Author Topic: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?  (Read 1044 times)

Arkhan

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2017, 06:20:53 AM »
It could do a version of Alpha 2 that was as good as Mk on GG. I'll buy that, but that would have been severely below expectations at the time. :)

Yeah, but I think PC-FX would have had the best SF dating sim. 

Imagine the Ken/Ryu sub arc.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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turboswimbz

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2017, 01:33:12 PM »
It could do a version of Alpha 2 that was as good as Mk on GG. I'll buy that, but that would have been severely below expectations at the time. :)

Yeah, but I think PC-FX would have had the best SF dating sim. 

Imagine the Ken/Ryu sub arc.

THIS. THIS made me laugh. 
NW: Hey, I made it on this psycho's Enemies' List, how about that ?? ;)

BT: Look at how the fake SFII' carts instantly sold out and were immediately listed on eBay before the flippers even took possession. Look at Nintendo's overpriced bricks. Look at the typical forum discussions elsewhere.

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saturndual32

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2017, 03:57:00 PM »
It could do a version of Alpha 2 that was as good as Mk on GG. I'll buy that, but that would have been severely below expectations at the time. :)

Yeah, but I think PC-FX would have had the best SF dating sim. 

Imagine the Ken/Ryu sub arc.

THIS. THIS made me laugh. 

LOL, that one was worth the thread, hehe.

And the technical post before that one was great too. So, way to go Arkhan.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 03:58:44 PM by saturndual32 »

Michirin9801

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2017, 07:28:35 AM »
You can't actually display 32 32px wide sprites on one scanline on the SGX/PCFX, though.   32 per scanline is the best case scenario, using 16px wide sprites.

The limit is 512px per scanline, so that would be 32 16px wide sprites.   If you're using wider ones, you get to enjoy clipping when you start using a lot of them on a scanline.

PCE does this but with 16 instead of 32 sprites.  You get 256 pixels per scanline.   That's 16x16.
Huh, that's something I never knew, I thought the PCE was capable of displaying 16 32px wide sprites on the same scanline...

Do you happen to know if other systems of the time also had this limitation? Like say, the Game Boy or the Mega Drive?

elmer

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2017, 10:06:27 AM »
Huh, that's something I never knew, I thought the PCE was capable of displaying 16 32px wide sprites on the same scanline...

Do you happen to know if other systems of the time also had this limitation? Like say, the Game Boy or the Mega Drive?

Nope, a 32-wide wide sprite counts as 2x16 pixel sprites on the PCE.

It's roughly the same "one screen width" pixels-per line graphics-processing limit on all of the 4th-generation machines.; i.e. the SNES loads 34 8x8 sprites (270 pixels), and the MegaDrive loads up to 20 16-wide sprites (320 pixels).

That's why your wish for Flame Zapper Kotsujin just isn't practically-achievable. It's also why the SuperGrafx is such a powerhouse for it's time.

It's not the dual backgrounds, since the other machines had those.

It's because it could display 32 sprites (512 pixels) per-line when no other 4th-gen home game-console could.

Note: I'm deliberately leaving out both the Neo Geo since it was expensive Arcade hardware, and also the X68000 since it was an expensive Home Computer ... and I'm biased!!!  :wink:

Arkhan

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2017, 10:21:25 AM »
Some people think X68000 is a game console.

Same with MSX.

I hate those people.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Michirin9801

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2017, 12:07:20 PM »
Nope, a 32-wide wide sprite counts as 2x16 pixel sprites on the PCE.

It's roughly the same "one screen width" pixels-per line graphics-processing limit on all of the 4th-generation machines.; i.e. the SNES loads 34 8x8 sprites (270 pixels), and the MegaDrive loads up to 20 16-wide sprites (320 pixels).

That's why your wish for Flame Zapper Kotsujin just isn't practically-achievable. It's also why the SuperGrafx is such a powerhouse for it's time.

It's not the dual backgrounds, since the other machines had those.

It's because it could display 32 sprites (512 pixels) per-line when no other 4th-gen home game-console could.

Note: I'm deliberately leaving out both the Neo Geo since it was expensive Arcade hardware, and also the X68000 since it was an expensive Home Computer ... and I'm biased!!!  :wink:

Thanks for explaining ^^
But what about the Game Boy/Colour and the Master System? I've read that their sprites can be either 8 or 16 pixels wide, and that the GB can display up to 10 sprites on the same scanline without flickering, whereas the SMS can do 8, if the sprites can be a full 16 pixels wide then that means the GB could cover the entire width of the screen with sprites, just like the 4th gen consoles, and the SMS could do twice the horizontal real estate that the NES could, but if they can only display 8 pixels wide sprites when using the maximum allowed amount on the same scanline, then I'm gonna have to re-think a few things and hold back on some spriting ideas...

elmer

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2017, 02:13:07 PM »
But what about the Game Boy/Colour and the Master System? I've read that their sprites can be either 8 or 16 pixels wide, and that the GB can display up to 10 sprites on the same scanline without flickering, whereas the SMS can do 8, if the sprites can be a full 16 pixels wide then that means the GB could cover the entire width of the screen with sprites, just like the 4th gen consoles, and the SMS could do twice the horizontal real estate that the NES could, but if they can only display 8 pixels wide sprites when using the maximum allowed amount on the same scanline, then I'm gonna have to re-think a few things and hold back on some spriting ideas...

I'm afraid that you're going to have to "hold back on some spriting ideas"!  :wink:

Those are 8-bit machines with 8-bit video hardware, so basically half the VRAM bandwidth for display (or less) ... and thus half the pixel data (or less).

The GB has 8x8 or 8x16 sprites, but that's 16 high, not wide. 10 sprites-per-line = 80 pixels per line for sprites, i.e. 1/2 a screen.

I've never developed for the SMS or the NES, but a few minutes googling says that they both support 8x8 and 8x16 sprites, with 8 sprites-per-line, i.e. 64 pixels-per-line, i.e. 1/4 screen (they're both older hardware designs than the GB).

Michirin9801

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2017, 04:15:28 PM »
I'm afraid that you're going to have to "hold back on some spriting ideas"!  :wink:

Those are 8-bit machines with 8-bit video hardware, so basically half the VRAM bandwidth for display (or less) ... and thus half the pixel data (or less).

The GB has 8x8 or 8x16 sprites, but that's 16 high, not wide. 10 sprites-per-line = 80 pixels per line for sprites, i.e. 1/2 a screen.

I've never developed for the SMS or the NES, but a few minutes googling says that they both support 8x8 and 8x16 sprites, with 8 sprites-per-line, i.e. 64 pixels-per-line, i.e. 1/4 screen (they're both older hardware designs than the GB).

Thanks again for the explanation!

To be fair though, the GB might be newer, but it also has like, half the horizontal resolution...

Black Tiger

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Re: Street Fighter Zero 2, how well could the PCFX handle it?
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2017, 08:50:46 AM »
You can't actually display 32 32px wide sprites on one scanline on the SGX/PCFX, though.   32 per scanline is the best case scenario, using 16px wide sprites.

The limit is 512px per scanline, so that would be 32 16px wide sprites.   If you're using wider ones, you get to enjoy clipping when you start using a lot of them on a scanline.

PCE does this but with 16 instead of 32 sprites.  You get 256 pixels per scanline.   That's 16x16.
Huh, that's something I never knew, I thought the PCE was capable of displaying 16 32px wide sprites on the same scanline...

Do you happen to know if other systems of the time also had this limitation? Like say, the Game Boy or the Mega Drive?

The easiest way to remember how much horizontal sprite bandwidth you have is that the max sprite pixels per line is 256. 16 x 32 would be two screens wide and you would rarely see flicker/drop out.
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