If only the PCE was an SFC

[imparanoic]

I don't know why Hudson and NEC made the crappy PC Engine when they could have made the glorious SNES instead. They're so stupid. The PC Engine is like a NES only more NES-like than the NES. How crappy that system is. Everyone should hate it as soon as they can.

The TurboGrafx-16 kicks all sorts of ass, though.

Super famicom was released in November 1990, PC engine was released in October 1987 ( by comparison, Master system ( mark 3) was released 2 years prior to pc engine) ,

3 years is long period of time, performance and technology over 3 years would increase several folds, it's compare super famicom to a PSX (ps1) which was released 4 years ( Oct 1994) after SFC and how much of performance difference between both systems, same logic can be applied to Sega Dreamcast compared to PSX(ps1) which was released 4 years later

a simple comparsion like that is a bit unfair.

[SamIAm]

I agree in a sense, but comparisons are inevitable since the two systems were in competition for a certain period.

Now, I have no intention of using this to argue one system over the other, but I think the Bomberman games give an enlightening perspective on the audio of the SNES and PCE. Many of the basic melodies are the same, for one thing. For another, Hudson put real effort into them, and it shows. The first two Super Bomberman games sound dull, but by the third, they had gotten the hang of it.

(The following are all the same songs.)

Super Bomberman 3 (via SPC, 32khz sample rate):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/muthmi0k9tjtg8e/1-1.%20Super%20Bomberman%203.mp3?dl=0
Bomberman PCE (via HES):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lcaloito7ffpfbh/1-2.%20Bomberman%20PCE.mp3?dl=0

Super Bomberman 3 (enhanced with 44.1khz sound):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j07jtpcr6if7szj/1-3.%20Bomberman%203%20SNES%20Enchanced.mp3?dl=0


Super Bomberman 3 (unenhanced):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyrhm55xlx17yvw/2-1.%20Super%20Bomberman%203.mp3?dl=0
Bomberman 93:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ptjxjqpwtxwqw83/2-2.%20Bomberman%2093.mp3?dl=0


Super Bomberman 4 (unenhanced):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/olqg1o6ib8g7g2b/3-1.%20Super%20Bomberman%204.mp3?dl=0
Bomberman 94 (HES):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bumei7d6togbtv9/3-2.%20Bomberman%2094.mp3?dl=0


Also, here is the official OST rip of the title screen of Magical Chase, preceded by a HES version:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9y7shn7ws80ita/4-1.%20Magical%20Chase%20-%20HES.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cyr1tesd9le3d6a/4-2.%20Magical%20Chase%20-%20OST.mp3?dl=0

I remember comparing the OST to the real game when it came out, and they're very close.


By the way, I used to compare the sound of SPC (emulated SNES sound) to the real thing. If you adjust the settings in your SPC player to be close to the real thing, particularly the sample rate, it's pretty similar. I used a real system, but you can judge for yourself by using an official CD soundtrack.

Unenhanced SPC:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c36igosuvd5nw/5-1.%20Corridors%20of%20Time%20-%20SPC.mp3?dl=0
OST rip:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s4s76mhqd555gb/5-2.%20-%20Corridors%20of%20Time%20-%20OST.mp3?dl=0

EDIT: I might as well add the enhanced SPC if anyone is interested.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7p5w2f7m0tpjcii/5-3.%20-%20Corridors%20of%20Time%20-%20Enhanced.mp3?dl=0


Finally, to my ear anyway, Genesis music seems to get the most drastic boost from emulation enhancement. I'll see if I can track down a good rip from a real system for comparison.

VGM rip at 44.1khz:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wu1hmcpy2d4qjzv/6-1.%20Wave%20131%20VGM.mp3?dl=0

Direct rip:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2akg75i5kwfy4w6/6-2.%20Wave%20131%20Rip.mp3?dl=0

[Joe Redifer]

Depends on the Genesis. Sounds like a bad model 2 or maybe a model 1 VA7 you have there for your direct rip.

Never use OST released to just a console's sound quality. Quite often the OST will add unneeded bullshit like reverb or echo and other idiotic effects. I can say, though, that your SPC player sounds awful. I just compared your Chrono Trigger SPC recording with mine that was recorded using a real-life SNES system. The SPC sounds very shrill. The OST actually sounds pretty much like the SNES version.

[SamIAm]

The guy who ripped the Genesis track did it with a VA6.

SOURCE: Modded Model 1 Sega Genesis - Unamplified audio signal from VA6 motherboard
AUDIO CAPTURE HARDWARE: Amplified by FiiO E6, captured by Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro
AUDIO CAPTURE SOFTWARE: Audacity 2.0.3

Yeah, the SPC player I'm using isn't very good at simulating a real SNES; it's just got the best hi-fi options. On the other hand, there's an SPC plugin for winamp that I used to have long ago that nobody seems to use anymore since it didn't have 44.1khz playback. It only had 32khz, which is what the real system used. It sounded very good.

I'm at work now and I only have dollar store ear beads to listen with, but I'll look into this more deeply later.

But the Chrono Trigger and Magical Chase OSTs are basically straight rips, and I think they're OK to use for comparison.

[SamIAm]

Here we go. Compare this direct rip of Soldier Blade Operation 3 to the HES version, and you can hear my single biggest beef with the format: drums get screwed up a lot. Listen at 0:25.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cysia232mui05oe/7-1.%20Operation%203%20HES.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmq7v4guxfo0j69/7-2%20Operation%203%20Rip.mp3?dl=0

Also, I added an enhanced SPC file for the original/emulation comparison above. In addition, I think that I figured out why my first SPC rips sounded so bad. The original SNES uses Gaussian interpolation, so my SPC player defaults to Gaussian when choosing "Like the SNES" mode. However, in emulation, this winds up sounding a little strange for some reason. I used cubic interpolation together with 32khz sampling and re-ripped everything, and updated all the "unenhanced" files I uploaded before accordingly. It's much closer to the real thing now.

[Joe Redifer]

I like listening to stuff on the actual hardware (or recordings made from them). I don't like the emulated sounds. I can play SPCs on my SNES and with a bit of work making them into ROMs, VGMs on my Genesis. HES will also play on the Turbo if you rename them from .hes to .pce and play them from the Turbo Everdrive. Unfortunately only part of the PCE library has been made to HES. Would love some giant ROM that has the chiptunes from all games (CDs included) on it with a text GUI so we know what we're listening to. NSFs can't be played on real hardware yet to my knowledge.

[SamIAm]

!!

.hes files will play in a real system with an Everdrive!?

Damn, I might have to try my hand at ripping the Aldynes soundtrack. That drum issue I mentioned is audible in nearly every track. It's a shame, because it's one of my favorite PCE games and soundtracks.

This might sound like sacrilege, but I like the sound of the VGM format for Genesis at 44.1khz more than I like the real hardware. I've used most of the models out there, but I like how bright VGM sounds. Plus, it led me to the discovery that my favorite Genesis song, Hydrocity Zone Act 2, sounds better if you slow it down a little.  

Or a lot.

[esteban]

SamIAm: I will be listening/comparing these different files this weekend. Thank you posting all of the comparisons.

 

[ccovell]

Unfortunately only part of the PCE library has been made to HES. Would love some giant ROM that has the chiptunes from all games (CDs included) on it with a text GUI so we know what we're listening to. NSFs can't be played on real hardware yet to my knowledge.

That's a good idea, and I've dreamt of it too...  maybe some distant future project.

And the NES PowerPak has an NSF playing mapper, so they can be played on real hardware.

[Necromancer]

Thanks for sharing the tunes, sam.

Super Bomberman 3 (via SPC, 32khz sample rate)

This one sounds like shit, with way too much reverb/echo, but the other two tracks sound okay compared to the PCE originals.  I wouldn't say they're better, though, just different.

[SamIAm]

^^^Really? I like that one first one the best out of those three. Sure it has a lot of reverb, and sure the SNES has a lot of games where the audio programmers got carried away with reverb, but I think that track uses it well. It's got a very nice bass, too.

Here's another example of why HES kind of bums me out. The first stage of Legendary Axe has a white-noise percussion effect going on, and in HES, it gets considerably amplified. It's grating, and it's hard to hear the melody.

HES:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jh6dj66k96s2jii/9-1.%20Legendary%20Axe%20-%20Rip.mp3?dl=0

Direct rip:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/15lrzbwb4ungu8c/9-2.%20Legendary%20Axe%20-%20HES.mp3?dl=0

[ccovell]

Perhaps it's not the HES' fault, but the player?  (Like WinAmp plugin, etc?)  Perhaps it's because the Turbo sound hardware uses logarithmic volume, while PC sound card DACs use linear?  Just a theory.

[SamIAm]

Yeah, I should have been more specific. It's most likely the player itself that's causing the problem. AFAIK, I'm using the best player available.

On the other hand, even some emulators are more accurate. It should be possible to use the renaming trick for HES files to get very clean rips from emulators.

[esteban]

I am finally listening to the goodness! Yay weekend!


My thoughts to follow...

[spenoza]

I confess that I am very impressed with those two SFC Bomberman tracks. I actually kinda like them a little better than the PCE versions. They are not overly laden with reverb and other SNES trickery and are better straight tracks.

Also, it DOES sound like they're playing with the equalizer a little on the Magical Chase OST track. It sounds a little better, with the bass boosted a little, over the original hardware.