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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion => Topic started by: thesteve on April 14, 2015, 08:41:36 AM
Title: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: thesteve on April 14, 2015, 08:41:36 AM
ok remove PCZ80 (http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10996284_10202674016250313_112501909533134260_n664d.jpg?oh=0ad84b6fd88d5dd8c1b137a41589a39f&oe=55774726) jumper in clocks (jumper from pin6 to pins 15 and 22. jumper pin10 to pin11) jumper in sync (pin16 of PCZ80 to pin40 of HuC6260)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11060919_10202674014210262_5434111813303691127_nac4d.html?oh=612ddd0ee82495f0593908c694ddf504&oe=55AB882A&__gda__=1437549909_5813f42ff62e7d529f5b04879f7ee140) system clock X201 change to 21.4772Mhz (http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1796580_10202674015010282_6606711293680281449_n97ab.jpg?oh=e1863bab8e3fd060f0b1608c3f342985&oe=55AB89BD) color clock X202 change to 3.579545Mhz (http://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10956087_10202674015650298_785809631474303955_n1fe9.html?oh=6c93b934b041a49262984dea869b9b9f&oe=557BE51D&__gda__=1433958477_aee337d94352c0b5367240b57f669d2c)
and clip pin7 on the cxa1145 and tie it to 5V
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: thesteve on April 14, 2015, 08:44:24 AM
note TC201 is the dot crawl adjustment
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: thesteve on April 14, 2015, 08:55:33 AM
1. where the pcz80 was, where is the white with blue stripe wire going to (possibly a picture missing)? also is there something connected on the other side of the board to pins 17,18, and 19 as they are filled with solder?
2. can you use the same type of clock for the system as you used for the color clock? the person in the tutorial I linked to earlier did so I would assume it would work, but dont know if they did something wrong. if so, this seems like it would be easier as you wouldn't have to drill any holes or use a jumper wire.
i did all my jumpers topside for visability striped wire on 15 runs to pin40 on the HuC6260 yes you could use a standard crystal for system clock, i just had the brick handy
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: schweaty on April 14, 2015, 10:28:20 AM
i dont think this video embed is working and i've tried a half dozen things but here is some footage of thesteve's work in action:
the audio is terrible, but my bullshit doesnt add anything to the video
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Necromancer on April 14, 2015, 10:47:40 AM
i dont think this video embed is working and i've tried a half dozen things but here is some footage of thesteve's work in action:
http://youtu.be/nBTifC9k_3k
the audio is terrible, but my bullshit doesnt add anything to the video
For the love of god schweaty turn the camera sideways! Just kdiding, thanks for showing it off.. looks awesome! :D
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: chop5 on April 14, 2015, 03:50:20 PM
awesome work steve
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: mickcris on April 15, 2015, 01:25:15 PM
The one I bought came today so I decided to do the PAL to NTSC mod and also RGB mod using the Sony encoder. (http://i.imgur.com/GdjSoMJl.jpg) bigger pic: http://i.imgur.com/GdjSoMJ.jpg
The normal Din 5 PCB mount has the same footprint, but the pins are all different. I wanted to use the same scart cable pinout as my other systems so I had to cut some traces and use jumper wires to get it back to normal. If doing this, note that the ground pin also needs severed on the other side of the board. Then I used a normal Din 8 PCB mount with pins 6,7,and 8 trimmed. (http://i.imgur.com/kshs9hll.jpg) Bigger pic: http://i.imgur.com/kshs9hl.jpg
Here is a pic of the note i took while confirming the pin-out in case it helps someone in the future: (http://i.imgur.com/qpEDs9sl.jpg)
thanks again thesteve!
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Ergot_Cholera on July 30, 2015, 09:13:40 PM
Mickcris. Where you have the 3 220uf caps on the RGB lines from the CXA1145, don't you need 75R's on there too, or are they in your cable?
I just looked at the image close up and can see that you have resistors on there in heat shrink. My mistake.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: GreatBlueSwirlof99 on July 30, 2015, 11:45:47 PM
There's a PAL TG16? But we never got It!? Whaaat?
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Ergot_Cholera on July 31, 2015, 09:29:00 PM
I have just performed this mod and I think I prefer the RGB output of this (from CXA1145) compared to a THS7314. There are no jailbars and the colours look to have better saturation. I think this will be my first choice Hucard console once I perform a region mod.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Supercom on August 06, 2015, 03:35:31 PM
Just got done with the mod myself works good, a huge thanks to thesteve. However, I'm getting some extreme dot crawling in the CXA1145 composite video output, although after some adjusment to the variable capacitor I think I've found a sweet spot. Any suggestions to soften the issue?
(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
And now is even compatible with the CD-rom system too :dance:
(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: 108 Stars on August 21, 2015, 10:58:00 AM
Out of curiosity: I heard that the PAL TG16s were basically modded US units, as NEC never bothered to release it here. The PAL TG16 are supposedly units modded by and sold by big importers. Is that correct? So basically you unmodded the thing?
Or was there a specific PAL run after all?
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Necromancer on August 21, 2015, 11:09:52 AM
Out of curiosity: I heard that the PAL TG16s were basically modded US units, as NEC never bothered to release it here. The PAL TG16 are supposedly units modded by and sold by big importers. Is that correct? So basically you unmodded the thing?
Or was there a specific PAL run after all?
I assume they're all new units. It doesn't make much sense to pull the pcb from brand new units just to stuff 'em into slightly different cases, with different controllers and new boxes.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: 108 Stars on August 21, 2015, 11:16:26 AM
Ah, okay. Sorry, I was unaware of the differences and assumed it was 1:1 identical to US versions, just with a "PAL version" sticker slapped on. This being special units does make it sound like a somewhat more serious/official effort.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Black Tiger on August 21, 2015, 01:10:41 PM
Out of curiosity: I heard that the PAL TG16s were basically modded US units, as NEC never bothered to release it here. The PAL TG16 are supposedly units modded by and sold by big importers. Is that correct? So basically you unmodded the thing?
Or was there a specific PAL run after all?
In France at least, the were importers who modified PC Engine systems and translated manuals.
The PAL "TurboGrafx" was planned for a market test by NEC, but it sounds like it never even made it that far. It has non-final packaging, with accessories contained in a separate box. The NOS stock was picked up by liquidators who are still trying to burn through their supply, many years later.
It has roughly the same physical shell as the TG-16, but instead of an RF switch jack, it has a CoreGrafx/Duo style AV jack. It is compatible with the Turbo-CD, but each game runs at different slower speeds.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Ergot_Cholera on August 22, 2015, 09:10:02 PM
Out of curiosity: I heard that the PAL TG16s were basically modded US units, as NEC never bothered to release it here. The PAL TG16 are supposedly units modded by and sold by big importers. Is that correct? So basically you unmodded the thing?
Or was there a specific PAL run after all?
In France at least, the were importers who modified PC Engine systems and translated manuals.
The PAL "TurboGrafx" was planned for a market test by NEC, but it sounds like it never even made it that far. It has non-final packaging, with accessories contained in a separate box. The NOS stock was picked up by liquidators who are still trying to burn through their supply, many years later.
It has roughly the same physical shell as the TG-16, but instead of an RF switch jack, it has a CoreGrafx/Duo style AV jack. It is compatible with the Turbo-CD, but each game runs at different slower speeds.
The AV socket is not the same as the one in the Core Grafx/Duo. It is a 5 pin din socket but the pin arrangement is not 180 degrees. The output to each pin is different too.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: schweaty on August 22, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
The AV socket is not the same as the one in the Core Grafx/Duo. It is a 5 pin din socket but the pin arrangement is not 180 degrees. The output to each pin is different too.
do you have the pin-out? i'm in the middle of a mod and i'm having trouble with the sound.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: mickcris on August 23, 2015, 12:38:57 AM
On the previous page I have the bottom of the din connectors pinpoints. You can probably use that to pin out the outside of the port.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: schweaty on August 23, 2015, 12:42:43 AM
Out of curiosity: I heard that the PAL TG16s were basically modded US units, as NEC never bothered to release it here. The PAL TG16 are supposedly units modded by and sold by big importers. Is that correct? So basically you unmodded the thing?
Or was there a specific PAL run after all?
In France at least, the were importers who modified PC Engine systems and translated manuals.
The PAL "TurboGrafx" was planned for a market test by NEC, but it sounds like it never even made it that far. It has non-final packaging, with accessories contained in a separate box. The NOS stock was picked up by liquidators who are still trying to burn through their supply, many years later.
It has roughly the same physical shell as the TG-16, but instead of an RF switch jack, it has a CoreGrafx/Duo style AV jack. It is compatible with the Turbo-CD, but each game runs at different slower speeds.
Do you know of any in-depth comparison or history article behind this? Maybe on this forum? I find this quite fascinating. I remember reading back in the day that NEC was considering the Duo for Europe, around the time Sega tried to push the Mega-CD here. Nothing ever materialized, but the PAL TG16 is interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: thesteve on August 23, 2015, 07:42:31 AM
i did note that the PCB used in the PAL unit was a high quality board whereas the board in the PCE/SGX/DUO-R and US TG16 are low quality resin boards prone to cracking
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Black Tiger on August 23, 2015, 11:19:41 AM
i did note that the PCB used in the PAL unit was a high quality board whereas the board in the PCE/SGX/DUO-R and US TG16 are low quality resin boards prone to cracking
That does make me wonder if the test marketing had gone as planned and was a success, if they would have maintained the quality for the retail version.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: wilykat on August 23, 2015, 01:08:55 PM
PAL TG has different controller overlay but it is nearly identical to USA counterpart. I don't know if NEC made a run specifically for European market or if there was another party involved but I doubt it is a run of the mill importer, most importer don't have the resource to make a bunch of PAL edition box, manuals, and controller panel overlay.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 24, 2015, 04:44:07 AM
PAL TG has different controller overlay but it is nearly identical to USA counterpart. I don't know if NEC made a run specifically for European market or if there was another party involved but I doubt it is a run of the mill importer, most importer don't have the resource to make a bunch of PAL edition box, manuals, and controller panel overlay.
The PAL unit and its accessories were made by NEC. This isn't a sodipeng like mod job.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Supercom on August 24, 2015, 05:06:12 AM
I'm not too familiar with the TG-16 chipset, does anyone knows if there is a SCIN out pin signal anywhere on the board? Anyways, since I still use composite video every now and then (don't judge me :P ) I manage to build a quick CLK divider circuit for the video encoder, that took care of the dot crawling problem.
(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: schweaty on August 25, 2015, 04:42:58 AM
i just finished a component mod on a ntsc-modded PAL deck using turbokon's v1 pcb. here's my impression: this is without a doubt the best picture i have ever seen on a PCE or TG16.
i've done 4-5 component mods on everything from a super cdrom2 to a US turboduo using turbokon's v1 and v2 pcb's. the only thing i havent done one on is a duo-r/x, but i figure its about the same as a regular duo.
there are absolutely no jailbars at all. i dont have any scientific data why its the best pic i've seen yet. it just is. using the same component mods on the same moniter (32" sony wega), the PAL TG16 is the best so far.
Title: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: esteban on August 25, 2015, 07:57:04 AM
i just finished a component mod on a ntsc-modded PAL deck using turbokon's v1 pcb. here's my impression: this is without a doubt the best picture i have ever seen on a PCE or TG16.
i've done 4-5 component mods on everything from a super cdrom2 to a US turboduo using turbokon's v1 and v2 pcb's. the only thing i havent done one on is a duo-r/x, but i figure its about the same as a regular duo.
there are absolutely no jailbars at all. i dont have any scientific data why its the best pic i've seen yet. it just is. using the same component mods on the same moniter (32" sony wega), the PAL TG16 is the best so far.
Your skills have improved. Much less flan on the traces.
;)
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: schweaty on August 25, 2015, 08:30:27 AM
Hi all, excuse me for reviving an old thread, but I'll perform this mod in the next few days and the last point of thesteve's post is not entirely clear to me and the links to the pics are broken.
Pin8 of cxa1145 is NTSC/PAL input according to online schematics. Should the pin be lifted and linked to +5V on the lifted chip's leg, and not to the PCB, correct?
Thanks a lot
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: mickcris on September 17, 2016, 12:41:48 AM
yes, that is correct
there are a couple other pics on the first page that are not broken (mine included) but i think there are some wires blocking a clear view of that pin.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Dreamstate on September 17, 2016, 01:38:49 AM
So, on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being forget it, how hard is this? There are a lot of PAL units new out there, so it is tempting.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: mickcris on September 17, 2016, 10:24:28 AM
So, on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being forget it, how hard is this? There are a lot of PAL units new out there, so it is tempting.
its pretty easy. not sure how to rate it on that scale though as it would be different for everyone. the hardest part is removing the PCZ80. If you have the proper tools though it is not hard.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Dreamstate on September 17, 2016, 04:05:57 PM
Ok, it is tempting. Thank for the feedback.
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Fidde_se on September 26, 2016, 07:45:21 AM
the missing images from my original post (http://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11060919_10202674014210262_5434111813303691127_nedf8.jpg?oh=e5fcd07f9b89993c379ff3410c8f5e32&oe=5A4E0E2A) (http://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10403509_10202674013690249_6444453530194265377_nd39a.jpg?oh=b7afaf1604b45ea6db7b420f7136f695&oe=5A4CB1D0) (http://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10259853_10202674013010232_3711770010434574770_n4906.jpg?oh=93223af97e5168d10a6a97e16bd93d0f&oe=5A49A3F9)
Title: Re: PAL turbografx NTSC mod
Post by: Alfiesgames on November 29, 2021, 10:51:56 AM
Hello from the future. Does anyone have the pics for this still? My goal is to rgb mod my pal unit and getting running at 60hz. I'm not concerned about composite out.