Author Topic: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?  (Read 897 times)

thesteve

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 05:38:53 AM »
120hz means it updates 2X per frame.
if it has a way to turn postprocessing off it should be decent.

SignOfZeta

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2012, 06:22:03 AM »
The lag on a modern HDTV of decent quality is NOT going to be even slightly noticable. My Panasonic plasma has a response time of 0.001 milliseconds.

The LCD component itself might have a lag that small, but its impossible for an SD signal to have that little lag displayed on an HDTV. The least lag of any line doubler is an XRGB series box, and even they have a lag of one field (ie: half a frame) which is 16ms. Most (probably all) scalers built into TVs are going to lag by at least an entire frame (which is 33ms) since they need to wait for an entire frame to be displayed before they can scale it and then send to the LCD, which will also take some time.

That .001ms time Panasonic quoted is probably the time it takes for the actual pixel to change color once the voltage reaches it. This is great for reducing motion blur and ghosting. There is a lot more to an HDTV signal path that that though.
You make a very valid point. Still, 33ms is negligible. Anyone who says they can notice that during gameplay is full of it as far as I'm concerned.

I'll adapt to 50ms of lag with no issues. If I've never played the game on another display I'll not even notice it. A frame is actually significant though, as hardcore VF people know.

fraggore

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 07:19:18 AM »
my samsung 32 is pretty good to be honest but there is a little lag compared to my crt
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8bitForLife

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 08:48:23 AM »
i cant really notice any on mine. I can hook up my Duo rx to the component and it works so i guess my tv supports 240p and I'm not sure or not but there isn't any lag that I can see. It comes out a black and white picture if I hook it up with composite to the Y input. Correct me if I'm wrong. If this tv is good should spreed the word but the only draw back is no s-video on it and only one component and you would need a component selector to take advantage.
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jonzo

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 11:12:31 AM »
As far as I'm aware, all HDTVs have to scale an image, even if they support 240p.

The scaling occurs to take the input input image up to the native resolution of the display.

thesteve

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 11:14:30 AM »
As far as I'm aware, all HDTVs have to scale an image, even if they support 240p.

The scaling occurs to take the input input image up to the native resolution of the display.

correct, but the methods very

jonzo

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 01:52:10 PM »
Which is why when playing on HDTV I tend to use XRGB-3 and DVDO Edge - although they don't play nice with PCE  ](*,)

For PCE normally use Sony PVM via RGB.

jonzo

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 01:58:41 PM »
Slightly off-topic, but related to my previous post - has anyone come up with a way to stabilise the sync signal from the PCE? 

From what I can tell, the amplification of sync is not a solution to poor sync, it's that it is not stable (frequency fluctuates).

thesteve

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 02:15:32 PM »
its an amplification prob only
the  2 transistor circuit on the left fixes it

kazekirifx

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 02:23:52 PM »
I have the most trouble playing pinball games with the lag.


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roflmao

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 05:44:13 PM »
I have a TG-16-CD  setup in my living room hooked up to a 47" LCD and have always noticed a lag, making it pretty much unplayable (aside from rpgs and military madness).  Until now, I've had the console running through my receiver, but thanks to the long weekend and a bit of inspiration, I routed it through my TV *then* into the receiver and now not only is the picture MUCH cleaner, but there is no lag!  Woo hoo!

Kaijuboy

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2012, 06:07:09 PM »
You make a very valid point. Still, 33ms is negligible. Anyone who says they can notice that during gameplay is full of it as far as I'm concerned.

For "normal" games, i agree that its not *too* big of a deal, but on stuff like music games, 30-50ms lag is quite noticeable. Its the difference between "Goods" and "Greats" in scoring.  That's why so many of the recent games have a lag setting/test to adjust for this.

Another thing that people dont mention is the SIZES of these new TVs.  Its been proven that your brain sees and processes the same data faster on a smaller screen than on a larger one.  So there is the "Human Lag" to factor in here to...

jonzo

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 06:34:44 PM »
thesteve: Will give it a go.  I've not tried a dual-transistor approach.  Only tried none, and single.  Ta.

thesteve

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 07:04:05 PM »
the trick is transistors are fast, but offer current or voltage gain.
amp chips offer nice signal characteristics, but cant handle TTL switching
TTL chips cant handle millivolt signals
voltage gain always inverts the signal.
the first transistor amplifies the signal and inverts it.
the second transistor inverts it back at full rail to rail amplitude 5V TTL (usable by almost anything)

8bitForLife

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Re: rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 07:10:24 PM »
120hz means it updates 2X per frame.
if it has a way to turn postprocessing off it should be decent.

not sure if mine cant or how to do it. It has alot of menu options for the inputs like compression and stuff like that.
Turbo Duo Rx Turbo Grafx 16, Atari 2600 5200 7800 Jaguar + CD Starpath Supercharger, Gba DS DSI 3Ds Nes Snes N64 VB GC Wii, Xbox Xbox 360, Ps1 Ps2 Ps3 Psp Fat Psp slim, GenesisV3 CDX Nomad Saturn Dreamcast JP USA, NGPC

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