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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => Virtual Console TG/PCE Discussion => Topic started by: R-Typer on February 17, 2008, 04:40:31 AM
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Well, it's been over a year since the first TG-16 VC game made an appearance on the Wii and still we are forced to suffer blurry/filtered graphics.
Is there any word from anyone 'in the know' whether Hudson (or whoever) will finally relent and at least give us an option to view their releases with sharp, un-filtered graphics?
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I think Nintendo probably wants to maintain simplicity and therefore is unlikely to provide filtering options.
I personally like filtering because I do not think that 256x224 looks very good on a large high resolution display. Old SDTV CRTs did a good amount of blending/filtering on their own, especially over an RF or composite connection.
If you want options, use an emulator such as Magic Engine on a PC/MAC.
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Sadly any VC game NEOGEO, NES, SNES, Genesis/MD, or TG-16 are going to be filtered and blurry on a HDTV. It's like running emu's on a LCD Monitor. They would have to make the game Hi-Res since it's displaying in 480p on a HDTV. When I get an HDTV I'm keeping my old SDTV CRT, because I'm not having my DUO look like ass. HDTV's are just not good for old classic games.
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But I'm not running my Wii to an HDTV, just a standard TV via RGB.
Moot point anyhow as NES games on the VC are nice and sharp, so why can't we have the same sharpness with TG16 VC games?
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This is absolutely true- the television doesn't matter. it's blurred out on whatever screen you play it on.
Only the turbografx emulations suffer from this at that level.
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Sorry I didn't know that it was just TG-16. That's weird. I guess it's set in the emulation. However I don't notice it on my regular TV with composite. Looks the same as my DUO, which is hooked up to the same TV.
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If you're used to hooking up the original console to the TV via composite then it's a given that you won't notice the blurriness on TG16 VC games. However, if you're used to see the display via RGB, S-Video (or even PC/Mac/etc) emulation then the difference will be all too obvious and more frustrating as a result.
It's incredibly annoying, especially that we're not even given an option to view TG16 VC games without the blurry filtering.
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Yeah. I remember playing MagicEngine on my win95 computer and having it so much sharper since it was on a vga monitor. However it was easy to see the pixels since it didn't have the scanelines to filter them. I never really liked the bi-linear filtering. If I'm using MAME or something on my new widescreen lcd I turn off all the blurry filtering and use scanlines. It would be nice to have a couple filtering options added to the Wii VC emulation. That way you and others won't have to worry about this filtered nonsense.
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If you're used to hooking up the original console to the TV via composite then it's a given that you won't notice the blurriness on TG16 VC games.
Not quite true, as even composite is noticeably sharper than VC filtering; check out Black Tiger's fantastic comparison pics (http://superpcenginegrafx.com/wii_video_temp.html).
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If you're used to hooking up the original console to the TV via composite then it's a given that you won't notice the blurriness on TG16 VC games.
Not quite true, as even composite is noticeably sharper than VC filtering; check out Black Tiger's fantastic comparison pics (http://superpcenginegrafx.com/wii_video_temp.html).
Very good point, nice page that - just goes to show how very bad the TG16 VC filtered graphics are.
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If you're used to hooking up the original console to the TV via composite then it's a given that you won't notice the blurriness on TG16 VC games.
Not quite true, as even composite is noticeably sharper than VC filtering; check out Black Tiger's fantastic comparison pics (http://superpcenginegrafx.com/wii_video_temp.html).
I'm impressed that you actually found that page, Necromancer, since it's practically hidden/inaccessable from the actual website :shock:. He had shown me this when I asked him about making a Virtual Console page on his site. It's over a year old, he informed me, and is in need of an update of sorts (JUST LIKE THE OTHER PARTS HE NEEDS TO DO :twisted:), perferably with CD-ROM game comparisions. I'm also hoping that he will be able to work on the audio comparision part, too, since it is an interesting aspect to me.
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From the pics it looks like the wii is doing simple bilinear filtering. This often makes the image look too soft. More advanced filtering schemes like the Hires filter in Magic Engine or 2xsai typically give better results.
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That web page was a very nice comparison. I didn't know the colors were so much more saturated on the VC using composite. Were these taken on the same TV for the s-video/composite screens?
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That web page was a very nice comparison. I didn't know the colors were so much more saturated on the VC using composite. Were these taken on the same TV for the s-video/composite screens?
The screenshots are all captured. Turbo/PCE systems have pretty clear image output, but the vivid colors get lost. An RGB mod brings out the true colors, whether it is then carried through S-Video or composite-
http://superpcenginegrafx.com/video666.html
The Wii VC is just showing the colors closer to how they really are.
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That is such an awesome comparison B_T. Can't wait for my S-Video. =P~
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From the pics it looks like the wii is doing simple bilinear filtering. This often makes the image look too soft. More advanced filtering schemes like the Hires filter in Magic Engine or 2xsai typically give better results.
2xsai and the like are nasty. I can't see why people like those filters. They totally distort the image. What they need is a sharper bicubic filter and the options of 25/50/75% scanlines for 480p mode.
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It's a matter of preference. Sending an image over ntsc composite video distorts it just as much as 2xsai would, but in a different way (of note, there are filters that try to simulate this: http://www.slack.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html )
Bicubic is somewhat better than bilinear filtering, but hardware support is largely absent... it still provides a rather soft image.
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It's a matter of preference. Sending an image over ntsc composite video distorts it just as much as 2xsai would, but in a different way (of note, there are filters that try to simulate this: http://www.slack.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html )
Bicubic is somewhat better than bilinear filtering, but hardware support is largely absent... it still provides a rather soft image.
The alternative, being unfiltered graphics, would look terrible on the Wii's fixed resolution output in my opnion. You get non proportional pixels, some wider/taller then others and they tend to "dance" as the screen scrolls. Supposedly the SNES emulation looks fine on VC. I wonder what they're using.