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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Amerika on September 21, 2017, 01:15:40 PM
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Hello!
I recently purchased a Memory Base 128 to backup my PC Engine Duo-R saves and I have ran into a pretty big issue that I can't get resolved via Googling.
I am using Emerald Dragon, as detailed here: http://pce.lifeabroad.org/mb128.html. If I save from my system to the Memory Base 128, it copies without an issue. However, if I try to copy a save from the Memory Base 128 to my PC Engine, the software locks up and I get a really loud humming noise. I also, without fail, lose any saves on my PC Engine but not on the MB 128. This sucks because I lost a save where I was a few hours into Dynastic Hero :(
Does anybody have any knowledge on if I am doing something wrong or if the MB 128 or maybe my Duo-R is causing the issue?
Oh, I tried it with and without batteries in the MB128 but I got the same results.
Here is a Youtube video of the issue if anybody wants to see/hear it. I do give a warning to turn down your volume though before I click the button that starts the problem. So fair warning :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fpU6FebXO8
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I have both mem 128 and emerald dragon but sadly my mem 128 is dead... so I can't test this out :/
EDIT
Magicoal has a similar problem in that you can save to the mem 128 but if you load from it the game will just hang.
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I have both mem 128 and emerald dragon but sadly my mem 128 is dead... so I can't test this out :/
EDIT
Magicoal has a similar problem in that you can save to the mem 128 but if you load from it the game will just hang.
I totally forgot..but a few weeks ago I made this Pastebin that contains all of the games that either use the MB128 natively or have programs to interface with it.
https://pastebin.com/wDJQEz3U
I am going to try Popful Mail and Linda and see where that gets me.
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As far as I remember, the MB128 utility in Emerald Dragon wasn't very reliable and I've lost a couple of saves BiTD. I used the utility in Private Eye Doll instead (note: the format is not compatible with those in Emerald Dragon, so if you transfer your BRAM saves to a file in MB128 with Emerald Dragon, you cannot restore it with Private Eye Doll).
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As far as I remember, the MB128 utility in Emerald Dragon wasn't very reliable and I've lost a couple of saves BiTD. I used the utility in Private Eye Doll instead (note: the format is not compatible with those in Emerald Dragon, so if you transfer your BRAM saves to a file in MB128 with Emerald Dragon, you cannot restore it with Private Eye Doll).
I just tried Linda3 and it has what appears to be the exact same application as Emerald Dragon. It has the same lockup too.
I tried Popful mail and it took a little while to figure out what was going on but it seems like I can't transfer files back and forth with the utility in that game.
I tried out A Train III as I just wanted to see if saving/loading from the MB128 worked in a compatible game and I could not figure out how to save games directly to the MB128. All 4 slots all went to the PC Engine itself.
I'll try out Private Eye Dol...where is the save feature located? And do you mean that if I have an Emerald Dragon save only or do you mean more games? Mostly I am interested in the Y's series and Dynastic hero for now. I can't play Emerald Dragon or Private Eye Dol, sadly, due to my severe lack of ability in reading Japanese. Which sucks because Private Eye Dol looks pretty awesome.
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I'll try out Private Eye Dol...where is the save feature located? And do you mean that if I have an Emerald Dragon save only or do you mean more games? Mostly I am interested in the Ys series and Dynastic hero for now. I can't play Emerald Dragon or Private Eye Dol, sadly, due to my severe lack of ability in reading Japanese. Which sucks because Private Eye Dol looks pretty awesome.
It's the last option in the title screen:
(http://pcecp.com/.img/PCE/p/prveyedl/title.jpg)
(Screenshot borrowed from PCECP.com. The three options are "Start", "Continue" and "Backup Utility".)
You can backup entire content of your backup RAM to the MB128 (and then restore them), just like Emerald Dragon or Ten no Koe Bank. As far as I remember, it probably does other things such as copying files, etc. It's much polished and stable than the one in Emerald Dragon.
I don't know why when talking about this matter, everyone recommends Emerald Dragon, but my memory with its utility wasn't good. It's as buggy as the game itself. Maybe it's because Private Eye Doll, as a visual novel, was a bit obscure for westerners, that nobody even dared to try it.
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I'll try out Private Eye Dol...where is the save feature located? And do you mean that if I have an Emerald Dragon save only or do you mean more games? Mostly I am interested in the Ys series and Dynastic hero for now. I can't play Emerald Dragon or Private Eye Dol, sadly, due to my severe lack of ability in reading Japanese. Which sucks because Private Eye Dol looks pretty awesome.
It's the last option in the title screen:
(http://pcecp.com/.img/PCE/p/prveyedl/title.jpg)
(Screenshot borrowed from PCECP.com. The three options are "Start", "Continue" and "Backup Utility".)
You can backup entire content of your backup RAM to the MB128 (and then restore them), just like Emerald Dragon or Ten no Koe Bank. As far as I remember, it probably does other things such as copying files, etc. It's much polished and stable than the one in Emerald Dragon.
I don't know why when talking about this matter, everyone recommends Emerald Dragon, but my memory with its utility wasn't good. It's as buggy as the game itself. Maybe it's because Private Eye Doll, as a visual novel, was a bit obscure for westerners, that nobody even dared to try it.
I should have tried the game before asking. I found the menu and I also got far enough in the game to make my own save from the in-game menu system. However, I could not figure out how to transfer save files or banks around. There is what appears to be a Copy option which I can't figure out. Then to it's right is a copy all function which seems to copy all the contents of the PCE to any bank I want on the MB128. Then the bottom left option, I believe, is a format option? I lost all my saves on the 128 when I chose it. And the bottom right option I thought was an erase but I am not sure.
So, if I have this straight, I can use the second copy all option and copy everything from the "PC" (first in the list) option to any bank in the MB 128. So when I run out of room, I copy to those banks and then delete files to make space. And if I ever want those files back, I just copy that bank back to the PC option in the menu?
If that is correct, then I can use that utility to do what I want instead of Emerald Dragon. And it's a hell of a lot safer than using an HuCard bank option since this thing allows me to change the batteries while it's plugged in without losing all my saves.
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OK, so I got it all figured out and my Memory Base 128 is saved thanks to Gilbert :)
The utility, once you know what to do, is quite nice. I do not know any of the gotchas in regards to save incompatibilities like what you mentioned with Private Eye Dol and Emerald Dragon. I was able to confirm that Dynastic Hero works though. I made a save on the PCE, I went into Private Eye Dol and copied the save over to a different bank, deleted the save, verified that it was deleted, copied Dynastic Hero save back over to the PCE and fired up Dynastic Hero and I was able to load the game without issue.
I did make a quick video on how to do it for my own reference which I will leave unlisted. However, if you guys think it might be valuable, I could make a better one that is a bit more concise and also tells people NOT to use the bottom left option which, I believe, formats the whole PCE or MB128.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94pwPdKzAZI
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As it's been a while, can you take a picture of the backup utility screen, so that I can just translate what's on it?
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OK, so I think I have this figured out.
I can copy the contents to whatever bank I want using Private Eye Dol fairly easily. However, if I want to view the contents in any of the MB128's banks I first have to copy the contents of that bank to the PC Engine (make sure to backup the PCE first in another bank). Then I load up the Erase tool (bottom right/4th option) and select the PCE. I can then view the individual save files.
Is there a better way to view your saves on the MB 128 than that particular method? It's not a huge issue but I would be totally fine loading up another game if I simply wanted to check out everything I had saved on the MB128 easily. Loading up each bank individually like how I described would be a bit of a PITA in the future after I have more saves. I guess I could always just put the info on a Google Sheet haha.
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I purchased an MB128 a week or two ago, so this thread is going to save me a lot of grief and confusion.
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I purchased an MB128 a week or two ago, so this thread is going to save me a lot of grief and confusion.
Haha, fantastic. Hopefully my video above helps save you some time. Like I said earlier, I might make a better one that fully demonstrates the utility. Google is extremely light on information in this area outside of the one game that seems to not work for multiple people (Emerald Dragon). I almost returned my MB 128 thinking it was defective if it wasn't for Gilbert saving the day.
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I purchased an MB128 a week or two ago, so this thread is going to save me a lot of grief and confusion.
Haha, fantastic. Hopefully my video above helps save you some time. Like I said earlier, I might make a better one that fully demonstrates the utility. Google is extremely light on information in this area outside of the one game that seems to not work for multiple people (Emerald Dragon). I almost returned my MB 128 thinking it was defective if it wasn't for Gilbert saving the day.
Definitely make a video explaining (1) how to use the damn thing and (2) then, document the problems you experienced. That will help a few bastards in the future, especially as a reference/guide.
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I purchased an MB128 a week or two ago, so this thread is going to save me a lot of grief and confusion.
Haha, fantastic. Hopefully my video above helps save you some time. Like I said earlier, I might make a better one that fully demonstrates the utility. Google is extremely light on information in this area outside of the one game that seems to not work for multiple people (Emerald Dragon). I almost returned my MB 128 thinking it was defective if it wasn't for Gilbert saving the day.
Definitely make a video explaining (1) how to use the damn thing and (2) then, document the problems you experienced. That will help a few bastards in the future, especially as a reference/guide.
I already made it...which should get you started. I was simply thinking of making a better one and setting it public that explains things a bit better. I don't have time tonight to do it but I could definitely do it if there isn't some other better resource somebody knows of out there.
This is the video that is linked above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94pwPdKzAZI
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As far as I remember, there are also some quirks, mainly with combinations of what peripherals you have attached to the (single...) joypad port.
Magicoal is one game that supports nearly every peripherals that you can plug in there (Princess Maker 2 is another). It supports the MB128(saves its own game only, not backing up contents of backup RAM), multitap(as it has 2P co-op gameplay), 6-button pads and even the mouse! BUT every time I saved my game to MB128, it couldn't be loaded back (game frozen like the Emerald Dragon case mentioned here), but if I move the save back to the internal BRAM it works. I never figured out what's the problem, until recent years, that I've read somewhere online (sorry, can't find it now) that there is a bug in the game, so that when the multitap and the MB128 are both connected saved games in the MB128 cannot be loaded, i.e. there are some conflicts with some combination of peripherals(I think that's it, as my memory isn't good). Maybe there was a later revision of the game that fixed this glitch (like the recently confirmed fixed Altered Beast), it's frustrating anyway. Maybe Emerald Dragon has similar problems.
I think Lemmings even came with a small piece of paper insert warning players that the game won't work if the MB128 is connected. That is, they found a bug, but couldn't fix it before release. (Another game with funny paper insert was the extremely buggy, awesome, and extremely buggy awesome Monster Maker (I). The paper outright warned players not to save any game at certain location as that would make the game unwinnable. This is not MB128 related but isn't it cute? :dance:). At least this game doesn't use the MB128 anyway, so just remember to remove it from the chain before you control the suicidal rodents. But in Magicoal's case the game actually supports both peripherals but couldn't use them at the same time. Again it's preferable to have the MB128 removed as its saves aren't that large to require it anyways and that 2P co-op is one of the main highlights of the game.
It's a pity they put the nail on the coffin to the original expansion port since the release of Duo, as 100% of the time that was eventually used to connect to the (interface unit of) CD-ROM drive anyway, leaving you with one single JOYPAD port to daisy chain connect with EVERY.SINGLE.EXPANSION. ](*,) Even if it's a slight change that the console came with two joypad ports would have saved a lot of troubles. Plus, it looks horrible as the chain of expansion stuff is a literal chain. In the extreme case, typical setup of my system BiTD would be like:
_______________________
|Duo | |
| | |
| | |
|__________|__________|
|
___|___
|MB128|
|_____|
|
___|___
|MTap |
|_____|
/ | \
/ | \
P1 P2 Mouse
And not infrequently, when you move a bit harder, these stuff just fell off the table. NICE. [-X
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Haha, I will keep that in mind. I actually picked up a multitap and my 2nd controller is a 6 button Hori (it's fantastic). I figure that I won't keep the MB128 hooked up most of the time and only use it to back up/rotate saves around when I need it. So it shouldn't be too huge of an issue I think.
I honestly can't believe NEC never built-in a second controller port for the newer models of the system. I am even trying to think of any of the games I've played so far have had 2p capability...let alone 5.
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As far as I remember, there are also some quirks, mainly with combinations of what peripherals you have attached to the (single...) joypad port.
Magicoal is one game that supports nearly every peripherals that you can plug in there (Princess Maker 2 is another). It supports the MB128(saves its own game only, not backing up contents of backup RAM), multitap(as it has 2P co-op gameplay), 6-button pads and even the mouse! BUT every time I saved my game to MB128, it couldn't be loaded back (game frozen like the Emerald Dragon case mentioned here), but if I move the save back to the internal BRAM it works. I never figured out what's the problem, until recent years, that I've read somewhere online (sorry, can't find it now) that there is a bug in the game, so that when the multitap and the MB128 are both connected saved games in the MB128 cannot be loaded, i.e. there are some conflicts with some combination of peripherals(I think that's it, as my memory isn't good). Maybe there was a later revision of the game that fixed this glitch (like the recently confirmed fixed Altered Beast), it's frustrating anyway. Maybe Emerald Dragon has similar problems.
I think Lemmings even came with a small piece of paper insert warning players that the game won't work if the MB128 is connected. That is, they found a bug, but couldn't fix it before release. (Another game with funny paper insert was the extremely buggy, awesome, and extremely buggy awesome Monster Maker (I). The paper outright warned players not to save any game at certain location as that would make the game unwinnable. This is not MB128 related but isn't it cute? :dance:). At least this game doesn't use the MB128 anyway, so just remember to remove it from the chain before you control the suicidal rodents. But in Magicoal's case the game actually supports both peripherals but couldn't use them at the same time. Again it's preferable to have the MB128 removed as its saves aren't that large to require it anyways and that 2P co-op is one of the main highlights of the game.
It's a pity they put the nail on the coffin to the original expansion port since the release of Duo, as 100% of the time that was eventually used to connect to the (interface unit of) CD-ROM drive anyway, leaving you with one single JOYPAD port to daisy chain connect with EVERY.SINGLE.EXPANSION. ](*,) Even if it's a slight change that the console came with two joypad ports would have saved a lot of troubles. Plus, it looks horrible as the chain of expansion stuff is a literal chain. In the extreme case, typical setup of my system BiTD would be like:
_______________________
|Duo | |
| | |
| | |
|__________|__________|
|
___|___
|MB128|
|_____|
|
___|___
|MTap |
|_____|
/ | \
/ | \
P1 P2 Mouse
And not infrequently, when you move a bit harder, these stuff just fell off the table. NICE. [-X
I thoroughly enjoyed reading every word in this post.
:)
Explain the typical PCE Mouse configuration and how games supported the mouse—please!
Thank you.
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Explain the typical PCE Mouse configuration and how games supported the mouse—please!
Thank you.
As far as I remember, the mouse was released alongside the MB128 to support the games that really needed them, namely, the Koei simulation games (and A-Train III). Other than those, there were only a handful of games that supported it as it was late in the console's life, or, among my library of games, at least.
The mouse actually worked well, but there were also some awkward design choices, such as putting SELECT and RUN on the side of the mouse (IMO it'd be more awesome if they put one of these buttons on top as the middle button to have a 3-button setup), and following the arrangement of the buttons of the joypad, the LMB was Button II and RMB was Button I. This caused problems with some(most?) games as they would use the RMB for confirmation and LMB for canceling. I remember Lemmings was one such game and it was awkward to assign action to the critters by right-clicking. I think some other games would have the buttons properly reversed or could customise the control schemes.
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Explain the typical PCE Mouse configuration and how games supported the mouse—please!
Thank you.
As far as I remember, the mouse was released alongside the MB128 to support the games that really needed them, namely, the Koei simulation games (and A-Train III). Other than those, there were only a handful of games that supported it as it was late in the console's life, or, among my library of games, at least.
The mouse actually worked well, but there were also some awkward design choices, such as putting SELECT and RUN on the side of the mouse (IMO it'd be more awesome if they put one of these buttons on top as the middle button to have a 3-button setup), and following the arrangement of the buttons of the joypad, the LMB was Button II and RMB was Button I. This caused problems with some(most?) games as they would use the RMB for confirmation and LMB for canceling. I remember Lemmings was one such game and it was awkward to assign action to the critters by right-clicking. I think some other games would have the buttons properly reversed or could customise the control schemes.
Yes, this is exactly what I was wondering about.
Thank you for that info.
Feel free to build/expand on this!
For example, I was wondering about Brandish, Power Golf 2, Vasteel 2, etc.
I joked, in the past, about whether or not PCE Mouse would have made BABY JO a more enjoyable game...
:)
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I joked, in the past, about whether or not PCE Mouse would have made BABY JO a more enjoyable game...
Or, use it to control the cameramen in the audience in Wonder MomoGekisha Boy.
Seriously though, both the MB128 and the mouse, if released earlier, could benefit a number of titles. This lost opportunity is unfortunately true for many systems (I think the Super Famicom shared a similar fate; Were there a mouse for the Mega Drive?) and the part with game saving is exceptionally sad, that while a save system with file management is a very cool concept (tried earlier for the Famicom supporting a handful of games), the meager 2kb backup RAM is just horribly too small in size. While it is more than enough saving game high scores and the like, it would be very unfriendly with larger RPGs, strategy games and (especially) simulation games with world building, and that the space has to be shared by all the games you play on the system. This is laughable as battery backed RAM are much larger in some single Famicom carts and even the Famicom Turbo File contains more RAM, if the data are correct. Technically it would be possible to stuff battery backed RAM into Hucards(though the only software that does this is Ten no Koe Bank, and it's not even a game), but CD-ROM games would NEED this external save system anyway, and the irony is that the library of games that mostly require more save RAM are on CD-ROM anyway.
The result is, developers had to find workarounds to solve the save game problem, such as not saving the states of certain treasure boxes (so these treasures could be repeatedly obtained, trick used in many RPGs) and dungeons collapses frequently (to reuse bits for later dungeons, which may make games more linear), etc.
Some games manage to do this brilliantly(one good example is Might & Magic III, in which it uses only 1 bit for 4 opened squares in auto-mapping, though there are some drawbacks), but in most cases the games suffer from this limitation. I can make a whole article for this rant but anyway let's not clutter this thread up too much.
I always wonder whether the 2kb decision is because of RAM price or battery life, as the system uses 8kb for bank switching, it would be much more logical and practical to have 8kb BRAM instead, and that could already help a lot of games.
More amazing is that, it would almost work if the BRAM of the system is just hacked to 8kb, as if it was already planned to be expandable, but this was set as steel since the release of Duo (again) as you can no longer change the "interface unit" between the console and the CD drive. There were a lot of incorrect tech. info. BiTD, that in early versions of some emulators there was 8kb of BRAM (which was corrected in later versions, AFAIK early versions of Magic Engine and Hugo did this), and some games actually worked taking advantage of these extra RAM. Princess Maker I and II in particular, allow for a lot more save slots if there are 8kb of BRAM(possibly affects the Ys games as well). I think they probably gave up the idea of expanding it because that could make some games incompatible, such as (wild guess) when a game uses the whole 2kb for its save, it may just check whether there are any other files in the RAM and forces players to erase them regardless of whether there are 2 or 8kb of RAM in total.
The MB128 was just released too late to be a game changer, and that having to be connected to the JOYPAD port didn't help.
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Or, use it to control the cameramen in the audience in Wonder MomoGekisha Boy.
Seriously though, both the MB128 and the mouse, if released earlier, could benefit a number of titles. This lost opportunity is unfortunately true for many systems (I think the Super Famicom shared a similar fate; Were there a mouse for the Mega Drive?) ...
There were actually two mice released for Sega hardware; one in the US called the Mega Mouse, and the JP/EU version called the Sega Mouse. I think these were actually different hardware too, for example the Sega Mouse can actually be flipped and used as a trackball, where the US version doesn't do that.
Back on topic, I know Brandish for the PCE also supports the mouse, but I'm not sure if it make controlling the game that much easier.
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...
The result is, developers had to find workarounds to solve the save game problem, such as not saving the states of certain treasure boxes (so these treasures could be repeatedly obtained, trick used in many RPGs) and dungeons collapses frequently (to reuse bits for later dungeons, which may make games more linear), etc.
Some games manage to do this brilliantly(one good example is Might & Magic III, in which it uses only 1 bit for 4 opened squares in auto-mapping, though there are some drawbacks), but in most cases the games suffer from this limitation. I can make a whole article for this rant but anyway let's not clutter this thread up too much.
I always wonder whether the 2kb decision is because of RAM price or battery life, as the system uses 8kb for bank switching, it would be much more logical and practical to have 8kb BRAM instead, and that could already help a lot of games.
More amazing is that, it would almost work if the BRAM of the system is just hacked to 8kb, as if it was already planned to be expandable, but this was set as steel since the release of Duo (again) as you can no longer change the "interface unit" between the console and the CD drive. There were a lot of incorrect tech. info. BiTD, that in early versions of some emulators there was 8kb of BRAM (which was corrected in later versions, AFAIK early versions of Magic Engine and Hugo did this), and some games actually worked taking advantage of these extra RAM. Princess Maker I and II in particular, allow for a lot more save slots if there are 8kb of BRAM(possibly affects the Ys games as well). I think they probably gave up the idea of expanding it because that could make some games incompatible, such as (wild guess) when a game uses the whole 2kb for its save, it may just check whether there are any other files in the RAM and forces players to erase them regardless of whether there are 2 or 8kb of RAM in total.
The MB128 was just released too late to be a game changer, and that having to be connected to the JOYPAD port didn't help.
Ha! I never considered that some metadata was “dropped” to make save files smaller and more versatile.
I remember developing my own password system for a game I was making on Apple II (in middle school) and quickly feeling overwhelmed by the inventory (let alone tracking triggers/key plot points). It quickly became unwieldy, and I realized I needed to have a distinct password system for *each segment* of the game.
Sega Mouserfvrr
:)
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And I can back up this claim too, like, THE MAN explained why opened treasure boxes in Far East of Eden II kept refilled with items the next time you opened them (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/index.php?e=280#more), and for those here who never visited that blog, I ORDER you to OBEY and bookmark it!
Also, download all the free e-Books (http://www.highriskrevolution.com/gamelife/index.php?e=312) there. Don't let the covers fool you, they're not girlie doujinshis, but instead they're resources about game history and game design, many of which related to Hudson or the PCE.
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Here's what I know about the MB128, copied from the TG16/PCE save info page on my website (http://www.blackfalcongames.net/?p=190):
Games with Memory Base 128/Save-kun Support (complete list)
—
J CD
—
A-Train III (A. III, A-Rensha de Ikou III)
Aoki Ookami To Shiroki Mejika
The Atlas
Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Collection
Brandish
Eikan Wa Kimini
Fire Pro Female Wrestling
Linda Cube
Magicoal
Popful Mail
Princess Maker 2
Private Eye Doll
Sankokushi III
Shin Megami Tensei
Super Real Mahjong P II + III Custom
Super Real Mahjong PV Custom
Tadaima Yusha Boshuuchuu
Vasteel 2
Emerald Dragon also claims to have MB128 support, but it does not in fact work; you can copy blocks between the system and MB128 through the game (see below), but cannot actually save to the MB128, unfortunately. Quite unfortunate!
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MB128 games which allow you to backup your system save data (or other primary 2KB backup device) by copying the complete 2KB block to a block on the MB128. There are 63 available blocks, understandably (128KB for the MB128, 2KB for the internal memory). See the source link below for more info. Note that each title’s backup blocks on the MB 128 can only be accessed (and copied back to the system memory) by that game — they are not inter-compatible with the other titles on the list.
—
J SCD
—
Popful Mail
Private Eye Doll (third option from main menu)
Emerald Dragon (hold UP when you press RUN on the CD BIOS screen to access. In that menu, top to bottom, Load, Save, Swap, Delete Bank, Delete All MB128 Banks. This is the games’ only actual support for the MB128. This manager ONLY allows you to copy memory blocks to and from the MB128, you cannot see the files for games which save directly to the MB128 — for that see below. Oh — if you hold II at boot instead of Up, you’ll go straight to a load-game screen, skipping the intro and such.)
Vasteel 2
MB128 games with a manager that allows you to view what files are saved to the MB128, but not necessarily to copy blocks back and forth from the system
—
J SCD
—
Brandish (Hit Run, choose Load, then choose the lower-left option from the six-option grid on the screen that appears [note: this screen only appears when a MB128 is connected.]. It’s in Japanese text, directly below Save. This screen shows a list of the files saved to the MB128. They don’t have file sizes because each one is 1 ‘block’, or 2KB. Each memory backup (from, say, Emerald Dragon) or game save from a MB128-compatible game creates a file that takes up 1 space on the MB128. Here you can see what’s on the unit, and delete files if you want.)
MB128 games with MB128 managers that have unknown functions (need info)
—
J SCD
—
Tadaima Yusha Boshuchu – press 1+Run at boot for manager
Linda Cube – press Up+Run at boot for manager"
Thanks to this thread we now know that Linda Cube's manager is apparently similar to Emerald Dragon's. Is it actually so similar that it can read Emerald Dragon-created save backup files though, or are they still separate in the way that Private Eye Dol and Emerald Dragon cannot read each others' backup files? I'd presume the latter but don't have that game so I don't know myself.
I totally forgot..but a few weeks ago I made this Pastebin that contains all of the games that either use the MB128 natively or have programs to interface with it.
https://pastebin.com/wDJQEz3U
I am going to try Popful Mail and Linda and see where that gets me.
The bottom three paragraphs of 'your' Pastebin there are a copy of a post of mine from Neogaf a few years ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=162818950&postcount=2676 Don't claim things as yours that aren't...
As an addendum to one thing I say there though, on the battery life... so, I haven't replaced the batteries in my MB128 in quite a while. I just put in Brandish though, and all of the files I've put there, either for games with direct MB128 saves or for save backup archives, are still on the MB128, fully intact. Now, the batteries I had in it are Duracell Quantums, which have the powercheck testers on them. I just checked the batteries, and none of the four register anything on the testers, but despite that they still aren't fully dead and do have some charge in them; I put them in a GBC and they run it, though clearly far from full charge going by the battery light's brightness, for example. Interesting. The MB128 has a backup capacitor to keep the files for a little while when you are changing the batteries, but that can't hold the files for very long so these batteries must still be good.
So yeah, with Duracell Quantums at least, that "6-9 months" I said there and before on this forum as well I believe is conservative; it actually should be able to last a year, at least.
The one question I have left though is, does the MB128 draw power from the system? Like, when you remove the battery box the MB128 holds saves, but if you do this while the system is on is that just using the backup capacitor and thus in an hour or two or something your saves would be gone, or is it actually drawing power from the wall, while the system is on at least (I presume it couldn't when power is off?), to hold a charge that way? I don't know.
OK, so I think I have this figured out.
I can copy the contents to whatever bank I want using Private Eye Dol fairly easily. However, if I want to view the contents in any of the MB128's banks I first have to copy the contents of that bank to the PC Engine (make sure to backup the PCE first in another bank). Then I load up the Erase tool (bottom right/4th option) and select the PCE. I can then view the individual save files.
Is there a better way to view your saves on the MB 128 than that particular method? It's not a huge issue but I would be totally fine loading up another game if I simply wanted to check out everything I had saved on the MB128 easily. Loading up each bank individually like how I described would be a bit of a PITA in the future after I have more saves. I guess I could always just put the info on a Google Sheet haha.
The problem is that to the MB128, that file is not separate savegames; it is instead a single save file created by the host game, be it Private Eye Dol (which, yes, has maybe the nicest of the save backup applications), Emerald Dragon (this games' save backup app works fine for me, at least, though Private Eye Dol's is better), or the other two with similar apps that I don't have (as listed above). If you use Brandish (via the method I describe above) to look at the list of files in the MB128 itself, you'll notice that it's just a list of files. You can't view the contents of those files because only the game apps know that anything is in that file other than just a regular MB128 save file.
So, unfortunately, as far as I know the only way to view the contents of an MB128 save backup file is to view it in that games' MB128 save copy utility. It's annoying but that's how it is.
So basically, can anyone say if Tadaima Yusha Boshuchu, Popful Mail, or Vasteel 2's save copy applications are any different from the others?
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Oh snap, it's ABF.
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I said that I made a pastebin which includes a lot of information all located in one place so the people on this forum (and myself) can easily see relevant information about the MB128. It was so others more wise than myself with the Turbo Duo could help easily. My apologies for not citing the source but it's a pastebin, which by name alone, implies that it was copied from somewhere else. I never claimed to own it so please do not accuse me of plagiarism.
Considering that myself and others have confirmed to have major issues with Emerald Dragon you might want to add a warning for it and Linda Cubed on your website in regards to potentially losing all system saves. It might be an issue that is model specific (I have a Japanese Duo-R) or it might be something to do with mine being region/RGB modded. But I am not the only person who has had this issue apparently.
Linda Cubed had the exact same utility as Emerald Dragon and they both had the exact same issue on my system when trying to copy a save from the MB128 back to my Duo-R. I never made a save in Emerald Dragon after my initial ones were wiped during testing but I'd wager that each game would see each other just fine.
As far as the battery question goes, I can go make a save in a game here in just a bit, pull the batteries and let it sit overnight and see what happens. It would be nice to know since you could simply keep the device plugged in and not worry about forgetting to change the batteries and losing your saves. I'd wager it won't pull any power and all saves will be lost after a short amount of time...but we shall see!
I could not get Popful Mail or Vasteel 2's save applications to work in a way that made sense.
I plan on doing a write-up and a better video on how to use Private Eye Doll with the MB128 including how to view saves from other games (since it's not intuitive) in different save banks. I have almost completed my streaming setup and creating a video that way would be a lot better than me holding a phone. And I'll throw in some other info about potentially avoiding Emerald Dragon and probably some information on changing out the batteries as discussed above based on my findings.
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My two cents: This is a great thread.... the MB128 is actually getting sustained interest from several people and maybe we will methodically Test/verify all the speculation for a “definitive” guide to the file managers.
Amerika: thanks for committing to another video/write-up. Don’t stop the momentum.
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The whole thing is so weird. I mean, with Linda Cube or Emerald Dragon's manager, you can copy backups of the system save memory to your MB128. However, you cannot view the contents of the MB128 itself in this manager. You also can't save Emerald Dragon to the MB128, though I presume Linda Cube fixes this issue?
Additionally, most games with MB128 managers create incompatible files that cannot be viewed by the other games. That's just great.
On the other hand, with Brandish you can view the contents of the MB128 itself, and save the game to the MB128 directly, but can't make memory backups.
And then with other games like Sailor Moon Collection and such, you can save to the MB128 but can't view anything on it.
It's such a mess... seriously, the MB128 should just have come with a disc or something that's got a good memory manager on it, which lets you make backups of the memory, view the contents of the MB128, view the contents of backup files on the MB128 (which as you say, you can't do with the MB128 as it exists), etc.
I said that I made a pastebin which includes a lot of information all located in one place so the people on this forum (and myself) can easily see relevant information about the MB128. It was so others more wise than myself with the Turbo Duo could help easily. My apologies for not citing the source but it's a pastebin, which by name alone, implies that it was copied from somewhere else. I never claimed to own it so please do not accuse me of plagiarism.
When you directly quote someone, you should cite your source. That's my point. Lengthy direct quotes without attribution are at best sloppy and should be avoided.
Considering that myself and others have confirmed to have major issues with Emerald Dragon you might want to add a warning for it and Linda Cubed on your website in regards to potentially losing all system saves. It might be an issue that is model specific (I have a Japanese Duo-R) or it might be something to do with mine being region/RGB modded. But I am not the only person who has had this issue apparently.
Adding such a warning is a fine idea, but you hit on the issue here -- what is the problem, exactly? Is it some copies of the disc? This is possible, though it seems unlikely; I would think most disc copies are the same, unless the game has multiple revisions I've never heard of. Is it an incompatibility between the game and certain models of the system, as you suggest? That sounds possible; my system is a region-modded US TG16+CD addon, so it is different from yours. What's causing this weird issue you describe, so how should I phrase the warning... or do I just say 'the menu for this game may or may not work' and leave it at that?
Linda Cubed had the exact same utility as Emerald Dragon and they both had the exact same issue on my system when trying to copy a save from the MB128 back to my Duo-R. I never made a save in Emerald Dragon after my initial ones were wiped during testing but I'd wager that each game would see each other just fine.
That would be pretty interesting if true. I should try to find copies of those other games to see if that works or not. I just know that the two I do have create entirely incompatible files. The file names are different too, if you view them through Brandish.
As far as the battery question goes, I can go make a save in a game here in just a bit, pull the batteries and let it sit overnight and see what happens. It would be nice to know since you could simply keep the device plugged in and not worry about forgetting to change the batteries and losing your saves. I'd wager it won't pull any power and all saves will be lost after a short amount of time...but we shall see!
Yeah, I don't want to lose my save files so I can't test this myself... but it would definitely be nice to know.
I could not get Popful Mail or Vasteel 2's save applications to work in a way that made sense.
How so?
I plan on doing a write-up and a better video on how to use Private Eye Doll with the MB128 including how to view saves from other games (since it's not intuitive) in different save banks. I have almost completed my streaming setup and creating a video that way would be a lot better than me holding a phone. And I'll throw in some other info about potentially avoiding Emerald Dragon and probably some information on changing out the batteries as discussed above based on my findings.
That could be some good info to put together, sure.
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"Don't claim things as yours that aren't..."
That is accusing me of plagiarism which was your point originally. I never made that claim and I take offense to you insisting that I did. Yes, I copied your post to a pastebin in order to put a bunch of random info into one easy to view place that was supposed to be for my own personal use. I did not publish it anywhere official, I was using it strictly for troubleshooting and I never once claimed it was mine.
So, again, please do not call me a plagiarist. And yes, it is sloppy. It's a pastebin with random info in it dude. That is kind of the point. I copied a bunch of information from a lot of places that may or may not be valuable. I did add your name to the pastebin though. And I will be deleting the whole thing when my purposes are done. Most people would have just said, "oh hey that's my post from NeoGaf" and, at worst, asked me to add a citation if it really bothered them. Not accuse me of claiming it as my own work that I'm presenting to others when that is clearly not the case. That's just not cool man.
Anyway, I did do the test I mentioned with the MB128. I can confirm that it does not get any power from the PCE when it is powered off and the MB128 is plugged in. I took the batteries out and turned the machine off and after a few hours I checked and all of the saves on the MB128 are gone. The device does work when it does not have any batteries in so I guess it does draw power of some kind...but only with the machine on. So, in case you are worried about the built-in capacitors rapidly discharging as your change your batteries, you can turn your system on, keep the MB128 plugged in, pull out the old batteries and put new back in without issue. I performed this several times while having the Private Eye Doll memory manager up and it caused zero issues.
I did create an A Train save, which has built-in MB128 support, and Private Eye Doll was able to see/move it. I have not tried any other game with MB128 native support though.
I agree that the makers of the MB128 should have created a memory manager disc. I believe somebody was actually working on just such a thing a while back but nothing came of it. I recently ran into a similar issue with a 3DO I picked up and there was a program called Game Guru which is a memory manager that could compress save files down to almost nothing on the 3DO's memory file system. And it would work with the very expensive external save unit as well. Something like that would be quite nice for the PCE.
As far as the warning goes you could throw in something like, "this has caused some users to lose their system save files". You can link to my video if you want. I can leave it up and unlisted. It's odd that my Japanese Duo-R, which is very common in Japan, would have that issue with the MB128 where your US released setup does not haha. But you might make mention of my unit, my mods and that others have stated they have a similar issue. Something to tell people that they should use at their own risk. And maybe add in more info for Private Eye Doll to try it first. Again, you can link to my video if you want or create your own or wait for me to do a write-up. I did get my streaming pc/setup running tonight so I might be able to do that soon.
I don't believe I could get the utility to show up for Vasteel 2 (going off memory here and I might be wrong) and Popful Mail I simply couldn't make heads or tails of. It kept acting like it was doing things but wouldn't actually do anything. It was really odd. I might try it again though because it really looked like it should have worked.
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Meh, it's black falcon. He's a pro when it comes to 'sloppy writing that should be avoided'.
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sloppy things that should be avoided . . . sounds like my ex's, and the submarine sandwich I had last night.
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"Don't claim things as yours that aren't..."
That is accusing me of plagiarism which was your point originally. I never made that claim and I take offense to you insisting that I did. Yes, I copied your post to a pastebin in order to put a bunch of random info into one easy to view place that was supposed to be for my own personal use. I did not publish it anywhere official, I was using it strictly for troubleshooting and I never once claimed it was mine.
So, again, please do not call me a plagiarist. And yes, it is sloppy. It's a pastebin with random info in it dude. That is kind of the point. I copied a bunch of information from a lot of places that may or may not be valuable. I did add your name to the pastebin though. And I will be deleting the whole thing when my purposes are done. Most people would have just said, "oh hey that's my post from NeoGaf" and, at worst, asked me to add a citation if it really bothered them. Not accuse me of claiming it as my own work that I'm presenting to others when that is clearly not the case. That's just not cool man.
All you had to do was apologize and add in the citation, you know. Why are you trying to turn this into some big argument, I don't get it... Thanks for adding the citation though, that should solve the issue.
Anyway, I did do the test I mentioned with the MB128. I can confirm that it does not get any power from the PCE when it is powered off and the MB128 is plugged in. I took the batteries out and turned the machine off and after a few hours I checked and all of the saves on the MB128 are gone. The device does work when it does not have any batteries in so I guess it does draw power of some kind...but only with the machine on. So, in case you are worried about the built-in capacitors rapidly discharging as your change your batteries, you can turn your system on, keep the MB128 plugged in, pull out the old batteries and put new back in without issue. I performed this several times while having the Private Eye Doll memory manager up and it caused zero issues.
Alright, this is good to know. What I remember hearing, though, is that the MB128 has a capacitor in it that holds the saves when the batteries are removed. Thanks to your test here we know that it will not draw power while the system is off, but can last at least a few hours with the system on. But does it draw power from the system to keep the MB128's saves intact while the system is on, or is it just draining that capacitor and you lose your saves regardless once that runs out, presuming that that is what's going on (and I think there is a capacitor inside the MB128 from what I remember?)?
This isn't a really important question, as if you leave the system on it certainly will hold your saves long enough to swap out the batteries, but it is something I've been wondering regardless. You've answered one question though, and that's good.
I did create an A Train save, which has built-in MB128 support, and Private Eye Doll was able to see/move it. I have not tried any other game with MB128 native support though.
... Oh right, that one has a manager that lets you see the MB128's files too, unlike Emerald Dragon. I should have remembered or checked that...
I agree that the makers of the MB128 should have created a memory manager disc. I believe somebody was actually working on just such a thing a while back but nothing came of it. I recently ran into a similar issue with a 3DO I picked up and there was a program called Game Guru which is a memory manager that could compress save files down to almost nothing on the 3DO's memory file system. And it would work with the very expensive external save unit as well. Something like that would be quite nice for the PCE.
The whole save "solution" on the PCE is such a mess, with so many different save backup units, multiple types of ways to back up those backups, the absurdly small 2KB save memory space, etc. I know that the concept of being able to save games to a console itself was new at the time, but their solutions, while they work, have issues. But at least the PCE/Turbo CD has a built-in memory manager in the system card to view and delete the files saved to the system, though it does not display their file sizes.
That the memory managers for the MB128, or for the system itself if you want a manager that lets you view file sizes, are attached to games and not the system reminds be a bit of the N64, though -- recall how all N64 games that support the Controller Pak have a memory manager you can access by holding down Start when you turn the system on, but it's custom for each game, not a standard application. All games have the same exact functions, in that you can view and delete files but not move or copy them (those things you can only do with a PC backup device or a Gameshark), but the look of the screen, how many files you can see on screen at a time, whether it supports only viewing the card in controller 1 or all four, and such, varies from game to game, so some games have better managers than others. It's a bit annoying. (Bust-A-Move '99 is one of my favorites... you see a whole card at a time and it supports all four.)
As for the 3DO though, I have one of those 3DO backup addons (a Japan-only release, for some crazy reason). It's pretty nice, though you mostly have to use it as a backup unit, games generally can't save directly to it I think... but still, the 3DO internal memory is relatively small (what is it, 32KB?), so the 256KB backup unit is very nice to have. And it's great that the manager is a single disc which does everything, too, not separate managers in various different games.
However, just like the 3DO itself, the manager has a welded-down battery inside it that saves the files, so just like 3DO systems those things are going to start dying at some point and need replacement. The MB128's replaceable 4 AA battery solution may cost more in batteries, but it's really nice to have batteries that are easy to replace without soldering!
As far as the warning goes you could throw in something like, "this has caused some users to lose their system save files". You can link to my video if you want. I can leave it up and unlisted. It's odd that my Japanese Duo-R, which is very common in Japan, would have that issue with the MB128 where your US released setup does not haha. But you might make mention of my unit, my mods and that others have stated they have a similar issue. Something to tell people that they should use at their own risk. And maybe add in more info for Private Eye Doll to try it first. Again, you can link to my video if you want or create your own or wait for me to do a write-up. I did get my streaming pc/setup running tonight so I might be able to do that soon.
Yeah, I should add some info about Private Eye Dol's manager and a warning that some setups (though not mine) have problems with the Emerald Dragon/Linda Cube manager. I'll do that soon.
I don't believe I could get the utility to show up for Vasteel 2 (going off memory here and I might be wrong) and Popful Mail I simply couldn't make heads or tails of. It kept acting like it was doing things but wouldn't actually do anything. It was really odd. I might try it again though because it really looked like it should have worked.
Huh. I don't own those games so I haven't tried them myself... but it is tricky, messing around with managers with all Japanese-language text, you don't want to accidentally hit the 'delete everything' option or something if you've got files you want to keep on the thing! :p
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You stated that I claimed your work as my own, calling me a plagiarist, when I clearly did not claim your work as my own. And not having a citation is not the same as claiming it as your own. Those are two separate things. Never mind all the other contextual facts like me not publishing it, not claiming it and it being a pastebin that self-deletes in time while using it solely for support purposes etc. etc. You are in the wrong here, not me and I should be getting the apology. But I don't require one. I'm tired of the subject so I won't speak anymore about it since you don't appear to understand what you did and why I'm not going to apologize to you.
I did test that the MB128 will retain saves all night when plugged into a turned on PCE that does not have batteries in it. So it is drawing power from the PCE enough to keep the saves going and not relying on the capacitor since the saves will erase within an hour or two without batteries in the unit. So it is safe to change the batteries if a capacitor in the MB128 isn't holding a charge. Or, at least in theory, it is. That capacitor going bad might make the unit unusable depending on how it's built (I should open it up).
I've read into why it's so difficult to build a solution but damn would it be nice to have a bootable utility that could read all the different save files and simply move/copy/delete/compress with the MB128 and similar devices. Maybe I'll make that a project at some point in the future. I don't think that would actually be all that hard if my goal wasn't to try and put saves onto other solutions like an SD card or other storage solution and instead simply use something like the MB128 that exists/works. I doubt it's a big effort for something as simple as that assuming you can reverse engineer the currently working utilities. Yeah, I might try to figure that out in the future.