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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Keith Courage on December 29, 2017, 02:52:38 PM
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Keith Courage on December 29, 2017, 02:52:38 PM
I was wondering for others what games you don't like for the Turbo where most other people sings its praises.
For example. Forgotten Worlds
I don't know why but I just can't get into this game. So many talk about it like it's one of Capcoms best but it just doesn't do anything for me and I don't know why. It looks amazing, sounds amazing, but I get absolutely nothing out of it. Maybe it's because I didn't own this one on the Turbo growing up. I do like Side Arms though so it's not the style of shooter.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: seieienbu on December 29, 2017, 04:20:37 PM
I respect a lot about the game, but I can't play Alien Crush to save my life. The art, music, the overall mood are fantastic. But every time I try to play it I think "Why not just play Devil Crush?" and move on. I think that Devil Crush is just so superior in every way that I just can't enjoy playing Alien Crush.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: gex on December 29, 2017, 05:02:36 PM
Legendary Axe II comes to mind, although I haven't played it in a few years. Maybe i'll check it out again soon and have a new experience. Just remember the backgrounds all being dungey, and didn't hold well compared to the 1st game.
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on December 29, 2017, 07:15:32 PM
I wrote a long post, fell asleep, and now it’s gone.
Goddammit.
Anyway, I think Sidearms and Section Z are better games than Forgotten Worlds because the awkward controls (even with a three button controller) will never seem as satisfying to me to play as the immediacy of the controls in Sidearms/Section Z.
However, I have a complaint about Sidearms, too, and it’s a vestige of Capcom’s silly power up system from 1942—I hate cycling through weapons. I just find it annoying. Now, this doesn’t stop me from playing 194X or Sidearms...but the problem is *not* the cycling itself, it’s just that there are too many steps in the cycle and it is annoying to worry about ONE ERRANT SHOT forcing you to start the cycle over.
Konami is guilty of this in the Twin Bee series (Stinger!)... those goddamn bells are so annoying.
So Detana! Twin Bee is a game I should like A LOT (since I loved Stinger for NES, despite the damn bells)... but, for PCE, I just find myself grabbing another HuCARD instead of sticking with Twin Bee.
So, I really like Sidearms (BOTH the HuCARD *and* the CD are must-haves, as far as I am concerned)...
DETANA! TB: But I am indifferent to Detana! Twin Bee even though I love Stinger (I really love that stupid game, I find it quite charming).
And now...
I could care less for fighting games...so... I guess that doesn’t count for this thread...
PARANOIA: BUT I SHOULD LIKE PARANOIA for TG-16, since it is a shootemup and has “Naxat” attached to it..but, damn, this game has never really impressed me.
I love the “surreal” concepts and aesthetics they were going for (moreso in some stages rather than others), but as a shootemup it is mediocre...it’s OK, but I just had much higher expectations about it (back in the day) and I guess I never got past that initial disappointment.
KAZE KIRI: Expectations vs Reality have ruined another game for me ...I want to like Kaze Kiri, but it just didn’t click with me. And I am very forgiving (I like Vigilante, after all). So I sold the silly game years ago. But, I wish I still had it to give it another chance. So is this another instance of “sour grapes”?
I may be unfairly dissing Kaze Kiri, but too bad.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: GoldenWheels on December 30, 2017, 01:35:16 AM
Legendary Axe II comes to mind, although I haven't played it in a few years. Maybe i'll check it out again soon and have a new experience. Just remember the backgrounds all being dungey, and didn't hold well compared to the 1st game.
I'd likely choose this one too. Dark graphics, removes the cool mechanic of the first one, and is balls hard/cheap near the end. If only it was more like the first.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: turboswimbz on December 30, 2017, 01:46:28 AM
I really don't enjoy Gate of Thunder...
I don't know why, I love other shooters like it, but after I die once or twice, I just move on, it never holds me.
I mean it's got great music, graphics and I know many people love it, I just can't get into it.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: EmperorIng on December 30, 2017, 01:51:36 AM
KAZE KIRI: Expectations vs Reality have ruined another game for me ...I want to like Kaze Kiri, but it just didn’t click with me. And I am very forgiving (I like Vigilante, after all). So I sold the silly game years ago. But, I wish I still had it to give it another chance. So is this an insatiable if “sour grapes”?
Don't even need to give it another chance. Vigilante has more variety than Kaze Kiri, and is 1/3rd as long as the game. You can play Vigilante three times and pretend you are playing a more action-packed Kaze Kiri.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: deubeul on December 30, 2017, 03:29:03 AM
I don't know why, I love other shooters like it, but after I die once or twice, I just move on, it never holds me.
I mean it's got great music, graphics and I know many people love it, I just can't get into it.
Feel the same. I always just thought I sucked at gates, but it seems other people feel the same way. Really dislike it in shooters where you die from touching the walls. Probably why I never gave Aero Blasters much of a chance.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: turboswimbz on December 30, 2017, 09:01:40 AM
I don't know why, I love other shooters like it, but after I die once or twice, I just move on, it never holds me.
I mean it's got great music, graphics and I know many people love it, I just can't get into it.
Dis you try hard or devil modes?
General just on easy. I suck at this game which doesn't help and yeah like it's mentioned touching the walls gets to me. I just never stick with it. I get to level 3 but that's about it. Aeroblasters is another game now that's mentioned too that I struggle to really get into. I like to pop em in every now and then though.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: nodtveidt on December 31, 2017, 03:03:07 AM
The Legendary Axe. People go on and on about how great it is but I did not play this back in the day so I'm not nostalgic about it. I did not play it until many years later, and immediately saw it for the terribly-flawed mediocre game it really is.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Medic_wheat on December 31, 2017, 03:31:12 AM
Magica Chase.
I played and own the PCE version.
It’s an okay game. However I found it not very challenging and I SUCK at shooters.
So for my to say it felt easy I can only imagine what people who are vastly more capable at shooters must think.
Also it’s short. And not oh I picked the easy version and the game stopped is way asking me to play again but oh it’s over?
R-Type I&II felt more challangjng and meatier to game content. And it was one of the first few games to come out I believe.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: lukester on December 31, 2017, 03:56:45 AM
The Legendary Axe. People go on and on about how great it is but I did not play this back in the day so I'm not nostalgic about it. I did not play it until many years later, and immediately saw it for the terribly-flawed mediocre game it really is.
If the legendary axe is mediocre, then castlevania on nes is terrible.
I love the axe and knowing when to use it. The full power strike is incredible. CRACK!!!
I’m not big on military madness. If there was an enemy turn skip feature, those hardass later levels wouldn’t be as frustrating and long.
Dynastic hero is a lame port. The soundtrack is terrible and the lack of parallax really hurts the graphics. No new content to balance out the bad.
Darius plus is a classic but super Darius 2 is messy. That lack of resolution increases the difficulty tenfold. They compensate with a large amount of lives and an optional weapon keep mode. Just a mess
Never liked dragon spirit or ordyne
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: lukester on December 31, 2017, 04:03:21 AM
May shock some that games I really like are bravoman, wonder momo and altered beast
Samurai ghost is a classic, but I hate the first one.
Kaze kiri is a massive waste of potential. Represents what I hate about some of the games on the pc engine cd add-on. Substitute style for substance
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: turboswimbz on December 31, 2017, 04:06:41 AM
If the legendary axe is mediocre, then castlevania on nes is terrible.
It is terrible... that's another game I didn't play back in the day so there's no nostalgia attached. Hell, the first few Castlevania games in general were pretty terrible. They established standards for the series, but their gameplay is awful.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Gypsy on December 31, 2017, 05:32:30 AM
If the legendary axe is mediocre, then castlevania on nes is terrible.
It is terrible... that's another game I didn't play back in the day so there's no nostalgia attached. Hell, the first few Castlevania games in general were pretty terrible. They established standards for the series, but their gameplay is awful.
Just curious on your thoughts of Castlevania 3 then.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on December 31, 2017, 07:31:16 PM
Dynastic hero is a lame port. The soundtrack is terrible and the lack of parallax really hurts the graphics. No new content to balance out the bad.
Never liked dragon spirit or ordyne
Agree very much about Dynastic Hero. I tried to play it recently but ended up getting bored and moved on.
Dragon Spirit and Ordyne are alright though. Not masterpieces but they are also cheapies so they are fine for what they are imo.
Man, Dynastic Hero has one of my favorite game soundtracks of all time. It's a great game, though I have nostalgia for it, as I played it probably 15 years before I played Wonderboy in Monsterworld. It is a shame that there's missing paralax & a missing boss. Plus, the heat wave's from the hearths are gone, which would also be easy to pull off.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 01, 2018, 12:12:50 AM
NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION: I will not defend the games whose reputations are being besmirched and besotted in this thread.
This will save me from arguing with NODTVEDIT about the collision detection in Legendary Axe (every few years this comes up).
HAPPY NEW YEAR NOD!
:)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: gilbert on January 01, 2018, 12:55:08 AM
About Dynastic Hero, I never owned the games but I've played them back-to-back before, which I personally prefer the PCE version massively much to the MD version.
Neither of them were bad and of course the MD version was the original, but I found the PCE version heavily improved in the graphical and audio departments (okay not as heavily in the graphical side).
I like the red book tracks more than the FM tunes and the new boss designs are more interesting(those in the MD version are "standard" Wonder Boy stuff). Also, the additional animated opening and ending (together with the vocal ending theme) are the main reasons to go for the PCE version.
I think the fairy/whatever companions are more varied in their ability too, whereas in the MD version they are more or less the same.
Personally I found the missing parallax scrolling not so important here, as it's not really ground-breaking but of course it'd be nice to have some of these included.
The major let-down of the PCE version, though, is that there is no visual indication of the equipments on your character (I think only the weapon is changed, another game suffering from this is Princess Minerva, that in the original PC version the equipments of the characters are reflected in the walking characters on the field and in combat). It may be due to hardware difference that the PCE is more powerful in displaying larger sprites whereas the MD being more capable in displaying a large number of small sprites, thus there are more games with overlapping sprites (and more games with segmented bosses, and "oddities" like Ernest Evans), though I think it's more due to the laziness of the developers.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 01, 2018, 02:10:26 AM
About Dynastic Hero, I never owned the games but I've played them back-to-back before, which I personally prefer the PCE version massively much to the MD version.
Neither of them were bad and of course the MD version was the original, but I found the PCE version heavily improved in the graphical and audio departments (okay not as heavily in the graphical side).
I like the red book tracks more than the FM tunes and the new boss designs are more interesting(those in the MD version are "standard" Wonder Boy stuff). Also, the additional animated opening and ending (together with the vocal ending theme) are the main reasons to go for the PCE version.
I think the fairy/whatever companions are more varied in their ability too, whereas in the MD version they are more or less the same.
Personally I found the missing parallax scrolling not so important here, as it's not really ground-breaking but of course it'd be nice to have some of these included.
The major let-down of the PCE version, though, is that there is no visual indication of the equipments on your character (I think only the weapon is changed, another game suffering from this is Princess Minerva, that in the original PC version the equipments of the characters are reflected in the walking characters on the field and in combat). It may be due to hardware difference that the PCE is more powerful in displaying larger sprites whereas the MD being more capable in displaying a large number of small sprites, thus there are more games with overlapping sprites (and more games with segmented bosses, and "oddities" like Ernest Evans), though I think it's more due to the laziness of the developers.
I concur, but, since I made a sacred New Year’s Resolution *not* to defend the honor of unjustly-condemned games, I must not comment any further.
ASIDE: Thank you for defending the venerable Dynastic Hero. Did you see what the heathens in this thread said about...
:)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: nodtveidt on January 01, 2018, 03:22:18 AM
About Dynastic Hero, I never owned the games but I've played them back-to-back before, which I personally prefer the PCE version massively much to the MD version.
Neither of them were bad and of course the MD version was the original, but I found the PCE version heavily improved in the graphical and audio departments (okay not as heavily in the graphical side).
I like the red book tracks more than the FM tunes and the new boss designs are more interesting(those in the MD version are "standard" Wonder Boy stuff). Also, the additional animated opening and ending (together with the vocal ending theme) are the main reasons to go for the PCE version.
I don’t think we played the same game.
I can’t remember a single song being good except the beach song. Everything else was poor. They didn’t even include the classic monster land final castle theme!! If tatsujin wasn’t on the Facebook groups he’d be telling us all how the “great nick wood composed a masterpiece”
All the bosses looked weird and out of place. And if Paranoia is correct then missing a boss is a big deal. The final boss was also neutered since the buzzsaw was removed.
This wasn’t just simple parallax. The snowy and underwater levels looked absolutely stunning. I was appalled when I tried the pce port, these beautiful scenes looked so flat and empty.
A vocal ending? Eh. I think we are reaching for straws here.
Is dynastic hero a bad game? No it’s fantastic. But there’s practically no reason to play it over the original unless you’re curious about the differences. For a community that puts pride into the system’s quality ports, they cut dynastic hero too much slack.
Happy new year!
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: gilbert on January 01, 2018, 04:07:31 AM
Probably not, as I'd only play the Japanese version, though the difference could be minimal given that they probably spent minimal effort in localisation, and obviously the vocal song in the ending would be replaced by an instrumental one in the US version.
Quote
I can’t remember a single song being good except the beach song. Everything else was poor. They didn’t even include the classic monster land final castle theme!! If tatsujin wasn’t on the Facebook groups he’d be telling us all how the “great nick wood composed a masterpiece”
It's just personally taste, and I couldn't really get into the tinny sounds of the FM synth of the MD. Whether the musics are poor is quite subjective. And for the classic tracks, since I'm not familiar with the Wonderboy games I'm not sure how great they could be. The reason for changing (some of?) these music is obvious though, as the PCE version is not a Wonderboy game they probably wanted to strip as much references out as possible.
Quote
All the bosses looked weird and out of place. And if Paranoia is correct then missing a boss is a big deal. The final boss was also neutered since the buzzsaw was removed.
Again this is more personal taste, and for the buzzsaw thing, it's misblamed, since the PCE version is a port of the original Japanese MD version, which doesn't have it. Personally I prefer easily beatable games to too challenging ones, so it's a blessing (to me) to have the game follow the easier version. I'm not sure whether the PCE version is missing a boss though as I couldn't remember.
Quote
This wasn’t just simple parallax. The snowy and underwater levels looked absolutely stunning. I was appalled when I tried the pce port, these beautiful scenes looked so flat and empty.
Maybe my memory is hazy, but as far as I remember they're not that special, at least not technically groundbreaking, so I don't miss them much (though it can be more due to personal prejudice; isn't this more the purpose of this thread?) but indeed Alfa System was lazy here, doubtlessly. Anyway, to each his own.
Quote
A vocal ending? Eh. I think we are reaching for straws here.
Yes. At least in the version I played.
Quote
Is dynastic hero a bad game? No it’s fantastic. But there’s practically no reason to play it over the original unless you’re curious about the differences.
There is a reason if you only have a PCE, not a MD, like me. But yeah, I played both just for comparisons, and I still choose the PCE version over the original, though probably more due to personal bias.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 01, 2018, 07:54:44 AM
I will not add fuel to the fire, since I vowed to follow my solemn Resolution, but some folks would argue that the character design/sprites in Dynastic Hero actually are quite nice and hold up very well compared to Wonderboy roots (and this is coming from folks who *love* Wonderboy).
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: csgx1 on January 01, 2018, 07:56:35 AM
Interesting difference of opinions in this thread.
One game that I don't really care for is Star Parodier. It's a beautiful looking game but the cute style, being too easy and the voices are kind of irritating to me. It seems most cute shooters are not my thing except maybe Fantasy Zone.
It’s an okay game. However I found it not very challenging and I SUCK at shooters.
So for my to say it felt easy I can only imagine what people who are vastly more capable at shooters must think.
Also it’s short. And not oh I picked the easy version and the game stopped is way asking me to play again but oh it’s over?
R-Type I&II felt more challangjng and meatier to game content. And it was one of the first few games to come out I believe.
I agree, I don't really care for MC. I played through the PCE version probably about 15+ years ago. From what I remember the challenge level seemed okay, but was kind of boring. Probably just the cute style shooters don't really appeal to me. I definitely prefer R-Type or just about any other spaceship shooter.
The Legendary Axe. People go on and on about how great it is but I did not play this back in the day so I'm not nostalgic about it. I did not play it until many years later, and immediately saw it for the terribly-flawed mediocre game it really is.
If the legendary axe is mediocre, then castlevania on nes is terrible.
I love the axe and knowing when to use it. The full power strike is incredible. CRACK!!!
I’m not big on military madness. If there was an enemy turn skip feature, those hardass later levels wouldn’t be as frustrating and long. ...
I never played Legendary Axe until about a couple years ago and it ended up becoming one of my favorites. I agree, the full power strike is really awesome and satisfying when it connects.
Military Madness is one of my all time favorites but I do agree there should have been an enemy turn skip option. They probably didn't include it so the player won't miss any of the enemies movements/attacks to understand the overall enemy strategy. I've just played through Neo Nectaris for the first time in the last few weeks and really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: nopepper on January 01, 2018, 04:02:11 PM
I think I should like Gunhed more than I do, but the first few levels really turn me off. Bumping up the difficulty helps in that regard, but then later levels are not as balanced as before. Still, it's a good game, so it only gets an (dis)honorable mention from me.
The one game series I feel I should like is Bonk. Great graphics, awesome music, responsive controls, lots of personality. But I just find the gameplay tedious and can't really ever get into a rhythm, so I usually play a couple of levels and move on.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: seieienbu on January 02, 2018, 03:07:04 PM
The one game series I feel I should like is Bonk. Great graphics, awesome music, responsive controls, lots of personality. But I just find the gameplay tedious and can't really ever get into a rhythm, so I usually play a couple of levels and move on.
There was a time when I was the same. At the tail end of the 32 bit era or maybe about when the Dreamcast was around I tried playing some turbo games again and couldn't get into Bonk at all. I mostly disliked Bonk for a while because it doesn't feel like there's as much movement happening compared to Mario World or Sonic games from the 16 bit era. Maybe it was that he can't straight up fly and there's no loops to run through or something. Or perhaps it was just me being annoyed at the system I got as a kid not getting as much support or respect as the two that came just afterward.
I played them again a few years later, however, and found them charming and delightful. I don't know what I was going on about as I find all 3 fun; they remind me of everything that I'd like a childhood adventure game to be. I would wager there was about a 5 year gap in between playing and disliking then playing and enjoying the games.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: grolt on January 02, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
The one game series I feel I should like is Bonk. Great graphics, awesome music, responsive controls, lots of personality. But I just find the gameplay tedious and can't really ever get into a rhythm, so I usually play a couple of levels and move on.
There was a time when I was the same. At the tail end of the 32 bit era or maybe about when the Dreamcast was around I tried playing some turbo games again and couldn't get into Bonk at all. I mostly disliked Bonk for a while because it doesn't feel like there's as much movement happening compared to Mario World or Sonic games from the 16 bit era. Maybe it was that he can't straight up fly and there's no loops to run through or something. Or perhaps it was just me being annoyed at the system I got as a kid not getting as much support or respect as the two that came just afterward.
I played them again a few years later, however, and found them charming and delightful. I don't know what I was going on about as I find all 3 fun; they remind me of everything that I'd like a childhood adventure game to be. I would wager there was about a 5 year gap in between playing and disliking then playing and enjoying the games.
I've always had a hard time warming to the BONK series too. I always revered it back in the day, and when I would play the odd level at a friend's house I'd like it, but like with nopepper, I could never really get a rhythm when playing the full game on my own. I'd like everything I was seeing - the assortment of characters with a lot of animation and personality (and cross-dressing!) and the very responsive control and collision detection, but yeah, I don't know, I'm always just kind of indifferent after a bit and wanting to stop and pop in something else. The Turbo was kind of platformer-starved, so I really should be grateful for the three Bonks, but I'm still not quite there yet. I'm sure in time I'll get sucked in.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: lukester on January 02, 2018, 04:09:47 PM
Bonk 2 is an outstanding game with an insane amount of replay value. There’s a buttload of secrets and the scoring system is really in depth. It definitely is too easy but then again, Sonic 2 lets you get a bazillion continues.
Bonk 1 is great fun but it was developed in 3 months. You can tell it’s a bit rushed but it has heart and fun.
Bonk 3 and super bonk were developed by a no name company, and both games have issues in different ways. Neither takes the series forward by much
Super bonk 2 takes the good stuff from bonk 2, mainly level design and collectibles, and vastly improves transformations. It even brings back mini bosses! If it weren’t for the lame final area, the lengthy bonus levels and some of the music I would put it at the top.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: turboswimbz on January 03, 2018, 12:59:53 AM
Bonk's revenge is the best in the series.
Play it and only it. it has the proper spinning and head butt. I also enjoy the story line here.
That is all.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Necromancer on January 03, 2018, 01:58:22 AM
I like too many games, even when most others dislike 'em. If it's something I don't particularly care for (like Deep Blue or Time Ball), I'm not alone with my distaste.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 03, 2018, 02:27:47 AM
I like too many games, even when most others dislike 'em. If it's something I don't particularly care for (like Deep Blue or Time Ball), I'm not alone with my distaste.
Following my New Year’s Resolution, I will not defend the unjustly and unfairly ridiculed Timeball, which is a solid puzzle game that is quite enjoyable and satisfying.
:)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Necromancer on January 03, 2018, 02:45:22 AM
My biggest problem with it is that I'm too dumb and slow to get more than two or three boards in.
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 03, 2018, 03:58:11 AM
My biggest problem with it is that I'm too dumb and slow to get more than two or three boards in.
I hear you.
I don’t actually like most “shuffle puzzle” games (physical or digital), but Timeball solves this problem by distracting me with the IMPENDING DOOM of a cracked ball. I don’t know why this changes things for me, but it is significant. It makes the game super-fun instead of frustrating.
A simple TIMER alone would not make a difference for me. The rolling ball of PERPETUAL DOOM is what makes it work.
I like too many games, even when most others dislike 'em. If it's something I don't particularly care for (like Deep Blue or Time Ball), I'm not alone with my distaste.
Following my New Year’s Resolution, I will not defend the unjustly and unfairly ridiculed Timeball, which is a solid puzzle game that is quite enjoyable and satisfying.
:)
You take TIMEBALL, I'll defend DEEP BLUE. I love the underwater setting, the huge sprites and the different kind of strategy that encourages you to be evasive rather than always on the attack. It's probably clouded partially by nostalgia of having owned it as a kid, but I still like to swim around in that world from time to time for some playthroughs. The endless loop of repeating levels after you finish the game proper is a drag, but I do like how classy the FIN death screen is, it's kind of like the ECCO games that way. Totally get the hate though, I know I've been shit on before for my opinion on DEEP BLUE, but I do legitimately like that game.
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 03, 2018, 05:38:24 AM
I like too many games, even when most others dislike 'em. If it's something I don't particularly care for (like Deep Blue or Time Ball), I'm not alone with my distaste.
Following my New Year’s Resolution, I will not defend the unjustly and unfairly ridiculed Timeball, which is a solid puzzle game that is quite enjoyable and satisfying.
You take TIMEBALL, I'll defend DEEP BLUE. I love the underwater setting, the huge sprites and the different kind of strategy that encourages you to be evasive rather than always on the attack. It's probably clouded partially by nostalgia of having owned it as a kid, but I still like to swim around in that world from time to time for some playthroughs. The endless loop of repeating levels after you finish the game proper is a drag, but I do like how classy the FIN death screen is, it's kind of like the ECCO games that way. Totally get the hate though, I know I've been shit on before for my opinion on DEEP BLUE, but I do legitimately like that game.
I’m glad you posted this because, over the years, a bunch of folks have posted things that helped me understand Deep Blue as a non-traditional game (for its time). I have recently been willing (trying) to give it another chance to be appreciated (on *any* level).
For example, my 6-year-old twins, not knowing any better, did *not* immediately hate Deep Blue. In fact, they have been turned off by many shootemups, but not Deep Blue.
I don’t think Deep Blue’s music is stellar (listening to it independently), but in-game, the music complements the atmosphere, stages, “boss fights” (or should I say squid stampedes?) and does the job adequately.
Little details I *do* like (akin to the “fin” you mentioned) are the animated bubbles that keep cycling when the game pauses, or the “fade to gray” effect, and the modest “parallax” effect achieved at certain points...
I like the stops sub and the fact that its name is A. N. G. E. L.
I think that Deep Blue does, successfully, foster a certain atmosphere that I like and find charming.
HATRED: I know *part* of my hatred stems from the fact that I paid $$$$ for Deep Blue in the 90’s and was *expecting* a standard shootemup, perhaps a clone of Darius (fish theme). I am actually not the biggest fan of the Darius series, but still....
So, I BUY ONE GET ONE 1/2 price (or some similar offer from tzd mail order and what did I f*cking choose?
Bravoman Deep Blue
f*ck me.
Receiving and playing those two games, when I had SO MANY BETTER GAMES TO BUY, was the most disappointing moment in my TG-16 experience.
I don’t know if I will find room in my heart for Bravoman anytime soon, but Deep Blue has a chance.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: grolt on January 03, 2018, 05:50:52 AM
Well put, este, and I've always said, if LL Cool J can rap about it, then it must be a good game.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Zero_Gamer on January 03, 2018, 06:16:22 AM
So much blasphemy in this thread. I had to stop reading. Rovers post threw me over the edge lol
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: OldTurboBastard on January 03, 2018, 06:18:05 AM
Deep Blue was one of those that always looked really cool to me in the magazine shots, but i never got to play it...then when I was able to play it years later, I was not a fan ... but not like i played through the whole game so shouldn't judge too harshly.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: seieienbu on January 03, 2018, 06:29:39 AM
I love RPGs, I love the visuals and music... But I'm just so damn terrible at these games that I don't have as much fun playing them as I feel I should have.
I feel like I've gotta ask: have you played them with a group of friends?
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 03, 2018, 07:32:43 AM
I love RPGs, I love the visuals and music... But I'm just so damn terrible at these games that I don't have as much fun playing them as I feel I should have.
I feel like I've gotta ask: have you played them with a group of friends?
I beat DE 1&2 solo and with friends. So much fun, in different ways, taking both routes.
I find Gauntlet (solo and with friends) to be much more difficult and challenging to beat than DE 1/2.
VERDICT: nullity must play Gauntlet.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: seieienbu on January 03, 2018, 08:54:08 AM
That's too bad. But....do you at least enjoy the music?
I love Dungeon Explorer, but above all else the soundtrack to the game is what really draws me in.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on January 03, 2018, 09:04:55 AM
SideArms and SideArms Special are both poo.
That is all.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 03, 2018, 09:12:44 AM
Most legendary classics, particularly anything associated with Nintendo, are blindly praised as flawless by the same people who unfairly criticize non-Nintendo/legendary classics for the tiniest imperfections or anything that doesn't fit within their predetermined cookie cutter idea of how games are supposed to play and must fit very specific genres.
They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).
I showed Neutopia to a friend of mine who's a Zelda fan and he flew off the handle hating on it. Neutopia isn't exactly my favorite Turbo game but I still enjoyed running through it. Hilariously, I think Zelda 1 on the NES is super overrated. I'd say I enjoy it about as much as Neutopia, honestly. Listening to him rail on the game as if it was this ridiculously terrible game while he dotes on and on about NES Zelda though? Quality entertainment.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: GoldenWheels on January 10, 2018, 06:49:17 AM
They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).
I know what you are saying and think it is a valid point, but maybe a bad example. If someone told me they preferred the PCE version (which I think is the only one that is actually the "same" game, could be wrong there) , I'd have to ask them why, honestly. I'd think the NES version was leagues better even without my Nintendo tramp stamp.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Keith Courage on January 10, 2018, 07:05:02 AM
They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).
I know what you are saying and think it is a valid point, but maybe a bad example. If someone told me they preferred the PCE version (which I think is the only one that is actually the "same" game, could be wrong there) , I'd have to ask them why, honestly. I'd think the NES version was leagues better even without my Nintendo tramp stamp.
I didn't grow up with the Nintendo version of Ninja Gaiden so I have no Nostalgia for it. With this in mind I prefer the pce version of the game. If I compare the two, I can't stand how washed out the colors in the Nintendo version Look compared to the PC engine.
this might be because the TurboGrafx was my Nintendo growing up. Meaning if colors don't look as good as the TurboGrafx they can end up looking subpar to me.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: GoldenWheels on January 10, 2018, 07:39:32 AM
I didn't grow up with the Nintendo version of Ninja Gaiden so I have no Nostalgia for it. With this in mind I prefer the pce version of the game. If I compare the two, I can't stand how washed out the colors in the Nintendo version Look compared to the PC engine.
this might be because the TurboGrafx was my Nintendo growing up. Meaning if colors don't look as good as the TurboGrafx they can end up looking subpar to me.
Huh. I can't stand the scrolling on the PCE one (which granted doesn't affect every level equally, but it is majorly distracting where it exists) and I think the NES cutscenes and graphics are better overall (surprising to me as I expect the PCE visuals to be notably better, maybe that's my mistake).
You're prob right about the color but I'm reverse of you in childhood systems so NES color to me seems ok.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: GoldenWheels on January 10, 2018, 07:40:25 AM
I gotta stop hitting quote instead of edit.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 10, 2018, 08:22:42 AM
Literally every sword slash is a genuine cheap moment in Ninja Gaiden NES, as striking an enemy with your sword does not affect them and instead you take damage from the enemy running through you.
Most legendary classics, particularly anything associated with Nintendo, are blindly praised as flawless by the same people who unfairly criticize non-Nintendo/legendary classics for the tiniest imperfections or anything that doesn't fit within their predetermined cookie cutter idea of how games are supposed to play and must fit very specific genres.
They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).
Do you think Legendary Axe is broken? I don’t. I don’t think Ninja Gaiden is broken, either.
You can say the sword slash is cheap, but I rarely consider it a problem....I have a “real” gripe with the game (see below).
The sword slash is not really a problem in Ninja Gaiden. Every game has its rules.
As someone stated earlier, once you learn the “rules” of the hit box/collision detection/______ for a game, minor adjustments are (often) all that is required to fully enjoy the game.
Indeed, I would argue that it is much more productive and meaningful to think of things such as “hitbox” or “collision detection” as a continuum....we, then, the folks who play games, decide where to draw the line between acceptable vs. unacceptable.
Players intuitively learn this when playing a game...they strike sooner, jump sooner....or strike later, jump later.
Ninja Gaiden, despite its flaws, is a totally fun, enjoyable game...save for a few genuinely cheap moments (usually requiring a spin attack or fire magic to pass without frustration).
MY REAL GRIPE WITH NINJA GAIDEN: The crazy moments in the game that involve very challenging platforming with awkward placement/spawning of enemies and require a bit of strategy (make sure you have magic) instead of blindly running forward and jumping.
Since these cheap moments in Ninja Gaiden are not about the sword slashes (but rather platforming + enemy placement/respawning), I am not sure if I strengthened my argument or strengthened your argument, ha!
:)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Black Tiger on January 11, 2018, 01:53:00 AM
Night Creatures is fun and I have had no problem playing through it since I figured out how to, but people who refuse to still dismiss it as garbage.
I love the core gameplay and overall idea and style of Legendary Axe, as well as some of its stage design. Some of the stage design, particularly that stage with the pits ruins the game overall. Some of the enemy patterns/behaviours coupled with hit points 10+ times too high are the biggest problem. You shouldn't have to figure out a very strict pattern to repeat and then still have it take ten minutes to kill an enemy.
Just like most of the early Mega Man games, Legendary Axe is a great game buried in poor layout design. A hack laying things out different and enemies with appropriate health and positioning/patterns could be be as good as games get. As-is it's a mixed bag with a lot of great content and too much broken content.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on January 11, 2018, 05:26:22 AM
So, I've thought about this thread for a while, and I'm finally able to pinpoint the game that everyone seems to love, that I just can't quite grasp (besides SideArms). That game is Splatterhouse. I've just never really been impressed by it. I think it's average, and doesn't really do alot that other games hadn't done better since. It probably has some to do with me having not played it until lke '94, so I was already a bit numb to the whole gory/adult themed games with MK and the Splatterhouse sequels already out.
But yeah, never really fell in love with Splatterhouse....
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 11, 2018, 05:54:56 AM
So, I've thought about this thread for a while, and I'm finally able to pinpoint the game that everyone seems to love, that I just can't quite grasp (besides SideArms). That game is Splatterhouse. I've just never really been impressed by it. I think it's average, and doesn't really do alot that other games hadn't done better since. It probably has some to do with me having not played it until lke '94, so I was already a bit numb to the whole gory/adult themed games with MK and the Splatterhouse sequels already out.
But yeah, never really fell in love with Splatterhouse....
I’ll reply to Black_Tiger’s post later on the train, but concerning Splatterhouse:
It really is an average game—not particularly amazing.
However, a bunch of *minor* factors help elevate it *above average* for me (treat these *admittedly minor* factors as multipliers...that’s the difference between your perspective and mine...seemingly trivial attributes combine to reach a critical mass):
1) we were starved for games in TG-16 library when this came out, and especially starved for this sort of genre (whatever it is)
2) despite generic tropes, it has a LOT of personality and twisted creativity, especially since this predates a lot of games to follow horror themes (mirror image attacking you, shotgun, puke, abstract paintings ripping from canvas, “Sluggy”)
3) it is so satisfying to splat enemies, slice enemies, slide into enemies. CLUNKY at times? Sure! But it still remains visceral and satisfying to SUCCESSFULLY ATTACK
4) the game does a good job building a mood and atmosphere! This is very hard to pull off (IMHO)
5) the jump scare surprises, in general
6) death of girlfriend and her haunting you = awesome (not simply that this occurs, but the *execution* is very, very well done and convincing)
7) I could go on and on
BOTTOM LINE: an average, clunky, too-short game with a few key attributes really elevates it above mediocre for me!!
Disclaimer: I love Splatterhouse (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji4.png)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: seieienbu on January 11, 2018, 06:26:10 AM
Splatterhouse was a shockingly cool game when I first saw it at an arcade, Games Galore. My parents coming up, seeing the game, and not letting me finish my game and making me leave? That made me want the game more. The fact that the home port was on the Turbo added to the mystique of both the game and the system.
It may play a little bit clunky, but nobody can tell me that the dark and evil mood that the game generates isn't amazing. This holds particularly true when compared with other games of the era.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 11, 2018, 07:27:55 AM
It may play a little bit clunky, but nobody can tell me that the dark and evil mood that the game generates isn't amazing. This holds particularly true when compared with other games of the era.
Agreed. :)
And... I wish I had a chance to play this in the arcade. I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN ACTUAL ARCADE CAB, EVER.
Same goes for Sidearms (another fave of mine).
It just boggles my mind that I missed out on lots of games despite the fact that I actively sought them out at every arcade, skating rink, bowling alley, deli, pizzeria, laundromat, etc. etc.
It didn’t matter how hard I searched, they just weren’t available at the places I went to.
:( :)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: seieienbu on January 11, 2018, 08:30:51 AM
Aside from when I was a kid, I was at a vintage game convention in Dallas last year where they had one. Those were the only times I've ever seen it. It's on the short list of games I'd like to get for my arcade but that's another story.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: retro junkie on January 13, 2018, 01:23:41 AM
They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).
I know what you are saying and think it is a valid point, but maybe a bad example. If someone told me they preferred the PCE version (which I think is the only one that is actually the "same" game, could be wrong there) , I'd have to ask them why, honestly. I'd think the NES version was leagues better even without my Nintendo tramp stamp.
Not to split hairs, but the Atari Lynx port of Ninja Gaiden 3 is the "same" as the NES version. To its detriment, as the graphics were just scaled down instead of being redrawn completely for the lower-res screen. Other than the attack and jump buttons being irreversibly swapped in the Lynx port, the controls are perfect and the gameplay, enemy placement, and level designs are identical to the NES original. The worst of it is the soundtrack. It was great on the NES, but it was butchered on the Lynx and does a huge disservice to the port. I am a huge Lynx fanboy, and I love the NES Ninja Gaiden trilogy, but I can't bring myself to like the Lynx port of Ninja Gaiden 3. I can't see how anyone who wasn't already a fan of the NES version could get much enjoyment out of the Lynx one.
On the topic of NES NG vs. PCE NG, I adored the NES version as a kid, and my glasses are more rose-colored for it than probably any other single game. But I was overjoyed to learn about the PCE version 20 years or so ago - I always enjoy exploring different "takes" on my favorite things. I've only played about halfway through the PCE version, but the choppy scrolling is really distracting to me. It's a shame, as the graphics overall are much nicer than the NES and SNES versions.
(Sorry, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the SNES version...I just took the whole conversation down a few notches.)
I don't care for what I've heard of the soundtrack in the PCE version, but I can't say that's due to anything more than nostalgia. There's actually a recent thread at the Castlevania Dungeon forums in which the topic creator tries to show that the PCE version's level 1 theme is superior to the NES version's.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: lukester on January 17, 2018, 08:52:32 AM
Some of the same people on this forum who blast Ninja Gaiden on pce, tend to also elevate Ys III. A bit irony there.
I always liked pce Ninja Gaiden, especially since birds do less damage and other enemies are a bit less aggressive. The scrolling is bad yes (programmed by the Chinese), but there are plenty of indoor levels that look normal too.
Unlike other ports such as Dynastic Hero or Bonk's Adventure on the Amiga, the new soundtrack in Ninja Gaiden is still up to par even if it is different.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Black Tiger on January 17, 2018, 11:35:27 AM
Some of the same people on this forum who blast Ninja Gaiden on pce, tend to also elevate Ys III. A bit irony there.
I always liked pce Ninja Gaiden, especially since birds do less damage and other enemies are a bit less aggressive. The scrolling is bad yes (programmed by the Chinese), but there are plenty of indoor levels that look normal too.
Unlike other ports such as Dynastic Hero or Bonk's Adventure on the Amiga, the new soundtrack in Ninja Gaiden is still up to par even if it is different.
Are you just judging two games by choppy dynamic tile parallax alone?
Ys III is the opposite scenario of Ninja Gaiden. The choppy dynamic tiles are the original artistic vision and it's the later ports that are different. Ninja Gaiden suffers from smooth 60fps scrolling with pockets of incorrectly implemented dynamic tile parallax. Turbo Ys III has 100% correctly implemented dynamic tile sections with a few brief smooth scrolling sections. You don't get the jarring juxtaposition of Ninja Gaiden at all.
The gameplay of Ys III was designed from the ground up around the framerate of the computer versions. The Turbo version makes everything smoother by moving fast. Separate from the solid control/collision (by Ys III standards) and how the choppy tiles affect visuals, it's an adventure/RPG, not action game. There's much more to it outside of the action portion or the dynamic tiles. Ys I & II isn't in the same boat as Ninja Gaiden either.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: schweaty on January 17, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
Parasol Stars for me. Don't get me wrong, it looks great. I just have never gotten into single screen platformers. I think it's just a little before my time. When Super Mario Bros came out, it literally changed the game forever for me.
As far a Ninja Gaiden goes. I like the PCE and NES versions. The PCE version does look better, but it's not a graphics leap like the PCE version of Double Dragon II was. For me, the difference is the music. The NES version is one of the all time great soundtracks. Fast and frenzied, it fits the gameplay perfectly.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: VmprHntrD on January 17, 2018, 04:17:16 PM
I know in Ys circles Ys III often gets bashed since it was the bastard child of the family not being like the others as a side scrolling platformer but I've always enjoyed it. It's a little strange but it handles well enough. Maybe I shouldn't like it as it's cool to hate on it, but I think it's fine.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 18, 2018, 08:18:41 AM
I know in Ys circles Ys III often gets bashed since it was the bastard child of the family not being like the others as a side scrolling platformer but I've always enjoyed it. It's a little strange but it handles well enough. Maybe I shouldn't like it as it's cool to hate on it, but I think it's fine.
It is a totally fun game.
:)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Punch on January 18, 2018, 08:24:25 AM
All Sidearms HYPERDYNE bashers: suck my left one.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 18, 2018, 08:25:17 AM
^ Agreed!
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: PapaSmurf on January 28, 2018, 05:21:47 AM
Am I in Bizzaro Earth or something? I had no idea so many people actually liked this game. Back in the day, I convinced a friend to get SideArms for his birthday. It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right? Nope. We played it and were so disappointed. The tunes were nice, but that's it. The game is repetitive and boring. I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level." And "this spinny circle thing again???"
Oh yeah... The game isn't even two players! We couldn't even use our new Turbo Taps.
Ugh.. Funny thing is that I still have my friend's SideArms Turbo Chip. I guess he didn't care for it either or he would have asked for it back 28 or so years ago. And I haven't played it since! Maybe I'll give it another chance. To be continued......
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: ccovell on January 28, 2018, 09:29:59 AM
We played it and were so disappointed. The tunes were nice, but that's it. The game is repetitive and boring. I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."
Yeah, Super Mario Bros. sucks in the same way. :roll: 2nd level is always underground and 4th level is always some dumb, empty, boring castle. And the boss never changes. How could people like this?? :roll:
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: PapaSmurf on January 28, 2018, 12:08:18 PM
Yeah, Super Mario Bros. sucks in the same way. :roll: 2nd level is always underground and 4th level is always some dumb, empty, boring castle. And the boss never changes. How could people like this?? :roll:
My levity must of touched a nerve. :lol: It's only my opinion.
Mario platformers have several qualities, some addictive, to them that make them popular such as finding secrets, beating the clock, timing jumps, speed running, etc. I wouldn't compare these two vastly different games.
Anyone here think SideArms > R-Type?
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Phase on January 28, 2018, 12:10:18 PM
yeah I mean Sidearms isn't the greatest but its a decent game. I think a lot of people don't know you can switch weapons in the pause menu. Took me a while to figure that out bitd
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: gilbert on January 28, 2018, 12:16:00 PM
It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right? Nope. ... The game is repetitive and boring. I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level." And "this spinny circle thing again???"
Capcom was actually known for many repetitive games though, such as Exed Exes and 1942. Even the much improved 1943 and 1943 Kai weren't offering much variations either. (I think the 19xx series got more variations much later, when they decided to ditch all the realistic overtones.) At least SideArms offered more variations in the settings(a lot of weapon options, vertically scrolling stages, shooting at either sides, etc.), and mecha combination! Though Nichibutsu games offered more crazy combinations.
I'm a bit biased though, as having nostalgic memories playing a lot the arcade version(and not so well, couldn't even get past the second stage) and the LOADS of Anime plagiarismsreferences in it certainly helped (that Akiman being part of the graphics team could be a reason), which people not getting into ANIME in that era might not understand.
The PCE version (actually the CD "Special" version, which is the only version I own) does have a number of features compromised, such as having to pause when changing weapons, no backgrounds in some of the boss fights(those wheels, actually) and (obviously) lack of 2-player mode, but it's still a mostly accurate port, which was as close as you could get for console conversions at that time (I think all the artworks were lifted directly from the arcade version, so they're just pixel perfect). Many of the changes are minor at best, if you accept them. The need to pause when changing weapons actually makes the game easier and the lack of 2-player mode isn't that seriously a downgrade, as you'd like to keep your mecha combined at all time anyway (I think it's actually a design flaw to leave one of the players almost useless in the combined state, but not being able to play with the beta robot is certainly missed, and that you couldn't have beta-alpha combination, which some people claimed was a more powerful form in the arcade version). At least I could beat this version (but not the Before Christ mode, which I personally think is a trainwreck for changing almost everything to make the game nearly unplayable, but it's just free stuff so I couldn't complain) so I love this version even more. (And yeah, even though I don't own the Hucard version, I think the new stage one tune is nice, though why they decided to add this was a mystery.)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: lukester on January 28, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
1943 kai is a really nice port, and the original stages are baller as f*ck. Too bad the laser is so overpowered (you can upgrade it twice)
I beat side arms years ago but that was within the default 5 continues, so definitely not as impressive. So many worms. The megaman 2 composer did the new stage one song, as well as SonSon 2.
According to pcefx I’m not supposed to like pacland, bravoman, samurai ghost or wonder momo.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: ClodBuster on January 28, 2018, 07:58:10 PM
I don't like Air Zonk as much as people make me feel I should.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: wiseau on January 28, 2018, 08:12:26 PM
Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.
Title: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on January 28, 2018, 11:33:30 PM
It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right? Nope. ... The game is repetitive and boring. I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level." And "this spinny circle thing again???"
Capcom was actually known for many repetitive games though, such as Exed Exes and 1942. Even the much improved 1943 and 1943 Kai weren't offering much variations either. (I think the 19xx series got more variations much later, when they decided to ditch all the realistic overtones.) At least SideArms offered more variations in the settings(a lot of weapon options, vertically scrolling stages, shooting at either sides, etc.), and mecha combination! Though Nichibutsu games offered more crazy combinations.
I'm a bit biased though, as having nostalgic memories playing a lot the arcade version(and not so well, couldn't even get past the second stage) and the LOADS of Anime plagiarismsreferences in it certainly helped (that Akiman being part of the graphics team could be a reason), which people not getting into ANIME in that era might not understand.
The PCE version (actually the CD "Special" version, which is the only version I own) does have a number of features compromised, such as having to pause when changing weapons, no backgrounds in some of the boss fights(those wheels, actually) and (obviously) lack of 2-player mode, but it's still a mostly accurate port, which was as close as you could get for console conversions at that time (I think all the artworks were lifted directly from the arcade version, so they're just pixel perfect). Many of the changes are minor at best, if you accept them. The need to pause when changing weapons actually makes the game easier and the lack of 2-player mode isn't that seriously a downgrade, as you'd like to keep your mecha combined at all time anyway (I think it's actually a design flaw to leave one of the players almost useless in the combined state, but not being able to play with the beta robot is certainly missed, and that you couldn't have beta-alpha combination, which some people claimed was a more powerful form in the arcade version). At least I could beat this version (but not the Before Christ mode, which I personally think is a trainwreck for changing almost everything to make the game nearly unplayable, but it's just free stuff so I couldn't complain) so I love this version even more. (And yeah, even though I don't own the Hucard version, I think the new stage one tune is nice, though why they decided to add this was a mystery.)
Yes! I just assumed I suck really bad because I’ve had a very frustrating experience with the Before Christ mode... and I feel like I am missing out on something (I have not gotten to the last few states in B.C. Mode, IIRC).
This is how I would describe SideArms: it doesn’t make a strong first impression.
Or, to put it another way: it is a game that grows on you and becomes more charming the longer you spend with it. It has a surprising amount of personality and things to do (and discover)...if you open your heart.
For example, it did not particularly impress me when I first played it on TG-16 (My friend got Sidearms as soon as it was released, but I had already played Blazing Lazers and was spoiled by BL/Gunhed).
I don’t think Sidearms was one of those games that could GRAB YOU BY THE LEFT ONE (either in the arcade or on the console) in 1989-1990...because it didn’t have the aesthetic flair of the “current generation” of games (BL).
...so I forgive people whose FIRST IMPRESSION of Sidearms was a mere shrug.
However, once you are playing Sidearms, it was SWIFT and FUN and really addictive (at least, addictive for me, I love the mechanic of flipping forward/backward a la Section Z NES)... I still think it is fun to take different paths through Sidearms (instead of following the same pattern) because it really changes things! (Not all games really feel different if you do this, in my experience.)
Personally, I put Raiden and Sidearms in similar categories: their real charm is the addictive quality of: I think I can get a little bit farther...but dammit, I keep f*cking up...
I know some folks find Sidearms easy, but beating the game without continues wasn’t easy for me.
ASIDE: FOR A CAPCOM GAME THAT *SHOULD* have been a MASTERPIECE, but then allows horrible repetition to destroy it l, I would bring your attention to LEGENDARY WINGS (NES) .... the horizontal boss fights are SO REPETITIVE and just suck a lot of the awesomeness away...
Legendary Wings, with a bit more effort and care, could easily have been a goddamn solid platinum classic for All Time (I still like the game, but what a squandered opportunity—it physically hurts me to think about it).
So, yes, Sidearms does suffer a bit from recycling “boss/mini-boss” assets... but thankfully it doesn’t completely negate itself (like Legendary Wings).
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: vestcoat on January 29, 2018, 06:57:06 AM
Blazing Lazers. I don't know why I don't enjoy it. I like Soldier Blade and Cyber Core all right.
Also, why are vertical shooters less fun than horizontal shooters? I like primitive vertical shooters, like Galaga and Space Invaders, but somewhere around Astro Warrior I loose interest and will play Dead Moon or R-Type over a vertical scroller any day.
My theory is verticals suck because of the aspect ratio of TV's. It's harder for designers to fill the screen with action when the top of the scrolling direction is smooshed. - Also CF2. And not because of the encounter frequency or lack of item effects, but because JRPG's ruined the world.
Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.
Vasteel is the perfect sustainable strategy game -- good enough to be fun, but not spectacular. I can play a couple games, then put it down and have a life. I also love how it's totally not a Super CD -- some nice touches, but still firmly grounded in the dirty realm of early video games.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Winniez on January 31, 2018, 10:52:38 AM
Blazing Lazers. I don't know why I don't enjoy it. I like Soldier Blade and Cyber Core all right.
Also, why are vertical shooters less fun than horizontal shooters? I like primitive vertical shooters, like Galaga and Space Invaders, but somewhere around Astro Warrior I loose interest and will play Dead Moon or R-Type over a vertical scroller any day.
My theory is verticals suck because of the aspect ratio of TV's. It's harder for designers to fill the screen with action when the top of the scrolling direction is smooshed. - Also CF2. And not because of the encounter frequency or lack of item effects, but because JRPG's ruined the world.
Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.
Vasteel is the perfect sustainable strategy game -- good enough to be fun, but not spectacular. I can play a couple games, then put it down and have a life. I also love how it's totally not a Super CD -- some nice touches, but still firmly grounded in the dirty realm of early video games.
That might be due to the pacing issues. Gunhead just feels kind of boring and slow compared against the Soldier triology on PC-Engine. I have always considered Compile shooters a tad overrated.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: MisterCrash on February 03, 2018, 05:14:06 AM
For me, it's Coryoon. I love cute shooters, and really like Air Zonk (which is not due to nostalgia), so a game made by the same developers seemed like a sure thing. But I find I don't really enjoy playing it. My main gripes are the fruit, which is just everywhere and make it really hard to see enemies /obstacles /bullets, and the cycling powerups, where it's too easy to accidentally grab the wrong color.
As for Splatterhouse, it was one of the first games that I got for my Turbo back in the day, and I loved it. I tried playing it again a few months ago, and found that I didn't really care for it anymore. The effects and atmosphere are nice, but I just wasn't having fun playing it.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: jtucci31 on February 03, 2018, 05:27:12 AM
Spriggan for me.
I thought it looked really cool and that I'd like it, but it just feels too busy for me as a shooter. :(
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: Necromancer on February 05, 2018, 03:21:43 AM
For me, it's Coryoon. I love cute shooters, and really like Air Zonk (which is not due to nostalgia), so a game made by the same developers seemed like a sure thing. But I find I don't really enjoy playing it. My main gripes are the fruit, which is just everywhere and make it really hard to see enemies /obstacles /bullets, and the cycling powerups, where it's too easy to accidentally grab the wrong color.
You should give it a try with the fruit turned off. Maybe you'd like it then.
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: esteban on April 15, 2018, 07:07:18 AM
I thought it looked really cool and that I'd like it, but it just feels too busy for me as a shooter. :(
Well, many games can feel overwhelming at first. But then, once you train yourself a bit (awareness of projectiles, especially against certain backgrounds)... you might friggin’ love Spriggan.
The power of Before Christ compels you.
The power of Before Christ compels you.
The power of Before Christ compels you.
(...you might friggin’ love Spriggan!)
Title: Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
Post by: EmperorIng on April 15, 2018, 10:05:03 AM
actually the secret to Spriggan is Green Green Yellow. Bam, you don't need to worry about Spriggan anymore.