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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: elmer on April 01, 2017, 07:51:43 AM

Title: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: elmer on April 01, 2017, 07:51:43 AM
The PCE can put so many colors on screen at once ... but you often don't see anywhere near that many displayed in games, especially early ones.

Does anyone have an idea what graphics tools were available to developers at the time?

I'm going to guess that the standard development tool would have been a PC98 computer ... but they didn't get 256-color graphics cards until one single "multimedia" model, the PC98GS, appeared in October 1991, follow one year later by the launch of the PC9821-series in October 1992 with 256-color graphics as standard.

I guess that the artists could have used the Sharp X68000, which had 256-color graphics back in 1987, but those were very expensive at the time ... OTOH, since Hudson played a significant part in the X68000, it would make sense for them to write some custom graphics editors for it.

Does anyone know what the official development systems plugged into?

Do any of the original Hudson graphics tools exist?
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: ccovell on April 01, 2017, 01:23:40 PM
Does anyone know what the official development systems plugged into?

I don't know about all companies, but the official dev systems were connected to PC-9801 computers.  Who knows how they handled the colour limitations of computers in the '80s...?  But here's a link and video footage to give some hints:

http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/PCE_1989Q4.html#pcedev

https://youtu.be/YDgEMeubib4?t=466


Do any of the original Hudson graphics tools exist?

Yes!  I think they were found in the ISO of ACD Art of Fighting or somesuch.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 01, 2017, 04:27:30 PM
My guess is that the artists could only see one palette at a time while making their graphics, but then again what do I know? I've done no research...
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Groover on April 01, 2017, 05:10:28 PM
Does anyone know what the official development systems plugged into?

I don't know about all companies, but the official dev systems were connected to PC-9801 computers.  Who knows how they handled the colour limitations of computers in the '80s...?  But here's a link and video footage to give some hints:

http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/PCE_1989Q4.html#pcedev

https://youtu.be/YDgEMeubib4?t=466


Do any of the original Hudson graphics tools exist?

Yes!  I think they were found in the ISO of ACD Art of Fighting or somesuch.


Great video showing them making the game. I thought of this video when I read the question and this is the answer.
Title: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on April 02, 2017, 01:51:44 AM
Covell! Your scan with the Ultra Box image reminded me of the TurboPlay article on ICOM development of Addams Family!

I am curious about what development hardware/software/tools from Japan may have found there way to US...

BELOW: Japan circa 1989/1990...UltraBox ( http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/PCE_1989Q4.html#pcedev )
 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/TP-09-08_compare.jpg)
 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/TP-09-08_detail.jpg)
ABOVE: US circa 1991...Addams Family

Am I silly for thinking this is the same graphics editor?





If you read the short article from TurboPlay:

(1) I am really curious if anyone can figure out what the "IBM PC" (as stated in the article) is specifically referring to?

(2) Was the graphics editor software ported? Emulated? Is the article mistaken? (Is ICOM actually is using PC-98/X6800)?

The article does mention:

(3) ICOM had their own software for taking Studio 8 (Mac) art assets --> ______________

(4) ICOM developed a way to stream data from CD to reduce frequency/length of loading sessions and achieve "smooth scrolling" --> "...so there is no need for upgraded SCD" (this sounds like marketing/sales copy, but who knows?)

(5) This article holds up well, I think.


The Making of Addams Family:
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-06.jpg
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-07.jpg
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-08.jpg
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-09.jpg

TurboPlay: http://archives.tg-16.com/turbo_play_0009.htm#p06
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on April 02, 2017, 07:46:22 PM
Hmmmm, it does look similar!
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: ccovell on April 02, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
Am I silly for thinking this is the same graphics editor?
(2) Was the graphics editor software ported? Emulated? Is the article mistaken? (Is ICOM actually is using PC-98/X6800)?


You are silly but for unrelated reasons.  ;-D

It probably is the same software, and I think Hudson made MS-DOS versions of their software for Western developers.
NEC also charged an arm and a leg for the devkit and the software was reportedly totally crap to boot.  IIRC, Mike Dailly, who programmed Ballistix and Shadow of the Beast for the PCE/TG, wrote about this.

Here: http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/DMA3_5.htm
http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/DMA4_1.htm
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on April 03, 2017, 12:01:29 AM
Am I silly for thinking this is the same graphics editor?
(2) Was the graphics editor software ported? Emulated? Is the article mistaken? (Is ICOM actually is using PC-98/X6800)?


You are silly but for unrelated reasons.  ;-D

It probably is the same software, and I think Hudson made MS-DOS versions of their software for Western developers.
NEC also charged an arm and a leg for the devkit and the software was reportedly totally crap to boot.  IIRC, Mike Dailly, who programmed Ballistix and Shadow of the Beast for the PCE/TG, wrote about this.

Here: http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/DMA3_5.htm
http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/DMA4_1.htm


Thanks :)

I had fun just now reading all the pages, not just the TG-16-themed ones.

I think you linked to this before, but I didn't read everything until now.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: elmer on April 03, 2017, 01:46:41 PM
I don't know about all companies, but the official dev systems were connected to PC-9801 computers.  Who knows how they handled the colour limitations of computers in the '80s...?  But here's a link and video footage to give some hints:

http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/PCE_1989Q4.html#pcedev

https://youtu.be/YDgEMeubib4?t=466

The Making of Addams Family:
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-06.jpg
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-07.jpg
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-08.jpg
http://archives.tg-16.com/TURBOPLAY/TP-09-09.jpg

Thanks guys, those were all really interesting!

I've never seen one of those devkits in use.

Weren't Hudson's offices a mess!  :wink:


Am I silly for thinking this is the same graphics editor?
(2) Was the graphics editor software ported? Emulated? Is the article mistaken? (Is ICOM actually is using PC-98/X6800)?


You are silly but for unrelated reasons.  ;-D

It probably is the same software, and I think Hudson made MS-DOS versions of their software for Western developers.

I finally dug out the docs ... yep, it was ported for Western developers.

It ran in DOS on an IBM PC/AT, and had a ISA card with an 8255 chip on it for interfacing with the Hu7 devkit.

The graphics editor described is the same one thats in all those pictures, and it supported displaying the sprites/maps on the TV screen that was connected to the devkit.

So that's how Japanese developers were able to see more than the one 16-color palette as they were creating their background maps.

That would probably be a bit difficult to work with, but, as-the-saying-goes, where there's a will.

It would certainly explain why ICOM were creating their background maps on a Mac II with its 256-color screen and Electronic Arts' Studio/8, and then running everything through their own conversion tools.


Do any of the original Hudson graphics tools exist?

Yes!  I think they were found in the ISO of ACD Art of Fighting or somesuch.

Ah ... yep ... some-kind-soul-here gave me a dump of those files a while back.  :wink:

I hadn't looked at them seriously because I thought that they were PC-98 programs.

But, just-in-case, I fired-up a copy of DOS in VirtualPC 2007, and as Chris presumably already knows ...


(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3951/33825605535_c66c074110_o.png)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2862/33825605725_af40987cc0_o.png)


Wow!  :shock:

With a 1993 version date, this is probably one of the final DOS versions of the editor before Hudson made their Windows editor (that we see as the "AGE" editor in the PC-FX SDK).
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 03, 2017, 03:14:59 PM
This stuff is seriously fascinating!
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Black Tiger on April 03, 2017, 04:39:06 PM
There's some more Turbo dev info here:

http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2010/03/lords-of-turbo-pantheon-icoms-dave.html?m=1
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: elmer on April 06, 2017, 07:28:14 AM
There's some more Turbo dev info here:

Thanks! That was a good-read, too.  :)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on April 07, 2017, 03:53:57 PM
This thread blossomed in the past few days!

Thanks for all the info, comrades!

I love this stuff.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Bock on July 25, 2017, 05:06:54 PM
Hello,

I am Bock/Omar, this is my first post (recently put the Off the Wall dump online, I am also the developer of The Dragon's Trap remake).

I met a PC Engine era artist recently, who worked in Hong Kong, and he said he had some related software to send me soon. He says the tools are for DOS. I'll let you know what I have and if he is happy with me releasing them.

-Omar
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Punch on July 25, 2017, 05:30:11 PM
Omar, thanks for joining us, and thanks for looking into that, too. Please let us know how it goes :)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on July 25, 2017, 05:53:49 PM
Good to see you, comrade.

:)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gilbert on July 25, 2017, 08:41:43 PM
Speaking of Hudson's development unit in Hong Kong, they actually sponsored a (really obscure) TV drama series (sorry, Chinese Wikipedia page only) here in the early 90's, which was about a certain game designer who created Bomberman(yeah... and I am not making this up; the script writers were) and a girl supposed to be a game character (in Cotton even, according to the Wikipedia page, but I couldn't remember this) he designed somehow came to life in reality. The story was just clinched and silly like this and it was not very good IMO.

However, there were loads of references to Hudson PCE games (mostly visually as props such as game flyers and game screens on monitors; the descriptions were all made up) and it used a lot of game musics as BGMs (most frequently and blatantly the AWESOME CDDA tracks from Far East of Eden II).

I bet there might be some scenes that some of the PCE development tools were shown on screen too.

AFAIK that division worked on the PCE version of Ninja Ryuukenden, which was quite obvious as it contained a secret language switch code to switch the game between Japanese, English(even though this version was never released in the west I think) and Chinese. This may account for why this version was considered lacking in some aspects(ESPECIALLY the parallax scrolling part), which was probably due to the people there not being experienced enough at the time.

This is confirmed from GDRI (http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Hudson-Era_H.K.) and apparently they developed Cotton too. That explains why Cotton appeared in that TV drama. Considering the (extremely) frequently appearance of Bomberman in the show it is quite possible that they are responsible for (co?)developing some of the Bomberman games too.

And yeah. It's nice to hear someone who used to work there BITD still has the tools.
Title: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on July 25, 2017, 11:31:58 PM
gilbert—intriguing! Your info about the Hudson TV drama corroborates info on the specific games Hudson HK directly worked on (Bock/Omar can elaborate).



ALSO:

(1) It would be fun to document all the PCE and/or Hudson assets/IP/references that appeared in the show.  It was both *frugal* and *brand-centric* to recycle music, art and IP assets for a TV show. I am assuming that the TV drama was a very short-lived project, however? Still, a TV "drama" is an interesting marketing tactic to promote brand/products.

(2) Bomberman as a "brand" in HK market... did Bomberman have broad appeal, in HK market? Bomberman spanned many consoles over many years...it certainly had the potential...but, for all I know, some other Hudson game/franchise may have been wildly popular in HK market at that time).

(3) I HAVE TO ASK: Do you remember if Blodia (HuCARD) ever had a cameo or passing reference in the TV show? (I know it is unlikely  that Blodia would ever make such an appearance...and even less likely that you would remember such a thing). Forgive me for this silly request.



Hudson HK:
(1) Cotton
(2) Ninja Ryuukenden
(3)
(4)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Necromancer on July 26, 2017, 02:40:53 AM
Welcome aboard, Bock!  Thanks for the Off the Wall dump.

Three cheers for Bock!!!  :clap:




Welcome aboard, gilbert!  That sounds like an interesting but odd way to advertise.  Was TV time relatively cheap to purchase in HK at the time?  I assume it cost a pretty penny to produce and air such a show, which wouldn't be a great investment of advertising dollars if it weren't very good and nobody watched.

But now I wanna watch it.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gilbert on July 26, 2017, 06:18:58 AM
(1) It would be fun to document all the PCE and/or Hudson assets/IP/references that appeared in the show.  It was both *frugal* and *brand-centric* to recycle music, art and IP assets for a TV show. I am assuming that the TV drama was a very short-lived project, however? Still, a TV "drama" is an interesting marketing tactic to promote brand/products.
Yeah it would be fun, but as it's been more than two decades ago I couldn't recall much details. That and the series was quite boring and childish didn't help. I think it's hard to find some clips of it now (AFAIK it did have some VCD/DVD releases but obviously I don't have them), maybe on some mainland video sharing site but I think it would not be safe to check (last I checked, only its theme song was available on Youtube, as this song was indeed a large hit bitd). If Wikipedia is to believe it had 20 episodes, which was indeed relatively short for 90's standard here.

Quote
(2) Bomberman as a "brand" in HK market... did Bomberman have broad appeal, in HK market? Bomberman spanned many consoles over many years...it certainly had the potential...but, for all I know, some other Hudson game/franchise may have been wildly popular in HK market at that time).
The Bomberman games were quite popular among gamers here, but not very well known to the general public. I don't think any single Hudson franchise was very popular here either. At least to do the system justice the PCE did equally well as the Mega Drive and SFC here, unlike the TG16 disaster. As I mentioned the descriptions in that series were all made up, so while Bomberman imageries were frequently brought up in the show they're referred to as something else, something stupid like Marble Man or whatever. Ironically, the B-da Man Bomberman anime series were then aired here and they're quite popular (here the Bombermen were indeed literally referred to as Marble Men here, which is actually quite fitting, as if you didn't know it already, B-da Man is a toy franchise featuring figures shooting marbles, which initially licensed Bomberman characters for the figures) and years later when the proper Bomberman spinoff Bomberman Jetters aired here it's still considered part of the B-da Man franchise here, so you got funny things like the characters throwing a bomb while saying they're shooting a marble(which could also be regarded as a form of censorship, as bomb throwing may be considered inappropriate in a kids' show by some moral guardians).

Quote
(3) I HAVE TO ASK: Do you remember if Blodia (HuCARD) ever had a cameo or passing reference in the TV show? (I know it is unlikely  that Blodia would ever make such an appearance...and even less likely that you would remember such a thing). Forgive me for this silly request.
As I mentioned I couldn't remember and confirm this, but it's possible that it did somehow appeared in the show.

I think Bock may have a better chance to learn which games were developed by this division now that he has a connection.
Title: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on July 26, 2017, 06:33:03 AM
Gilbert—thanks for the wealth of info, I did not know about the interweaving Bomberman <--> Marble Man (B-Da Man) franchise history! Crazy.

:)


(3) I HAVE TO ASK: Do you remember if Blodia (HuCARD) ever had a cameo or passing reference in the TV show? (I know it is unlikely  that Blodia would ever make such an appearance...and even less likely that you would remember such a thing). Forgive me for this silly request.
As I mentioned I couldn't remember and confirm this, but it's possible that it did somehow appeared in the show.

I understand, naturally.

So, obviously, I simply have an unhealthy obsession with Blodia...but, based on what you said about the "Marble Man", Blodia could ***easily*** be marketed as a puzzle game that goes into the B-Da Man franchise (OK, I admit this is very weak, but—hey!—I am going to stoke the flames of my little fantasy).




Again, thank you for helping to demystify the Hudson/PCE scene in HK.

Feel free to share *anything* with us (we are ravenous) about *anything*  (but mostly PCE).

:)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: elmer on July 26, 2017, 12:07:14 PM
Hi Omar & Gilbert!

It's always nice to see foreign fans find their way here, and super-thanks to Omar for that prototype dump!  :dance:

It's always nice to see more of the original tools get released, especially if they are versions that don't actually need a devkit attached in order to run.

It would be really lovely to know if there are any transitional or developer-only art tools between that 1993 version of CE that was found on the Art of Fighting CD, and the AGE editor that was in the PC-FXGA SDK!

I should probably scan the English Hu7 System2 dev-system docs at some point, but there really hasn't been much point when nobody seems to have/run the actual old hardware anymore.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: turboswimbz on July 26, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
What an awesome thread.  Much thanks to gilbert and bock.   

Estebannnnnnnnnn! we need to remember this thread 3 years from now when it comes up we know how to reference it.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gheebee on July 27, 2017, 04:57:09 AM
Might this be the TV show that was mentioned: http://www.yesasia.com/global/romance-beyond-dvd-end-tvb-drama/1004862246-0-0-0-en/info.html ?
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: xelement5x on July 27, 2017, 05:06:03 AM
Might this be the TV show that was mentioned: http://www.yesasia.com/global/romance-beyond-dvd-end-tvb-drama/1004862246-0-0-0-en/info.html ?


After reading the description:
Quote
Game designer Chung (Frankie Lam) is creating a game about female warrior Ding Dong (Athena Chu) fighting against the vicious Salomi (Emily Kwan). In a strike of lightning, the computer game characters jump from the screen to the real world. Mistaking the lovably clueless Ding Dong as an illegal immigrant, Chung lets her crash in his apartment, and gradually falls in love with her. Ding Dong, however, knowing the virtual nature of her identity, refuses to accept Chung as her boyfriend. Meanwhile, Chung's brother (Vincent Lam) has a crush on Ding Dong, and the daughter (Money Lo) of Chung's uncle also falls in love with Chung...


I am sold.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gheebee on July 27, 2017, 05:32:16 AM
Yeah, it sounded right but I was having some issues matching the actor credits from the Chinese Wikipedia page with other sources. It's too bad that there are no English subs on the discs and that, unsurprisingly, no fansubs appear to be available for this though.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: sanjo on July 27, 2017, 01:43:07 PM
The PCE can put so many colors on screen at once ... but you often don't see anywhere near that many displayed in games, especially early ones.


That's something I've always been wondering about too. The gap in graphics between early PCE and late PCE games were so huge!
early games really looked more like an NES/FC plus. Arguably comparable or worse than early Gen/MD games.  But towards the end, some really awesome stuff came out that looked very comparable to mid.. and sometimes even late era SNES/SFC games with its rich palette. Xanadu 2 for example, looks like a Square game.

Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: ccovell on July 27, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
Various reasons for early PCE games having low-colour graphics: the companies that moved to PCE early were 1) existing Famicom developers, using existing 4-colour or inappropriate tools; 2) then Japanese home computer developers, who were accustomed to 16 colours or less with tons of ordered dithering; 3) doing their graphics work on MSX machines (seriously!) etc etc.

Mega Drive developers were... arcade and X68000 developers.  The worst-looking MD games were from Japanese home computer devs, naturally.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on July 28, 2017, 04:34:51 AM
Might this be the TV show that was mentioned: http://www.yesasia.com/global/romance-beyond-dvd-end-tvb-drama/1004862246-0-0-0-en/info.html ?


After reading the description:
Quote
Game designer Chung (Frankie Lam) is creating a game about female warrior Ding Dong (Athena Chu) fighting against the vicious Salomi (Emily Kwan). In a strike of lightning, the computer game characters jump from the screen to the real world. Mistaking the lovably clueless Ding Dong as an illegal immigrant, Chung lets her crash in his apartment, and gradually falls in love with her. Ding Dong, however, knowing the virtual nature of her identity, refuses to accept Chung as her boyfriend. Meanwhile, Chung's brother (Vincent Lam) has a crush on Ding Dong, and the daughter (Money Lo) of Chung's uncle also falls in love with Chung...


I am sold.


I ordered the DVDs (shipping label printed, but not yet @post office).

I will report when they arrive and take the screen captures.

If only I could convince my colleague at work to translate this (she is too busy...but she can help with little bits here and there).

:)

Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Bock on July 31, 2017, 06:18:48 PM
This is confirmed from GDRI (http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Hudson-Era_H.K.) and apparently they developed Cotton too. That explains why Cotton appeared in that TV drama. Considering the (extremely) frequently appearance of Bomberman in the show it is quite possible that they are responsible for (co?)developing some of the Bomberman games too.


Just to confirm what you said (I should have written it in my original post): the guy explicitly told me he worked on Ninja Ryuukenden and Cotton. That's the only ones he mentioned but maybe he team-mates worked on more, or maybe he left before further games. Next time I see him I will try to clarify.

He also had pictures on his phone from some retro newspaper/magazine with him surrounded in boards and games.

Gilbert are you in Hong-Kong? Since I have made that connection and shared it with people who knew him but didn't know his Hudson past, I think he will come to RetroHK on Aug 10-13 and maybe there'll be a Q&A or something. Anyway if you are around it would be nice to ask him stuff. His English isn't so good and my Cantonese is non-existent.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gilbert on July 31, 2017, 06:35:12 PM
Gilbert are you in Hong-Kong? Since I have made that connection and shared it with people who knew him but didn't know his Hudson past, I think he will come to RetroHK on Aug 10-13 and maybe there'll be a Q&A or something. Anyway if you are around it would be nice to ask him stuff. His English isn't so good and my Cantonese is non-existent.

Yes. I live in Hong Kong. I may be available at that time, depending on how busy I am.
Also, just noticed that I've been to this event two years before (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12969&start=30#p159837), mainly after that Play Station prototype.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on August 01, 2017, 02:57:52 AM
ASIDE:

ROMANCE BEYOND arrived yesterday. I may have time to get some screen caps from the actual show (featuring, hopefully, some Hudson IP making cameo appearances!)

(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/obey_beyond_romance.jpg)

The date on the box says "1992" but it may have aired later...

Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: xelement5x on August 01, 2017, 05:07:41 AM
The box art and color scheme just SCREAMS "Disney's Aladdin" to me.  I hope there is a sassy genie.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Gredler on August 01, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
This has been one of my favorite threads here; thank you so much for sharing the links and information - took me a while to read all this stuff but worth every minute - awesome!
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: imparanoic on August 01, 2017, 03:41:56 PM
Gilbert are you in Hong-Kong? Since I have made that connection and shared it with people who knew him but didn't know his Hudson past, I think he will come to RetroHK on Aug 10-13 and maybe there'll be a Q&A or something. Anyway if you are around it would be nice to ask him stuff. His English isn't so good and my Cantonese is non-existent.

Yes. I live in Hong Kong. I may be available at that time, depending on how busy I am.
Also, just noticed that I've been to this event two years before (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12969&start=30#p159837), mainly after that Play Station prototype.


I was also there at retrohk event 2 years ago with sony super famicom cd prototype
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: imparanoic on August 01, 2017, 03:46:50 PM
This is confirmed from GDRI (http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Hudson-Era_H.K.) and apparently they developed Cotton too. That explains why Cotton appeared in that TV drama. Considering the (extremely) frequently appearance of Bomberman in the show it is quite possible that they are responsible for (co?)developing some of the Bomberman games too.


Just to confirm what you said (I should have written it in my original post): the guy explicitly told me he worked on Ninja Ryuukenden and Cotton. That's the only ones he mentioned but maybe he team-mates worked on more, or maybe he left before further games. Next time I see him I will try to clarify.

He also had pictures on his phone from some retro newspaper/magazine with him surrounded in boards and games.

Gilbert are you in Hong-Kong? Since I have made that connection and shared it with people who knew him but didn't know his Hudson past, I think he will come to RetroHK on Aug 10-13 and maybe there'll be a Q&A or something. Anyway if you are around it would be nice to ask him stuff. His English isn't so good and my Cantonese is non-existent.



do you need a japanese to cantonese translator or a japanese to english translator? maybe the local retro game facebook members can help you ( some of them know japanese and can provide assistance ) , who is this hudson soft person?

I also believe the retrohk event is arranged by Dixon Wu who i have meet before and he is an editor for a non gaming magazine in Hong Kong, but has strong interest in retro gaming, hence, why he arranged and created sponsors for the public debut unveiling of the sony super famicom cd rom prototype with the US owners -- Mr Terry Diebold
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Bock on August 02, 2017, 05:10:18 AM
Yes I am in contact with Dixon and he invited Ken Cheung who was the artist at Hudson HK.
Dixon might be able to help to question him :D
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Michirin9801 on August 02, 2017, 11:47:54 AM
Wow, I should have kept reading this thread because some fascinating stuff was posted and I missed out on it until now!
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: imparanoic on August 02, 2017, 02:43:20 PM
Yes I am in contact with Dixon and he invited Ken Cheung who was the artist at Hudson HK.
Dixon might be able to help to question him :D


hudson soft had an office in HK? really?
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gilbert on August 02, 2017, 03:56:59 PM
hudson soft had an office in HK? really?
Yes. If you read some of the posts from Bock's 1st post (that's the 2nd last post from the first page) onwards you should know already.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: imparanoic on August 02, 2017, 09:52:34 PM
hudson soft had an office in HK? really?
Yes. If you read some of the posts from Bock's 1st post (that's the 2nd last post from the first page) onwards you should know already.

I am impressed, i presume that hong kong didn't have any relevant game development history, but they do, something i just learnt today!
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Digi.k on October 07, 2017, 06:56:47 AM
I saw some folks by the name of Tomwhite2004 and Vespa who posts on another forum put these up.  I hope they don't mind me stealing them but I thought of this thread when I saw them.  They are not necessarily pc engine but they are of the same era ?


Hoping these haven't been posted already.
(https://ges.blob.core.windows.net/screenshots/b9yGy05MYECVBIgdSuMgJg.png)

(https://ges.blob.core.windows.net/screenshots/owhXIui99kyd7Tc8gIm5KQ.png)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/1b52841652e03bf924680624f806f450/tumblr_oc2lnb03oi1ulp8mfo4_1280.jpg)

(https://massappeal.com/wp-content/uploads/sega_pixel_art_digitizer1.jpg)

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/a577d3eab75fcb2e154ec9c037e4b5d9/tumblr_inline_oq8p3vMTzd1tgxtpe_500.jpg)

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/d4b6a3cdbf909158e2c44301d9ea2661/tumblr_inline_opbz36TccV1tgxtpe_500.jpg)

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/8f8dd0ab4660f7f38edc7538ecdb76a5/tumblr_o98xg8iIez1ulp8mfo1_1280.png)

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/225d88699aa398ca62a61cd4f0019669/tumblr_o98xg8iIez1ulp8mfo3_1280.png)

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/d55799ce764206c3fe88c9b18ab686d6/tumblr_oc2lnb03oi1ulp8mfo5_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Gredler on October 17, 2017, 09:11:42 AM
Those pics are fantastic, thanks for sharing!
Title: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on October 17, 2017, 09:52:08 AM
Those pics are fantastic, thanks for sharing!

Absolutely!

(https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji4.png)

Hopefully, folks will dig up more stuff.


:)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gilbert on October 19, 2017, 07:23:11 PM
Reading random articles from Iwasaki's blog (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/), I came across this:
http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/index.php?e=124
It briefly explains how you work with DF. And for those confused, DF was just CE mentioned earlier here, as explained in another entry (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/index.php?e=75), that while CE (Character Editor) was the official graphics editor of the PCE, the version used internally by Hudson actually supported both PCE and Famicom, and they just shifted each alphabet of the name up and called it DF (just like how HAL in 2001 was actually named after IBM, by shifting each alphabet down). It seemed that many tools worked with both PCE and Famicom (at least the versions used internally by Hudson), as at least AS (Assembler) and LK (Linker) both had a Famicom mode.

As if I haven't plugged it enough, just OBEY and bookmark Iwasaki's blog (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/)!

If you didn't know it already, he was a columnist of game magazines BiTD, who also happened to be a chief programmer in Hudson. He's a director of Ys I+II, Far East of Eden II and later, Emerald Dragon. so language barrier aside, his blog is full of game related stuff, especially those related to PCE or Hudson, and there are also many valuable information on game design and technical stuff.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on October 20, 2017, 08:49:12 AM
Reading random articles from Iwasaki's blog (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/), I came across this:
http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/index.php?e=124
It briefly explains how you work with DF. And for those confused, DF was just CE mentioned earlier here, as explained in another entry (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/index.php?e=75), that while CE (Character Editor) was the official graphics editor of the PCE, the version used internally by Hudson actually supported both PCE and Famicom, and they just shifted each alphabet of the name up and called it DF (just like how HAL in 2001 was actually named after IBM, by shifting each alphabet down). It seemed that many tools worked with both PCE and Famicom (at least the versions used internally by Hudson), as at least AS (Assembler) and LK (Linker) both had a Famicom mode.

As if I haven't plugged it enough, just OBEY and bookmark Iwasaki's blog (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/)!

If you didn't know it already, he was a columnist of game magazines BiTD, who also happened to be a chief programmer in Hudson. He's a director of Ys I+II, Far East of Eden II and later, Emerald Dragon. so language barrier aside, his blog is full of game related stuff, especially those related to PCE or Hudson, and there are also many valuable information on game design and technical stuff.


He is an intriguing figure, considering his unique perspective (how many folks have seen the industry from these vantage points?).

Surprisingly, he awarded PCE Deep Blue a score of 11/10 in  Famitsu (1983 Special Edition).
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: spenoza on October 23, 2017, 06:18:38 AM
Drive developers were... arcade and X68000 developers.  The worst-looking MD games were from Japanese home computer devs, naturally.

It seems odd to me that X68000 devs would make bad looking games. The X68k tended to have graphically impressive titles.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: ccovell on October 23, 2017, 02:50:09 PM
Drive developers were... arcade and X68000 developers.  The worst-looking MD games were from Japanese home computer devs, naturally.
It seems odd to me that X68000 devs would make bad looking games. The X68k tended to have graphically impressive titles.

By that I meant MSX and NEC PC-88 etc home computers.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Phase on November 06, 2017, 03:04:12 PM
Mainly sega stuff but still interesting. (This is part 2 of 3 videos)
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: gilbert on November 06, 2017, 03:41:45 PM
sega stuff

Speaking of which, this is what EOA used to develop their PC and MD games BiTD:
http://www.bionictoad.com/animax/
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Digi.k on April 17, 2018, 01:31:47 PM
Random stuff but I'm gonna add it here before I forget about them..

(http://www.smspower.org/forums/files/147219766612883099_713.jpg)

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JohnSzczepaniak/20140916/225685/PC_Engine_interviews_taken_from_The_Untold_History_of_Japanese_Game_Developers.php

https://qz.com/766684/segas-video-game-artists-had-to-draw-pixels-by-hand-on-crazy-custom-machines-in-the-1980s-and-90s/



Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: esteban on April 17, 2018, 03:53:52 PM
Random stuff but I'm gonna add it here before I forget about them..

(http://www.smspower.org/forums/files/147219766612883099_713.jpg)

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JohnSzczepaniak/20140916/225685/PC_Engine_interviews_taken_from_The_Untold_History_of_Japanese_Game_Developers.php

https://qz.com/766684/segas-video-game-artists-had-to-draw-pixels-by-hand-on-crazy-custom-machines-in-the-1980s-and-90s/


Goddamn.

How do I go about listing the three volumes this dude put out?

SRSLY.
Title: Re: How did Japanese developers create their artwork?
Post by: Digi.k on April 22, 2018, 05:12:14 AM
I'm in the middle of watching  this right now but from 7.31 there is an interesting segment from Masayuki Suzuki who was as NCS/Masaya