Author Topic: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE  (Read 1500 times)

Windancer

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Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« on: January 17, 2009, 09:50:31 AM »
I just posted an article here and my first impressions of Insanity for the pcengine which be released in the comming months http://pcenginefan.blogspot.com/ hope you all enjoy it and will show arkhan some support as he goes through this project.

Arkhan

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 01:52:58 PM »
 :dance:

Why thank you!

Things are still chugging along.  I hope school starting on tuesday doesnt slow it down.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 04:28:46 PM »
Arkhan, I've been wondering for awhile now, if you have a dedicated sprite artist?  I'd really like to see this game look super nice.  I don't know if Keranu is working on anything in particular at the moment, maybe you could get him involved, though, he mainly likes to do sprites, not so much into tiles, but, I know he can make tiles look nice, I've seen him do it.

Necromancer

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2009, 04:55:54 PM »
Awesome, Arkhan!  Have you actually found someone capable of pressing real discs?  :pray:

I'd really like to see this game look super nice.

+1.  Nothing wrong with fancying things up a bit.
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Arkhan

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 09:15:03 PM »
there are some local CD Pressing places around here that do like 200 discs for 100$ or something and you get manual ,and back insert/spine label.

[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Necromancer

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 02:56:24 AM »
there are some local CD Pressing places around here that do like 200 discs for 100$ or something and you get manual ,and back insert/spine label.

But is their mastering software capable of handling non-standard mixed mode discs?
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ceti alpha

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 03:30:07 AM »
there are some local CD Pressing places around here that do like 200 discs for 100$ or something and you get manual ,and back insert/spine label.

But is their mastering software capable of handling non-standard mixed mode discs?

 :pray:

This looks cool. Can't wait!


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guyjin

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 04:21:04 AM »
 =P~ =P~ =P~ =P~ =P~ =P~ =P~
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Tom

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 04:58:20 AM »
there are some local CD Pressing places around here that do like 200 discs for 100$ or something and you get manual ,and back insert/spine label.

But is their mastering software capable of handling non-standard mixed mode discs?

 That's the thing. It is a standard mixed-mode disc. You can even make ISO-9660 mixed-mode disc that works with the PCECD too. I've gone through a 50pack of CD-Rs testing PCECD system for different specs and layouts.

 The problem is this. You know when you press 'skip' on the CD player? It automatically jumps to the next track, right? It does, but not just to the next track, it jumps to "index 1' of the next track. In the CD spec, an audio or data track can have 'chapters'. Not only can it have chapters, but it must have at least 2 (index 0 and index 1). Some live concert CDs will play the introduction of a song if you play from track A to track B, but if you skip to track B, it skips the introduction of that song (or whatever) and goes directly to the start of the song. Index 0 is the real start of a track. Most audio CDs have 2 seconds of silence here if it's unused (2 seconds is the minimum for a legal CD, otherwise it can't carry the 'compact disc' logo). When the CD player starts from the beginning with the very first track, it starts at index 01 and not index 00. There exist a few audio CD's that put a hidden track into the space between index 0 and index 1 of the first track, and the only way to get to it is to rewind (seek backwards) back into this area. This is perfectly legal.

 What does that have to do with PCE/TG CDs? The system card looks at the very first data track in the CD (it can be anywhere), but it also starts at index 1 of the data track. Nothing wrong with that either. Here's where the problem lies. If index 1 doesn't match up with the identification sector the BIOS is looking for, the BIOS won't boot the game. So you need to make sure that the pressing house has the correct sector that index 1 is pointing to. It's as simple as that.

 The PCE CD system doesn't care about the gap length between index 0 and index 1. It only cares about index 1. Knowing this, I was able to 'hide' the SegaCD part of Lords of Thunder in the same data track, and still have the PCECD boot the game normally and play. It plays fine on the SegaCD too because they don't use index 1. They use a hard/fixed offset of 2 seconds, which coincidentally is the minimum length between index 0 and 1 for the first track. Thus, a dual boot SegaCD/Duo game ;)

 If you keep the data track as the first, and make sure index is pointing to the correct sector, then you should have no problem.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 05:02:03 AM by Tom »

Necromancer

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 05:34:55 AM »
If you keep the data track as the first, and make sure index is pointing to the correct sector, then you should have no problem.

Woohoo!  Where's the que for ordering?  8)
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nodtveidt

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 02:18:41 AM »
The pressing house isn't the problem...the error lies with the mastering, which is usually done separately. The mastering process generally reorders the disc layout, rendering the whole process useless. It is assumed that the common content developer doesn't know jack shit, and since our format is not what is expected on modern equipment, the mastering software assumes it has to "correct" the layout and proceeds to "intelligently" f*ck it up. You can burn CDRs all day long that will work, but the minute your CDR hits the mastering software, it's deep-six city.

Tom

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 03:40:30 AM »
 If the pressing house doesn't know how to properly change the index for the first track in the layout, then the default index 01 of 2:00 seconds would still work fine. And assuming, for some god forsaken reason, that the mastering software looks for the CD001 string in the cooked track (which I really highly doubt), then you can still use the 9660 format for PCE. In the ISO-9660 format, the 'CD001' doesn't start until like 16-17 sectors from relative 00 (a 150 sectors of index 00). You can easily fit the identification sector and the boot sector well before the start of the CDFS table and files. The SegaCD format does just this. Nothing special needs to be mentioned or stated to the company using the master software. I highly doubt they're going to take the files out of the ISO binary and rebuild it back in a different ISO binary, that's just so many unnecessary levels higher than what the master software even needs to touch or do. All it cares about is a cooked data track. Matter of fact they don't. BT data track had no such CDFS to rip and rebuild from. The point is, there *has* to be an index 01 for the first track. Take a look windows install CD that's bootable, index 01 is exactly where it should be at 2:00 seconds in.

 I could easily find what problem BT of MindRec was having for pressing his second game, but I couldn't convince him to send me one of the sample CD's they gave him to test. I do know that he used an offset of 3:00 seconds because that's what he thought the PCE CD needed for the first data track. If they changed that back to 2:00 but kept ISO starting spot in the same as if it were 3:00 offset, then the PCE would miss the identification sector. The only other thing I can think of is that they took the ISO file and put it into another CDFS arranged ISO file, as a file - but there's no way anyone can be that retarded in the professional pressing industry.

 When I pressed (no pun intended) BT on the matter further, he didn't seem to really care. And I don't have an extra grand or so to press an example CD. At least, not without any software to benefit from having it pressed on a CD that I could sell to at least recuperate my cost on. If I get to that point, I'll let you know how it goes. If you get to that point first and need some assistance, then I can represent the technical support on your side with the pressing house if you want.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 03:43:15 AM by Tom »

nodtveidt

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 05:38:06 AM »
Then what we'll do when it comes time to press MSR is have the disc ordered the way you know it works, burn it for mastering, and send it off. If they have any issues with it, I'll put them in contact with you. With any luck, the process will go smoothly.

Oh and erm...bt can be a little stubborn sometimes. :) I asked him if he could send me a press-ready disc of Meteor Blaster DX, but he ended up sending me a blank one. I did eventually get the ISO from him, but he didn't give me the audio tracks. I can't do anything with a set that isn't ready for pressing, so I just sort of forgot about the whole thing. I don't know if he was being defiant on purpose or if he send me the wrong disc accidentally, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since he's always been so cool to me. :D It would have been better in the long run, for him and all else involved, to just go along with the plan...if everything worked out, maybe his game would have been pressed properly and that would have been the end of it.

Arkhan

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 06:54:03 AM »
Well, if they give me a stack of games that don't work, helloooo uproar.

I don't go down quietly :-D  They will fix it.

I have two knowledgeable friends here that are going to be helping out as well, so rest assured once it is all done, we will have us a finished and playable game on CD!

in other news, I registered surrealsoft.net and I am putting together a website for it.

also, I am in the process of getting some new screen shots.  There is a new floor pattern that once I tweak it willl have an interesting and i hope not too seizure inducing pulse effect going.

and sound is coming along alright so far.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Tatsujin

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Re: Homebrew is alive and well on PCE
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2009, 02:24:15 PM »
very nice and keep up the good work :)

and yes, some enhancement here and there would become it. who takes care about the BGMs and FXs? :)
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