Anyone care to comment in-depth on the PC-FX hardware design?

[Arkhan]

The plus side here also is, the PC-FX is 32 bit.  so,  C programming translates nicely.

C programming does not translate nicely to 8 bit.  Especially when its macro-oni and cheese all over the f*cker

[filler]

Most homebrewers do it in their spare time, but we don't have the looming deadlines and marketing departments to answer to.

On the romhacking side of things I've seen some stuff that is pretty great too. Some localizations are more complete, better translated, and handled better technically than commercial localizations of the time. Doing it in one's spare time means lots of projects don't get finished, and sometimes take years, but the lack of pressure and devotion can produce amazing results.

You've gotten me pretty psyched to see some awesome homebrew for the PC-FX now Old Rover! Keep us posted! Do you guys have a web site or anything? I'd offer to try to come up with a game but I'm thinking about trying something out for PC/mobile. I have yet to make a game so it's all still theoretical at this point. I'm a big PC-FX fan though. If I ever make something good someday maybe you'd consider making a PC-FX port? Or it could be like the 8-Bit version of Steins;Gate, a retro sequel kind of thing.

[SuperDeadite]

I've asked before, and I'll ask again. Someone port Doom to the FX.  Sure Doom is on everything known to man, but the FX needs it.  Also the PS1 and Saturn Doom ports are terrible, a good 32-bit console port needs to be made!  DO IT!

[trap15]

For what it's worth, since I'm aware of the hardware behind Saturn, PC-FX, and to a lesser extent PSX, I'll help clear some stuff up.

First off, Saturn's dual SH-2s blow the PC-FX's V810 away. Even one of the SH-2s out-performs the PC-FX's CPU. PSX's MIPS is also faster than the PC-FX's V810. The V810 is just not that fast of a CPU, unfortunately (though in my professional opinion, it's probably more fun to program V810 assembly than SH-2 and MIPS).

The PC-FX has 4 backgrounds on one of the video chips (KING), of which a single background can rotate/scale. These backgrounds are fairly powerful though; they can do all sorts of neat video modes per-background, which is interesting to play with. It has 2 more backgrounds, each one generated by a 7up (the same video chip that was in the PCE), which don't really have anything special. Those chips together also can generate a total of 128 sprites, 32 per scanline. And then we have 1 more background, which comes from the MJPEG decoder, which is actually where the PC-FX beat out all the other consoles of the generation. The PC-FX's MJPEG decoder can play JPEG video streams along with Redbook audio at a very pleasant 30 fps.
On the other hand, you've got Saturn with a full 3D renderer, and 4 background layers, 2 of which can rotate/scale. The 3D renderer gives it a nearly unlimited sprite count, and "virtual" backgrounds, without any per-scanline limitations. It lacks an MJPEG decoder, though I believe it has some sort of hardware acceleration for FMV, but it does not run at a consistant 30 fps, in any case.

The PC-FX's audio chip, SoundBox, is basically the sound chip from the PCE with 2 stereo ADPCM channels, and the ability to stream redbook audio. It's very not-fancy, though it certainly gets the job done.
The Saturn has a whole processor dedicated to handling any sound tasks, has 3 timers, a DMA channel, a full Yamaha FM sound generator, MIDI input support (not the general MIDI soundfont, it's a way to control the sound channels), and a total of 32 sound channels (which can be mixed and matched between FM and PCM) with a DSP that can apply 16 different effects.

In essence, the PC-FX was rather low-power for the time, however if they had actually released it with the 3D chip that was on their PC-FXGA boards, it might have stood a chance (the fill-rate, though slower than the Saturn even, was not too bad).

Also, I fully expect us homebrewers to be able to unlock the full power of this device; it's basically a PC-Engine on super-steroids, though we rarely saw anything that was even as good as most PCE software.

I've asked before, and I'll ask again. Someone port Doom to the FX.  Sure Doom is on everything known to man, but the FX needs it.  Also the PS1 and Saturn Doom ports are terrible, a good 32-bit console port needs to be made!  DO IT!

Haha, I'm sorry, that will probably never happen. The PC-FX just doesn't have the sprite power to do it unfortunately.

[SuperDeadite]

If the f*cking SNES can run Doom the PC-FX sure as hell can.  (SNES Doom is shit I know, but still)

[Arkhan]

It's a perfect example of FMV not catching on properly. 

but, I think Doom can be done on the PC-FX.  128 sprites should be plenty.  Do I want to do this? hell no.  But I bet it could be done by someone with enough mental issues to try it.

They put Doom on the Spectrum. 

I'm not sure how it will handle Doom without the 3D chip though, since doom had multi-floors, lighting, rounded rooms, etc.

at the very least it could do Wolfenstein.


also FWIW: Soundbox is better than the Saturn/PSX sound.  Chirp chirp chirp.

[Mathius]

I've asked before, and I'll ask again. Someone port Doom to the FX.  Sure Doom is on everything known to man, but the FX needs it.  Also the PS1 and Saturn Doom ports are terrible, a good 32-bit console port needs to be made!  DO IT!

What? Doom on the PS1 was excellent! It had the best soundtrack too.

[SamIAm]

Wow, thanks for the insightful post, trap15. I have a few of questions, if you don't mind.

Are the 7up chips the only ones that draw sprites? 
Do the 7up chips have the same color palette limitations as the PCE?
Is it possible to freely layer the 7up planes/sprites and the KING planes in any way you like, or are there priority restrictions?
How can the MPEG layer be integrated into a real game?

Also, I think the commonly assumed number of planes that the Saturn's VDP2 can generate is five. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a mistake; after all, there are people who think that the PCE has dual CPUs and that the Sega CD can do HAM like the Amiga. However, I think that five was the number that Sega themselves put out. Have you verified it personally to be four (or trusted someone else who has)?

[Arkhan]

I just had an obnoxious idea for a game.  yknow, what if the background was entirely animated like a cartoon using mjpeg encoder, and you moved a sprite along it all platformer style.

It would be like playing a cartoon.  all flipbook style!  it would be alot of work to draw it so it doesnt look hokey but...

Imagine how neat that would look!  man.

[thesteve]

re do china warrior that way arkhan

[SamIAm]

I just had an obnoxious idea for a game.  yknow, what if the background was entirely animated like a cartoon using mjpeg encoder, and you moved a sprite along it all platformer style.

I like this. Some early cartoons used live-filmed footage for complex backdrops, which was both effective and presumably easy for the animators. Something filmed out of a car window with a steady-cam could be great for a platformer, and a piece of cake for anyone with the equipment.

You could possibly have the frames advance according to the horizontal movement of the player character, like Dracula on the Sega CD. You would be limited to proceeding in only one direction, though, unless it's practical to have the system play the footage in reverse at any time.

[Arkhan]

You could possibly have the frames advance according to the horizontal movement of the player character, like Dracula on the Sega CD. You would be limited to proceeding in only one direction, though, unless it's practical to have the system play the footage in reverse at any time.

I really like this idea too.  But going reverse would look tarded, especially if you've got trees and stuff swaying in the breeze.  It would look unnatural probably.

China Warrior FX could be a good candidate!

[SamIAm]

But going reverse would look tarded, especially if you've got trees and stuff swaying in the breeze.  

That's pretty much it: the only way it would look natural in reverse is if everything in the environment was 100% static. Also, the camera not shaking would become especially important because your eyes would pick up repeat shakes all too clearly.

[SignOfZeta]

I agree this is a great idea. FMV backgrounds have been done before, mainly in boring Euro shooters, but something more like the previously mentioned old cartoons would be wonderful.

For reference: Betty Boop Meets the Little King (something like that) and Popeye versus Sinbad (this one is f*cking magic, btw). These use miniature models filmed with a tracking camera with cells on top, not exactly what Arkhan was talking about, but it does look really cool.

[Arkhan]

I was thinking more like someone who can f*ckin draw good, doing some badass anime or highly detailed omgDVDQuality drawings/animations for the background.

None of this janky looking real outside world crap.   Cartoons!