Author Topic: Turbo in HD  (Read 842 times)

2X4

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2007, 11:09:49 AM »
I have used my TG-16 on my HDTV, and it really doesn't look bad.  My tv has several options for the aspect ratio, including a pillar box where the image isn't stretched at all, and another option where it stretches some areas less than others, and slightly crops the outside which doesn't look half bad either.  But the old problems composite video are still there.  And since a dvi-i connection has pins for analog rgb, and converters from dvi to hdmi exist, I thought it may be possible to sneak the rgb signal into my tv, and possibly digital audio if someone knew enough about it.  I am going to mod my turbo, so i thought i would tackle this question now, rather than do an s-video mod and then find out later that this would have been possible. 

Obviously it wouldn't increase the resolution of my system, I do know that.  I would never play in stretched mode, Bonk's head is wide enough, I don't want the poor bastard to be any more deformed.  My TV does not automatically try to upscale signals, though I think it can if I want it to.  I don't mind the blockiness of the enlarged pixels, that is just what you get when 200 pixels are displayed over several square feet.  I just want the turbo's out put to be piped in its truest possible form to the tv.  So, those of you with the skills, please keep the wheels turning, I think it would be really cool if someone can come up with a feasible way since apparently lots of us have made the HD leap. 
The Turbo was Dual Core when Dual Core wasn't cool . . .

Joe Redifer

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2007, 11:49:16 AM »
Yes, I was refering to the mandatory scaling that ALL HDTVs do to "classic" game systems.  These systems run at 240p, and then the TV interprets it as an interlaced signal so it converts it to 480i (image destruction #1), then it converts that 480i into 480p or whatever the HDTV's native resolution is (image destruction #2).  It makes it look blockier, yes.  And it also adds a bit of lag.  I don't care how quick your scaler is, it isn't instantaneous.  These game systems look much crisper and better on an SDTV displayed in 240p than on an HDTV no matter what connections are used.  If you can't see the difference, well then good for you.

MrFulci

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2007, 01:14:32 PM »
Not ALL HDTV's do that upconversion to ____, then _________, etc. Check around, you may have some control on your television as to what output you want.

Joe, your television should at least be able to stop at 480i. Then again, ever since I saw a friend's HDTV monitor that lacked coaxial input (really...), nothing much can surprise me with HDTV's.

Scalers vary. Some are better than others. Lag has never come to mind when fooling around with my game systems.

I don't sense much image destruction when I play certain games on the HD. And I'm pretty picky with image quality, ahahha. I've gone so far as to have my HDTV calibrated... and recalibrated by www.avical.com.

I've had as early as an Atari 2600 hooked up to the HDTV. All have looked pretty decent, though I'm careful not to leave 2600 games on screen too long as the scores and such are stationary.


Untill I hook up 2 similar televisions, side by side, and play the same game, on the same system, at the same time, will i be able to form a concrete feeling on one over the other.
"Damnit, Beavis, put that away. You're not supposed to have your _____ out when you're cooking".

gundarN

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2007, 12:46:18 AM »
I run my PC Engine on a 32" Sony Bravia HD telly and it looks really, really good; and that's just using the component cable. Much better than on my old (and expensive) CRT.

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2007, 10:38:48 AM »
Regardless of how well any HDTV handles rotten old 240p consoles signals, a mod upgrade to at least S-Video will make a huge difference.

I took some screenshots of my 720p LCD with the Playstation 2 Wonderboy Collection running a couple games in 240p outputting through Component and the real actual consoles displaying the same screens through Composite and S-Video.


http://superpcenginegrafx.com/hdtvsvideo.html


There's not much difference between console 240p S-Video and emulated 240p Component.

My TV doesn't totally destroy 240p images, but there are artifacts that look kinda like some of those ugly optional filters that some emulators have. Its gets less noticeable the simpler the graphics. Single color blocky Intellivision sprites don't look much different. It does seem to have less of an affect on the Playstation 2 images, but they're also running at different vertical resolutions than the real graphics/consoles.

Classic systems still look nice enough to play on LCD  & Plasma HDTVs like this. But nowhere near as nice as on good CRT TVs.

So I don't think its necessary to attempt to get as close to HDMI as you can with a PC Engine, but an RGB/S-Video mod is recommended regardless of what kind of TV you're going to use.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 10:52:56 AM by Black_Tiger »
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Kitsunexus

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2007, 12:02:18 PM »
I took some screenshots of my 720p LCD with the Playstation 2 Wonderboy Collection running a couple games in 240p outputting through Component and the real actual consoles displaying the same screens through Composite and S-Video.

http://superpcenginegrafx.com/hdtvsvideo.html

There's not much difference between console 240p S-Video and emulated 240p Component.




So the emulation sucks.

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2007, 12:28:05 PM »
I took some screenshots of my 720p LCD with the Playstation 2 Wonderboy Collection running a couple games in 240p outputting through Component and the real actual consoles displaying the same screens through Composite and S-Video.

http://superpcenginegrafx.com/hdtvsvideo.html

There's not much difference between console 240p S-Video and emulated 240p Component.




So the emulation sucks.


How do you mean?
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Kitsunexus

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2007, 05:01:16 PM »
Emulated component should look just as shit as real component.

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2007, 01:40:11 AM »
Emulated component should look just as shit as real component.

It does, didn't you see the screenshots? Its like running a computer on your HDTV.

S-Video with retro consoles looks like emulation on a TV. Its only when you pick apart aspects of the image that you can really appreciate the slight improvement gained by RGB-to-Component. But both are a huge jump from Composite.

The distortion that un-console-friendly HDTVs produce evens out the slight difference even more. If anything, the console S-Video looks better than PS2 component to pixel haters, since it has smooth edges.
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Kitsunexus

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2007, 02:28:06 AM »
Emulated component should look just as shit as real component.

It does, didn't you see the screenshots?

No from the screenshots it seems like emulated component looks like actual S-Video. If I choose component, I want component damnit!

2X4

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2007, 05:59:26 AM »
So I guess the best answer is to do RGB to component mod? 

I'm still holding out for the HDMI idea, for simplicity's sake.  Plus it would still be one less signal conversion.
The Turbo was Dual Core when Dual Core wasn't cool . . .

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2007, 01:17:21 PM »
Emulated component should look just as shit as real component.

It does, didn't you see the screenshots?

No from the screenshots it seems like emulated component looks like actual S-Video. If I choose component, I want component damnit!

Those are photographs. Like I said in person the PS2 MW Collection looks like a computer emulator, only better.
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gundarN

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2007, 08:34:14 PM »
Classic systems still look nice enough to play on LCD  & Plasma HDTVs like this. But nowhere near as nice as on good CRT TVs.
I had a really good CRT, and it still looks much better on my LCD. I wouldn't even think about modding my PC Engine as the picture is perfect as it is.
I suppose it depends on which TV you have.

FM-77

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2007, 02:31:16 AM »
Those are photographs. Like I said in person the PS2 MW Collection looks like a computer emulator, only better.

How can it look better than on a computer monitor (i e perfect)?

Necromancer

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Re: Turbo in HD
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2007, 06:16:42 AM »
B_T was talking about a computer emulator running on a HDTV, which isn't quite the same as a computer monitor (though damn close).
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