Author Topic: NES emulator  (Read 3268 times)

BigusSchmuck

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NES emulator
« on: November 06, 2011, 08:38:19 AM »
I heard there was some work being done for a NES emulator for the PC-Engine/Turbo-Grafx, was curious if anyone knew any more information about it.

Arkhan

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2011, 09:03:32 AM »
Tom was doing that.  He was emulating certain games, like Mega Man / Mega Man 2, and some other stuff.  Haven't heard much about any of that in awhile.

It wasn't like a "plays any nes rom you want" thing.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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nodtveidt

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2011, 09:23:34 AM »
I don't think it was emulation though, I think it was modifying the binary to make it run on the PC Engine.

Arkhan

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2011, 09:59:27 AM »
Well whatever it was, its probably dead now.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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BigusSchmuck

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2011, 12:59:38 PM »
Thats a shame, would have been funny to say a 8-bit system is emulation yet another 8-bit system. ^^

nodtveidt

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2011, 01:44:41 PM »
I wrote a CHIP-8 emulator for the PCE... but it was broken and didn't work. I then rebuilt it on the Nintendo DS and got it to work, but planned on putting it back on the PCE where I started it. I never did get to it though. I should some day. :D

Arkhan

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2011, 02:17:58 PM »
The only thing the PCE should emulate is the MSX.

yeah!
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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nodtveidt

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2011, 02:39:23 PM »
Make it happen! lol :D

Edmond Dantes

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2011, 04:11:27 PM »
This is... an interesting concept, but I can't see much practical value in running an NES emulator on a PC Engine.

I'd rather NES games actually be ported.  Specifically, we need Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 (PC-E got part one... why not the rest?)

Arkhan

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 12:24:05 AM »
I have roms from the early 90s of NES games working on the PCE.  Some even have altered music.  SMB has PCE sounding music instead of straight ported music.

So, this was back in 1993.  It's more than doable now.  I doubt anyone will take the time to accomplish this.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 08:16:17 AM »
This is... an interesting concept, but I can't see much practical value in running an NES emulator on a PC Engine.

I'd rather NES games actually be ported.  Specifically, we need Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 (PC-E got part one... why not the rest?)

I 2nd that.  While I want to make new games for the Turbob, I also have a wishlist of games I'd like to bring over from the NES & remake them, like the Contra's, make them graphically arcade perfect, while keeping the layouts of the NES versions.

Bonknuts

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 09:48:18 AM »
I don't think it was emulation though, I think it was modifying the binary to make it run on the PC Engine.

 It's actually both. There isn't really a good reason to try and emulate a 6502 when it can just run 6502 native code. Only the port writes and reads are patched in the binary (from lda port or lda port,x and sta port or sta port,x opcodes are patched to JSR xxxx since they are the same length). Everything else is realtime emulation; video, audio, mapper, etc. I love NES games, but there's no way I would spend the time to completely rewrite the hardware interface routines for native PCE hardware. My love for such games doesn't extend that far. Or rather, my free time required for such a thing.

Quote
I'd rather NES games actually be ported.  Specifically, we need Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 (PC-E got part one... why not the rest?)
Once the games are up and running, there's no reason why you couldn't upgrade them. I mean, other than taking the time to disassemble and understand the game structure/routines enough to modify them. I did this with Megaman 1. I RE'd the metasprite for the game objects, then changed megaman sprite itself to single 32x32 sprite frames (using more vram than what NES could access). I also upgraded the colors to 4bit. And I did this by upgrading the NES video emulation itself (added new functionality to unused bits in the sprite table entries) that didn't specifically break backwards compatibility. It allowed me to upgraded in steps without breaking a ton of stuff.


 I did provided the source code templates and project files for people to make modifications themselves or get other NES games working on the core system, but I guess the setup is just too advanced for the average hacker or such a steep learning curve. I dunno. It does require you to be intimately familiar with both the NES and PCE on the lowest level. I only know of one person besides myself that actually did anything with my source files; an NES emulation author toyed with it to get Contra up and running on the PCE (although I have my own version up and running).

 To the general public: don't expect anything from this. Yes, I do work on this stuff from time to time, but it's at my own leisure and for fun/hobby/etc. I'm doing this for myself and not specifically for the general public (which is why I've kept quite a bit of the other NES games running on PCE private), though I will share stuff publicly from time to time. So please no requests or such. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just don't want to lead anybody on or get peoples hopes up/whatever. If you have the know-how/experience though, and are interested in this sort of thing, I'd be happy to provide the material and explain any detail I can.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:51:05 AM by Bonknuts »

Arkhan

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2011, 10:09:27 AM »
I did provided the source code templates and project files for people to make modifications themselves or get other NES games working on the core system, but I guess the setup is just too advanced for the average hacker or such a steep learning curve. I dunno.
:roll:

Are you sure it's just a matter of noone else wanting to, or it not being documented well enough for anyone to bother wanting to sit and figure out what you're doing?
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Bonknuts

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2011, 11:51:42 AM »
I did provided the source code templates and project files for people to make modifications themselves or get other NES games working on the core system, but I guess the setup is just too advanced for the average hacker or such a steep learning curve. I dunno.
:roll:

Are you sure it's just a matter of noone else wanting to, or it not being documented well enough for anyone to bother wanting to sit and figure out what you're doing?

 Oooh, I'm sure the vast majority just don't give a crap about the PCE or want to do this in general. I have no delusions there. I'm sure there are plenty of smart people out there that could follow what's going on in the source code, provided the source with the rom itself (how it's used) and running it through an emulator/debugger. Not to mention I've personally offered to answer any questions or just help outright, to speed things along. Also, hacker types specifically don't have the luxury of comments let alone source code for most of their working environments. They take things apart and figure it out for themselves. My lack of comments in the source would have little to no effect on them.

 Like I said, you need to know both the PCE and the NES hardware intimately in detail. Finding someone just for PCE that really know its in and outs, is hard enough by itself. I've been told by quite a few that are very capable low level console coders, RE'rs and such, that this was an incredible feat. So I'm not pulling that assumption out of my ass. At the very least, it makes for a steep learning curve - commented code or not. I'd say this isn't for beginning or intermediate console coders. But hey, I could be wrong :)

The Finland hacking team did this back in the mid 90's, but they specifically chose very simple games (relative to NES hardware use) and also rewrote portions of code to avoid some emulation problems/complexity (sometimes large parts and including the data). My approach is 98% emulation, 2% hacking. The emulation code and approach is much more complex as a result, but it makes the source more portable than game specific. And also results in less overall time in getting the game up and running.



 

BigusSchmuck

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Re: NES emulator
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2011, 01:33:11 PM »
Quote
The Finland hacking team did this back in the mid 90's, but they specifically chose very simple games (relative to NES hardware use) and also rewrote portions of code to avoid some emulation problems/complexity (sometimes large parts and including the data). My approach is 98% emulation, 2% hacking. The emulation code and approach is much more complex as a result, but it makes the source more portable than game specific. And also results in less overall time in getting the game up and running.
Curious, was that group responsible for the porting of the original Super Mario Brothers to the PCE? I for one would be interested in getting into programming/hacking again, but I fear my job takes up a good portion of my time these days...