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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: DragonmasterDan on August 18, 2013, 11:32:27 AM
Title: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 18, 2013, 11:32:27 AM
I finally had the chance to play Annete Futatabi for Mega CD, the sequel to one of my favorite Genesis games El Viento, and even though I knew going in this was a lousy beat-em up. I had no idea how bad it actually was until I tried it. Enemies hide from you off screen in inaccessible places, lousy collision detection, lots of slowdown, mindless AI. It's hard to express how bad this game is.
What are some games you knew going in were going to be bad, but let you down even more than expected?
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: geise on August 18, 2013, 01:22:58 PM
Pit Fighter, Rise of the Robots, Darkwing Duck, Falcon.
Dan I also want to add I feel the same way about Annete Futatabi, since El Viento is also one of my favorites as well.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: bartre on August 18, 2013, 03:17:31 PM
honestly, Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue. *shudder*
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 19, 2013, 12:14:19 AM
I finally had the chance to play Annete Futatabi for Mega CD, the sequel to one of my favorite Genesis games El Viento, and even though I knew going in this was a lousy beat-em up. I had no idea how bad it actually was until I tried it. Enemies hide from you off screen in inaccessible places, lousy collision detection, lots of slowdown, mindless AI. It's hard to express how bad this game is.
What are some games you knew going in were going to be bad, but let you down even more than expected?
I like El Viento, but, DAMN, why does it have such a cult following, where other games of equal caliber are shrugged off? YES, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE VALIS SERIES! OK, maybe I'm just a bit too sensitive. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
PCE:
(1) Turrican — one of the FEW times I can say "meh", since I rarely feel "meh" (most games can compel me, hook me, at least a little...but I have NO FEELINGS for Turrican on PCE). Bleh. APATHY. INDIFFERENCE.
(2) Darkwing Duck — the pogo is fun, but my inability to discern any logic as to how the game responds to my actions renders me frustrated. This is more than merely bad "collision detection", this is a fundamental failure to communicate what I, as a player, am supposed to do at the very beginning of the damn game. I mean, I can't discern basic CAUSALITY in the damn game. Everything seems arbitrary, governed by rules that are unfathomable. HOW DO I PROGRESS. POGO. 45 DEGREE ROAD. CONFUSED. 45 DEGREE ROAD. POGO.
(3) Night Creatures — I want to appreciate this game, but I still haven't had a chance to channel Black_Tiger's soul and do what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 19, 2013, 12:46:09 AM
I like El Viento, but, DAMN, why does it have such a cult following, where other games of equal caliber are shrugged off? YES, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE VALIS SERIES! OK, maybe I'm just a bit too sensitive. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
I'm not sure if you're kidding or not. But, just in case you're serious. One major reason is that El Viento controls a hell of a lot better. The dash mechanic is a nice gimmick that adds speed and playability to it. The level design is more interesting, and overall I find the game far less aggravating than any Valis game I've played (being 1 on Genesis and Famicom, II on Turbo, Syd of Valis, III on Turbo and Genesis and Super Valis IV).
Quote
PCE: (2) Darkwing Duck — the pogo is fun, but my inability to discern any logic as to how the game responds to my actions renders me frustrated. This is more than merely bad "collision detection", this is a fundamental failure to communicate what I, as a player, am supposed to do at the very beginning of the damn game. I mean, I can't discern basic CAUSALITY in the damn game. Everything seems arbitrary, governed by rules that are unfathomable. HOW DO I PROGRESS. POGO. 45 DEGREE ROAD. CONFUSED. 45 DEGREE ROAD. POGO.
I think this game is worse than Tailspin, though some disagree with me.
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(3) Night Creatures — I want to appreciate this game, but I still haven't had a chance to channel Black_Tiger's soul and do what needs to be done.
I'll be kind and call this game a shit sandwich. Even if it had lofty aspirations of being "Symphony of the Night before Symphony of the Night". Terrible control, gameplay, level design and other issues caused it to fall flat on its face. A while back I made a thread about how this was the worst game on the domestic Turbo. I certainly think it's in the running with Falcon and Gunboat for that distinction.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 19, 2013, 03:22:10 AM
I like El Viento, but, DAMN, why does it have such a cult following, where other games of equal caliber are shrugged off? YES, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE VALIS SERIES! OK, maybe I'm just a bit too sensitive. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
I'm not sure if you're kidding or not. But, just in case you're serious. One major reason is that El Viento controls a hell of a lot better. The dash mechanic is a nice gimmick that adds speed and playability to it. The level design is more interesting, and overall I find the game far less aggravating than any Valis game I've played (being 1 on Genesis and Famicom, II on Turbo, Syd of Valis, III on Turbo and Genesis and Super Valis IV).
Quote
PCE: (2) Darkwing Duck — the pogo is fun, but my inability to discern any logic as to how the game responds to my actions renders me frustrated. This is more than merely bad "collision detection", this is a fundamental failure to communicate what I, as a player, am supposed to do at the very beginning of the damn game. I mean, I can't discern basic CAUSALITY in the damn game. Everything seems arbitrary, governed by rules that are unfathomable. HOW DO I PROGRESS. POGO. 45 DEGREE ROAD. CONFUSED. 45 DEGREE ROAD. POGO.
I think this game is worse than Tailspin, though some disagree with me.
Quote
(3) Night Creatures — I want to appreciate this game, but I still haven't had a chance to channel Black_Tiger's soul and do what needs to be done.
I'll be kind and call this game a shit sandwich. Even if it had lofty aspirations of being "Symphony of the Night before Symphony of the Night". Terrible control, gameplay, level design and other issues caused it to fall flat on its face. A while back I made a thread about how this was the worst game on the domestic Turbo. I certainly think it's in the running with Falcon and Gunboat for that distinction.
Darkwing Duck is definitely worse than Tailspin, in my humble opinion.
Night Creatures just ____________. I agree with you.
Valis III (PCE, Genesis to a lesser extent) is pinnacle of series and kicks ass. It is so satisfying. It's a shame the level design isn't too creative in the series, but at least III tries (slightly). Valis II, for example, is a decent platformer, but it is generic (enemy AI) with very little flair in level design. Valis IV was a let down for me (PCE, SFC)... Not nearly as satisfying as III. Syd of Valis? Horrendous.
EL VIENTO does not crush Valis III. I guess that's what I should have said. I like El Viento.
Valis III (PCE, Genesis to a lesser extent) is pinnacle of series and kicks ass. It is so satisfying. It's a shame the level design isn't too creative in the series, but at least III tries (slightly). Valis II, for example, is a decent platformer, but it is generic (enemy AI) with very little flair in level design. Valis IV was a let down for me (PCE, SFC)... Not nearly as satisfying as III. Syd of Valis? Horrendous.
EL VIENTO does not crush Valis III. I guess that's what I should have said. I like El Viento.
I take it you haven't played any version of Valis 1?
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Black Tiger on August 19, 2013, 05:17:13 AM
I had low expectations going in to Sword of Sodan and Techno Cop, even thouh each time it was before any reviews had been published. In both cases I remember thinking "wow, this is even worse than I expected".
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: TheClash603 on August 19, 2013, 04:27:12 PM
I grew up loving Altered Beast in the arcade. When I got my Genesis, I even loved the home game.
Years later I picked up the Master System version of the game, which I had heard terrible things about, but I figured it would just be a lower tech Altered Beast.
The game ended up being nearly unplayable, with a frame rate of maybe 5 fps once there is an enemy on screen. Complete garbage.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 20, 2013, 12:31:57 AM
I grew up loving Altered Beast in the arcade. When I got my Genesis, I even loved the home game.
Years later I picked up the Master System version of the game, which I had heard terrible things about, but I figured it would just be a lower tech Altered Beast.
The game ended up being nearly unplayable, with a frame rate of maybe 5 fps once there is an enemy on screen. Complete garbage.
OMG. I have never played the SMS version...or, if I have, I must have repressed it. I honestly can't be certain.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 20, 2013, 12:36:20 AM
Valis III (PCE, Genesis to a lesser extent) is pinnacle of series and kicks ass. It is so satisfying. It's a shame the level design isn't too creative in the series, but at least III tries (slightly). Valis II, for example, is a decent platformer, but it is generic (enemy AI) with very little flair in level design. Valis IV was a let down for me (PCE, SFC)... Not nearly as satisfying as III. Syd of Valis? Horrendous.
EL VIENTO does not crush Valis III. I guess that's what I should have said. I like El Viento.
I take it you haven't played any version of Valis 1?
I have played them on Genny and PCE, but it hasn't been recent. I don't remember being particularly in love with it...
ALSO I REALIZE THAT VALIS II ISN'T A REMARKABLE GAME, BUT I LOVE THE MUSIC.
Valis II music > all WolfTeam on Genesis/MegaDrive/MegaCD/what-have-you.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 20, 2013, 12:47:36 AM
I think Golden Axe on our PCE CD shoots to the top of my list.
I was thinking about it as well after the mention of Altered Beast
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: EvilEvoIX on August 20, 2013, 04:28:03 AM
Legend of Success Joe. What a train wreck! Controls are bad, colors are bad, the premise is bad. Just a terrible effort. I ran through it out of curiosity but never again,
Rise of the Robots is also terrible.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Black Tiger on August 20, 2013, 05:49:11 AM
I think Golden Axe on our PCE CD shoots to the top of my list.
I don't think that it's possible for the game to seem any worse than it's made out to be by so many people. If anything, it shouldn't seem as bad since too many people are overly critical of the cinemas and music.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 20, 2013, 06:18:34 AM
I don't think that it's possible for the game to seem any worse than it's made out to be by so many people. If anything, it shouldn't seem as bad since too many people are overly critical of the cinemas and music.
IMO the Cinema's are the best part.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 20, 2013, 02:13:13 PM
Black Hole Assault.
I played the PCE and SegaCD versions (honestly, the music and the Sega artwork have provided 100% of my enjoyment from the game). I didn't beat the games (too boring).
I read that the game was lame, but I said,"it's gotta be fun for a few minutes."
I was wrong. 15-20 seconds into the game, you realize how lame it is.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. STOP! I see you scouring eBay for the cheapest copy. STOP!
HISTORY: I remember playing HEAVY NOVA on the genesis and thinking it was a big load of crap....I didn't realize that BLACK HOLE ASSAULT was a sequel until after playing.
TRUTH: I thought "Heavy Nova" was an awesome title and I was so disappointed by it. For some reason, a lot of game magazines covered it as a "Coming Soon" title and I must not have been the only kid who was excited about it.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: geise on August 20, 2013, 02:23:15 PM
I had low expectations going in to Sword of Sodan and Techno Cop, even thouh each time it was before any reviews had been published. In both cases I remember thinking "wow, this is even worse than I expected".
Haha! I remember going to Toys R Us and seeing Sword of Sodan from the flyer. I thought the graphics looked amazing! My brother bought it and man, when we got home it was just total disappointment. The next day he took it back saying it was defective and got Strider! :lol:
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: TheClash603 on August 20, 2013, 04:28:20 PM
I had low expectations going in to Sword of Sodan and Techno Cop, even thouh each time it was before any reviews had been published. In both cases I remember thinking "wow, this is even worse than I expected".
I love Techno Cop... Jelly gun is awesome.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Tatsujin on August 20, 2013, 05:08:19 PM
just watched the castlevania port for the Amiga the other day, man that game sure can't be more bad than this :lol:
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: bob on August 21, 2013, 02:09:53 AM
I just picked up Yo Bro on ebay, and I have a feeling it's going to exceed my expectations of BAD
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: vestcoat on August 22, 2013, 04:11:27 AM
Ditto on Altered Beast SMS.
My short list:
Alf - SMS Most truly broken game I've ever played.
Ultima Warriors of Destiny - NES Knew it was bad, but after beating FCI's ports of Exodus, Avatar, False Prophet, and Hydlide, I thought I could enjoy anything. I was wrong.
Night Creatures - TG16 I dig Tailspin, Darkwing, Ghost Manor, Turrican, and Impossamole once in a while, but not this game. The enemy of fun.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: geise on August 22, 2013, 05:59:29 AM
Yeah man Night Creatures is so bad I actually forgot about it. Well, forced myself to forget about it.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: bob on August 22, 2013, 06:23:31 AM
Alf - SMS Most truly broken game I've ever played.
Ultima Warriors of Destiny - NES Knew it was bad, but after beating FCI's ports of Exodus, Avatar, False Prophet, and Hydlide, I thought I could enjoy anything. I was wrong.
Night Creatures - TG16 I dig Tailspin, Darkwing, Ghost Manor, Turrican, and Impossamole once in a while, but not this game. The enemy of fun.
Wait, you got through NES Hydlide?
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: futureman2000 on August 22, 2013, 06:27:58 AM
Good call on Alf. It's really bad, then you get to the cave where you have to defend yourself against bats with a salami... And the shit hits the fan.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on August 22, 2013, 06:30:24 AM
Alf - SMS Most truly broken game I've ever played.
Ultima Warriors of Destiny - NES Knew it was bad, but after beating FCI's ports of Exodus, Avatar, False Prophet, and Hydlide, I thought I could enjoy anything. I was wrong.
Night Creatures - TG16 I dig Tailspin, Darkwing, Ghost Manor, Turrican, and Impossamole once in a while, but not this game. The enemy of fun.
Wait, you got through NES Hydlide?
NES Hydlide is actually really short, and yea- I could be put on the list of fellas that played through it as well.
Also, I played Warriors of Destiny on it's release going in with VERY VERY high expectations as I loved Exodus and QotA. Son, I was disappoint. Holy hell I hated that game....
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: bob on August 22, 2013, 06:43:18 AM
f*ck, now i need to try it again.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: jeffhlewis on August 22, 2013, 06:56:42 AM
I had low expectations going in to Sword of Sodan and Techno Cop, even thouh each time it was before any reviews had been published. In both cases I remember thinking "wow, this is even worse than I expected".
Imagine racing down the stairs on Xmas morning and opening that new Genesis game and it's...Sword of Sodan. It was like my parents were punishing me.
The game looked so cool in the screenshots but was such a turd.
My vote for worse-than-I-expected was EVERY arcade-to-PC port in the late 80's/early 90's. We used to play the PC port of Double Dragon in EGA. I fired that thing up in DosBox a while back and literally have no clue how I was able to derive fun out of that game as a kid.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 22, 2013, 07:22:41 AM
I had low expectations going in to Sword of Sodan and Techno Cop, even thouh each time it was before any reviews had been published. In both cases I remember thinking "wow, this is even worse than I expected".
Imagine racing down the stairs on Xmas morning and opening that new Genesis game and it's...Sword of Sodan. It was like my parents were punishing me.
The game looked so cool in the screenshots but was such a turd.
My vote for worse-than-I-expected was EVERY arcade-to-PC port in the late 80's/early 90's. We used to play the PC port of Double Dragon in EGA. I fired that thing up in DosBox a while back and literally have no clue how I was able to derive fun out of that game as a kid.
This is so true. The screenshots for arcade-PC ports would look decent*, but the actual games were often horrendous (scrolling, refresh, controls, lag, etc.)
*Of course, the publisher only put the nicest looking screenshots on package...unless you had the best video/sound card, you were never quite sure what you would end up with.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: jeffhlewis on August 22, 2013, 02:21:48 PM
I had low expectations going in to Sword of Sodan and Techno Cop, even thouh each time it was before any reviews had been published. In both cases I remember thinking "wow, this is even worse than I expected".
Imagine racing down the stairs on Xmas morning and opening that new Genesis game and it's...Sword of Sodan. It was like my parents were punishing me.
The game looked so cool in the screenshots but was such a turd.
My vote for worse-than-I-expected was EVERY arcade-to-PC port in the late 80's/early 90's. We used to play the PC port of Double Dragon in EGA. I fired that thing up in DosBox a while back and literally have no clue how I was able to derive fun out of that game as a kid.
This is so true. The screenshots for arcade-PC ports would look decent*, but the actual games were often horrendous (scrolling, refresh, controls, lag, etc.)
*Of course, the publisher only put the nicest looking screenshots on package...unless you had the best video/sound card, you were never quite sure what you would end up with.
For reference:
EGA Double Dragon:
Sword of Sodan:
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: TheClash603 on August 22, 2013, 03:27:59 PM
I never had a PC growing up, I always had an Apple II C+. I will say that the arcade ports were pretty awesome on that thing. I especially liked playing Bad Dudes and Victory Road.
Is my judgement clouded by nostalgia, or were Apple II ports better than PC ports back in the day?
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Mishran on August 23, 2013, 03:57:07 AM
The PC port of Double Dragon 2 was worse than the first. Think that is bad, try the Bad Dudes PC game. Back of the box showed arcade quality graphics. What a let down.
Talk about lousy PC games... anyone ever play Blood 2? What a joke.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: jeffhlewis on August 23, 2013, 07:02:52 AM
The PC port of Double Dragon 2 was worse than the first. Think that is bad, try the Bad Dudes PC game. Back of the box showed arcade quality graphics. What a let down.
Talk about lousy PC games... anyone ever play Blood 2? What a joke.
Yup I had DD2 and it was almost unplayable - it ran at like 5fps. I also had Robocop (which actually wasn't that bad), the Megaman port by Hi-tech expressions (again not terrible surprisingly), Capcom's Trojan (garbage), Dragon's Lair (barf) and a bunch of others.
On the flipside I also had Silpheed, Thexder and Zeliard - all badass Game Arts titles that Sierra published for the US PC market that wound up in my local bargain bin. Best $5 I ever spent.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: vestcoat on August 23, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Yeah. Bought it cart-only for $15 at a used kids' clothing store in '90. It sucked at first, but after playing it for an hour and I started having fun (today I would never have the patience, but back then I only owned six games). Got through it with one of Jeff Rovin's picture-less books. OLD SCHOOL.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esadajr on August 23, 2013, 10:27:32 AM
Megaman 3 for PC. I knew it was going to be bad but not that bad. Just (censored) sucks
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Mishran on August 23, 2013, 09:08:48 PM
Ninja Gaiden for PC. Lol
Graphics were shameful, but the game was a port of the arcade rather than the NES version. Controls weren't half bad and the game was actually moderately amusing.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: vestcoat on August 24, 2013, 04:44:06 AM
edit: wrong thread
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 24, 2013, 07:15:33 AM
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: wildfruit on August 24, 2013, 07:42:40 AM
transbot for master system it has 2 levels that just repeat it never ends
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 24, 2013, 08:26:59 AM
I knew that Time Soldiers for SMS wasn't going to be like the awesome arcade game, but when I finally got Time Soldiers SMS I was like, "WTF is this?" Because it really had nothing to do with the arcade game and was just a sad, sad game. I would have been OK with a generic home port but it is simply RUDE and disrespectful to attach "Time Soldiers" to the damn SMS cart.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Mishran on August 24, 2013, 08:41:40 AM
I brought this up before once upon a time, but has anyone ever did a comparison of the NES and SMS versions of Rampage? Shows just how much more capable the master system was compared to the NES. NES makes the eyes bleed after playing the SMS version.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: Black Tiger on August 24, 2013, 09:22:08 AM
I brought this up before once upon a time, but has anyone ever did a comparison of the NES and SMS versions of Rampage? Shows just how much more capable the master system was compared to the NES. NES makes the eyes bleed after playing the SMS version.
The SMS version also has great FM sound.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: lukester on August 24, 2013, 11:05:05 AM
I knew that Time Soldiers for SMS wasn't going to be like the awesome arcade game, but when I finally got Time Soldiers SMS I was like, "WTF is this?" Because it really had nothing to do with the arcade game and was just a sad, sad game. I would have been OK with a generic home port but it is simply RUDE and disrespectful to attach "Time Soldiers" to the damn SMS cart.
Similar to Ikari Warriors on NES? Silly ADK and SNK.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on August 25, 2013, 03:43:08 AM
I knew that Time Soldiers for SMS wasn't going to be like the awesome arcade game, but when I finally got Time Soldiers SMS I was like, "WTF is this?" Because it really had nothing to do with the arcade game and was just a sad, sad game. I would have been OK with a generic home port but it is simply RUDE and disrespectful to attach "Time Soldiers" to the damn SMS cart.
Similar to Ikari Warriors on NES? Silly ADK and SNK.
Yes, except that even arcade Ikari Warriors was clunky (the NES port is abominable, though).
Time Soldiers, on the other hand, played great (nice control, not perfect, but it felt good)...so they took a nice arcade game but made it poppy for SMS port. Every aspect of SMS is crappier.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgsad.png)
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: vestcoat on August 27, 2013, 02:01:08 PM
Having played the port before the arcade version, I love SMS Time Soldiers. I bought it because it was the only 2-player game at Toy R Us in 1993 that wasn't Shanghai. The flicker sucks, but it's a good game with a good difficulty curve. I recently played the arcade version on MAME and felt right at home. It feels like the same game. Of course, I've never experienced the pivot stick action...
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: retroguy on September 06, 2013, 03:04:23 AM
Wayne's World for the SNES. I knew it would be bad, but I thought it might be enjoyable in a so-bad-it's-good cheesy b-movie kind of way (like Virtual Hydlide for the Saturn). No. It was just horrible. I played through the entire game and I can honestly say it's one of the worst I've ever experienced, possibly THE worst. Avoid at all costs!
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: BigusSchmuck on September 06, 2013, 04:30:02 PM
Stalin VS Martians enough said. About the only redeeming factor is the music. Well maybe if you like Russian Techno...
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on September 15, 2013, 08:19:26 AM
NES: Deadly Towers(what a steaming pile of shit!) And City Connection.
And the obvious.... worst pack-in ever.... Keith Courage!!!
Holy Cr@p! I actually like City Connection! I know it can get frustrating/challenging, but it really grew on me (back in NES era) and I often go back to it a few times a year. STILL HAVENT BEATEN IT, but that will come in due time.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: wildfruit on September 20, 2013, 08:28:31 AM
sim farm was better than i expected
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: turboswimbz on September 20, 2013, 12:40:27 PM
And the obvious.... worst pack-in ever.... Keith Courage!!!
You sir are wrong.
Well that's my opinion. I think it is a glaring example of why the turbo failed in america, which boils down to extremely poor marketing and being completely out of touch with the target audience. To sell our system let's pack in a mediocre platformer based on a Japanese animé/manga character that Americans know nothing about. Brilliant! Why not pack in Bonk?
Don't even get me started on the shitty American box art! What were they thinking!?
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: VenomMacbeth on September 20, 2013, 05:53:33 PM
And the obvious.... worst pack-in ever.... Keith Courage!!!
You sir are wrong.
Well that's my opinion. I think it is a glaring example of why the turbo failed in america, which boils down to extremely poor marketing and being completely out of touch with the target audience. To sell our system let's pack in a mediocre platformer based on a Japanese animé/manga character that Americans know nothing about. Brilliant! Why not pack in Bonk?
Don't even get me started on the shitty American box art! What were they thinking!?
I happen to agree. No matter what you make of Keith Courage, there were far better games that would have been both more fun and a better example of the TG-16's capabilities. Bonk? Super Star Soldier? Fantasy Zone? All of those are Hudson/NEC Avenue titles, which make sense as pack-ins and are far better games.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on September 21, 2013, 12:31:28 AM
And the obvious.... worst pack-in ever.... Keith Courage!!!
You sir are wrong.
Well that's my opinion. I think it is a glaring example of why the turbo failed in america, which boils down to extremely poor marketing and being completely out of touch with the target audience. To sell our system let's pack in a mediocre platformer based on a Japanese animé/manga character that Americans know nothing about. Brilliant! Why not pack in Bonk?
Don't even get me started on the shitty American box art! What were they thinking!?
And the obvious.... worst pack-in ever.... Keith Courage!!!
You sir are wrong.
Well that's my opinion. I think it is a glaring example of why the turbo failed in america, which boils down to extremely poor marketing and being completely out of touch with the target audience. To sell our system let's pack in a mediocre platformer based on a Japanese animé/manga character that Americans know nothing about. Brilliant! Why not pack in Bonk?
Don't even get me started on the shitty American box art! What were they thinking!?
I happen to agree. No matter what you make of Keith Courage, there were far better games that would have been both more fun and a better example of the TG-16's capabilities. Bonk? Super Star Soldier? Fantasy Zone? All of those are Hudson/NEC Avenue titles, which make sense as pack-ins and are far better games.
I am not a big fan of Keith Courage (it had potential to be an awesome game if it was less monotonous, increased variety of stage design, overworld was more engaging and not so boring...the underworld was strongest point of game, IMHO, but suffered from monotony) but you guys are listing games that WERE NOT YET RELEASED.
Go back and look at the list of PCE games that had been released by Fall 1988-Spring 1989...
Personally, I know that many folks back in 1989 were NOT big fans if shoot-em-ups and would not have been particularly impressed/excited about Fantasy Zone...a sports game or platformer had far more appeal, but Nintendo's SMB set a precedent for action/platformer genre.
The origin of Keith Courage (Wataru) is moot—nobody expected North American audiences to recognize or care about the original IP.
The problem with Keith Courage is that it simply didn't grab you by the balls like Altered Beast (a crappy game that had bad-ass aesthetics, in parts) or SMB (addictive as hell, solid platformer).
SHOULD THEY HAVE CHANGED THE PACK-IN LATER? Well, they should have considered this and done something sooner (if only to keep things "fresh"). Perhaps it would have helped. They did, later, add Bonk as a bonus pack-in...but that was much later...after Bonk had sold pretty well...
ALSO: NEC wanted to sell software and make $$$...so giving away Bonk's Adventure (or any top bill game) as soon as it was localized would have hurt them financially. Sega didn't pack in Sonic until AFTER they sold a billion of them.
ALSO: The graphics and action in Keith's underworld was pretty slick and a perfect showcase for TG-16...I would love to have seen a massively revamped REMIX of Wataru for the States. The problem is that it would have required too much work, and might still end up worse than what we got.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 21, 2013, 01:17:39 AM
SHOULD THEY HAVE CHANGED THE PACK-IN LATER? Well, they should have considered this and done something sooner (if only to keep things "fresh"). Perhaps it would have helped. They did, later, add Bonk as a bonus pack-in...but that was much later...after Bonk had sold pretty well...
ALSO: NEC wanted to sell software and make $$$...so giving away Bonk's Adventure (or any top bill game) as soon as it was localized would have hurt them financially. Sega didn't pack in Sonic until AFTER they sold a billion of them.
ALSO: The graphics and action in Keith's underworld was pretty slick and a perfect showcase for TG-16...I would love to have seen a massively revamped REMIX of Wataru for the States. The problem is that it would have required too much work, and might still end up worse than what we got.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
Part of the problem with changing the pack-in later was a strategic mistake. NEC overproduced the TurboGrafx 16 stock hardware back in 1989. Something like 850,000 units were produced and took a long time to sell through. That means they had hundreds of thousands of unsold inventory packed with Keith Courage that they couldn't do much with until they sold through it.
They started by doing mail order deals "Buy a TurboGrafx 16 now and mail in your receipt to NEC for one of these select titles".
Eventually they had to open some of the TG16 boxes and have employees stick Bonk's Adventure (and later Bonk's Revenge) into some of the unsold system boxes and put a sticker on them.
The fact that NEC over-ordered the TG16 to start with left them with far less flexibility than Sega had with the Genesis early on. Sega had no problem changing the pack-in two years later from Altered Beast to Sonic in part because they had a smaller inventory of unsold hardware and had mostly sold through it.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: toymachine78 on September 21, 2013, 01:33:19 AM
But at least Americans were familiar with altered beast and SMB from the arcade. In hindsight yes AB is a crap game, but as kids we went complete ape shit nuts over it in the arcade. So when the genesis released with it, it was like hoooooly shit! Gotta get the genesis!
Another game we went nuts over in the arcade.... R-type.... why not pack that in? Any big name arcade title would have given it more cred with the kids that lived in the arcades of the time. Sure Keith courage did a good Job of showing the turbos color palette, ability to generate large sprites etc, but it sucked for all the reasons you listed. One thing you forgot is that it had that cutsie anime thing going on which was unappealing to American kids. Keith looked like a big puss fairy, especially with the over world music backing him up. I want my hero to be heroic, not some anime dude that looks like he's stuck in puberty lol. I'm fine with that now cause I realize it is there animation art style, but at the time america had not been exposed to anime, so it was just unappealing.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on September 21, 2013, 02:23:13 AM
SHOULD THEY HAVE CHANGED THE PACK-IN LATER? Well, they should have considered this and done something sooner (if only to keep things "fresh"). Perhaps it would have helped. They did, later, add Bonk as a bonus pack-in...but that was much later...after Bonk had sold pretty well...
ALSO: NEC wanted to sell software and make $$$...so giving away Bonk's Adventure (or any top bill game) as soon as it was localized would have hurt them financially. Sega didn't pack in Sonic until AFTER they sold a billion of them.
ALSO: The graphics and action in Keith's underworld was pretty slick and a perfect showcase for TG-16...I would love to have seen a massively revamped REMIX of Wataru for the States. The problem is that it would have required too much work, and might still end up worse than what we got.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
Part of the problem with changing the pack-in later was a strategic mistake. NEC overproduced the TurboGrafx 16 stock hardware back in 1989. Something like 850,000 units were produced and took a long time to sell through. That means they had hundreds of thousands of unsold inventory packed with Keith Courage that they couldn't do much with until they sold through it.
They started by doing mail order deals "Buy a TurboGrafx 16 now and mail in your receipt to NEC for one of these select titles".
Eventually they had to open some of the TG16 boxes and have employees stick Bonk's Adventure (and later Bonk's Revenge) into some of the unsold system boxes and put a sticker on them.
The fact that NEC over-ordered the TG16 to start with left them with far less flexibility than Sega had with the Genesis early on. Sega had no problem changing the pack-in two years later from Altered Beast to Sonic in part because they had a smaller inventory of unsold hardware and had mostly sold through it.
Absolutely. And, sadly, mail-in incentives SUCK compared to instant-gratification-walk-home-with-game-now pack-ins offered by Sega & Nintendo.
Mail-in offers are more abstract, more hassle, and, let's be honest—companies often took a long time to fulfill main-in offers.
A rational adult purchasing a system for himself would like the mail-in.
Everyone else is buying console to please somebody, NOW, and that's the power of the pack-in. PLAY IT NOW.
But at least Americans were familiar with altered beast and SMB from the arcade. In hindsight yes AB is a crap game, but as kids we went complete ape shit nuts over it in the arcade. So when the genesis released with it, it was like hoooooly shit! Gotta get the genesis!
Another game we went nuts over in the arcade.... R-type.... why not pack that in? Any big name arcade title would have given it more cred with the kids that lived in the arcades of the time. Sure Keith courage did a good Job of showing the turbos color palette, ability to generate large sprites etc, but it sucked for all the reasons you listed. One thing you forgot is that it had that cutsie anime thing going on which was unappealing to American kids. Keith looked like a big puss fairy, especially with the over world music backing him up. I want my hero to be heroic, not some anime dude that looks like he's stuck in puberty lol. I'm fine with that now cause I realize it is there animation art style, but at the time america had not been exposed to anime, so it was just unappealing.
First, I just want say that I am simply having fun arguing against your ideas, but I don't think you are necessarily wrong. I liked your counter-points. I think a lot of people would agree with you. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png) That said...
I hear you, I just feel that most folks wouldn't have been thrilled with an DATED, CHALLENGING SHOOT-EM-UP that had already appeared on the SMS.
I'm a shoot-em-up fan (I bought TG-16 for Blazing Lazers), but Keith was better as a pack-in than R-Type. WHY? Your typical 1989 gamer would have quickly grown frustrated with R-Type (never bothering to understand its unique mechanics with the ORB OF POWER)...Blazing Lazers, while lacking any "brand recognition", was a much more accessible shooter, exclusive to platform, and one that TRULY showed off the TG-16's sound and graphics.
ALSO, R-Type was more expensive for NEC to manufacture (this was early when HuCARD's were not even pushing 4MEGABITPOWERSUPREME...NEC would be even more reluctant to pack-in an expensive game when a cheaper alternative existed.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: toymachine78 on September 21, 2013, 03:26:46 AM
OK.... Blazing Lazers then... Anything but Keith Courage!!!! Lol =P~
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 21, 2013, 06:05:44 AM
And the obvious.... worst pack-in ever.... Keith Courage!!!
You sir are wrong.
Well that's my opinion. I think it is a glaring example of why the turbo failed in america, which boils down to extremely poor marketing and being completely out of touch with the target audience. To sell our system let's pack in a mediocre platformer based on a Japanese animé/manga character that Americans know nothing about. Brilliant! Why not pack in Bonk?
Don't even get me started on the shitty American box art! What were they thinking!?
I don't think that you actually thought this through and have just been looking for an opportunity to let everyone know how much you hate Keith Courage.
You're saying that Keith Courage had terrible box art, a "fairy" for a character, you and your friends were interested in arcade ports of game you had already played... yet you still found the game to be actually worse than you expected... even though you also say that you now appreciate the art style?
I'm guessing that you didn't learn much about the TG-16 until long after launch and just picked up internet opinions about how pack-ins that aren't based on the circumstances. Sonic and SMB3 would have been a much better pack-ins for Genesis and NES a launch, but only if you don't really think about it. Just the same, do you really believe that Trevor Mcfur, Lights Out, Hang On, Las Vegas Poker & Blackjack, Combat, California Games, Mario Tennis are all better pack-ins?
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: toymachine78 on September 21, 2013, 10:17:11 AM
I don't think that you actually thought this through and have just been looking for an opportunity to let everyone know how much you hate Keith Courage.
You're saying that Keith Courage had terrible box art, a "fairy" for a character, you and your friends were interested in arcade ports of game you had already played... yet you still found the game to be actually worse than you expected... even though you also say that you now appreciate the art style?
I'm guessing that you didn't learn much about the TG-16 until long after launch and just picked up internet opinions about how pack-ins that aren't based on the circumstances. Sonic and SMB3 would have been a much better pack-ins for Genesis and NES a launch, but only if you don't really think about it. Just the same, do you really believe that Trevor Mcfur, Lights Out, Hang On, Las Vegas Poker & Blackjack, Combat, California Games, Mario Tennis are all better pack-ins? [/quote]
Uhhhh... yeah... whatever you think dude.... wow some of you sure are sensitive about poor little ol ' Keith lol
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: turboswimbz on September 21, 2013, 12:53:37 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I see now.
FINAL VERDICT: ESTEBAN SHOULD SUGGEST CHINNNA WARRIOR PRINCESS AS THE PACK IN
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: toymachine78 on September 21, 2013, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: toymachine78 link=topic=15228.msg314451#msg314451 date=137979823I'm guessing that you didn't learn much about the TG-16 until long after launch[/quote
Lol! Hahahhaha. Ahhhhh. You sir are wrong again
BTW... what u quoted was not from me, but was black tigers comments quoted in my post. I screwed up the repost, so it wasn't blue.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: esteban on September 21, 2013, 07:49:10 PM
FINAL VERDICT: China Warrior should have been original pack-in. Thanks to all who participated.
Title: Re: Games that you knew were bad but were worse than you expected.
Post by: VenomMacbeth on September 21, 2013, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: toymachine78 link=topic=15228.msg314451#msg314451 date=137979823I'm guessing that you didn't learn much about the TG-16 until long after launch[/quote