Hypothetical PCE port :: Flame Zapper Kotsujin

[elmer]

Unless you're capable of doing that whole "draw bullets to the BG layer" thing, in that case it might just work...

I believe that you're thinking of each bullet as a different sprite ... and IMHO, that's just not how you'd make the game work on a sprite-and-tile-background console like the SGX.

Instead, for those bullet-heavy parts, which occur mostly on specific enemies, you create "lanes" of non-overlapping sprites on the screen, and you either draw the bullets into those sprite-lanes dynamically, just like you'd draw them into background tiles, or you create pre-drawn composite sprites, since the bullet-patterns are known and not random.

That just needs a reasonably-fast CPU, and some good main-RAM-to-VRAM upload bandwidth.

The SGX actually has a fast-enough CPU, with the right TSB & TRB instructions, that you might actually be able to pull it off with enough custom-coding of the software-drawing routines.

You could definitely pull it off if you pre-draw stuff, it'll just cost you memory.

The GBA has a fast CPU, but I've never actually looked to see if it has the same awful VRAM bandwidth limits as the SNES.

The X68000 has a potential *chance* with all of those bitmapped background layers, but I no real idea of the programming limitations on that system.

[Michirin9801]

I believe that you're thinking of each bullet as a different sprite ... and IMHO, that's just not how you'd make the game work on a sprite-and-tile-background console like the SGX.

I was...

Instead, for those bullet-heavy parts, which occur mostly on specific enemies, you create "lanes" of non-overlapping sprites on the screen, and you either draw the bullets into those sprite-lanes dynamically, just like you'd draw them into background tiles, or you create pre-drawn composite sprites, since the bullet-patterns are known and not random.

Do you know any examples where that's being done?

The SGX actually has a fast-enough CPU, with the right TSB & TRB instructions, that you might actually be able to pull it off with enough custom-coding of the software-drawing routines.

You could definitely pull it off if you pre-draw stuff, it'll just cost you memory.

You mean extra RAM or extra ROM? Would this require a Super System Card and a CD or could it be done on a HuCard?

[elmer]

Do you know any examples where that's being done?

I can't remember where I heard about the technique ... but I'm sure that there was beer involved. 

At the very-least, animating the initial introductions of any bullet-spray should be a pretty-obvious technique to you, and you can see lots of paired-bullets throughout the game.

See ...

You mean extra RAM or extra ROM?

Either or both, depending upon how much drawing-into-sprites you can get away with, and how many pre-animated frames you have, and whether they're stored compressed (and decompressed just before that pattern is fired).

Basically, it would be a massive juggling-act.

Would this require a Super System Card and a CD or could it be done on a HuCard?

Well, on the PC98, as-far-as-I-can-see, the game is over 4MB compressed, and requires 1MB of extended memory.

AFAIK, nobody is even making 1MB HuCards yet, let alone 4MB!

I suspect that anyone crazy-enough to attempt to do the project, would be advised to target a TED v2.

That would give you plenty of memory for predrawn animations, you could load each level from the SD card, and it would be one heck of a lot cheaper and more "universal" than requiring a SuperCDROM drive (plus maybe an Arcade Card).

[Michirin9801]

Would this require a Super System Card and a CD or could it be done on a HuCard?

Well, on the PC98, as-far-as-I-can-see, the game is over 4MB compressed, and requires 1MB of extended memory.

AFAIK, nobody is even making 1MB HuCards yet, let alone 4MB!

I suspect that anyone crazy-enough to attempt to do the project, would be advised to target a TED v2.

That would give you plenty of memory for predrawn animations, you could load each level from the SD card, and it would be one heck of a lot cheaper and more "universal" than requiring a SuperCDROM drive (plus maybe an Arcade Card).

I was thinking we could shave off some of that memory because the graphics would take up half the memory they do on the PC-98 given that they'd be half the resolution, but I don't know if or how much the extra colours would add...
But then I remembered that I wanted to do 2 versions of the soundtrack, just like the original game, one of which would involve percussion samples which would play on the CD ADPCM channel so that means they'd be higher quality than regular-old PCE samples and would take up a lot more memory...

Yeah TED v2 FTW >w>

[kazekirifx]

I love FZK! Can't imagine it running very well on PCE, though. Even on PC-98, you need to have a PC-98 with a pretty fast CPU in it to run it well.

I mean, have you ever seen a bullet hell on the X68000? I know I haven't, but to be fair, I haven't played nearly enough X68000 games to know...

Does Cho Ren Sha 68k not count as a bullet hell? I'd say it's pretty close at least. The game actually reminds me a bit of FZK.

https://youtu.be/NbveM5BnVHg?t=47m14s

[elmer]

I mean, have you ever seen a bullet hell on the X68000? I know I haven't, but to be fair, I haven't played nearly enough X68000 games to know...

Does Cho Ren Sha 68k not count as a bullet hell? I'd say it's pretty close at least. The game actually reminds me a bit of FZK.

Haha ... yep, that looks like bullet-hell to me! 

[fragmare]

It's coming right after Xymati and PC Gunjin, lol.

I just draw the graphics and design the levels, dude.  I can't help it if people flake out on the coding.  You're welcome to code 'em, if you want. 

[fragmare]

Me waiting for somebody to code Xymati lol

[Michirin9801]

Does Cho Ren Sha 68k not count as a bullet hell? I'd say it's pretty close at least. The game actually reminds me a bit of FZK.

https://youtu.be/NbveM5BnVHg?t=47m14s

Close enough...

Me waiting for somebody to code Xymati lol

That's pretty sad actually >w>

[elmer]

Me waiting for somebody to code Xymati lol

That's pretty sad actually >w>

Yep, extremely sad after all of these years! 

There just aren't that many programmer-types around here, and even when there are people with free-time, they've actually got to have the passion (and skill) to want to create the same type of game.

[fragmare]

Me waiting for somebody to code Xymati lol

That's pretty sad actually >w>

Yep, extremely sad after all of these years! 

There just aren't that many programmer-types around here, and even when there are people with free-time, they've actually got to have the passion (and skill) to want to create the same type of game.

Lol you'd think a Nexr clone and a run-n-gun game would garner some genuine interest at some point, but whatever.  If there's one thing I've learned here, it's that people will blow all kinds of smoke up your ass, but at the end of the day you can't depend on people for shit.  And if you want something done, you're probably better off just doing it all yourself... ZING 

[Arkhan]

lol yeah, the problem is those games are a large undertaking and were made *professionally* by a team.

Expecting like one dude to do it in free time is a great way for it to never get done.

and even if we all coordinated, it'd still take forever because time zones and varied free time.

You'd need a bunch of people with similar schedules and close living proximity, I think.

That's why I don't go for anything crazy.   

[fragmare]

Expecting like one dude to do it in free time is a great way for it to never get done.

Depends entirely upon the determination of said individual.

[elmer]

Expecting like one dude to do it in free time is a great way for it to never get done.

Depends entirely upon the determination of said individual.

I'm sorry Fragmare, I absolutely love the music that you've been doing, and the artwork that you've created ... but that's just a bit out-of-line.

I don't share Arkhan's perspectives on quite a few things, and we have, and almost-certainly will continue in the future, to butt-heads on various subjects.

But he's 100% correct on this one.

You can't force your passion for own project down someone else's throat.

Programming a game on these old-machines (PCE/MSX/Genesis/whatever) is a *LOT* of work.

Asking someone to do that after a hard-day's-effort-at-their-job, week-after-week, long-after all the fun-and-challenging aspects have been conquered, and the 50%+ of hum-drum coding starts, followed by the 30%+ of terminally-dull get-it-finished coding begins ...

... then determination isn't enough. It's going to take either "passion", or a large paycheck.

And nobody here is offering that "paycheck".

Arkhan has done what a lot, a huge lot, of people haven't ... he's finished things, and he's pushed the whole "scene" forward.

That's incredibly difficult, and one heck of an accomplishment.

I'm going to have to side wtih him on this one.

[fragmare]

Expecting like one dude to do it in free time is a great way for it to never get done.

Depends entirely upon the determination of said individual.

I'm sorry Fragmare, I absolutely love the music that you've been doing, and the artwork that you've created ... but that's just a bit out-of-line.

I don't share Arkhan's perspectives on quite a few things, and we have, and almost-certainly will continue in the future, to butt-heads on various subjects.

But he's 100% correct on this one.

You can't force your passion for own project down someone else's throat.

Programming a game on these old-machines (PCE/MSX/Genesis/whatever) is a *LOT* of work.

Asking someone to do that after a hard-day's-effort-at-their-job, week-after-week, long-after all the fun-and-challenging aspects have been conquered, and the 50%+ of hum-drum coding starts, followed by the 30%+ of terminally-dull get-it-finished coding begins ...

... then determination isn't enough. It's going to take either "passion", or a large paycheck.

And nobody here is offering that "paycheck".

Arkhan has done what a lot, a huge lot, of people haven't ... he's finished things, and he's pushed the whole "scene" forward.

That's incredibly difficult, and one heck of an accomplishment.

I'm going to have to side wtih him on this one.

Lol what, exactly, is out of line?  Saying if you want something done around here, you might as well do it all yourself?  That's no exaggeration.  f*ck, I think you could probably dig up a quote of Arkhan's on this forum that's almost verbatim to that, said to me in regards to Xymati, no less.  This "scene" is generally full of doe-eyed, eagerly anticipating ingenues and overly gung-ho guys that start 9239847 projects simultaneously, but finish 0.  Not saying there aren't exceptions;  Meteor Blaster DX, Mysterious Song, Arkhan's Retrocade pack, Ys IV translation, etc.... but the general rule around here is: SHIT DOESN'T GET FINISHED.  Some kind of community GitHub like system COULD work, if there's a person directing the show and deciding what to keep/trash.  But that brings out the whiners when they're goofball, left-field idea doesn't get included.

Or was it saying it depends on the determination of the individual working on the project?  I'm telling you, in all seriousness, that if I had started learning HuC6280 ASM 10+ years ago when ideas for Xymati started getting tossed around, I'd probably have a playable version of it by now, drawn, designed and coded by yours truly.  It's not about slaving at your day job and then coming home and slaving on some other project until you're bleary eyed... it's about chipping away at it when you can, over years, and until you've created something masterful... think of a bonsai tree or a car restoration.  Hell, man, I'm a single dad with two kids i raise BY MYSELF, have a day job and occasional night job and i still find the time for PCE dev.  What I am saying is, one person, given enough determination, patience and time, CAN make it happen... even if it takes years.  If you disagree, then I'm sorry, you don't really understand the drive one person can have when they want something bad enough.

I'm honestly considering saying f*ck making any more chiptunes or pixel art after the Super Raiden 25th Anniversary release and just concentrating on learning more HuC6280 ASM... that's really about the only sure-fire way Xymati would ever get finished, that I see.  Might take another decade, but f*ck it... what's another few years?

I mean, i know you had kind of openly offered to maybe code Xymati when you have the time.  And believe me, you're more than welcome to.  Knock yourself out, dude.  But, quite frankly, I've heard it all before and I don't really know you all that well yet, so I just kind of file it under the "Yea ok, we'll see..." folder.    No offense.