Author Topic: Akumajō Dracula X: Chi no Rondo (PC-Engine) Vs. Castlevania: Dracula X (SNES)  (Read 836 times)

Arkhan

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bombastic kind of means "pretentious", so you're sort of saying the soundtrack is high and falootin' but meaningless? lol

Super CV IV vs. Bloodlines mostly boils down to if you want something a little newer/different, or a hopped up NES game.  Bloodlines definitely kept the pacing/feel of the NES games more than Super did.   Super sometimes is kind of slow going and odd.  and the whip swinging was goofy. 

I still like both of them and would recommend either to anyone...but, I prefer Simon's Quest over both of them, so don't listen to me.   

As for audio identity and Super NES sound, I think Secret of Mana is the best soundtrack on the system, and it largely doesn't exhibit the "SNES sound identity".   

The percussion quality in Secret of Mana is insane, and the sound design and composition used echo/reverb to their advantage, as opposed to just being some tacked on thing that makes it sound like the speakers fell into a fish tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdIyxSVtPek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3-Gl8UjAg

Square games in general (Chrono Trigger, FF games) kind of didn't fall victim to the quirkities.    A game like 7th Saga or like, Brain Lord from Enix sure did though.   Unless you count Dragon Quest because it's just a friggin orchestral onslaught (but you still get that SNES quality string sampling, and organ noise).

I like a lot of SNES OSTs, but even at the time, some of the stuff it did was less than exciting at times.  I often preferred the Megadrive or PCE game music because it wasn't trying to sound real and failing at it. 

and then TurboCD and SegaCD shit all over all of it.

Everything post GBA sounding the same is more a by product of everyone for years *trying* to get to real instrument sounds, and finally being allowed to.... and then all buying the same friggin sound devices to record audio, lol.

If you listen to something like FF7 though, it's still using MIDI + instrument library.  It's not CD audio.   Some of those instruments are the same ones you hear in FF6, I think.   You even get shit-tier sampled guitars for the boss battle music!

[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Michirin9801

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bombastic kind of means "pretentious", so you're sort of saying the soundtrack is high and falootin' but meaningless? lol
If you say so, but I'd use the word "Pompous" to convey that meaning, not "Bombastic"...
In my head "Bombastic" sounds like a mixture of "Grandiose" and "Explosive", but in a good way...

Super CV IV vs. Bloodlines mostly boils down to if you want something a little newer/different, or a hopped up NES game.  Bloodlines definitely kept the pacing/feel of the NES games more than Super did.   Super sometimes is kind of slow going and odd.  and the whip swinging was goofy. 

I still like both of them and would recommend either to anyone...but, I prefer Simon's Quest over both of them, so don't listen to me.   
They're both really good at what each one tries to do, I just so happen to enjoy playing Super CV4 more, even if it's slower, it feels fresher, but I totally understand if you prefer Bloodlines, it's a spectacular game as well!

As for audio identity and Super NES sound, I think Secret of Mana is the best soundtrack on the system, and it largely doesn't exhibit the "SNES sound identity".   

The percussion quality in Secret of Mana is insane, and the sound design and composition used echo/reverb to their advantage, as opposed to just being some tacked on thing that makes it sound like the speakers fell into a fish tank.
Secret of Mana is one of those games that I've always wanted to play, but just never got around to it... And well, listening to the soundtrack for the first time now, this doesn't really do the soundchip justice in my book >w>
It's not bad, but seriously, the SNES can sound SO much better than this, including in games by square themselves, like the very ones you've mentioned, Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger...

Unless you count Dragon Quest because it's just a friggin orchestral onslaught (but you still get that SNES quality string sampling, and organ noise).
That's EXACTLY the sound that I like! I think Dragon Quest is the best-sounding RPG series on the SNES, it's literally an orchestra being played on a 64k sampler, so it's got those signature SNES strings and organs, so it doesn't 'really' sound like an orchestra, it sounds like, for lack of better words, a Super Nintendo game!

Everything post GBA sounding the same is more a by product of everyone for years *trying* to get to real instrument sounds, and finally being allowed to.... and then all buying the same friggin sound devices to record audio, lol.

If you listen to something like FF7 though, it's still using MIDI + instrument library.  It's not CD audio.   Some of those instruments are the same ones you hear in FF6, I think.   You even get shit-tier sampled guitars for the boss battle music!


I haven't really played much of any of the PS1 Final Fantasy games, I think they look like s*** with their yucky polygons and blurry pre-rendered backgrounds and FMV that totally don't go well together, and let's just say that "A good story" isn't exactly what I look for in my games, but I'm willing to give them a fair shot when I have the time and patience (which won't happen in a very long time for various reasons)
But I do know that the PS1 soundchip is pretty much a SNES soundchip with 3 times the channels and maybe more RAM, and well, if you say that FF7 sounds like a SNES game then that's a plus in my book! That said though one of the reasons why I often prefer SNES music is BECAUSE it has less channels and less RAM! It's the limitations that give it its charm!

"Well, if you like it because it has less channels then why don't you like the Amiga? It has 4 channels!"
Remember when I said the SNES was the perfect mid-term? Well yeah... I like it because it's not TOO limited that it restricts what you can do with it, but it's not SO advanced that you can just do anything with it, it's all a matter of finding the perfect balance!
To me the ideal amount of sound channels is anything between 6 and 10, 6 is the bare-minimum and anything more than 10 I won't even bother using because I don't need it, but 8 is the exact middle of that! I can make a 6 channel song and have 2 free channels to play sound effects without cutting off the music! It's PERFECT! And well, the built-in reverb means that I don't have to use an extra channel to do, well, reverb, so I can fit in more detail in the composition without eating up more channels!

"Well if you like SNES music so much, then why do you only do PC engine music?"
Because Deflemask is WAY better than OpenMPT, and the PCE is my very close 2nd place (tied with the GBA, I can't pick between the two)

Arkhan

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I don't think between the hourish or so after my post and the time you spent writing your own reply, you really had proper time to absorb the Secret of Mana soundtrack in it's entirety. It sounds like you just skimmed through it out of context, and nitpicked based off of personal taste formed around liking the loss of fidelity other games exhibit. 

It's a very atmospheric setup, and makes better (read: intelligent) use of echo/reverb compared to a lot of games.    Too many games just turned it on because it "did something".   Like people who don't really understand how to use chorus/reverb effects with their guitar setups, and just crank knobs and have it sound like total dick.

The bass (especially the slap/synth style) and percussion (the double bass especially) sounds pretty top notch.   The percussion is pretty killer. 

SOM predated the other great non Uematsu stuff from Square.   Bahamut Lagoon, CTrigger, and SOM2 all came later.    Of the SNES era, I think Square and Enix basically owned the sound award (Check out Illusion of Gaia).   Nintendo's games themselves weren't even as good sounding sometimes. 

FF6's use of harpsichord/harp/horn noises basically rolled right over into PS1land, where they were then able to improve the string and percussion. 

It seems you have a strange subjective liking of SFC based around the loss of fidelity.   Fine by me, as long as you recognize it as such.  Like all the C64 fans that are completely aware that some of the visuals in the C64 look worse than their Amiga counterparts, despite preferring them more.

I like the way Amiga often sounded as a result of this loss of fidelity.  It gives it a strange charm.  But, if OTHER Amiga games *didn't* have this issue, I tended to go "oh that sounds better".

This ones pretty good.   It's also awful with headphones because Paula is a moron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9waP16k72hE     


I also enjoy these made up questions you've asked and answered yourself assuming I might ask them.  I wasn't going to, lol.

Quote from: Michirin9801
I haven't really played much of any of the PS1 Final Fantasy games, I think they look like s*** with their yucky polygons and blurry pre-rendered backgrounds and FMV that totally don't go well together, and let's just say that "A good story" isn't exactly what I look for in my games


This made me LOL.    The PS1 era stuff may look a little rough now, but some of that stuff was pretty ground breaking.  The FF games were pretty brilliant with their use of pre-rendered BGs.  It looks better on a TV with proper scanlining and scaling.   I will fully admit some of that stuff looks really dumb on an emulator.  Even the FF8 for PC looked funky to me.    Play it on a CRT with composite, or RGB, and you will change your view I bet.

Seriously, the RPGs that used 3D environments back then lacked a lot of visual character by comparison.    I am not sure what your FMV statement is either.  The FMVs in something like FF8 were (and still) are pretty excellent, and fitting for the game. 

Parasite Eve is another one that kicked ass.

Anyawy, you're right about the PS1. 

PS1's sound is able to be done at a higher rate, with more channels, with more RAM as well.  Plus, MIDI support.   That's why the soundtracks in some games were often able to sometimes be mistaken as CD audio.   It is basically a cracked out Super NES sound chip.

People who weren't too clued into how guitars actually sound thought that FF7 was a CD soundtrack.


as a complete aside,


f*ckkkkk yeah.   best sampled OST ever.   

how do you feel about the SFC version?  I hate it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PbPMrNz3dE

it lost ALL of the atmosphere that it was supposed to be conveying.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Michirin9801

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I don't think between the hourish or so after my post and the time you spent writing your own reply, you really had proper time to absorb the Secret of Mana soundtrack in it's entirety. It sounds like you just skimmed through it out of context, and nitpicked based off of personal taste formed around liking the loss of fidelity other games exhibit. 

It's a very atmospheric setup, and makes better (read: intelligent) use of echo/reverb compared to a lot of games.    Too many games just turned it on because it "did something".   Like people who don't really understand how to use chorus/reverb effects with their guitar setups, and just crank knobs and have it sound like total dick.

The bass (especially the slap/synth style) and percussion (the double bass especially) sounds pretty top notch.   The percussion is pretty killer. 

SOM predated the other great non Uematsu stuff from Square.   Bahamut Lagoon, CTrigger, and SOM2 all came later.    Of the SNES era, I think Square and Enix basically owned the sound award (Check out Illusion of Gaia).   Nintendo's games themselves weren't even as good sounding sometimes. 

Here's the thing, I probably WOULD like it better in-game with proper context, but yeah, you're right, I didn't really take my time to listen to it and appreciate what it does, I just listened to what you posted here and moved on... But seriously, out of context, I've heard much better on the system...

And speaking of Illusion of Gaia, all Quintet games for the SNES sound amazing! (I haven't played Terranigma though so I can't say, but I sure want to play it, but I only want to play it once I beat Illusion of Gaia)
But seriously, Actraiser... Not only is that my favourite Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack bar-none, but that's one of the quintessential SNES soundtracks, that's the kind of sound I like to hear on the system!

And I totally get your argument on the reverb, you're absolutely right, but you see, even Capcom themselves got better at it overtime, Final Fight 3 is in my opinion their best work on the system (which to me means it's their best work ever ;3) and in that game they don't abuse the reverb nearly as much as in their previous works...

It seems you have a strange subjective liking of SFC based around the loss of fidelity.   Fine by me, as long as you recognize it as such.  Like all the C64 fans that are completely aware that some of the visuals in the C64 look worse than their Amiga counterparts, despite preferring them more.

I like the way Amiga often sounded as a result of this loss of fidelity.  It gives it a strange charm.  But, if OTHER Amiga games *didn't* have this issue, I tended to go "oh that sounds better".

This ones pretty good.   It's also awful with headphones because Paula is a moron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9waP16k72hE     

You hit the nail in the head... I know that CD audio is """""Better""""" because it's higher fidelity and you can use it to make "real" music, but here's the thing, I don't care about "real" music, I like Video Game music, and while the SNES sounds a lot more advanced than its contemporaries, it still doesn't sound like "real" music, it sounds like Video Game music, but it STILL sounds more advanced than its contemporaries, so I like it more!

And yeah that sounds nice, too bad I only have headphones so the hard-panning does take away from my enjoyment a little...

Quote from: Michirin9801
I haven't really played much of any of the PS1 Final Fantasy games, I think they look like s*** with their yucky polygons and blurry pre-rendered backgrounds and FMV that totally don't go well together, and let's just say that "A good story" isn't exactly what I look for in my games


This made me LOL.    The PS1 era stuff may look a little rough now, but some of that stuff was pretty ground breaking.  The FF games were pretty brilliant with their use of pre-rendered BGs.  It looks better on a TV with proper scanlining and scaling.   I will fully admit some of that stuff looks really dumb on an emulator.  Even the FF8 for PC looked funky to me.    Play it on a CRT with composite, or RGB, and you will change your view I bet.

Seriously, the RPGs that used 3D environments back then lacked a lot of visual character by comparison.    I am not sure what your FMV statement is either.  The FMVs in something like FF8 were (and still) are pretty excellent, and fitting for the game. 

Parasite Eve is another one that kicked ass.

I get that that stuff was mind-blowing at the time, but I'm a sucker for good 2D grafx and pixel art, and 3D doesn't appeal to me nearly as much...
Also, one of the "various reasons" why I won't try the PS1 FF games in a really long time is because I 'want' to play them on my CRT TV on a PS1 (or PS2), but my CRT is broken right now and I have to go and get it fixed, and let's just say I'm not exactly in a hurry to get a PS1 or a PS2, there isn't much on either system that I REALLY want to play...

as a complete aside,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JZA_IAaN-Q

f*ckkkkk yeah.   best sampled OST ever.   

how do you feel about the SFC version?  I hate it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PbPMrNz3dE

it lost ALL of the atmosphere that it was supposed to be conveying.


Now that's a soundtrack I really don't care much for >w>
If we're talking about European soundtracks, my favourites on the SNES are Super Turrican and Top Gear 1 and 2, now THOSE are good soundtracks!
(And speaking of European soundtracks, check out Iridion II on Game Boy Advance, it's one of the stand-out soundtracks on the system! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHvIWwbbugE&list=PLv0o9-RcygIBLmEtkJoM0xUs8M6XNbhAt&index=7)

Shadow of the beast is nice but... Not my style...
I'll give you that the Amiga soundtrack is more 'atmospheric' but I legit prefer the instrumentation on the SNES...
The only versions of the game I've played though were the TurboGrafx CD and the Mega Drive versions, and well, the CD soundtrack is nice, I actually like it better than all the others, but you know, exceptions exist, I can like a CD soundtrack better than its chiptune counterpart sometimes, case in point: the Dynastic Hero, I MUCH prefer its soundtrack to Wonder Boy in Monster World, the latter hurts my ears, and the former is soothing and nice~
But you see, all of the CD soundtracks I like better than their chiptune counterparts are on the PC engine CD, and it's not just because they're on PC engine and I'm a big fangirl, but because PCE CD soundtracks don't really sound like everything else out there, probably because they were made so much earlier...

And even then, I sometimes still prefer chiptunes over the CD audio of the PCE CD, like in the case of Dracula X and Asuka 120%, heck, I'd love to re-do the new songs from Maxima Burning Fest in the X68000 style and then replace the CD soundtrack with the X68000 one... Someday I will!

Arkhan

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The CD audio for SotB on PCE is basically the best version of the soundtrack.   It's also the best playing version out of all of them, from a completely objective standpoint.   At one point, I literally sat and played through every version of the game available to see what they all operated like.   

All of the UpToJump ones automatically lose a lot of playability, Amiga included.   There's also a weird delay in some versions (Amiga included) that makes attacking more effort than it should be.

The TurboCD and JP Megadrive releases provide the best experiences.   The USA Genesis release was all screwed up, like when they put Turrican on TG-16.

A good Euro soundtrack for SNES to me was Wolfchild, but I thought the Megadrive version was the best of all of them. 

That game in general was pretty good.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Michirin9801

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The CD audio for SotB on PCE is basically the best version of the soundtrack.   It's also the best playing version out of all of them, from a completely objective standpoint.   At one point, I literally sat and played through every version of the game available to see what they all operated like.   

All of the UpToJump ones automatically lose a lot of playability, Amiga included.   There's also a weird delay in some versions (Amiga included) that makes attacking more effort than it should be.

The TurboCD and JP Megadrive releases provide the best experiences.   The USA Genesis release was all screwed up, like when they put Turrican on TG-16.
I'm glad I've picked the best versions I guess...

Arkhan

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Yeah... where some Turbo CD games just used like early 90s wank digital music that sounds like it belongs in an exercise video tape, SOTB used a thoughtful remastering and recomposition of all of the songs.


Note though, it also appears in the FM Towns version, and while that version looks a little better in the parallax department, it has slightly stiffer feeling controls, and that explosion puff they added to the enemies looks so tacky.

It somehow looks better when the enemies just boing off the screen. 

SotB in general isn't even a fantastic action game.    The whole thing is somehow excellent due to the overall atmosphere of the game.   The gameplay itself is pretty mediocre.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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fragmare

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Haha, SNES DracXX vs. Genesis Bloodlines is like the battle of the half-assed but still really good Castlevania games.  I don't know if I have a preference there.  I suppose I'd have to say Bloodlines just based on the fact it's all new content, compared to DracXX which is mostly recycled art/ideas.

Arkhan

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Haha, SNES DracXX vs. Genesis Bloodlines is like the battle of the half-assed but still really good Castlevania games.  I don't know if I have a preference there.  I suppose I'd have to say Bloodlines just based on the fact it's all new content, compared to DracXX which is mostly recycled art/ideas.

Bloodlines also provides interesting characters to play as, and some more thoughtful level design. 

and that sweet reflecty water effect.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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gex

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But playing through Dracula X first and then going through Akumajō Dracula X: Chi no Rondo expecting it to be the same, just more of a challenge, I was bummed out.  Love both games though.

Hey just curious. I recently played through rondo again for a 100% run, and i'm just curious how many deaths you had. I certainly don't think it's a ball breaking game, but i also don't think it's easy either. To me, compared to other action platformers released at this time i would say it's a tad harder than the average?? I found myself dying at least twice from the harder bosses figuring out their patterns. But I would definitely say it's subpar difficulty stacked up to the other games in the Castlevania series.

Sera was the only maiden i had problems finding, even though i knew where she was. Whenever i tried to break the blocks to get to her on the next screen, they wouldn't break. So i assumed i had to do something later in the level. After much back & forth i eventually found you have to break the top rock first, then work your way down lol. Something i totally forgot since my last play through

Magister

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Akumajō Dracula X: Chi no Rondo (PC-Engine) Vs. Castlevania: Dracula X (SNES)
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2017, 12:16:56 PM »
Hey just curious. I recently played through rondo again for a 100% run, and i'm just curious how many deaths you had. I certainly don't think it's a ball breaking game, but i also don't think it's easy either. To me, compared to other action platformers released at this time i would say it's a tad harder than the average?? I found myself dying at least twice from the harder bosses figuring out their patterns. But I would definitely say it's subpar difficulty stacked up to the other games in the Castlevania series.

Sera was the only maiden i had problems finding, even though i knew where she was. Whenever i tried to break the blocks to get to her on the next screen, they wouldn't break. So i assumed i had to do something later in the level. After much back & forth i eventually found you have to break the top rock first, then work your way down lol. Something i totally forgot since my last play through

I only died a handful of times.  First time I died was fighting the dragon on the bridge.  Just trying to get a feel for the game and getting down the right spot to be in when it does its wrapping itself around the bridge attack.  First fight with Shaft was interesting.  Having to fight 4 mini-bosses before fighting him gave me a little bit of trouble.  Especially the Mummy.  But for the most, I either took out a boss on the first or second try.  Some were just down right too easy with the right Weapon Crash.  As for levels, Ghost Ship and Clock Tower were the biggest pains.  Clock Tower for the simple fact of the collapsing bridge with the damn bats coming at you from both ways.  Wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't take two hits from the whip to kill.

Sera was the last one I found as well.  The rest were pretty easy to find.  But the stairway for Sera blended into the background so well, I over looked it the first time I checked out that area.

I enjoyed the game.  I was just bummed at how easy Drac was.  I would say the Rondo battle is second easiest to fighting Drac in Simon's Quest
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Winniez

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I much prefer the PC-Engine version but I think the SNES/SFC version is a good game in its own right. Interestingly the Super Famicom game in a good condition CIB is almost as pricey as the PC-Engine version. For me neither game is worth it at their current prices although I would really love to own the PC-Engine Rondo some day.

Magister

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What I want to know is why in all the other Castlevania games the pocket watch is useful in some parts of the game, but in Rondo the watch is pretty much useless?  It doesn't stop everything like it does in the other games, only slows the enemy down.  And the heart consumption for each use is a joke and not even worth it.
This Space For Rent.

Otaking

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Awesome to see these versus threads back again, I did a load years back.
Why not add a poll so forum members can vote.

edit
here's some of the old ones, I never locked the voting so you can still vote.

Dracula X (PC Engine) Vs Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15745.0

Super Star Soldier Vs Final Soldier
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15568.0

Gate of Thunder Vs Winds/Lords of Thunder
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15639.0

Ys Book I & II (TGCD) Vs Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15766.0

PC Engine CD/TurboGrafx CD Vs Mega-CD/Sega CD
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=21193.0


Fragmare did a load too


Legendary Axe vs. Legendary Axe II
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11121

Alien Crush vs. Devil's Crush
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11460

Bloody Wolf vs. M.E.R.C.S.
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15955

Blazing Lazers/Gunhed vs. Space Megaforce/Super Aleste
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15934

Soldier Blade vs. Axelay
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15966

3-way battle! Spriggan vs. M.U.S.H.A. vs. Robo Aleste
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15924

Macross 2036 (PCE CD) vs. Macross Scramble Valkyrie (SNES)
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16032

and

China Warrior vs. Getting kicked in the crotch
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15886
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 03:36:43 AM by Otaking »

Magister

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Awesome to see these versus threads back again, I did a load years back.
Why not add a poll so forum members can vote.

edit
here's some of the old ones

Dracula X (PC Engine) Vs Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15745.0


Yea, the poll thing is a good idea.  Never thought about doing that.  I just like to read people's opinions about the games more than seeing the popular vote.
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