Author Topic: What should my next Master System game be?  (Read 1818 times)

DragonmasterDan

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2012, 07:25:56 AM »


Same problem as with almost every other tabletop template RPG really, trite, uninspired awfully designed, none engaging gameplay.

Press X to win for 30-150 hours. At least the original Final Fantasy broke up all those pressings of X with the occasional "pay a little attention now" boss battle every few hours or so. As someone who appreciates good game design playing an RPG is like going to work, only there is no paycheck to prevent suicide at the end.

As for the first person dungeon parts, those are actually my vision of hell. No christian visions of imps eternally poking your balls with triforks for me, no sir, to me hell is being stuck in an endless drab labyrinth of uniform square corridors.

Then again my longstanding impression of RPG fans has been that they play those types of games for reasons not relating to gameplay. Only to my mind that is a loony proposition.

I like games that have elements of exploring involved, what made Phantasy Star fun, or Dragon Warrior fun was running around the map, finding items and weird things. Those games are a lot of fun because you explore by yourself. Now if you're using a guide or an FAQ a lot of the fun is taken out when you know exactly where you need to go. The gameplay of running around and having to figure out where to go next (not just in RPGs but in games like Metroid or Zelda) is part of the fun.
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Samurai Ghost

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2012, 08:58:38 AM »
Been on a bit of a Master System collecting kick myself these days. I'd definitely pick up Phantasy Star. Yes, you do have to grind for levels in a few areas, but if you just grind at two points in the game you can breeze through the rest without much difficulty. To me it's one of the few 8 bit RPGs that really stand the test of time. Unique characters and setting, amazing music, and the graphics and animation are still impressive to me. The 3D dungeons look amazing. I play through Phantasy Star every few years and it's a joy each time I do. To me it's a must-own for the system.

Keranu

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2012, 09:11:03 AM »
Get Mortem Kombat.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

majors

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012, 01:46:24 AM »
My ever fav SMS games:

Hang On (such an excellent game)
I like this guy! Hang-on was the most played cart on my SMS in my younger days. R-Type and PS were a close second.

Talking Phantasy Star, I think it was the ONLY console RPG I ever beat. I hated "fantasy" style ones like Dragon, Final and Ultima back then.
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Arkhan

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2012, 02:32:16 AM »
So does everyone else not like Cyborg Hunter?
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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futureman2000

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2012, 03:08:23 AM »
I don't particularly like Cyborg Hunter, but maybe I didn't give it a fair shot. What do you like about it?
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Arkhan

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2012, 03:34:26 AM »
I particularly like the map up top, as it makes me feel like I am the character.

I also like the theme in general, and the Zillion-esque maze style of the levels.

The challenge is also very good, and the controls don't suck.  

Even the non FM music is pretty good.

I dunno, the whole thing is just really fun.


it also vaguely reminds me of this game Relics for MSX in game style.  That was an exceptional (and underrated) game.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 03:36:25 AM by Arkhan »
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

Samurai Ghost

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2012, 07:40:12 AM »
So does everyone else not like Cyborg Hunter?


Never played it but almost bought a copy the other day for the cover art alone. "f*ck you robot, imma shoot you in your cold robo-heart!!"


roflmao

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2012, 08:07:01 AM »
Never played it but almost bought a copy the other day for the cover art alone. "f*ck you robot, imma shoot you in your cold robo-heart!!"




Yeah!  I've never even heard of the game before today, but man that cover art is awesome!

DragonmasterDan

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2012, 08:27:56 AM »

Never played it but almost bought a copy the other day for the cover art alone. "f*ck you robot, imma shoot you in your cold robo-heart!!"




The cover looks like a late 70s to early 80s Hair Band album cover.
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Arkhan

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2012, 09:10:18 AM »
It's an excellent game, really.


My copy is in the black box.  I think that version with the white background was a UK thing maybe.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Samurai Ghost

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2012, 10:43:35 AM »
It's an excellent game, really.


My copy is in the black box.  I think that version with the white background was a UK thing maybe.

Yeah I like the black box version a bit better but it kind of looks more like a Genesis game in that way.

jeffhlewis

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2012, 10:59:22 AM »
My faves from the childhood days:

-Outrun (probably my most played game; really good conversion given the system's limits)
-Shinobi
-Phantasy Star
-Wonderboy in Monster Land
-Wonderboy III (in hindsight, probably the best game for the system)
-Shooting Gallery (really fun lightgun shooter; kind of like a poor man's Point Blank)
-Rampage (really good port of the arcade game)

As far as PAL games go - definitely pick up Master of Darkness; it's awesome.

One that I don't see mentioned a lot is Spellcaster (Kujaku Ō in Japan; its sequel Kujaku Ō 2 was released on the Genny as Mystic Defender). It's a really weird and fun Japanese action/adventure game. I have no idea why they decided to translate it and bring it out in English-speaking markets but I'm glad they did!

kamiboy

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2012, 03:11:39 PM »
All I got out of this is "Hello, I have no imagination".

You're like that kid that plays D&D for the dice rolling combat portions, and complains when anything else is happening.

'WHO CARES ABOUT THIS STUPID NPC LETS JUST KILL SHIT IVE GOT AN AXE LETS GO"


What's wrong with the gameplay?  You're adventuring around, piecing together a great story.  Would you rather it cut to a Marioesque style game every time you walk out of a town? lol

I am not that kid that plays D&D, period. I am that kid that plays video games because of that medium’s rules and mechanics based nature. I certainly take no interest in video games for the sake of alien, unwelcome and tumorous concepts like narrative being ham fistedly forced into them by people who would rather write novels or direct movies but are too untalented to ever succeed in those fields. The very same people who then proceed to view this medium as ripe for sullying in a misguided attempt to realize their unfulfilled ambitions by proxy.

It certainly doesn't help that a bunch of kids and man-children who don't know any better actually praise these subpar efforts and hold them in high esteem, usually while being high on a powerful cocktail of nostalgia and ignorance.

Of course this only prompts esteemed critics of the mediums being ever so poorly imitated to then proceed to misunderstand what this medium is actually really about at the core thus claiming that games can never attain the lofty status of being regarded as an equal peer to the much more noble blue blooded mediums of film and literature, no sir.

The deuce you say mister critic, of course games wont ever be able do that, that is and never was their purpose, the comparison alone is farcical. This medium has a set of completely different goals and success criteria than those other narrative based mediums and these goals are all related to the origin of the medium’s name, “game”, something that you play.

But then let us take a shallow gander at the so called game mechanics behind a large subset of the RPG genre. Rip open the thin veneer and therein lies exposed the ugly hunchbacked form of the problem itself. There at the core is a tabletop game inside and at the core of almost every video game RPG.

When you exercise your sole interactive privilege within the combat system of Phantasy Star and games of its ilk by picking that "Fight" option over and over again, what you are actually doing is participating in a virtual abstraction of a tabletop dice roll.

You choose a menu command to roll a dice and see how much damage you did. That is just about as engaging as pushing the play button on a slot machine to see how much money you won.

It is this chicken brained, straight faced translation of mechanics made purposefully simple so as to be a playable tabletop activity for a group of humans using pen and paper over to the powerful computer with its infinite more possibilities that is at the rotten heart of this genre. That very same rotten heart which would give me infinite pleasure to rip out and shit upon.

RPG’s were off to a lobotomized brain dead start and lo, thirty odd years later I struggle to count on one hand the number of computer RPG's that actually take the philosophical concept of the tabletop experience, the concept of adventuring, the sole element that actually made it fun, and try to implement this divorced of its simple tabletop derived implementation in order to instead take full advantage of the starkly different competencies of the video game medium as opposed to the limitations of the tabletop medium.

RPG’s like Demon's and Dark Souls are true video game takes on the concept of fantasy adventuring in this medium.

Unfortunately such titles count for sub 1% of the genre. The rest is a miasma of nostalgic tabletop derived wank material that I do not deem fit for wiping my ass with let alone play.

What would you get if you hacked the program of most menu based RPGs to realize the following rule:

When an encounter is about to be triggered, run a sequence of quick simulations of the current party fighting these enemies by just picking the “Fight” option for a few rounds. If one average the fight can easily be won by doing this then skip the fight and instead add the experience that would have been won to the party. What you would get is many an hour of walking around without anything happening. Is this really good game design? No, it is a farce, a farce that should have ended over 30 years ago.

They can keep their ham fisted narrative too. In my decades long attempt to dissect this decadent medium I've played dozens of its offerings and not even under pain of torture could I recall a single morsel of the many cliched trite plots being forced down my throat by way of dense, unnecessary and utterly clumsy forced exposition.

Upon completion all memory of it is all gone like the intolerable stench of passed flatulence. Which is funny because I can recall in detail the plots of any favored novel that I've read, even years after having completed them.

So why do I keep coming back to genre? Because of its potential, the potential for passively established atmosphere, large worlds to explore at whim and deep, deep, deep rewarding mechanics that will take tens, hundreds of hours to master fully and offers fun, fun, fun.

After decades of all that potential being wasted on moving forward on tabletop grid like maze of corridors underground and pressing X to roll dices there finally was two people in the game design world that got it and realized the potential.

Yasumi Matsuno and Hidetaka Miyazaki, I wish I could carve your likeness upon a mountain side and worship you, you gods of gaming.

roflmao

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Re: What should my next Master System game be?
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2012, 04:09:19 PM »
Kamiboy, I am thankful you are a member here in the forums.  Your thoughtful, well articulated posts (like the one above) are a step above all the newbies that join just for the sake of completing  their collection.  It's great when new members come here and post intellectually stimulating responses such as you did.

I can see where you're coming from, however, I think your response is flawed, and here's why.  If one was to attempt to play an rpg via video game (be it console or PC), the game (at least in this day and age) just isn't capable of thinking on the fly.  Real life, face-to-face RPGs aren't about combat.  That's often a major part of the game, but the true intent of a role playing game is the ROLE PLAYING.  A gamemaster/dungeon master can plan a campaign all they want, but the players ultimately control the storymaking just as much as the GM/DM.  A good GM/DM can come up with something on the fly, either to go in a new unexpected direction or to drive the players back to the pre-planned story.  That isn't an option in a computer/console rpg.  Therefore, most computer/console rpgs have shifted their focus to some of the more constant/familiar elements of an RPG, such as combat, rather than storyline development.  This is the case with most Japanese console RPGs.  And as RPG gamers, we have recoginzed and accepted that.  Most JRPGS have a completely incomprehensible storyline, but they are still all sorts of fun.

I was about to go onto Western RPGs, such as Skyrim and the other Elder Scroll games being more open ended, but it's getting late and I didn't have a clear point, so I'm cutting it.   :mrgreen:

I just think that there is merit to accepting and appreciating console RPGs for what they have been for the past couple of decades, even though they can't truly emulate a real RPG.  They are a related, but separate beast.  And many of us love having that diversity. :D