Author Topic: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart  (Read 16165 times)

thesteve

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #195 on: April 14, 2013, 11:27:26 AM »
i have used a few different amp designs
have placed amp on top of slot shield, attached to top cover, and on back of DIN
the jailbars were subtle without the mod, and not seen with.
not seen may not be 100% but its close.
best amp is a simple transistor NPN emitter out, collector power, 5K resistor across a cap to chip pins.
the simplicity of the circuit makes it a low noise amp

NightWolve

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #196 on: April 14, 2013, 06:59:05 PM »
> http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8462/dscn0107lz.jpg

Looks awesome! You know, I had an idea with the vias in my case given that my wires are separate, thin enough, etc. See those 4 vias aligned in square form that are right above your 3rd usage of hot glue going from the 6260 chip ?? Right there I was thinking I'd push the wires upwards and hot glue as well for good measure. That would shorten the path to the amp too! But anyway, yours looks great and you'll never have to flip the PCB over again, so all good!

gtsamour

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #197 on: April 14, 2013, 08:49:44 PM »
Somehow I doubt shortening the wires by a bit and shielding the amp does make a difference...
At first on my Core II, I added the amp externally to the console (right out of the console, a few cm after the connector), here's the thread with photos http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9379.0 So no interference from digital signals coming from the PCE board there...
I still had the same intensity jailbars like on other consoles that had the amp internally.
After some time that i managed to make the amp smaller I remoded the Core II and installed the amp inside it. No change as far as jailbars go, exactly the same jailbars.


The jailbars were subtle without the mod steve because you were getting picture through composite (or worse through RF). Composite smooths the picture making the JB less visible. RGB mod makes them more clearly visible and not nesesarily because an amp "adds" more of them.

My jailbars are hardly visible too, I make comparissons on the initial gaming screen of the Keith Courage game in which the jailbars are more easily to be spoted due to the light blue color of the sky but on any other game only a trained eye can locate them, they are almost invisible but never completely gone.

Don't get me wrong, the theoreticly right way to do it is to avoid interferences by shortening cables and shielding the amp but practicly these two may make no difference. At least I haven't seen any and I've made many trials with the RGB thing.

I have even connected the RGB signals without any amp (bad colours) and noticed that the jailbars were exactly the same (with or without it).

Thats the reason I'm positive that the secret of completely removing the jailbars is doing something to the 6260 chip (like shielding it).

Actually on the Turbo Grafx-16 there is a shielded chip by factory but im not sure its the 6260, it probably is... (picture found on the internet)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:52:50 PM by gtsamour »

thesteve

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #198 on: April 15, 2013, 04:15:42 AM »
its ram i think
the 6260 is not sheilded
the jailbars are on the ground plane and 6260 ref low pin
thats why i have you add a cap across chip power and chip ref low to ground.
near as i can tell the jailbars are being caused primarily by the color encoder circuit, causing current pulses inside the 6260

gtsamour

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #199 on: April 15, 2013, 06:34:33 PM »
Yes you're right, it's not the 6260 chip that is shielded on the photo. The 6260 is the chip to the most right.

I really wish there will be a way to completely wipe out these pulses so we can all get rid of these damn jailbars :) The caps are a significant improvement.

To my experience though, and the amp I'm using, there doesn't seem to be any other kind of interference adding up to the jailbars issue. This conclusion comes from several trials I've conducted myself, like comparing the same screen on RGB with or without the amp, with ground on pins 55-56 and with ground on the expansion port's ground or elsewhere, with amp inside or out of the console.
These trials showed no observable difference concerning the jailbars on one way or the other.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 01:23:12 AM by gtsamour »

Kyle

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #200 on: November 09, 2013, 01:27:45 PM »
[removed, sorry]
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 08:39:34 PM by Kyle »

Game-Tech.US

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #201 on: November 24, 2014, 06:56:03 AM »
I've been asked about what cap sizes I use to recap the Duo, using surface mount ceramics instead of electrolytic leaded caps.
I show the process in this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIvEluVelU

Mouser is out of some of these, but this was what I settled on using:
77-VJ1206V106ZXQTBC 1206 10uF 10volts qty 6
77-VJ1206V475MXJTBC 1206 4.7uF 16volts qty 4
810-CGA6P3X7R1H335K 1210 3.3uF 50volts qty 1
963-LMK316F226ZL-T 1206 10V 22uF qty 19
81-GRM31CE70J476ME5L 1206 47uF 6.3volts qty 4
81-GRM31CD80J107ME9L 1206 100uF 6.3volts qty 10

What mouser didn't have I got off ebay, looked for known good name brand reels of 100uF and 47uF, iirc TDK and Taiyo Yuden.

I'd still like to know if any of these can be eliminated and a higher or lower uF value used, where it's not critical etc. Just to make it that much easier to order etc.

cjameslv

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #202 on: January 08, 2015, 01:03:26 PM »
I've been asked about what cap sizes I use to recap the Duo, using surface mount ceramics instead of electrolytic leaded caps.
I show the process in this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIvEluVelU

Mouser is out of some of these, but this was what I settled on using:
77-VJ1206V106ZXQTBC 1206 10uF 10volts qty 6
77-VJ1206V475MXJTBC 1206 4.7uF 16volts qty 4
810-CGA6P3X7R1H335K 1210 3.3uF 50volts qty 1
963-LMK316F226ZL-T 1206 10V 22uF qty 19
81-GRM31CE70J476ME5L 1206 47uF 6.3volts qty 4
81-GRM31CD80J107ME9L 1206 100uF 6.3volts qty 10

What mouser didn't have I got off ebay, looked for known good name brand reels of 100uF and 47uF, iirc TDK and Taiyo Yuden.

I'd still like to know if any of these can be eliminated and a higher or lower uF value used, where it's not critical etc. Just to make it that much easier to order etc.

The 47uf & 100uf back in stock just today. Been waiting forever. Your list came in at 12.77 + shipping. I chose the $4.99 usps shipping

Game-Tech.US

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #203 on: January 08, 2015, 01:21:38 PM »
I always kick in the extra few $s to go ups, I did that cheap service once and it took like 2 weeks.
I think they use ups to your post office then whatever from there, so it takes longer...

cjameslv

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #204 on: January 15, 2015, 03:22:57 AM »
Part arrived yesterday, so took a week which i don't think is bad for cheapie shipping.

SmokeMonster

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #205 on: February 26, 2015, 01:49:16 PM »
Thanks for the great chart. I had it open on my monitor andj also printed off Console5's, and the recap was a breeze. One suggestion would be to upload a higher resolution version, so it can be blown up larger.

I used all Panasonic caps. When I powered it up, the CD-ROM even started to spin for the first time. The picture and audio are fantastic now, and I'll do some more with the CD when all of my buttons are out of their retr0brite treatment. I bought my Duo for peanuts because it was sold for parts as "completely broken".



I was inspired by the capacitor charts posted here and did some of my own for the Neo Geo CDZ last week.

A huge thank-you also to Game-Tech.US for posting so many great tutorials on youtube.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 02:00:41 PM by SmokeMonster »

Waterclocker

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #206 on: February 27, 2015, 09:24:19 AM »
I've got a couple Duos I will be recapping soon.  Definitely will using this guide.  I'm curious is anyone has noticed a difference in sound quality between different types of caps.  I've heard ceramic caps are not the best option for audio circuits.  I will probably use the Panasonic FC series, but I'm wondering if audio grade caps would make the audio even better?  I would probably use ELNA Silmic 2s.  Most are probably just glad to get their Duo working, but I'm wondering it this would make a noticable difference.  Any thoughts?
My Channel - Pickups, repairs, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/user/CollectingRetro

Needs more OBEY, but I'm working on it.

SmokeMonster

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #207 on: February 27, 2015, 11:50:17 AM »
I'm wondering if audio grade caps would make the audio even better?  I would probably use ELNA Silmic 2s.  Most are probably just glad to get their Duo working, but I'm wondering it this would make a noticable difference.  Any thoughts?
I certainly don't think they would hurt, but I am skeptical that you would be able to differentiate and improvements.

That said, if you are replacing audio caps it makes perfect sense to use nice audio graded caps if you have them on hand. Almost anything will be a big improvement over the stock setup. My Duo had a few ELNA caps and a Rubycon or two, but most were garbage Chang caps, and they are all very old and degraded by this point. I was surprised at just how badly the caps had fared in my Duo.

mickcris

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #208 on: February 28, 2015, 04:30:15 AM »
I've got a couple Duos I will be recapping soon.  Definitely will using this guide.  I'm curious is anyone has noticed a difference in sound quality between different types of caps.  I've heard ceramic caps are not the best option for audio circuits.  I will probably use the Panasonic FC series, but I'm wondering if audio grade caps would make the audio even better?  I would probably use ELNA Silmic 2s.  Most are probably just glad to get their Duo working, but I'm wondering it this would make a noticable difference.  Any thoughts?

It would be a good experiment if you got both sets of caps for the audio and tried them one at a time.  Probably the only way to tell if there is any difference.

Waterclocker

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Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart
« Reply #209 on: March 04, 2015, 05:28:09 AM »
Thanks for the comments!  Good idea!  I started to swap out some caps, but I'm noticing that my DUO-R sounds way way better.  I've changed SMT caps in the op-amp area with new Silmic 2s, but have noticed no improvement over the old caps that were possibly still good.  The DUO-R is louder and is much more dynamic with better mid range and bass.  Both original DUOs I have sound the same.  Does the DUO-R have a better sound circuit?  Going to keep changing caps, but need to order more.  I hope I can get the DUOs I have to sound as good as my DUO-R at least.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 05:29:47 AM by Waterclocker »
My Channel - Pickups, repairs, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/user/CollectingRetro

Needs more OBEY, but I'm working on it.