Author Topic: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate  (Read 10886 times)

nodtveidt

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2007, 01:13:49 PM »
Genesis has poor color. PcEngine games are better looking and more colorful that the Genesis. Go ahead and compare after burner, then you will see what I'm talking about. The PcEngine was obviously more powerful. Genesis games always look shitty. You can especially see the difference on that sorry lords of thunder port. I mean come on, was that a joke? It had parallax were it wasn't supposed to, eliminating the purpose of parallax. The sound was god awful too. All of the colors are bland and faded. Seriously, go download the dual boot cd and see for yourself.
That's due to a better color encoder in the PCE hardware. But yes, the sound was definitely worse in the Sega CD port. I almost screamed though when I read this one comparison between the two versions written by some Sega fanboy that said that the reason why the Sega version was poor was because it "they copied the code over". Yeah, sure thing, brat...pure assembly code from a 6502-based CPU to a 68000 CPU...yep, code copy alright...dammit, I wanted to hit that idiot with a tack hammer for his overwhelming ignorance of how CPUs work.

GUTS: I feel sorry for you. :P

GUTS

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2007, 01:33:43 PM »
Do you feel sorry for me because I am gifted with the ability to perceive the reality of Soul Star pretty much slaughtering every SNES and Turbo game ever graphically?  Like I'd be better off living in ignorance and delusion instead?

Michael Helgeson

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2007, 01:39:25 PM »
or better yet noticed the background flickering in psychosis cause it's really an extra sprite that the turbo can't handle.

That would be more or less due to poorer quality programming,and a early title. If this was the way to judge things,only on the early weaker stuff,then we should be bring up weak titles on Genesis like Space Harrier 2,Curse, Super Thunderblade,which totally sucks placed against the PcEngine one,and alot of others.

Turbo D

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2007, 01:42:03 PM »
Back when these consoles came out, arcades were what I was all about.  The Genesis matched the arcades better than the Turbo due to the extra screen which was almost ALWAYS present in the hot new arcade games of the time. 
I think that the PcEngine did a better job on altered beast and afterburner than the Genesis did, haha.

nodtveidt

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2007, 01:42:36 PM »
Oh yes GUTS, I'm so positive that a badly-controlling game like that is just the app killer. :roll: The game is okay but nothing to write home about. The graphics are good but nothing we haven't seen ten thousand times before.

I think that the PcEngine did a better job on altered beast and afterburner than the Genesis did, haha.
Both versions suck. Sucky ports of a sucky game. :(

runinruder

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2007, 01:46:17 PM »
I basically agree with GUTS, though I think he's being a little too kind to the Duo. 

or better yet noticed the background flickering in psychosis cause it's really an extra sprite that the turbo can't handle.

That would be more or less due to poorer quality programming,and a early title. If this was the way to judge things,only on the early weaker stuff,then we should be bring up weak titles on Genesis like Space Harrier 2,Curse, Super Thunderblade,which totally sucks placed against the PcEngine one,and alot of others.

But Paranoia (Psychosis) was released two and a half years into the PCE's life, and it's considered by many to be one of the stronger chip shooters. 
www.thebrothersduomazov.com - Reviews of over 400 TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine games

Black Tiger

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2007, 01:47:47 PM »
I see alot on here with folks trying to declare the turbo as having more impressive graphics than the genesis. I've always been a fan of turbografx but pretty much knew the graphics were not up to snuff (even though I would still argue the point back in the day). The additional background layer on the genesis did wonders, and it seemed like the turbo games spent alot of power and sprites trying to emulate this effect. Also the resolution always appeared higher on the Genesis games, with smoother edges and more detailed sprites.

I would give the turbo an edge in color, but thats about it. I would say that it was always interesting to see how the programmers could overcome the single background limitation on the the turbo. LOT is especially impressive in this department. The limitations of the turbo are especially apparent in ports like altered beast and strider, where the turbo just can't match the depth of the parallax layers.

Any comparisons that could blow me out of the water and prove me wrong? I'd love to see. Plus where, if it all, does the turbo beat out the Genesis in any tech stat categories? I'm talking strictly graphics not sound

Genesis games appeared to have smoother edges and shading that wasn't really there because of how blurry the RF and composite image quality was. Turbo 'graphics' appeared extra pixelly because of how clear the image was. During the heyday of the 16-bit console wars, some of my friends argued the same thing.

It sounds like you aren't overly familiar with the PC Engine library, but maybe you are and just missed some of the better examples of the kinda graphics that impress you.

An unimpressive game on any platform is the fault of the developer, not the hardware. Altered Beast wasn't the greatest port even on Genesis. The parallax used in the Genesis version is a poor example by Genesis standards and can easily be replicated on the PC Engine, SMS or NES.

If you're judging the mediocre Altered Beast PCE port as being poor mainly because of the missing layers, you must also not be very impressed by the weak arcade hardware whose version of Altered Beast's flat backgrounds the PCE port emulates just fine.

Strider is widely regarded as one of the worst arcade to PCE ports and the Genesis version one of its best. At least criticize the PCE version of Forgotten Worlds for having nearly arcade perfect graphics and flat bgs as looking uglier than the Genesis port's crude in comparison graphics complimented by layered bgs.

But regardless, I don't understand how you can point out how impressive Lords of Thunder is for layered graphics in one sentence and in the next sentence say that Altered Beast and Strider prove that the PC Engine can't do them. #-o

I don't know if any examples could blow you out of the water, since your appreciation of graphics is based on how closely they emulate the Genesis. Any good examples of layered bgs in PCE games could still be done on Genesis if you discount the actual graphics.

Aside from all the Turbo/PCE games that have nice layered graphics, there are still a bunch of flat bg games that look nicer than their Genesis counterparts. But its still not simply always a reflection of a weakness in the Genesis and usually has more to do with the developer(like when all the graphics are redrawn). But when the Turbo's strength in color is used effectively, it does look very nice compared to a well done Genesis port. Like say SFIICE and the arcade card Neo Geo ports.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 01:51:20 PM by Black Tiger »
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GUTS

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2007, 01:49:04 PM »
Dude I'm only talking about the graphics obviously (that's what we're all talking about here since you didn't read the whole thread), and they're beyond "nothing we haven't seen before".  Any real programmer would have respect for what Core was able to do with the hardware in both Battlecorps and Soul Star.

Michael Helgeson

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2007, 01:49:53 PM »
Soul Star is good,granted,as most Core titles were,but its built on scaling,and that only stays impressive for so long before you want more going on and more traditional stuff to look at. This is why I enjoy traditional side scrolling shooters the most myself.

Joe Redifer

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2007, 01:53:11 PM »
Quote

Super Thunderblade,which totally sucks placed against the PcEngine one


I dunno, dude.  They both look fantastically crappy to me.  The PCE version emulates the arcade version more whereas the Genesis version is supposed to be a sequel.  Both the PCE and Genesis versions have atrocious first person graphics that are beyond pathetic.

GUTS

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2007, 01:56:09 PM »
Oh yeah I agree, side scrolling shooters are way better for actually playing, I never said Soul Star was actually a very good game (actually I don't really like it at all since half the levels are free roam which I hate).  I was just listing Soul Star as a game that did things graphically that the SNES or Turbo couldn't have done since the scaling was so impressive for the time.  Personally I think it still looks amazing today though, I'm always impressed by games that really push the hardware to do things that we're way beyond the norm.

Joe Redifer

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2007, 02:00:46 PM »
I agree with GUTS.  Lack of color aside, Soul Star did things that the Turbo, SNES or even the Neo Geo simply could never do.

Michael Helgeson

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2007, 02:03:52 PM »
To me the 2 games that were really impressive scaling wise on the Sega Cd were Batman Returns and The Adventure of Batman and Robin. Not just that but both played extremely well.

Black Tiger

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2007, 02:06:31 PM »
Soul Star does look better than pretty much everything on Turbo and SNES as far as sprite scaling games go and the Sega-CD is the unrivaled champ for that kind of graphics. Joe's is very impressive.

But thats only one kind of graphics and not as popular as real 2D graphics/gameplay. Just as few people judge a 16-bit console's overall graphics by its polygon games.


If layered bgs are the most important/impressive aspect of 16-bit/2D graphics to someone, followed by neato effects and then actual graphics, then the SNES must be the most impressive console for them.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 02:11:10 PM by Black Tiger »
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Joe Redifer

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Re: Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2007, 02:12:38 PM »
I like the driving portions of Batman Returns as well (I always turn off the gross-looking platform parts which I feel display some of the worst Genesis graphics next to Chakan).  Batman & Robin requires you to get in a "zone" to pay it because otherwise it is too tough.  It is beatable, though.