Author Topic: the lost games!  (Read 3843 times)

Black Tiger

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the lost games!
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2006, 12:25:19 PM »
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You can talk theories, and programming skill, and single screen tech demos made 10 years after the death of the system, but the shit never actually happened on the PCE during its life which leads me to believe that it was either impossible, or such a bitch that it wasn't worth it because there is no shortage of good programing in the PCE library.



You make a good point here, and it's one that I agree with. SD3 was never ported to the PCE, and no one ever really asked for SD3 to come out on the PCE anyway, because there were already tons of other great programs. All the theories about "how" to do it (or not do it) don't matter, because all the talk in the world can't change the past.


Although I think that if systems weren't retired to make way for new ones, that development for those systems would continue to progress to new levels we'd have never believed(look at euro & brazil SMS, the short life span of the Arcade Card, or even where the Neo Geo got to)...

-it's fine and well to say that with most major consoles, they were more or less fully utilized during their time. But the PC Engine is one of the exceptions where, maybe cuz its a bitch to program for or because of the HuCard/CD formats...

-it wasn't really pushed to very much of it's potential very often. There's more of a wide range in technical displays on PCE than on MD or SFC. Or in other words, for every Drac X and Lords', there are more technically simple (not necessarily bad)games than the other guys.

After the CD format took off, most games were made with quantity over intense quality. PCE fans didn't stop buying games that lacked parallax or 'Mode 7' when they had CD music, voice and cinemas in it's place. It sort of became it's own market like the N64 & amecube.

The Genesis however, was in direct competition with the SNES, so even though it lacked the nifty built-in effects that the SNES had, anyone publishing a top tier game for it had to really push the system to make some visually intensive games. There wasn't any reason to do this on PCE(other than pride).

More important than being able to push hardware though, is managing artwork/graphics. Square may have been great at getting nifty effects out of the SFC, but their games looked best because of how they used art. The main difference between Final Fantasy IV and SD3 or Dragon Quest V and VI is how they made the sprites and tiles. The best looking Genesis games use smart use of color to look like they're displaying double the system's limit.

If Square had the incentive to make a few killer PCE games, but wound up putting out a bunch of duds, then it would be a clearer sign that it was a matter of impossibility. But look at what Falcom and Quest did with the single PCE games they developed.

The PC Engine CD would be perfect for a later Square style game. Even if they used all static bg's and only nicely animated effects. As long as the quality artwork was there. Afterall, most of the crazy effects used for spells and such in SFC carts was a way to save on memory.

When Secret Of Mana was brought up as a dream 'lost game', I wasn't hoping for a straight port anyway. I think a PCE specific one would look at least as good overall. But if the SOM/SD games really are great games and not just eye candy, then keeping the gameplay intact should be the only concern with a port turning out, right?

But on a technical level, when someone says, "if it could be done it would've been", I say look at what a lowly homebrewer like Chris Covell has managed on his own in such a short period of time. And not just his PCE demos.
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SignOfZeta

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the lost games!
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2006, 01:29:15 PM »
Yeah, really wish new game systems only came out about half as often as they actually do. The things are left in the dust before they are even made use of. I mean, seriously, who the hell needs an Xbox 360? Do XBox games look like shit and I just can't see it?

Well, yeah, XBox games do look pretty bad most of the time, but that's an art issue, and not a power issue. I don't see why I'd need anything that looks better than Outrun, or Orta as long as I live. I'm still being blown away by Dreamcast games so I must be an old man or something.

Bonknuts

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the lost games!
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2006, 01:39:15 PM »
SignOfZeta:

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~nekocan/group_soft/ht_soft.html

 You'll find the Mednafen PPC binary and the front end launcher - NekoLauncher. Mednafen emulates the SGX among other things.

Keranu

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the lost games!
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2006, 01:47:24 PM »
Great points by Emerald and Tiger.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

GUTS

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the lost games!
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2006, 02:54:19 PM »
No, my grasp on reality makes me a judge.  Secret of mana looks like shit.  SOM3 looks ok but generic.  Those are the cold hard facts.

grahf

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the lost games!
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2006, 03:54:16 PM »
No, those are opinions. I happen to love Secret of Mana. Its not the nices game, but to say it looks like shit is absurd. Video games are artwork, and as such not everyone will like the way a certain one looks.

nodtveidt

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the lost games!
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2006, 04:03:54 PM »
I agree with grahf, especially knowing GUTS' track record. :lol:

Keranu

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the lost games!
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2006, 04:03:58 PM »
Secret of Mana looks great, GUTS is part of a minority when it comes to that opinion.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

SignOfZeta

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the lost games!
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2006, 04:47:14 PM »
Quote from: "GUTS"
No, my grasp on reality makes me a judge.  Secret of mana looks like shit.  SOM3 looks ok but generic.  Those are the cold hard facts.


Not only are those things that cannot be proven, and therefore cannot be considered facts, but rather opinons, they are also very unpopular facts.

I know of a lot of SNES/SFC fans and all of them would say that SD3 is a top 5 game graphics-wise on the SFC. Of course since you think the SFC is piece of gimmicky shit with nothing to offer that means nothing to you. But really that just reenforces my point. You are no expert on the SFC subject. Similarly I couldn't even begin to tell you what the best Virtual Boy game is. I have no clue.

You are right when you say SD3 is slow. The gameplay in general could have been better. Saying its generic-looking is just kind of crazy. Its gorgeous.

BTW, just to clarify all this SD on PCE business, the game I'm saying is unportable to PCE in a decent manor is SD3. SD2 is just nice. Its not even close to as wonderful looking as SD3. Even so, some concessions would need to be made even with SD2 leaving a PCE port always the inferior joke in the same way we look at LoT for Sega CD, only much worse. More like the PS version of KOF98.

And to clarify what someone said about how transparencies and the Saturn "don't mix". I'm not sure what he was getting at, but the Saturn can certainly do transparencies, via hardware. Even ghetto level programers like Winky Soft have used it (Super Robot Wars F). It doesn't extent to polygons, and I'm not sure about sprites, but certainly it can be done with BG layers.

SignOfZeta

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the lost games!
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2006, 05:04:07 PM »
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
SignOfZeta:

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~nekocan/group_soft/ht_soft.html

 You'll find the Mednafen PPC binary and the front end launcher - NekoLauncher. Mednafen emulates the SGX among other things.


Wow. That looks friggn awesome!

But, as I predicted, it doesn't run for me with any of my PCE CDs, PCE ROM images, or GBA ROM images. It just produces an error that says, "Please refer to 'Status Information' for details", and I have no idea how to check whatever that is.

When it comes to these sorts of programs I've learned to just walk away and save the effort that would be wasted trying and failing to ever get them to work. Fink taught me that.

Keranu

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the lost games!
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2006, 05:15:28 PM »
Just to help GUTS out even though I don't necessarily agree with him:

Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Emerald Rocker

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the lost games!
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2006, 05:17:37 PM »
The funny thing is, the crap looks better than the game behind it.
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Keranu

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the lost games!
« Reply #72 on: September 30, 2006, 05:18:13 PM »
But just look at that transparency!
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

guyjin

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the lost games!
« Reply #73 on: September 30, 2006, 08:45:03 PM »
I know this digression from the topic is partly my fault, but:

:o THE TOPIC IS WHAT GAMES YOU WISH WERE PORTED, NOT WETHER SUCH PORTS ARE POSSIBLE. :evil:

thank you.
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esteban

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the lost games!
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2006, 04:20:10 AM »
Quote from: "guyjin"
I know this digression from the topic is partly my fault, but:

:o THE TOPIC IS WHAT GAMES YOU WISH WERE PORTED, NOT WETHER SUCH PORTS ARE POSSIBLE. :evil:

thank you.
hahahahhhahaha. I had been swept away by the recent discussions, so much so that even I forgot what the actual topic was! :)
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