Author Topic: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?  (Read 2405 times)

NightWolve

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2015, 04:34:43 AM »
Yeah, I think we'll be OK with ED.

So to reiterate, for Ziria here and other games, my advice to Sam was to watch the "fat" in the script. Also, the space compression idea is now listed and tested, so if EsperKnight did have recompression excess, that might be an idea worth trying. I think if he can fit a VW font hack, he could most certainly do that.

It seems you indicate that you can get by, whatever the game (forget ED), if CD upgrade to SCD, or if SCD upgrade to ACD, etc. and thus avoid the need for creating your own custom system card based on what I read. But, you really like the idea even still ? My feeling/preference is for the upgrade route before going as far as the custom system card route, but yeah, you would know better as to what games are impossible to do without the latter. I'd just play it on an emulator if I was even interested in whatever future game you targeted using the idea.

Necromancer

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2015, 05:13:48 AM »
As a greedy f*cker that wants sweet games to play in English, I'm cool with having to buy a special syscard to play 'em (everdrive or whatever).  If it means more games get done in less time, that a game doesn't get a severely truncated translation to fit, or it saves a game from being abandoned as too difficult/frustrating, it's totally worth having to pay a pittance for the card. 
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Bonknuts

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2015, 07:52:26 AM »

It seems you indicate that you can get by, whatever the game (forget ED), if CD upgrade to SCD, or if SCD upgrade to ACD, etc. and thus avoid the need for creating your own custom system card based on what I read. But, you really like the idea even still ? My feeling/preference is for the upgrade route before going as far as the custom system card route, but yeah, you would know better as to what games are impossible to do without the latter. I'd just play it on an emulator if I was even interested in whatever future game you targeted using the idea.

 Well, CD to SCD definitely. I did this for Dave's Cosmic Fantasy I project. SCD->ACD helps with having a place for the font to live outside the regular game (i.e. most games need a new font), and it can help with script compression issues (dictionary/string compression). But ACD still lacks in one thing; not extra space for replacement code. You can't always just overwrite the original game code. Sometimes it requires more space. One example is if the original print routine is complex and needs a lot of 'monitoring' and special case modification (you'd be surprised). Dead of the Brain required a LOT of this because of how the tiles and tilemap was setup. I basically ran out of space, which is why certain script stuff has to be manually don't with control codes on the script side and special attention to the format of the text. Which is why the project has stalled (needs special support utils to handle this pre-script insertion).

 Here's how an easy to make hucard with the original 256k SCD bios rom with a full 512k (hell, even just 256k vs 192k) can help: on your boot code, you load a special modified system card bank $00 into ram and map this to MPR 7. Games never change that, so once it's mapped - you're good to go. There is free space in the original rom's area, which is now ram, we can put our own custom call routines in there to the new ram. The original rom is there, making it compatible with original SCD games, *and* you have the ability to add upgrades by simply reserving 8k for a new/alt sys card fix lib bank. It's so simple, it's genius.

 I suggest 512k, because then homebrew could use it too. Why not get more purposes out of one card? And like I said, the card is super simple to make - no special hardware or mappers. You just need a hucard PCB that can accept two chips (one for lower 512k and one for upper 512k range).

 Technically, I can do something similar with the SGX, because of the additional 24k of ram, but then I'm limiting all gamers to have an SGX. Arcade Cards are awesome, but they have a lot of tech in them and are more prone to failure (I've already have two of them die), and it doesn't address all issues. A PCB, like the one the french guy made (silk marked in white) would make the perfect SCD+extended ram card.

NightWolve

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2015, 11:27:32 AM »
Ah, I gotcha. Makes sense.

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=2670.msg26815#msg26815

Maybe lobby krik about the idea before it's too late ?? Would be nice to get what you need in an all-in-one flashcart product considering he's mulling over adding ACD support.

SamIAm

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2015, 11:38:12 AM »
Ah, I gotcha. Makes sense.

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=2670.msg26815#msg26815

Maybe lobby krik about the idea before it's too late ?? Would be nice to get what you need in an all-in-one flashcart product considering he's mulling over adding ACD support.


Bonknuts, if there are any little details that krikzz should know about regarding how a system card would need to be set up on that new everdrive, the time is really ripe to contact him. He's not only a receptive guy, but I think he would appreciate the help from someone as knowledgeable as you.

I do think that the ideal thing would be for us to manufacture our own little card. For the time being, though, and for all who will eventually get one of these everdrives, it would be great to get this working.

technozombie

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2015, 01:26:43 PM »
If you guys got together and made a special system card, I'd buy it. In fact I think you deserve to make a little money off your hard work(I know that's not why you're doing it but still) doing these translations. The beauty of this card would be that there would be no copyright or IP infringement so you could sell it w/o concern.

TheOldMan

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2015, 01:45:26 PM »
Quote
Here's how an easy to make hucard with the original 256k SCD bios rom with a full 512k...

Use a 512K flash chip and a 512K RAM chip. Use a 2-4 demultiplexer chip, driven by A19 and A20 (so the $80000-$F0000 space is unmapped, leaving the hardware areas untouched, and unlikely to cause bus conflicts).
One ouput from the demux turns on the OE line of the flash, and another turns on the OE of the RAM.
Memory is split : $00000-$3FFFF would be the flash,  $40000-$7FFFF would be RAM. Ram would be available where expected, with an additional 64K at $80000 (standard system card 2.0 RAM) iirc.

If it didn't require $200+ to get 10 prototype cards made, I'd be working on it now.
(And Tom, consider this: with twice the ROM space, we could actually make a system card that would boot in either a us or jp system, without any modifications :)

SamIAm

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2015, 01:49:27 PM »
If it didn't require $200+ to get 10 prototype cards made, I'd be working on it now.

If you or anyone else with the skills (and the time and the reputation) would be interested in making a card but is put off by the overhead costs, let me know. I'm not rich, but fronting a couple hundred bucks is within my range and is something I would be glad to do.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 01:57:25 PM by SamIAm »

poponon

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2015, 03:09:56 PM »
If it didn't require $200+ to get 10 prototype cards made, I'd be working on it now.

If you or anyone else with the skills (and the time and the reputation) would be interested in making a card but is put off by the overhead costs, let me know. I'm not rich, but fronting a couple hundred bucks is within my range and is something I would be glad to do.

If you guys can figure out the total costing of the project, maybe you could do a preorder to cover the development costs?

spenoza

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2015, 04:23:21 PM »
I can guarantee they will do whatever they can to NOT take preorders, as they create obligation hell.
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TheOldMan

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2015, 01:34:49 AM »
Quote
If you guys can figure out the total costing of the project, maybe you could do a preorder to cover the development costs?
Quote
I can guarantee they will do whatever they can to NOT take preorders, as they create obligation hell.

+100
Flash chip is ~$4. Rom chip is ~$5, iirc. Demux chip is <$1.
I'm not ready to spend $200 on boards that may not work, though. I'm not an EE, and don't know how the chip timing works on a turbo. I would hate to spend $200+ on boards, and find out there is a problem requiring a re-design (and trashing all the old boards)

I might go ahead and do some home-etched boards (which won't be pretty) in the future, just for lulz. I just don't see a market for a new cd card.

poponon

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2015, 01:46:53 AM »

 I just don't see a market for a new cd card.


There's gotta be someway to gauge the interest in it. Arkhan was saying there were even around 100 orders for atlantean just on hold not to mention those already bought, maybe he'll have some more information that'd be helpful. I haven't looked into this sort of thing before so I'm not sure if that'd be enough to justify it. There are plenty of other places people would be interested in this too though

esteban

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2015, 07:40:27 AM »

If it didn't require $200+ to get 10 prototype cards made, I'd be working on it now.

If you or anyone else with the skills (and the time and the reputation) would be interested in making a card but is put off by the overhead costs, let me know. I'm not rich, but fronting a couple hundred bucks is within my range and is something I would be glad to do.

I would be willing to donate some $$$$ for prototype...knowing full-well that it might not work out as planned.

If just a few of us (here at pcefx) helped donate $$$$ towards prototype boards, it could help move project forward.

We should just make a disclaimer that (1) donations are donations and (2) several iterations of the board might be necessary.

:)

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SamIAm

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2015, 12:46:23 PM »
Thank you, esteban.

I am dead serious about wanting to do more translations on this system. To anyone who has some confidence and can at least promise to try to make the boards, I will front most or all of the money for prototype builds. That's with the understanding that you might not succeed.

If you do succeed, I can also help fund a building of 100+ cards, to be distributed at or near cost. TheOldMan, can you give me an estimate of what the cost of a finished card might be?

This should probably have its own thread, but I'll want to touch base with Bonknuts before making one.

deubeul

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Re: Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?
« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2015, 07:15:56 AM »
This card is a f*cking good idea and i'd be glad to donate  or buy or whatever.

TM2 maybe one day :pray: