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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: Arkhan on June 18, 2011, 05:37:53 PM
Title: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on June 18, 2011, 05:37:53 PM
Heres some footage, bitches.
I will add the other links as they upload, or just get them from the channel once youre on youtube.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: roflmao on June 18, 2011, 05:45:23 PM
Awesome.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: TheClash603 on June 18, 2011, 06:00:19 PM
Catchy tune! Looks good so far, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: SuperPlay on June 18, 2011, 08:09:22 PM
Nice work, dam I now have that tune stuck in my head ;-)
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: lord_cack on June 18, 2011, 10:58:13 PM
Very Nice Work. I thinks that going with the under water theme, and Sunteam_Paul art work, is great! The Chip tune is awesome and just overall Im impressed.
I must say everytime I see the games from Retrocade, Im glad I had the opportunity to be a part of it! That being said, you need anymore work done, let me know :D
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: shubibiman on June 19, 2011, 01:18:27 AM
Ooops! Double post, sorry.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: shubibiman on June 19, 2011, 01:18:51 AM
Nice work being done here! I love the paralaxe. I can see by the theme you chose that you're a big fan of the greatest PCE game ever : Deep Blue!
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 19, 2011, 04:31:52 AM
I love deep blue.
Once I get home today from fathers day stuff I will be putting up an Insanity X video, and another video. 4 CCAG videos.
yay
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 19, 2011, 07:41:25 AM
You know, I had a though. What if that first layer of tile-based parallax were a line-scroll, ala SF2 floors, connecting the main BG to the faster-scrolling bottom trim? Since you're doing this underwater, I keep wanting some kind of line scroll effect to either simulate water or depth. It certainly doesn't need it, but I'm greedy.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 19, 2011, 08:41:37 AM
do you mean scroll two parts at same speed? I am not sure what you mean exactly, lol.
anyway, more videos in about 10 mins
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 19, 2011, 09:20:39 AM
You know how the floor warps in some fighting games, most notably SF2? Well, what if there was a faster scrolling border at the bottom of the screen with the sea monkeys, and the larger background scrolls at a slower speed, and then there's a space between them where you use line scrolling to make it look like there's a "floor" of sorts that connects the faster bottom background to the slower main background area. It might be that, when implemented, such a thing would look stupid, but in my head I imagine it looking cool.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: sunteam_paul on June 19, 2011, 10:11:40 AM
Questions questions questions....!!
How practical would it be to produce those HuCards for an actual release? How much would it add to the cost of the game? In theory, how much memory can you fit onto one that a real PCE could actually use? Could you have cards rivalling the storage of a CD-Rom, but with the instant access they provide? I assume there would be limitions still in place due to VRAM or something?
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: SignOfZeta on June 19, 2011, 10:12:56 AM
SFII style line scrolling floors only work like that because the screen only scrolls a little bit left and right. It doesn't loop and it only scrolls so far.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 19, 2011, 10:30:47 AM
How practical would it be to produce those HuCards for an actual release? How much would it add to the cost of the game? In theory, how much memory can you fit onto one that a real PCE could actually use? Could you have cards rivalling the storage of a CD-Rom, but with the instant access they provide? I assume there would be limitions still in place due to VRAM or something?
the sky is the limit with space on a card, but also, there are physical limitations. AFAIK you can just slap a dickload of ROM not RAM (lol oops) on there, but that would involve more planning/design/costs/etc.
The more you put on there, the more you have to worry about physically, obviously.... but doing these kind of games will be no real problem or concern.
I want to move forward with HuCards as a release. I have ideas for how to produce/sell them and have them be presentable (instead of janky boards!).
I thought Atlantean would be great for a HuCard game.
If it goes well, the bar can be raised.... We could do larger cards, bigger games....
but I prefer starting small and making sure its even do-able, and popular.
If it is done, the first wave would be small quantities, to see how much interest there really is.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: sunteam_paul on June 19, 2011, 10:35:36 AM
It would be really interesting to calculate what is cost effective. If we are looking at massive capacity compared to existing HuCards, I imagine you could do stuff on them that could possibly make them a good choice over CD Format (more animation, tons more BG tiles etc) without the system card limitiations. Quite an exciting thought.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 19, 2011, 10:39:41 AM
SFII style line scrolling floors only work like that because the screen only scrolls a little bit left and right. It doesn't loop and it only scrolls so far.
I disagree. I've seen a number of games that use such effects to mimic a cloud plane or water surface. Line scrolling shouldn't be too CPU intensive, either. Again, what I'm specifically describing might look dumb, but I'd need to see it, and I don't think your "it only works because..." reasons are necessarily accurate.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: sunteam_paul on June 19, 2011, 10:43:02 AM
The bottom areas of parallax are front-on buildings and structures. I'm not visualising what you're proposing here.
However, a watery effect on the blue coral background might look cool.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: BlueBMW on June 19, 2011, 10:56:00 AM
Sign me up for any homebrew HuCard games that are made :D
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 19, 2011, 11:42:40 AM
SFII style line scrolling floors only work like that because the screen only scrolls a little bit left and right. It doesn't loop and it only scrolls so far.
I disagree. I've seen a number of games that use such effects to mimic a cloud plane or water surface. Line scrolling shouldn't be too CPU intensive, either. Again, what I'm specifically describing might look dumb, but I'd need to see it, and I don't think your "it only works because..." reasons are necessarily accurate.
Now that I think about it, Galaxy Fight (Neo Geo) uses infinite line scrolling. It does it with simplistic repeatable patterns though, not actual objects. So it could be done, but not with the sort of foreground that is in this game. I think Macross 2036 does it too, but I can't remember. It would be nice to see it used somewhere in this collection, if not in this specific game. I love line scrolling. In fact, just as my friend and I were waiting to get into this very show we were talking about what a bummer it was that line scrolling floors disappeared from fighters right around the time of Street Fighter Zero, and how that was kind sad.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on June 19, 2011, 12:30:33 PM
The bottom areas of parallax are front-on buildings and structures. I'm not visualising what you're proposing here.
However, a watery effect on the blue coral background might look cool.
OK, here is a VERY crappy rendition of what I'm trying (apparently badly) to describe.
What you want, is the same effect used on the floor of levels in Defender 2000 for the Jaguar:
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arm on June 19, 2011, 12:39:40 PM
For SF 2, I think he's referring to the separate horizontal layers forming the ground (in the foreground) which scroll as you move right or left in order to simulate the perspective of the scene when the camera follows the character. I suppose you could recreate this as an animation loop (horizontal layers forming the ground scrolling) to simulate the ground perspective as the cam follows the ship to the right or left. Or to mimic some kind of ripple effect for the water or clouds
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 19, 2011, 01:34:58 PM
the games already doing that... lol
do you mean scroll something that ISNT the buildings?
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arm on June 19, 2011, 01:52:04 PM
What I mean by that is that the grounds in SF2 have a skewed perspective and are comprised of horizontal layers which move to simulate the skewed perspective movement. (the star's perspective moving on the ground in guile's stage)
Most shoot em up use classic layer/overlay scrolling to simulate a multiplane effect. The principle is the same, but visually it looks different.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 19, 2011, 02:24:21 PM
do you mean scroll something that ISNT the buildings?
Yes! Have something DIFFERENT between the top part of the background and the faster scrolling buildings on the bottom. The Defender 2000 link actually demonstrates what I was thinking pretty well.
Hey, what screen resolution are you using for this game?
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: touko on June 19, 2011, 09:59:33 PM
What I mean by that is that the grounds in SF2 have a skewed perspective and are comprised of horizontal layers which move to simulate the skewed perspective movement. (the star's perspective moving on the ground in guile's stage)
Most shoot em up use classic layer/overlay scrolling to simulate a multiplane effect. The principle is the same, but visually it looks different.
It's impossible to do with huc scroll function .. You must use an hsync interrupt to make that ..
And i think that this defender demo was make speedly to show something at CCAG .. Some sprites problems can be resolved simply by arranging graphics datas on screen IMO.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: TheOldMan on June 20, 2011, 12:17:36 AM
Quote
the sky is the limit with space on a card, but also, there are physical limitations. AFAIK you can just slap a dickload of ram on there
Please get the terms right. There is NO RAM on the board. It is all ROM.
There are only 20 address lines on the connecctor, so 1Mbyte is the ROM size limit. Unless you want to design a map register chip, and all the logic to map it into an i/o area?
Theoretically, you -could- have infinite ROM. Practically, you can have 1M.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 03:03:30 AM
Right now its rocking default res, but I *might* crank it up. I haven't decided. Right now its pretty nice looking.
Did you have an idea of what to put there for this skewed perspective stuff? Cause I sure don't. I blow at art/concepts involving it for the most part
It's impossible to do with huc scroll function .. You must use an hsync interrupt to make that ..
Thats why I wont be using much of the HuC stuff probably. Though you can just go in and modify HuCs functions. Its not like we havent done that crap before, lol.
Quote
And i think that this defender demo was make speedly to show something at CCAG .. Some sprites problems can be resolved simply by arranging graphics datas on screen IMO.
No they can't. Its not as simple as you think.
You realize this is an empty demo. This is just the background/scenery... even if you arrange it optimally for what is on screen now, once you introduce a full amount of enemies that shoot at you, you will have issues again. There can be a pretty fair amount of things on screen in defender style games.
Its going to involve a bit more planning/rethinking of some things, and probably some trickery and magic.
Please get the terms right. There is NO RAM on the board. It is all ROM.
whoops, thats what I get for playing MMOs and forums at the same time, lol.
I meant ROM :D . Ive pulled enough of those out of carts and stuff to know what they are called, haha. Man, tons of RAM would make no sense as far as putting a big game on there. lol
"THERES THE GAME!" *turns off the console* *turns it back on* CRAP WHERED THE GAME GO! o_O
and yeah in theory you can definitely have as much as you want (even says so in the docs!). but you have to make sure you have the card designed to handle a massive amount of ROM. You can't just shove a huge rom chip in place of a tiny one and have it automagically fall into place.
Maybe one day, but for now, keeping it simple, effective, and working is the goal.
If we can't even reproduce the most basic of hucards realistically, there is zero point in planning for balls to the wall SF2 or larger sized cards. We'd be shooting ourselves in the feet/faces for attempting it!
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 20, 2011, 03:20:48 AM
Right now its rocking default res, but I *might* crank it up. I haven't decided. Right now its pretty nice looking.
Did you have an idea of what to put there for this skewed perspective stuff? Cause I sure don't. I blow at art/concepts involving it for the most part
If you're already having trouble with too many sprites on a single line, cranking up the res is NOT going to make that easier to deal with.
As for the line-scrolling section... Well, a Google Images search for ocean floor, like the following, might lend some ideas. It would be worth, I think, seeing how it looks.
How are you, so far, for CPU overhead? I know you were hitting some line-based sprite limits, but I figure you've still got juice to spare in other areas.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 03:47:16 AM
Well there is some sloppyherpderp math going on right now that causes slow down, but thats because it was a sloppy job as far as putting enemies out and making them do stuff.
Realistically there is a good chunk of juice left (and its already playing music/sfx. ;))
if theres an ocean floor above the buildings wouldnt that make the buildings underground...
or do you mean try to create the perspective where as the floor comes towards screen it lines up so it looks like its the ground under the buildings (the perspective fades into the buildings)
???
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 20, 2011, 03:57:57 AM
Well there is some sloppyherpderp math going on right now that causes slow down, but thats because it was a sloppy job as far as putting enemies out and making them do stuff.
Realistically there is a good chunk of juice left (and its already playing music/sfx. ;))
if theres an ocean floor above the buildings wouldnt that make the buildings underground...
or do you mean try to create the perspective where as the floor comes towards screen it lines up so it looks like its the ground under the buildings (the perspective fades into the buildings)
???
You got it. The latter bit. As for the sprite problems, I wasn't referring to slowdown but the sprite clipping you get when 2 enemies mob the character on one of the lower areas.
Also, in the original Defender you could fire pretty quickly. Your demo has one shot at a time. If you are keeping to one shot at a time make sure to tone down enemy speed and aggressiveness to account for that, otherwise you'll be slaughtering your players left and right : )
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 04:03:43 AM
Don't worry, you'll be able to pound the shots out rapid fire! I wish there was a good way to do particle effects without really torching things.
The slowdown is one thing, the clipping is another. Alot of the clipping will be sorted out once I rethink a few things.
I dunno, the floor thing could be neat. I cant even begin to imagine how to paint it though. I suck at art.
We have to see what paul thinks about that since hes the pixelfiddler.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Necromancer on June 20, 2011, 05:32:09 AM
You're gonna crank out 'real' HuCards?!? :shock:
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: SignOfZeta on June 20, 2011, 05:42:59 AM
Well, they won't be "real" HuCard™ games but they will run from a cartridge and not a CD. With mass production of PCBs being a lot easier than it used to be, all it takes is a simple EPROM.
I'm rather excited about that part alone. I'd love to see Retrocade come out as a HuCard. With a half dozen or so games as good as Insanity, Pyramid Plunder, and Atlantean, and with a linkable on Express version of Asteroids, I think it would be a hit. It would sell for more money than a CD-R would, and even those guys with HuCard only systems could play it.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 05:49:24 AM
I have ideas for making it as HuCard as possible.
as in possibly no giant chip nonsense pokin up.
We will see once I get some boards in and start soldering crap.
basically, I know some people. We might have something interesting to use as a card making process. If it works as neatly as I think, oh man.
I am trying to keep Atlantean as HuCard as possible, no CD stuff, so it can be on a card too. Pyramid Plunder is too heavily entrenched as a CD game now to turn back...because we weren't planning on that as a HuCard...
but some of the other games (joust, skate or die, etc.) should be ok.
We will see! its all pending how well the card ideas turn out.
but, Aetherbyte likes to do things that need done. like chiptunes and hucards. reconizeeee
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: shubibiman on June 20, 2011, 06:01:29 AM
That would be so great and leave the possibility to Hucard only machines to play the game. I really hope you can make it!
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 07:40:40 AM
The real question here is, would people want to pay ~50$ for a basic HuCard with Atlantean on it?
We have the unfortunate privilage of not being able to repro carts as easily as Genesis and NES stuff.
Those boards can be sorta large, and then get shoved into the cart.
We on the other hand... have to see how slim we can get it to be like a real HuCard.
Like I said though, I have some ideas. If it works, a standard wimpy size game will be doable, and I believe I know a good way to make cases as well.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: sunteam_paul on June 20, 2011, 08:38:07 AM
The real question here is, would people want to pay ~50$ for a basic HuCard with Atlantean on it?
The devoted will at first, but long term I don't think you'd get as many takers for simplistic arcade games (when people can buy actual better HuCards for less).
However, given other styles of games, I do see a future in it. Puzzle games would be particularly suited I think. They don't need the bells and whistles of an arcadey title, or the complexity to make them fun to play. CC's Tongueman's Logic is a great example of a superb but simple puzzler. I'm sure something original could be designed that would suit the format well.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Keranu on June 20, 2011, 08:47:56 AM
How about Obomba Man '11 on HuCard?
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: sunteam_paul on June 20, 2011, 09:31:38 AM
I actually have in mind a puzzle game that would be perfect for HuCard, but it might require getting permission to convert it from some ZX Spectrum homebrewers where it originated.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: shubibiman on June 20, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
We want Puzzle Bobble!
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Necromancer on June 20, 2011, 09:57:40 AM
The real question here is, would people want to pay ~50$ for a basic HuCard with Atlantean on it?
I'd guess not very many, considering how slowly Insanity/Implode/Meteor Blaster DX sold for almost half the price. New HuCards would be the Hudson bee's knees, but it's hard to justify a $50 price tag (plus a substantial expense to have cases made or selling your soul and skinning a bunch of TV Sports Football donor games) when discs can be had for a mere buck each. Plus flash carts can be had for $60, so no doubt a few peeps would ignore the negligible cost of the slave labor building the flash cart and label your huey as overpriced.
That said, I'd buy one. :D
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 11:29:47 AM
Well my trickery for jewel cases would keep costs down, but the 50$ cost of the entire package, includes estimates for the case/etc.
Whole packaged deal would be 50 money
and it would probably cost 40$ + time/effort to build per card, so when someone goes OMG PROFITEERING ASSHEOOL, we can all tell them to shut up.
I would be doing surface mount/low profile. And, if my plan for making it cardy, not boardy works, it would be pretty near legit style. We don't get to have carts like Sega/NES stuff. Total bummer really.
So really, were boned either way!
CD: Not many people have it. America is all n00b about OBEY. HuCard: People will go OMG TOO PRICEY. G T F O.
:(
maybe itll be a short-run mostly for the loyalOBEYers.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 20, 2011, 11:44:58 AM
Does designing the game for HuCard rule out a CD release and vice-versa? Honestly, I would say the decision should be based on how much something bare-board looking would save over doing something with polish.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 12:12:26 PM
well it would need to be rewritten to handle the CD, lol
Theres lots of calls (cd loading/etc)
that you have to account for. It could be setup PRIOR to starting it, but shoving it in post-completion, is a PITA.
What I mean by prior to starting it is, set up everything to do both, with a flag set for building. If CD, call CD shit, otherwise, dont.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: touko on June 20, 2011, 01:40:57 PM
You realize this is an empty demo. This is just the background/scenery... even if you arrange it optimally for what is on screen now, once you introduce a full amount of enemies that shoot at you, you will have issues again. There can be a pretty fair amount of things on screen in defender style games.
Its going to involve a bit more planning/rethinking of some things, and probably some trickery and magic.
Eh, send me a screen snapshot, and i 'll tell you how i did :wink: ... not some trickery and magic della mouerte, only simple programming :mrgreen: (joke inside).
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: nat on June 20, 2011, 02:28:00 PM
If these actual "HuCards" got produced, I personally wouldn't give a damn if they were as flat as regular HuCards or if they had a big giant chip sticking out of them. Just the fact that someone bothered to make some HuCards in 2011 would be good enough for me.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2011, 04:19:01 PM
Eh, send me a screen snapshot, and i 'll tell you how i did :wink: ... not some trickery and magic della mouerte, only simple programming :mrgreen: (joke inside).
Well the thing is, because the game scrolls both directions, sprites are tracked even off screen, as this makes it easier to do the parallax, but even so, this demo shows some problems I will have to deal with.
Condensing the building tops will help...but then comes the fact you could have:
hero + 5 hero shots + 5ish enemies/humanoids and their shots.... that alone is pushing/breaking the line limit... not counting the building tops + coral....
and then comes the radar, and making sure that is accurate ... :) thank god for Pyramid Plunder.
If these actual "HuCards" got produced, I personally wouldn't give a damn if they were as flat as regular HuCards or if they had a big giant chip sticking out of them. Just the fact that someone bothered to make some HuCards in 2011 would be good enough for me.
Well, I agree with this, except for the part where they dont fit in jewel cases that way.
If you want big ROMs stickin up, f*ck, thats no probrem at all! Get boards duped, solder ROM on, done. :)
but I will try to get a good surface setup, and find out how resilient my card plan is.
It could be awesome.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on June 20, 2011, 06:50:31 PM
As far as the casing goes, I'd be cool with it being not unlike the cardboard NGPC cases, as long as the size of the case would be the same size as a cd/hucard case. Also kind of like what alot of companies do with music cd's, I forget what they're called, but, I actually like the cardboard ones better the regular cd cases myself.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: touko on June 20, 2011, 08:14:29 PM
Well the thing is, because the game scrolls both directions, sprites are tracked even off screen, as this makes it easier to do the parallax, but even so, this demo shows some problems I will have to deal with.
Condensing the building tops will help...but then comes the fact you could have:
hero + 5 hero shots + 5ish enemies/humanoids and their shots.... that alone is pushing/breaking the line limit... not counting the building tops + coral....
and then comes the radar, and making sure that is accurate ... :) thank god for Pyramid Plunder.
Its going to require some hoojoo voodoo
Na, you can use 3 scroll functions (or screen ruptures with hsync), 1 for main background, second and third for your parallaxes .. You are completing with sprites for depth .. It's more easy (and less cpu too) than sprites only, for multidirectional scrollings .
Or you can using sprites parallax for third,and second are tiles and some sprites (4) for depth .
Yes you probably can't remove all sprites problems in your entire game, but if you don't reduce the risk at start, it will be much harder later..
As far as the casing goes, I'd be cool with it being not unlike the cardboard NGPC cases, as long as the size of the case would be the same size as a cd/hucard case. Also kind of like what alot of companies do with music cd's, I forget what they're called, but, I actually like the cardboard ones better the regular cd cases myself.
Cardboard? God no. There has to be some easy way to adapt a standard jewel case.
There is nothing so depressing as a system that had killer plastic cases for the games for years only to have to switched to cardboard in the later years. This one being...really late in years.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 21, 2011, 02:41:10 AM
Na, you can use 3 scroll functions (or screen ruptures with hsync), 1 for main background, second and third for your parallaxes ..
I am already. Its simple line scrolling with sprites making more depth. The most basic of parallax. It's all visual trickery.
Quote
You are completing with sprites for depth .. It's more easy (and less cpu too) than sprites only, for multidirectional scrollings .
??
Quote
Or you can using sprites parallax for third,and second are tiles and some sprites (4) for depth .
Again, that is what I am doing. The coral and the rooftops are sprites. It is the dead moon effect. There is no other real great way to do the effect.
Quote
Yes you probably can't remove all sprites problems in your entire game, but if you don't reduce the risk at start, it will be much harder later..
I know... thats why I said I am working on it, lol. This is basically Atlantean .0001. I have ideas for how to fix all of the issues without sacrificing the visuals. The problems only arise on the second row from the bottom of the screen because of the fact you can fly down there, and so can enemies, so it can become very crowded. The problem wouldn't be as intense if sprites didn't need tracked in both directions.
The catch to games like Dead Moon is that it scrolls one way, at a fixed speed. You know exactly when and where sprites need to pop out. No guessing, no going the other way, no sliding sprites back on screen that just went away a pixel ago. But , I have ideas and plans. :)
As for the jewel cases, I am fairly certain I know exactly what to do for that. Ill skimp on the details until we get there, and if it works out, I will definitely spill the beans.
This HuCard thing will be a result of my original C= scene background (hey! lets modify everything ever! Get the solder!) and my gaming background. I hope it works out. We need HuCards.
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: touko on June 21, 2011, 03:42:33 AM
You are completing with sprites for depth .. It's more easy (and less cpu too) than sprites only, for multidirectional scrollings .
??
How to insert local pictures ??? :-k
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 21, 2011, 04:26:19 AM
I just don't understand what you said there lol
Do you mean using background scrolling is easier/faster than using sprites for all of it?
If so, everything you see except the coral and domes are already background scrolling :)
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: spenoza on June 21, 2011, 04:41:51 AM
Is there a way to track the sprites without actually having them be sprites unless they are on-screen? As in, they cease to be sprites off-screen, but rather become simply tracked variables, and when it's time to be back on-screen they are recreated as new sprites?
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: KingDrool on June 21, 2011, 05:36:35 AM
Mark me down as +1 for a HuCard purchase at $50 or even higher. Having a new TurboChip in 2011 would be bad-freaking-ass!
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: touko on June 21, 2011, 05:44:55 AM
Do you mean using background scrolling is easier/faster than using sprites for all of it?
If so, everything you see except the coral and domes are already background scrolling :)
nothing except corals in background are composed of sprites ???
Ok i see, if you want easily resolving you sprites problems, your domes (for background between) must be a background part, and your main background (dark corals) should not fall as low ..
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Black Tiger on June 21, 2011, 06:04:16 AM
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hero + 5 hero shots + 5ish enemies/humanoids and their shots.... that alone is pushing/breaking the line limit... not counting the building tops + coral....
Don't 16-bit console shooters usually flicker the bullets, so that only half or less are visible per frame?
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 21, 2011, 06:05:05 AM
Is there a way to track the sprites without actually having them be sprites unless they are on-screen? As in, they cease to be sprites off-screen, but rather become simply tracked variables, and when it's time to be back on-screen they are recreated as new sprites?
Yeah, that is the route I plan to go first and see how it works. It was in-the-works before the show, but tracking all those dome tops and checking for if its time to be drawn without them popping up funky or looking wonky, is a bit tricky. There isnt any room for error or "close enough" since its a visual effect. I believe that it is definitely doable though.
I haven't experimented yet, but its seeming like if you have sprites set and are actively updating them in the sprite table, they contribute to the line limit even if they are off of the viewable screen (but still in the "screen"). Which kinda blows, but also makes sense.
nothing except corals in background are composed of sprites ???
The rainbow coral towers and the rooftops of the buildings are sprites.
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Ok i see, if you want easily resolving you sprites problems, your domes (for background between) must be a background part, and your main background (dark corals) should not fall as low ..
Yeah, but then the deadmoon effect is killed.
Easy resolution isn't going to be the answer. Easy resolution will result in the visual effect looking less nice.
It will involve some planning. Careful planning.
Like I said, I have ideas. :) A few of them that should help!
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: touko on June 21, 2011, 06:40:11 AM
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Yeah, but then the deadmoon effect is killed.
Why ??, only a very little part is removed, 1 line of 2 tiles high max, perhaps one is sufficient..
Title: Re: CCAG 2011 Footage
Post by: Arkhan on June 21, 2011, 07:25:32 AM
if you remove the sprite rooftops from the back row you lose an entire layer of depth between the buildings and the tall rainbow coral.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Bonknuts on June 21, 2011, 01:18:27 PM
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I haven't experimented yet, but its seeming like if you have sprites set and are actively updating them in the sprite table, they contribute to the line limit even if they are off of the viewable screen (but still in the "screen"). Which kinda blows, but also makes sense.
Yup. The whole X position in the SAT registers are parsed every line. It's the Y value to determine if the sprite cell pixel data will be fetched for that line or not, not X. So off screen sprites in that Y range clog up your sprite scanline buffer limit. Surprisingly, it's not the only home console like that.
BTW, great looking underwater shmup demo.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: touko on June 21, 2011, 09:24:13 PM
Oops, lol. I think this will fix it all up and doesn't sacrifice visuals, AND gives more sprite use,so, yay.
Aaaah sprites multiplexing !!!
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on June 22, 2011, 05:02:41 PM
Feel free to make awesome movies when you have improvements worth showing off. I think those of us who are Defender fans (even if we suck at the game) will be waiting with bated breath.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on June 23, 2011, 10:29:20 AM
Yeah, im restructuring pieces of the code, and cleaning a few things up. I dont want to start spewing enemies out before the basic stuff is top notch'd
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on June 23, 2011, 11:26:21 AM
Interviews.
Witness me sucking at talking...
f*ck YEAH.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: roflmao on June 23, 2011, 01:27:10 PM
Good stuff. Congrats, Arkhan!
For fun times, turn the "Transcribe Audio" CC on for the first link (wasn't available for the second one). I lol'ed.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: nodtveidt on June 23, 2011, 01:54:56 PM
Hey Ark, you weren't that bad on camera, it was pretty damn cool actually.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: nat on June 23, 2011, 03:20:36 PM
Yeah, the other guy in the first video looks a lot more uncomfortable than you do.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: nodtveidt on June 23, 2011, 03:42:37 PM
No doubt.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on June 30, 2011, 02:58:11 AM
Arkhan, this plan you have to make your own cards. Will you be including some kind of switching (physical or electronic) so that the chips can be used in both US and JPN systems?
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: TheOldMan on July 02, 2011, 02:16:49 AM
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Will you be including some kind of switching (physical or electronic) so that the chips can be used in both US and JPN systems?
Not at first. Though we do have tools to bit-flip the images, so you could order either a us or a jp vesion of the games :)
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 02, 2011, 06:50:16 PM
yeah since the actual rom burning is going to occur in house, you can just specify what machine you are wanting.
If this shit takes off to where its popular, adding a switch isn't really rocket science. It will complicate the board some, and add a gaudy looking switch... but its not like its not doable
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on July 03, 2011, 09:34:20 AM
It doesn't even have to be a manual switch. If there is a small, cost effective digital switching chip that can store its last state, that might be an appropriate way to go.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: TheOldMan on July 03, 2011, 12:12:28 PM
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If there is a small, cost effective digital switching chip that can store its last state...
Well, someone else here is working on a region mod with such a chip, except for storing the state (which would presumably involve a battery for backup power).
Personally, I'd go with a jumper for selection (On = JP, Off = US), but the card is gonna be expensive enough as it is. No need to add another $5 to the price tag. :(
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 03, 2011, 03:35:04 PM
yeah 5$ for a jumper you can fiddle around seems sort of moot since I see it this way:
most serious PCE people have a PCE and will get a PCE version of the card. people with TG16s will get the TG16 version and realize they want Japanese games and mod their system in a panic.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Necromancer on July 05, 2011, 05:03:17 AM
I can't imagine anyone hardcore enough to shell out $50 for a homebrew cart that doesn't already have at least one console from each region and/or a region mod.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 05, 2011, 05:41:01 AM
Yeah .. and anyone who is throwing 50$ up for a card can clearly afford a region mod if needed.
but, burning the ROM for whichever region you want isn't a problem lol
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Necromancer on July 05, 2011, 06:16:48 AM
Are you doing with straight EPROMs or some kind of flash memory solution? How much time will you have to invest for each cart, do you think?
Will you be selling a ROM to folks who have flash carts?
These are going to be as close to the real deal as possible. AKA: you buy it and go OMG YES. and shove it in system of choice and play it. We burn them in house, install the ROM, apply labels, shove in jewel case, and mail it. Selling chips by themselves is all C= Community style. f*ck that.
Depending on how michael J fox myself and friends are while trying to solder the stuff on, I don't see it taking more than an hour per board. It should take less. It should also get faster as we get into the groove of soldering the stuff.
SMT ROMs are going to be a pain in the dick, but worth it.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on July 09, 2011, 06:35:57 AM
Hey, got any new footage for us?
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 09, 2011, 04:36:24 PM
no lol. I told you I was taking a post CCAG break for a bit. :D
I was hopin they were doin a CCAG 2011.5, but I guess not.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on July 09, 2011, 05:07:56 PM
no lol. I told you I was taking a post CCAG break for a bit. :D
I was hopin they were doin a CCAG 2011.5, but I guess not.
Do you think there would have been enough interest for another CCAG this year?
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 09, 2011, 05:18:49 PM
The CCAG this year was actually less crowded than usual. i was kind of surprised.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on July 10, 2011, 12:02:30 PM
Well, people are financially getting worn down a bit, and console gaming can be quite an expense at times. So traffic was down and that caused you to think we needed another? I would say we would need another only if traffic was way up.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 10, 2011, 12:21:17 PM
Well, they did a half year one a few times before (like the one where insanity was released).
The octobery-times see a lot of sales, because its 2 months from christmas.
and because the building is nice and warm, lol
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on July 10, 2011, 05:19:56 PM
Well, they did a half year one a few times before (like the one where insanity was released).
The octobery-times see a lot of sales, because its 2 months from christmas.
and because the building is nice and warm, lol
I hadn't considered that. That might make a difference, but it seems it's not in the cards this year.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 11, 2011, 05:11:14 PM
It wasn't last year either because the con-runner was buying a house.
:(
I wish he'd do it. The fall one always brings more epic. Its also less of a neckbeard mouthbreather sweatfest.
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: spenoza on July 12, 2011, 06:28:21 AM
Why does it take him to organize the con? Couldn't someone else step up and then he could participate without having to organize?
Title: Re: 2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)
Post by: Arkhan on July 12, 2011, 12:10:13 PM
its kind of a lot of work to rent out a place, organize tables/crap, and everything else involved to get it going , lol. I know I wouldnt want to do all that shit