why this thing?
'Twas just a guess. I have no idea if running a loading program to access to the CD drive and running input through the HuCard connections would leave all the output lines open.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Mishran on October 06, 2011, 11:15:38 AM
The Hu/ROM CD idea might work if the specific rom was loaded into some memory on the HuCard before launch. Shouldn't need any hacking, but doesn't do anything a simple flash cart would do. A flash cart with more storage space or an SD card slot might work. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: thrush on October 06, 2011, 01:27:16 PM
I am a starving student so I cannot make promises about specific price points, but... I would be a lot more likely to buy a homebrew game on a HuCard than on CD, even if it cost a good deal more. CDs seemed cooler to me once upon a time, but those years are gone. ^_-
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: TheClash603 on October 06, 2011, 03:04:09 PM
Go with the Hu if possible.
However, I did see you say you'd like to do a Street Fighter 2-esque Hu Card, and I am not down with that. I think that the small Hu Cards are what everyone associates the TG16 / PC-E with, so doing the big card would not be nearly as nostalgic or cool. If it came down to a big card or a CD, then I'd say just go with the CD.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 06, 2011, 03:44:51 PM
Doing cards the size of the original hucards requires "standard" ROM manufacturing, and this is hideously expensive in low runs. Cards that look like SFII or the ACD are going to be much cheaper, since they can be made with surface-mount flash RAM chips or even PROMs. This is way cheaper than going the ROM manufacturing route. And hey, look at some of the hueys put out by Games Express... those things have massive caps on them, but no one seemed to mind. :D
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 06, 2011, 05:14:54 PM
However, I did see you say you'd like to do a Street Fighter 2-esque Hu Card, and I am not down with that. I think that the small Hu Cards are what everyone associates the TG16 / PC-E with, so doing the big card would not be nearly as nostalgic or cool. If it came down to a big card or a CD, then I'd say just go with the CD.
Doing this is never going to happen with hand assembled cards. On a standard hucard, all the ROMDoom is under the black portion, and we sure as shit don't have the gear to make that in a garage or basement. That sort of manufacturing requires alot.
The SF2 style card basically gives an extra shell-piece to cover up the exposed ROM that will be in a completely different location than a real hucard..
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: spenoza on October 06, 2011, 06:27:55 PM
Here's a thought. You could go with a HuCard "carrier" design that costs a little more, and the games could be on SD cards or daughter boards/cards that simply attach to the HuCard carrier. The carrier is what slots into the unit and holds the mount for the data unit that contains the game code.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 07, 2011, 02:21:41 AM
Here's a thought. You could go with a HuCard "carrier" design that costs a little more, and the games could be on SD cards or daughter boards/cards that simply attach to the HuCard carrier. The carrier is what slots into the unit and holds the mount for the data unit that contains the game code.
I've considered this before, and contacted my electronics engineer friend to see if she had any insight. Never heard back from her though.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Necromancer on October 07, 2011, 02:34:11 AM
Here's a thought. You could go with a HuCard "carrier" design that costs a little more, and the games could be on SD cards or daughter boards/cards that simply attach to the HuCard carrier. The carrier is what slots into the unit and holds the mount for the data unit that contains the game code.
That's more or less ark's plan except with eeproms instead of flash cards: use a generic board w/ a eeprom socket, burn whatever you want to the eeprom, stick it in the socket and slap a corresponding label on the hump.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Senshi on October 07, 2011, 02:43:36 AM
I'd buy either but I prefer CD's.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: TheOldMan on October 07, 2011, 02:50:46 AM
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I've considered this before, and contacted my electronics engineer friend to see if she had any insight. Never heard back from her though.
Probably because sd cards and the like (micro-sd, etc) are serial in nature. The chip on a Hucard is a parallel setup. So, you'd have to have RAM to hold the converted image, and a serial-parallel translation circuit.... Which would require some kind of clock for the conversion circuit....etc.
See why she never replied ? :)
BTW, that's also why you won't see a USB type card. Same problem. Personally, I'm waiting for charlies ide circuit. I think it would be neat if we could hook it up on the expansion bus on the turbo, and use a 'new' system card to transfer images to ram on the card from a hard-drive. Or even a from a newer cd drive.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 07, 2011, 03:57:14 AM
Mac and I talked about such a thing a few years ago, but at the time, the MCU hadn't yet been decapped so there was still much work to be done. Things might have changed since then.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: BlueBMW on October 07, 2011, 05:13:59 AM
Does someone have a schematic for a hucard using flashable rom chips (surface mount ideally but dip or socketed would work too) I have an idea....
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: TheOldMan on October 07, 2011, 05:18:17 AM
From what I read on his 'blog', he has a working circuit for a Genesis cart that handles ide. He was using it to test FMV stuff.
Seems to me that would be very similar (well, not the drivers, but...) to what is needed for an external CD-ROM on the pce interface connector. We could move the SDRam to the HuCard, and (hopefully) read from the circuit into the on-card ram, much like a real system card does. Add in an eeprom and a decoder, and it -might- be possible to run a menu program from the eeprom to load rom images (<128k ?) from cd. Then we could disable the eeprom and re-set to run the image.
Just thinking out loud again.....
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: Arkhan on October 07, 2011, 07:22:32 AM
Here's a thought. You could go with a HuCard "carrier" design that costs a little more, and the games could be on SD cards or daughter boards/cards that simply attach to the HuCard carrier. The carrier is what slots into the unit and holds the mount for the data unit that contains the game code.
That's more or less ark's plan except with eeproms instead of flash cards: use a generic board w/ a eeprom socket, burn whatever you want to the eeprom, stick it in the socket and slap a corresponding label on the hump.
Or a snap-on plastic cover! Ooooooo.... Stylin'!
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 07, 2011, 09:47:46 PM
OK... snooping around for usable chips, I came across this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360300274823
Looks like they have over 11 thousand of them and are selling them off in lots of 50. It comes out to about $5.52 apiece. The question is... is 100ns fast enough?
EDIT: I think they'll work just fine... the chip inside my GE game is a M27C4001-15F1, which is a 150ns chip... a 100ns chip should work wonderfully. :)
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 07, 2011, 11:01:06 PM
It appears as if Atmel still manufactures chips that fit the bill...
EDIT: I found a supplier out of Guangdong, China that may be able to get these, and at a pretty damn good price too.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: TheOldMan on October 08, 2011, 02:05:04 AM
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It comes out to about $5.52 apiece..... a 100ns chip should work wonderfully.
Yes, 100ns will work. Up to about 120ns is fine, btw. But now everyone has independant collaboration - the chips are about $5 each, making the total for parts alone about $15.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 08, 2011, 03:53:03 AM
I've gotten a quote from JiaYe Technology (HK) Co., LTD for the Atmel AT27C080-90PC... they quoted me $4.50 apiece for an order of 5, or $3.50 apiece for an order of 1000. The TSOP package apparently isn't being made anymore so I asked for PLCC, which is arguably just as good but I guess there's going to be a little more cost for the mount.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: TheOldMan on October 08, 2011, 04:17:14 AM
TSOP's would just make a flatter board (*I think*) and be easier to solder. PLCC works, but you either need a socket or a steady hand to solder them on.
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 08, 2011, 05:18:04 AM
You can get the boards made with the socket pre-installed... it doesn't seem to cost much more and makes it way easier to put together working cards. :)
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: spenoza on October 08, 2011, 05:42:49 AM
Well, if you intend to make any slightly larger games, won't you need to include some kind of memory mapper? How complicated will something like that be?
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: nodtveidt on October 08, 2011, 09:11:58 AM
Yes, if you go over 8 megabits, you need a mapper. I have no idea how to do something like that... I only understand the principle behind it, not the circuitry. Someone else would be better suited for that. :)
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: TheOldMan on October 08, 2011, 12:12:14 PM
Quote
Well, if you intend to make any slightly larger games, won't you need to include some kind of memory mapper? How complicated will something like that be?
Not just a mapper (which is available in chip form), but also a decoder for the address lines, so you don't 'accidentally' change the mapper registers. :( Which also implies you lose some space from the chip, though you could probably map the mapper into the i/o page fairly easily....
But seriously: 8M bit = 1M byte = one big game. Even bigger if you compress stuff, and decompress it when needed. Your biggest problem with a 8M bit+ game is gonna be powering it all.....
Title: Re: Would you rather have....
Post by: thesteve on October 08, 2011, 05:45:51 PM
memory is not near as power hungry as it once was, so powering it is not an issue. mapping can be done with a ram chip and a bus chip. the trick is the software needs to know its their