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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion => Topic started by: cjameslv on September 20, 2014, 05:11:18 PM
Title: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 20, 2014, 05:11:18 PM
Why not? Anyone done this before? Looked around but didn't find anything (still new to forums, may have missed it). I been thinking how cool it would be to have a 2 player console. Yes i know there is a 5 port adapter but i'm thinking built-in would look alot better.
If there's no write up on this i'll go ahead and post more pics as i proceed. I added some pics for reference displaying clearances, things that will need relocation, placements etc.
Thanks
Port placement (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img661/6972/Cliry4.html)
DIN & test fit pcb (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img912/4682/bPAcOU.html)
Test fit (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img905/7482/uggpnz.html)
Test fit of 5port (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img674/1091/r9gbBE.html)
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cr8zykuban0 on September 20, 2014, 05:13:36 PM
that's exactly what the turbo should have came with in the first place! that would be an awesome project forsure! love to see more pics from the progress!
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: esteban on September 20, 2014, 11:05:55 PM
I look forward to more pics. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: SephirothTNH on September 21, 2014, 12:33:51 PM
Great project. I've been planning on doing something similar to my DUO when I finally get around to working on it. My only question about it is if there are any compatibility issues with any games or peripherals when using the multitap? If anyone knows the answer I would appreciate it.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Ayce on September 22, 2014, 02:15:34 AM
You may have heard this enough... Maybe not. Great idea, I will be watching the progress on this.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Necromancer on September 22, 2014, 03:50:26 AM
I presume an external tap will no longer work with such a mod, seeing as you'd be daisy chaining two taps together. Removing the ability to play five player Bomberman, Dungeon Explorer, etc. pretty much ruins the system for me.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 22, 2014, 04:31:07 AM
Update*
I did a pinout of the turbotap (us ver.) and of the board din connector. Wired up the turbotap. When testing the unit did not work correctly. Found this was due to the port not feeding through the turbotap. So i had to cut the traces and wire the port to the turbotap and it worked correctly. I will be wiring up the second port tonight when i get home from work and doing more testing.
Also due to the placement of the second port, i had to relocate the transistor. I lengthened the wires and will be attaching it to the top of the heatsink instead of the bottom where it used to be. there is 2 existing threaded holes on top of the heatsink so this will work nicely.
I presume an external tap will no longer work with such a mod, seeing as you'd be daisy chaining two taps together. Removing the ability to play five player Bomberman, Dungeon Explorer, etc. pretty much ruins the system for me.
Unsure about the daisy chain (has anyone tested to see if 2 of them work? i imagine you would just use the last tap in the chain and still only be able to use 5 players tho..). I don't have a need for 5 player bomberman or 5player anything. Just me and wife play on this and i'm just fine with that. If that need ever arose, i'll just use my unmodded TG16.
I thought about doing something similar, only making a new mold for the console so all 5 ports would fit in. just wire the tap board directly to the leads for the original port, then from that board run wires out to wherever you want the 5 ports to be.
Then i realized it'd be easier to duct tape a tap to the top of the turbob. Looks pretty slick!
Duct tape is so universal!
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: ishiyakazuo on September 22, 2014, 07:09:13 AM
I presume an external tap will no longer work with such a mod, seeing as you'd be daisy chaining two taps together. Removing the ability to play five player Bomberman, Dungeon Explorer, etc. pretty much ruins the system for me.
Unsure about the daisy chain (has anyone tested to see if 2 of them work? i imagine you would just use the last tap in the chain and still only be able to use 5 players tho..). I don't have a need for 5 player bomberman or 5player anything. Just me and wife play on this and i'm just fine with that. If that need ever arose, i'll just use my unmodded TG16.
The way it seems to work is that a clock comes in and it switches ports every clock edge. So by daisy chaining them, my current thinking is that you'd only have access to the first port of the downstream multitap, and then only once out of every 5 samples (so every button press would be like an auto-fire). However, there is something about the multitap detecting the DIN connector shells, and skipping the unconnected controllers, but I kind of doubt that to be true, because there's no way to convey which controller's data is being sent up, generally (it resets, then polls all 5, as I understand it).
In short, it seems highly likely that there will be no way to chain an extra multitap to this. (Maybe it'd make sense to wire up the other three to a DB25 connector somewhere, and make a breakout cable or something, for those times when Bomberman must be played?)
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 22, 2014, 11:54:37 AM
In short, it seems highly likely that there will be no way to chain an extra multitap to this. (Maybe it'd make sense to wire up the other three to a DB25 connector somewhere, and make a breakout cable or something, for those times when Bomberman must be played?)
Hmm a breakout cable within a port area (possibly in the old rf spot), seems like that would be a good possibility. Since this one is for myself though, i'm just going to go with the 2 player mod and leave it there for now.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Duo_R on September 22, 2014, 03:14:58 PM
pics of the final install?
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 22, 2014, 04:59:08 PM
Not yet, lol i wish! I'm still finishing up a few things and still have to work on the exterior.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: turbokon on September 22, 2014, 09:34:51 PM
You know, I've been thinking about this myself. The tg16 has room to add the the internals from the turbo tab. Will try this when I have some time later on.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Desh on September 23, 2014, 02:01:36 AM
I eagerly await the finished result. I have been wanting to do this since I first grabbed a tap. I have been searching for a spare for awhile to mate to a spare TG I have. I also play to do region mod and RGB to make it the ultimate TG console.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 23, 2014, 05:45:28 PM
Update*
Hey guys i had some time to wire up port 2 (which is now port 1). I decided to make a fast video to show it working. Still alot to do but as time permits i do what i can!
Here's a quick video:
Things left to do: 1. Tidy up wires 2. Drill hole for new port 3. Put it all back together and post pics video etc. **4. I will be doing an rgb to componet mod to the CD adapter later on.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 24, 2014, 12:38:42 PM
*Update - Final ( On this particular mod anyway ;) )
Cleaned up the wiring and put it all back together. Re-soldered heat shields in place. Used a foam pad with self adhesive backing on the Turbotap pcb so it wont touch the board or heat shield. I really like how it came out and will be working on the RGB>Componet mod to the CD dock soon. Hope you guys enjoy it.
Bare Port (Player 1) (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img908/3708/zVPqpt.html)
Controller plugged in (Player 1) (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img904/4777/oVsobk.html)
Top View (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img674/9514/dL2Vir.html)
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Desh on September 24, 2014, 01:47:34 PM
It came out very nice. I have plans to do the same but feature all 5 ports on the front of the console. Very tidy and well thought out work too. Nice job!
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: esteban on September 24, 2014, 02:12:28 PM
I like the orange buttons on the control pad. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
This is an interesting mod. I prefer using multi-taps, myself, but I love folks experimenting.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 24, 2014, 02:15:26 PM
I like the orange buttons on the control pad. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
This is an interesting mod. I prefer using multi-taps, myself, but I love folks experimenting.
Thanks, the buttons are from a NES controller, turns out the buttons and rubber pads are same shape/size.
I was going to mention the NES buttons but forgot. It does look kind of cool. I was surprised to find that fact when I opened up my first NEC controller.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Duo_R on September 25, 2014, 06:45:12 PM
Nicely done!
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on September 26, 2014, 03:51:16 AM
Thanks! This system is gonna be subject to a few more mods as time permits :twisted: I'll take a break and do a simple mod and light up the logo. I like how that looks.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Punch on October 04, 2014, 03:29:30 PM
Punch says: try fitting the other 3 ports in the turbo, that would be the ultimate turbo mod.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on October 04, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
Punch says: try fitting the other 3 ports in the turbo, that would be the ultimate turbo mod.
Agreed that would be pretty epic but until someone makes a 3d print of a new top housing i don't see that happening due to space constrictions,(mainly from gap between pcb and and housing).
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Bonknuts on October 06, 2014, 08:05:36 AM
I presume an external tap will no longer work with such a mod, seeing as you'd be daisy chaining two taps together. Removing the ability to play five player Bomberman, Dungeon Explorer, etc. pretty much ruins the system for me.
Unsure about the daisy chain (has anyone tested to see if 2 of them work? i imagine you would just use the last tap in the chain and still only be able to use 5 players tho..). I don't have a need for 5 player bomberman or 5player anything. Just me and wife play on this and i'm just fine with that. If that need ever arose, i'll just use my unmodded TG16.
The way it seems to work is that a clock comes in and it switches ports every clock edge. So by daisy chaining them, my current thinking is that you'd only have access to the first port of the downstream multitap, and then only once out of every 5 samples (so every button press would be like an auto-fire). However, there is something about the multitap detecting the DIN connector shells, and skipping the unconnected controllers, but I kind of doubt that to be true, because there's no way to convey which controller's data is being sent up, generally (it resets, then polls all 5, as I understand it).
In short, it seems highly likely that there will be no way to chain an extra multitap to this. (Maybe it'd make sense to wire up the other three to a DB25 connector somewhere, and make a breakout cable or something, for those times when Bomberman must be played?)
That's what my tests showed. It (the TAP) knows what controllers are plugged in, but the system side itself doesn't know. You could build the TAP logic with some off the shelf TTL chips. If I remember correctly, it uses the clock line (for reading the upper and lower 4bits of the controller) to clock the to the next input. And if I remember correctly, either the 'reset bit' or a timeout device resets the TAP to position 1 (relative position 1, because it can detect which ports are controllers are plugged into).
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: ishiyakazuo on October 06, 2014, 08:53:13 AM
That's what my tests showed. It (the TAP) knows what controllers are plugged in, but the system side itself doesn't know. You could build the TAP logic with some off the shelf TTL chips. If I remember correctly, it uses the clock line (for reading the upper and lower 4bits of the controller) to clock the to the next input. And if I remember correctly, either the 'reset bit' or a timeout device resets the TAP to position 1 (relative position 1, because it can detect which ports are controllers are plugged into).
Interesting. Do you know that there's a timeout, or is that speculation? I guess that a timeout would be useful for games that use only the original 2 button controller and only sample every X milliseconds and don't have support for more than 1 player. They wouldn't care if it's a multitap or not then.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on October 06, 2014, 09:33:26 AM
That's what my tests showed. It (the TAP) knows what controllers are plugged in, but the system side itself doesn't know. You could build the TAP logic with some off the shelf TTL chips. If I remember correctly, it uses the clock line (for reading the upper and lower 4bits of the controller) to clock the to the next input. And if I remember correctly, either the 'reset bit' or a timeout device resets the TAP to position 1 (relative position 1, because it can detect which ports are controllers are plugged into).
If you can give me a diagram of this idea, i'll throw it on a breadboard and test it and post results. Then we could have 2 port mod that would be able to be more mainstream and not turn off those that need to play 3+ players.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: ishiyakazuo on October 06, 2014, 01:59:59 PM
If you can give me a diagram of this idea, i'll throw it on a breadboard and test it and post results. Then we could have 2 port mod that would be able to be more mainstream and not turn off those that need to play 3+ players.
I don't think that this really helps that particular use case... you still can't daisy-chain multitaps. The software still only knows how to read from a single multitap. My comment about it was really saying that 1-player games can be played through a multitap without needing special code to handle multitaps. Once you start going to 2+ players, you're still stuck with the single multitap, because certain signals (such as the reset pulse) never get passed further down.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Keith Courage on October 06, 2014, 04:05:34 PM
Maybe use a switch to turn the 2nd controller port on or off so that way an external tap can still be used. An 8pole switch of some sort would do the trick. Then again, I wonder if there are just a couple of the signals you would have to terminate in order to switch off the internal tap for the 2nd port.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: Paddyfitz18 on October 07, 2014, 04:33:26 AM
Man that came out nice. And I agree those NES buttons on the controller look really cool.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: ishiyakazuo on October 07, 2014, 07:34:32 AM
I honestly can't remember. It's been awhile, but since controllers are only read once every vblank - and I remember a strange situation where the solution for some game's code to work, seemed that the device had to time out at some point. I can't find any of my notes, so it might as well be speculation at this point :/ I'll be testing TAP code in the near future for a game project in the works, so I'll make sure to post notes at that point.
OK, cool. Yeah, if you happen to whip up some test code that can determine what the minimum is for a timeout on a real tap, that would be very useful info.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: roflmao on October 19, 2014, 06:36:54 PM
This is awesome.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: RRR on October 19, 2014, 08:17:58 PM
Cool mod, Great Job!
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cr8zykuban0 on October 19, 2014, 08:56:33 PM
just saw the update video. that shit looks clean! awesome job for sure.
this is how the turbografx should have been!!!!
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: cjameslv on October 21, 2014, 04:21:44 PM
I like the orange buttons on the control pad. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
This is an interesting mod. I prefer using multi-taps, myself, but I love folks experimenting.
I would say you stole the words out of my mouth, but you posted a month ahead of me.
Coincidentally, cjameslv himself is sending me a TG16 controller, and I have more NES controllers than pairs of socks. Definitely switching the buttons out.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: esteban on October 23, 2014, 11:33:23 PM
I like the orange buttons on the control pad. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
This is an interesting mod. I prefer using multi-taps, myself, but I love folks experimenting.
I would say you stole the words out of my mouth, but you posted a month ahead of me.
Coincidentally, cjameslv himself is sending me a TG16 controller, and I have more NES controllers than pairs of socks. Definitely switching the buttons out.
I know you will take some nice before-and-after photos of the controllers when you swap out the buttons. Thank you.
Title: Re: 2 Player TG16 Console Mod
Post by: grache on November 03, 2014, 07:25:02 AM