RetroBlox : Another new Play-Everything "Retro" Console

[TheClash603]

I know very little beyond what is already public. And what I do know that isn't public can't be shared. All I can say is that the retroblox is real, and it will offer functionality that a raspberry pi can't, at least not with insano crazy modification. One feature in particular will appeal to the turbo crowd.

24/7 Internet connection required to allow for real time notification something new has been posted in the "(Former Mugs)" thread is my guess.

[elmer]

Looks like there was a flyer at the show with some specs ...

It's a Rockchip RK3288 Quad-Core ARM at 1.7GHz, with 2GB of RAM, running Debian linux (NOT Android, yay!!!).

The board that they showed looks like this ..

http://www.armdesigner.com/MINI3288_SoM/


And here's a rather nice development kit board that you can buy on Amazon that uses the same chip ...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBK1U5G/


Interesting! It might be a nice little machine, especially if they don't lock it down so that folks can run whatever they like on it.

[Gredler]

Looks like there was a flyer at the show with some specs ...

It's a Rockchip RK3288 Quad-Core ARM at 1.7GHz, with 2GB of RAM, running Debian linux (NOT Android, yay!!!).

The board that they showed looks like this ..

http://www.armdesigner.com/MINI3288_SoM/


And here's a rather nice development kit board that you can buy on Amazon that uses the same chip ...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBK1U5G/


Interesting! It might be a nice little machine, especially if they don't lock it down so that folks can run whatever they like on it.

Glad to hear it got a elmer thumbs up. I am duophilally biased to be hopeful this does well, and after a absolutely horrible retro pi sales pitch from a friend and recently added as arcade cabinet at the office, I can only hope this thing at least consistently displays games nicely.

That tretro pi my friend brought over and the one they installed in a Arcade cab at work, both look like dog doo, like worse than RF on a LCD. They have to be setting it up wrong on the back end, because there were no front end available graphical settings. I just needed point sampling fod pixel scaling at a integer scale of 4:3.

I swear, half the games were 16:9 stretch, half 4:3, all were blurry as get out with graphical bugs and weird pixelated side bars, I was actually flabbergasted at how bad his was. The one at work is slightly better but I think it's because they just chose specific decently functional games.

It made me want a retro pi even more so I can make a package of config settings to give to my friend and whoever set up the work cabinet, because it's atrociously bad.

I am adding a fourth hope for this thing.

Crisp pixel perfect display settings for the person who is familiar with playing the games at 4:3 on a CRT out of the box.

Screw filters and smoothing and stretching, if they hide those in an optional menus then whatever, but just make the games (ROM or cart, ISO or disc) look good with little to no setup besides plugging the thing in.

[Phase]

That tretro pi my friend brought over and the one they installed in a Arcade cab at work, both look like dog doo, like worse than RF on a LCD. They have to be setting it up wrong on the back end, because there were no front end available graphical settings. I just needed point sampling fod pixel scaling at a integer scale of 4:3.

I swear, half the games were 16:9 stretch, half 4:3, all were blurry as get out with graphical bugs and weird pixelated side bars, I was actually flabbergasted at how bad his was. The one at work is slightly better but I think it's because they just chose specific decently functional games.

It made me want a retro pi even more so I can make a package of config settings to give to my friend and whoever set up the work cabinet, because it's atrociously bad.

I am adding a fourth hope for this thing.

Crisp pixel perfect display settings for the person who is familiar with playing the games at 4:3 on a CRT out of the box.

Screw filters and smoothing and stretching, if they hide those in an optional menus then whatever, but just make the games (ROM or cart, ISO or disc) look good with little to no setup besides plugging the thing in.

I think the latest RetroPie builds default to crisp pixes but not 100% sure.
I had the same problem, its the resolution when in the emulator.
 go to... Retropie Setup_Confgig/Tools_Config Edit_CBasicEmuOpt_PCE_Render Res then set it to video output res
You have to do this in the other systems too afaik. After that there is also bilinear filtering you can turn off but the main problem is the resolution.
The RetroPies config menus are not very fun 

[SignOfZeta]

It's amazing how long we've been f*cking with this "%90 perfection" shit. 20 years basically. I don't know where people get the energy to spend building yet another not-quite-good-enough-to-actually-play shelf sitting tech demo.

I've basically given up on anything the Wii or OSX won't play and I'll just stick to old systems with games I can afford. It's a lot more fun than staring through a haze or trying to figure out if that audio weirdness is real or your imagination.

Recently both of my smaller CRTs have broken down and while I look for parts I'm running a very low end RF-only 19" for copying LDs and testing shit and whatever and honestly...it looks kinda low on color but it's SO much better than some f*cked up flat panel digital bullshit.

[ccovell]

I share SignOfZeta's frustration.  When emus / game boxes display on modern TVs, they seldom do the no-brainer: integer scaling.  The only good, customizable examples of such I have seen recently have been (by sheer coincidence, I'm sure) FPGA-based complete systems (or NES PPU addons/replacements).

But I'm a CRT holdout who never got rid of all his '80s/'90s game systems, so I'm not a desirable customer, anyway...

[bartre]

It's amazing how long we've been f*cking with this "%90 perfection" shit. 20 years basically. I don't know where people get the energy to spend building yet another not-quite-good-enough-to-actually-play shelf sitting tech demo.

I've basically given up on anything the Wii or OSX won't play and I'll just stick to old systems with games I can afford. It's a lot more fun than staring through a haze or trying to figure out if that audio weirdness is real or your imagination.

Recently both of my smaller CRTs have broken down and while I look for parts I'm running a very low end RF-only 19" for copying LDs and testing shit and whatever and honestly...it looks kinda low on color but it's SO much better than some f*cked up flat panel digital bullshit.

I'll agree to this, I've got my PVM for my old shit, and my PC/modern displays for new stuff.
granted, PS2 era stuff looks pretty damned good on a CRT or LCD style, but it's good to be flexible.

I had a night of Dreamcast with some coworkers at the bar not too long ago hooked up to a modern display via a framemeister and that was a pretty good time.

honestly as long as input delay isn't but 1-2 ms, i'm not too worried about it.

that said, if it CAN be eliminated, I'm all for it.
I'm just not good enough at games to worry about it

[elmer]

Glad to hear it got a elmer thumbs up. I am duophilally biased to be hopeful this does well, and after a absolutely horrible retro pi sales pitch from a friend and recently added as arcade cabinet at the office, I can only hope this thing at least consistently displays games nicely.

That tretro pi my friend brought over and the one they installed in a Arcade cab at work, both look like dog doo, like worse than RF on a LCD.

My reaction is a little more complex than a thumbs-up, I'm afraid.

Their use of the RK3288 should deliver performance on-par with an RPi3 AFAIK. I *think* that the MALI GPU is a bit more powerful that the Broadcom unit in the RPi, but I don't know how much difference that'll make.

The point is that it's just another software-emulator-running-on-an-ARM box, probably running the same libretro cores, that RetroPie does.

The hybrid-emulation stuff that they're hyping still has to be explained ... but if they're just reading the ROM off of cartridge dynamically as they execute the emulator, then that would seemingly result in a lot of latency problems that would slow down the CPU and screw up the emulation.

It was notable that they didn't show anything running off of a cartridge at this weekend's show.


For me, if you're just going to run a software-emulator, then you can put together a much more powerful platform, that will run your emulator much better, if you just buy a cheap refurbished Dell Business computer and turn it into a dedicated emulator box.

http://www.dellrefurbished.com/

Dell Optiplex 7010 3.2GHz Quad-Core i5 with 4GB RAM & Win8Pro (downgradable to Win7, or just run linux).
$180

Dell Optiplex 7010 3.3GHz Dual-Core i3 with 4GB RAM & Win7 & AMD 7470 GPU.
$180

Throw a $30 refurbished AMD 7570 GPU into the 1st one of those, and you've got a *really* nice little dedicated-emulator box.

[Gredler]

The moral I am gleening from this conversation is: Original hardware, or windows based full emulator box? I don't have a problem with that; I've always used windows machines for emulation, and have found every other emulation device to be inferior to a windows machine running typical emulators. The front end is not as fancy feeling, but the gameplay and emulation quality is as good as it's going to get.

I don't understand the retro pi obsession; it seems to suck? Has anyone here gotten a good quality across the board setup for one yet?

4. Turbo/PCE emulation... I wish I could share the bits of inside info is was given, but this is going to be something special. Better than any emulator currently available. Bigusly.

Catastrophy: Exclusive to Retroblox PCE 2018.


Broke the news first here, get your preorders in.

[Necromancer]

So far it's long on buzzwords and short on real capabilities and specifications.  It smacks of the hype machine bullshit of the retrovgs, so I'll save my excitement for when they reveal something tangible.

[elmer]

For tech savvy peeps, yes, there are inexpensive options for building a nice dedicated emu device... even without going the route of power thirsty PC hardware. I think retroblox will appeal more to gamers who aren't necessarily savvy with tech.

Certainly! There are plenty of companies and ideas that have been wildly successful, just by making something easier for folks. That's a good business strategy.

You're right, a PC uses a lot more electricity than an ARM-based system. But it's also a lot more capable. Is the electricity usage really a significant factor for folks?

When it comes to ease-of-installation, I get the concern, but don't forget that you've got things like "Lakka" already out there ...

Lakka is a lightweight Linux distribution that transforms a small
computer into a full blown game console.

Lakka is the official Linux distribution of RetroArch and the libretro
ecosystem.

* Powerful

Built on top of the famous RetroArch emulator, Lakka is able to emulate
a wide variety of systems and has some useful features such as automatic
joypad recognition, rewinding, netplay, and shaders.

* User friendly

Lakka is easy to setup and use. Once installed on your SD card or USB
flash drive, you just have to copy your ROMs on the device, power up the
rig and plug your joypad and enjoy your favorite games.

* Low cost

We try our best to keep the hardware required to run Lakka as cheap as
possible. The software is optimized to run fast even on low end
computers, and we support a lot of USB joypads.

* Open source

Lakka is a community-driven project. Coders, designers and gamers, from
all around the world, are working together to make it the Ultimate
Emulation OS. Come and join us!


There are pre-made builds for the RPi and various other ARM boxes, and for PCs.

The moral I am gleening from this conversation is: Original hardware, or windows based full emulator box?

Everyone gets to make their own choice on that one! 

There are other plug-in-your-old-carts ARM-based systems either available, or coming-soon.

It's up to these guys to show, in detail, why their system is the one to go for, and why folks should believe that they can make it, and make it well enough that it will last as long as all these old consoles that they're telling us are falling-apart.

Their choice of that slot-loading laptop CD drive doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Perhaps these guys *will* be the ones to do it right.

But when they've had this "big reveal" to let people know about the project, and then folks turn around and ask sensible questions as a follow up, about things that the team *should* already have decided by now, and the official answer is just "More will be revealed during our kickstarter next month." ... well ... that doesn't sound good.

[ccovell]

But when they've had this "big reveal" to let people know about the project, and then folks turn around and ask sensible questions as a follow up, about things that the team *should* already have decided by now, and the official answer is just "More will be revealed during our kickstarter next month." ... well ... that doesn't sound good.

Yes, I think giving details early is like a "Rolling Start" in Daytona USA... best to start the Kickstarter with awareness of the product, rather than spin your tires when the KS begins.

[SignOfZeta]

The problem with anything Linux whatsoever is that...basically I consider Linux evangelists liars. They always say it's soooooooooo easy that even a simpleton can do it but typing something out that's 100 characters with zero syntax flaws is already more difficult than anything most users have done with a computer in their lives. Most people don't even know "where stuff saves".  In the opinion of a Linux advocate (and, it could be argued, reality) all users of a lower pay grade than them are simpletons and I think they sometimes forget that when they are proselytizing. A lot of us are way too dumb to do this kind of thing. Many more are too busy running our familiy business or putting our fires or fixing leaks or taking out the garbage in our daily jobs to spend as much time polishing our L337 micro as people in other walks of life do.

I know an "emulator and OS on a self install disc" *can* work and would be amazing, but I would bet money than the project was considered finished when it was only %95 good enough for the average user. I say this from being suckered into a night with Linux dozens of times in the past. Of course they have a GUI and its just like Windows but these f*ckers always...ALWAYS have me opening a shell and phoning a friend trying to bash some shit out. I refuse to touch anything Linux at this point. It's not a technical problem, it's a social one.

Additional software will be needed. Something with have to be compiled or converted. Nothing just...works with Linux unless your friend guides you through every single dumb step. I don't think people who understand what a "finished job" even is would be working with Linux to begin with.

What's that you say? This time it will be different?

f*ck off. You're a liar, just like the last guy. I'd rather spend all weekend trying to get a front loading NES to recognize a $1 game.

[elmer]

I know an "emulator and OS on a self install disc" *can* work and would be amazing, but I would bet money than the project was considered finished when it was only %95 good enough for the average user.
...
What's that you say? This time it will be different?

You're absolutely right. I sometimes (often) forget that a lot of the tech stuff that I find reasonably-easy, is total gobbledegook to most folks ... just like what a lot of other folks can do is totally gobbledegook to me.

There *is* a market for this thing if it's done well, lives up to its promises, and is *really* user-friendly.

Yes, I think giving details early is like a "Rolling Start" in Daytona USA... best to start the Kickstarter with awareness of the product, rather than spin your tires when the KS begins.

Absolutely, I totally agree.

I believe that's what they were trying to do.

Perhaps they believe that they have. Perhaps lots of people out there believe that they have.

So far it's long on buzzwords and short on real capabilities and specifications.  It smacks of the hype machine bullshit of the retrovgs, so I'll save my excitement for when they reveal something tangible.

This seems like the best response.

They're giving out more info, slowly on their forum, and now have a list of machines that will be supported, together with the obligatory "but wait ... there's more!".

The buzzwords and hype are in full-force.

Meanwhile, the AtariAge Hater Brigade has been woken from its crypt, and is smelling fresh blood! 

IMHO, Nullity's friends should really hype less, and show more.

If what they're saying has any deep foundation in truth, then what they've achieved is technically impressive, and pretty revolutionary, and it's not like some competitor is going to come out of nowhere and clone it all in 2 months before the KickStarter.

When folks promise something that seems to be too-good-to-be-true, it usually is.

[elmer]

The point is that it's just another software-emulator-running-on-an-ARM box, probably running the same libretro cores, that RetroPie does.

The hybrid-emulation stuff that they're hyping still has to be explained ... but if they're just reading the ROM off of cartridge dynamically as they execute the emulator, then that would seemingly result in a lot of latency problems that would slow down the CPU and screw up the emulation.

On their forum they're now claiming that they're not just using existing emulators, because those weren't suitable to run with their hybrid-emulation technology.

OK, that's good to hear, and makes perfect sense. They're obviously not completely full-of-sh*it.


But then they say that they've written their own suite of emulators, from scratch.
With a small team.
In approximately a year (I guess, given the timing).
When they have day-jobs.

That's less plausible. Definitely possible, with enough dedication, but less ... plausible.

It definitely puts the onus on them to actually show that this stuff works, and works well.

Their whole product is no longer an evolutionary step that is built on existing and proven hardware and software.

It's a different ballpark now, and it's up to them to show if they really do have something "revolutionary", or whether they're just full-of-sh*t after all.