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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: guyjin on December 23, 2006, 01:47:27 PM
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as a follow-up to 'favorite pre-crash system', What was your favorite system of the 5th generation?
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Saturn while it's, domestic suport sucked it's selection in imports was perfect to me.
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Agreed.... Saturn. I don't know if the 32X can really be called a "system", though.
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Saturn first,3DO second.
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Agreed.... Saturn. I don't know if the 32X can really be called a "system", though.
A lot of people do, but to me its clearly an add-on to the MD. Even if I did consider it a discrete system, I don't think it belongs in the same catagory as the N64. I mean, yeah, they both suck rocks, but the N64 was so much more powerful and came out years later.
I have no idea what defines a "generation" past the 16-bit wars, honestly, but whatever the 5th one was it sure did seem to have its share of loser systems. The Saturn and PS were pretty nice, but everything else on this list pretty much typifies the word "failure". The N64 made a lot of money for Nintendo, but its still a failure based on the fact that it sucked, and disapointed a lot of gamers, and also marked the exit of Nintendo as #1, something they still haven't recovered from. I mean, they are far richer than any other game company, and that shows no sign of changing, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind being #1 in consoles again, regardless of what they say.
Speaking of failure, I think you left out the Marty.
BTW, my fave system on this list is the Saturn, with no close 2nd.
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No Pippin Atmark? :shock:
I voted for PC-FX just to give it some love, though my real vote would be for Saturn of course.
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i included the 32X in with the saturn, just because they were developed around the same time. (i wish sega had somehow managed to merge the projects)
my omission of the marty is inexcusable. *seppuku*
My omission of the pippin, however, is entirely justified.
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No Pippin Atmark? :shock:
I came in here just to make that joke, you jerk. Thanks for stealing my thunder.
Oh, and I voted Saturn. What a shock!
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very very hard decision, since both, the PSx and SS gave me a lot of exclusive 2D pleasure over those years (and the PSx some 3D as well ;) ).
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btw. what's about FM Twons Marty? :(
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Saturn all the way. The voting result here along this group doesn't surprise me... :)
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Where's the Jaguar? Truthfully, I love the Jag, it's not my favorite system by any means, but, it's an underdog, & I enjoy a great deal of the games on it. The 3DO had it's share as well, but, too many FMV games like the Sega CD. The CD32, I don't have enough games for it yet, atleast, one's that work on an NTSC tv, to really give an opinion. It seems decent enough, & I liked the Amiga computers. The Saturn is a great system, that never lived up to what it could've been outside of Japan. But, even though I quite a few imports for it, & most of the domestic rpg's, the PS1 rules as #1, as I have too many good memories on it. I had me some good times with the PS, no doubt.
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Nintendo 64 followed by Saturn. Most of the other systems are incredibly laughable. Really, I see no reason to like (or even use) them. CD-i, 3DO, Jaguar, CD32 etc, all crap. :-&
Also, FM Towns Marty is just a computer in a console case, so it doesn't really qualify as a "console", at least not to me.
Oh and I wouldn't include systems like Nintendo 64 and PS1 in the same category as CD-i, for example. The CD-i was released in 1991!
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Where's the Jaguar? Truthfully, I love the Jag, it's not my favorite system by any means, but, it's an underdog, & I enjoy a great deal of the games on it. The 3DO had it's share as well, but, too many FMV games like the Sega CD. The CD32, I don't have enough games for it yet, atleast, one's that work on an NTSC tv, to really give an opinion. It seems decent enough, & I liked the Amiga computers. The Saturn is a great system, that never lived up to what it could've been outside of Japan. But, even though I quite a few imports for it, & most of the domestic rpg's, the PS1 rules as #1, as I have too many good memories on it. I had me some good times with the PS, no doubt.
I personally consider the Jaguar part of the 16-bit generation.
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Where's the Jaguar? Truthfully, I love the Jag, it's not my favorite system by any means, but, it's an underdog, & I enjoy a great deal of the games on it. The 3DO had it's share as well, but, too many FMV games like the Sega CD. The CD32, I don't have enough games for it yet, atleast, one's that work on an NTSC tv, to really give an opinion. It seems decent enough, & I liked the Amiga computers. The Saturn is a great system, that never lived up to what it could've been outside of Japan. But, even though I quite a few imports for it, & most of the domestic rpg's, the PS1 rules as #1, as I have too many good memories on it. I had me some good times with the PS, no doubt.
I personally consider the Jaguar part of the 16-bit generation.
Doom,Alien versus Predator,I-War,Battlemorph,Hoverstrike Cd,and Wolfenstien 3d beg to differ,however Id say alot (not all) of the other offerings were more along the Amiga or 16-bit lines.
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Where's the Jaguar? Truthfully, I love the Jag, it's not my favorite system by any means, but, it's an underdog, & I enjoy a great deal of the games on it. The 3DO had it's share as well, but, too many FMV games like the Sega CD. The CD32, I don't have enough games for it yet, atleast, one's that work on an NTSC tv, to really give an opinion. It seems decent enough, & I liked the Amiga computers. The Saturn is a great system, that never lived up to what it could've been outside of Japan. But, even though I quite a few imports for it, & most of the domestic rpg's, the PS1 rules as #1, as I have too many good memories on it. I had me some good times with the PS, no doubt.
I personally consider the Jaguar part of the 16-bit generation.
Doom,Alien versus Predator,I-War,Battlemorph,Hoverstrike Cd,and Wolfenstien 3d beg to differ,however Id say alot (not all) of the other offerings were more along the Amiga or 16-bit lines.
It had some 3D capability, but it didn't do much more than the better 16-bit arcade games.
I'd also classify the 32X as the high end of the 16-bit generation and the GBA as 16-bit.
We also saw Virtua Racing Genesis, Duke Nukem Megadrive, Doom SNES, Wolfenstien SNES, SSFII SNES, SF Alpha SNES, Star Fox, plus a bunch of great huge 16-bit RPG's that still looked great on 32-bit systems.
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an then, the 8-bit pc engine arcade cd-romrom came and beated all of them :mrgreen:
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Where's the Jaguar? Truthfully, I love the Jag, it's not my favorite system by any means, but, it's an underdog, & I enjoy a great deal of the games on it. The 3DO had it's share as well, but, too many FMV games like the Sega CD. The CD32, I don't have enough games for it yet, atleast, one's that work on an NTSC tv, to really give an opinion. It seems decent enough, & I liked the Amiga computers. The Saturn is a great system, that never lived up to what it could've been outside of Japan. But, even though I quite a few imports for it, & most of the domestic rpg's, the PS1 rules as #1, as I have too many good memories on it. I had me some good times with the PS, no doubt.
I personally consider the Jaguar part of the 16-bit generation.
Doom,Alien versus Predator,I-War,Battlemorph,Hoverstrike Cd,and Wolfenstien 3d beg to differ,however Id say alot (not all) of the other offerings were more along the Amiga or 16-bit lines.
It had some 3D capability, but it didn't do much more than the better 16-bit arcade games.
I'd also classify the 32X as the high end of the 16-bit generation and the GBA as 16-bit.
We also saw Virtua Racing Genesis, Duke Nukem Megadrive, Doom SNES, Wolfenstien SNES, SSFII SNES, SF Alpha SNES, Star Fox, plus a bunch of great huge 16-bit RPG's that still looked great on 32-bit systems.
Doom and Wolfenstien for Snes,and the unreleased in everywhere but Brazil Duke Nukem Megadrive couldnt compete with Doom,Wolfenstine and Alien versus Predator for Jaguar. As for 32X,it did use 32-bit processors,wether you want to classify it into whatever doesnt matter,because thats your opinion,not fact. As for the Jaguar,while I stead fast agree it didnt look like 64 bit graphics,it easily held its own with 486 DX and Pentium 1 gaming graphics,which fall into the 32-bit catagory up untill 3D accelerated graphics cards were made available like the VooDoo 1.
Big sorry in advance here but I am going to be posting comparasons and its going to be taking up some space. I cant help it. I cant stand to see someone sit there and make such obviously stupid bias comments about a couple of systems even if they are just opinion they are opinion with no real foundation to stand on.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/Doomcompair.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/Wolfcompair.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/MK2.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/racing.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/Starwarscompare.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/jagfight.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/alpha2.png)
Granted the 32X and Jaguar were not the best,or even great examples of how 32-bit and 64-bit systems should have been,and yes they did fail. However it may have played out though,the fact remains that they obviously were not 16-bit,and in saying they were it makes it look like you think Model 1 games and Pentium Pro era games were 16-bit also. This is a mistake on your part,and not the fault of the systems being discussed here. All of them did have some shining examples of the power they had and what could have been if not for lack of solid support. A good example is MK 2 for Snes compared to Ultra Vortek. I will play Ultra Vortek any day of the week over a crap 16-bit port of MK 2. Some of the shining examples you mettioned for Genesis and Snes are infact not good examples of what those systems could do. At the rate you were going Im surprised you didnt say Stunt Race FX was better then Virtua Racing for 32X.
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I'd also classify the...GBA as 16-bit.
Um...what?
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Alien VS Predator isn't a very good example of the Jaguar's 3D capabilities, the graphics were complete and utter shit. The colors were bad and the framerate was HORRIBLE, Killing Time on 3DO looked smooth as butter in comparison.
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I'd also classify the...GBA as 16-bit.
Um...what?
what he means is, that the GBA actually is a 32-bitter, but its capability and characteristics resemble more to 16-bitters, i guess.
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Also, FM Towns Marty is just a computer in a console case, so it doesn't really qualify as a "console", at least not to me.
same you can say for the Amiga CD-32 or XBox etc...
the definiton of a console is a plug'n'play game-device to use on any kind of TVs, and that's just what the Marty is. Plug, turn on, insert game > have fun. It doesn't matter what's inside.
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I'd also classify the...GBA as 16-bit.
Um...what?
The GBA(Gameboy Advance) is supposed to be 32-bit.
Doom and Wolfenstien for Snes,and the unreleased in everywhere but Brazil Duke Nukem Megadrive couldnt compete with Doom,Wolfenstine and Alien versus Predator for Jaguar. As for 32X,it did use 32-bit processors,wether you want to classify it into whatever doesnt matter,because thats your opinion,not fact. As for the Jaguar,while I stead fast agree it didnt look like 64 bit graphics,it easily held its own with 486 DX and Pentium 1 gaming graphics,which fall into the 32-bit catagory up untill 3D accelerated graphics cards were made available like the VooDoo 1.
Big sorry in advance here but I am going to be posting comparasons and its going to be taking up some space. I cant help it. I cant stand to see someone sit there and make such obviously stupid bias comments about a couple of systems even if they are just opinion they are opinion with no real foundation to stand on.
Granted the 32X and Jaguar were not the best,or even great examples of how 32-bit and 64-bit systems should have been,and yes they did fail. However it may have played out though,the fact remains that they obviously were not 16-bit,and in saying they were it makes it look like you think Model 1 games and Pentium Pro era games were 16-bit also. This is a mistake on your part,and not the fault of the systems being discussed here. All of them did have some shining examples of the power they had and what could have been if not for lack of solid support. A good example is MK 2 for Snes compared to Ultra Vortek. I will play Ultra Vortek any day of the week over a crap 16-bit port of MK 2. Some of the shining examples you mettioned for Genesis and Snes are infact not good examples of what those systems could do. At the rate you were going Im surprised you didnt say Stunt Race FX was better then Virtua Racing for 32X.
By the same logic as comparing the Jaguar or even 3DO to SNES/Genesis to show how much more powerful they are and therefore 32-bit gen, if you compare them to the Saturn/PSX there's an even bigger gap.
As for Turbografx-16/PC Engine, it used 8-bit processors,wether you want to classify it into whatever doesnt matter, because thats your opinion, not fact. :P
I don't consider the arcade of MKII 32-bit, let alone any ports. If Model 1 is 32+bit, does that make Model 2 64+bit? This is why I don't normally classify arcades by console generations.
I don't really consider the PC-FX a real 32-bitter either(ready to be flamed + banned 8-[) and the N64 is 32-bit to me.
In my mind, the Dreamcast is part of the same generation as PS2/GC/Xbox.
I think that the SMS is closer to 16-bit than it is to the NES, basically all it needed was extra processing power. But I still call it 8-bit. So you can see how selective I am.
If the Xbox360 never received any 3D games and only received simple 16-bit'ish 2D games, I'd consider it more or less part of the 16-bit generation, regardless of generally untapped power.
I also believe that the Jaguar could've handled a port of Virtua Fighter better than the 32X's, at least match all of the 3DO's software and push some 3D that would look decent on Saturn/PSX... if the right people developed for it.
But as the software available overall is, it feels more like a 16-bit platform to me. But I'd take a high end 16-bitter over a low-end 32-bitter anyday.
As for the screenshot comparisons, I do think that both the Jaguar and 32X are awesome and I would have loved to see more great 2D games for them.
But that SF Alpha SNES pic looks amazing next to the arcade's, considering what the SNES is.
And those polygonal arcade, 32-X and Jaguar games do crush Star Fox and other Genesis/SNES 3D games. But try comparing them to the best 3D Saturn and PSX games with full texture mapping and a ton of crazy effects. The Saturn/PSX mop the floor with anything on Jag/32X/3DO much more than the latter 3 dominate the Gen/SNES.
But don't worry, I won't call you stupid. :wink:
And I don't think that PSX vs Jag screenshot comparisons are necessary.
Basically, I guess the way to sum up my personal classification of a console's 'generation', is by how close it/it's overall software is to each generations' main/most successful consoles.
So I guess I'd group systems by how close they are to the following: NES, Genesis/SNES, PSX, PS2, 360.
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Model 1 main cpu 32bits RISC NEC V60 uPD-70616 and graphics cpu Fujitsu TGP MB86233 FPU 32bits 16M flops. Easily 32-bits on both ends and it shows it. Sorry but any complicated 3d graphics,even untextured still required minium 32-bit cpu of some type doing some work,and even untextured 3d games like Virtua Racing or Virtua Fighter easily still look 32-bit,even if early generation,the polygon counts are very high.
Model 2 used a main cpu of Intel i960-KB @ 25 MHz 32bits RISC type. the graphics gpu tended to be 1 of 2 diff types,either by Fujitsu or Anologe Devices,both 32-bit,and they would either use 1 on up to 5 gpus in the hardware.
As for the 32X,and what alot of people dont realize i sthat the twin SH2 32 bit RISC processors for it were all it had for its graphics. It didnt have a gpu,just extra ram and video ram,and all rendering 3d and partly 2d was handled by the SH2s in software,which is pretty impressive,esp for the time. It shared a little bit of the 2d rendering task with the Genesis. And as posted above,its easy to see that the 32X produced 32-bit looking games along with nice ports of 16-bit arcade games.
As for the Jaguar,people tend to forget this simple fact that the system had Tom and Jerry both which did a combination of 32-64 bit data work in different areas graphically and audio wise. It also used a Motorola 68000. People tend to confuse this cpu as a 16 bit cpu because early models of it had a external 16-bit data bus and competing game companies like Sony took advantage of this lack of consumer knowledge when bashing Jaguar. Gamers also were not aware that Motorola also sold 8-bit data bus versions of 68000 because they dont think too far out of the box at times. This 8-bit data bus version was stuck in alot of computers as a low cost alternative. Simple fact is even though the 68000 had 16-bit ALUs, addresses were ALWAYS stored as 32-bit quantities, i.e. it had a strict flat 32-bit address space. This meant that the 68000 WAS and ALWAYS WILL BE a 32-bit microprocessor.
Yes,this means that the Genesis along with the Neogeo have 32-bit cpus for their main cpu,with 16-bit data buses. The Amiga and Macintosh also used these 68000 cpus. Most arcade games in the late 80ies- early 90ies did too,either using the 8-16 bit data bus versions or the 68020 32-bit data bus versions.
This method is still used today,though it is no longer refered to the DATA bus,but instead refered to the Front Side Bus,with offerings like the 200FSB or 266FSB Thunderbird on up to varring FSB A64s causing higher or lower prices. People never are informed enough because their interest does not seem to extend past the game systems box spec wise. They just take a game companies word for it and leave it at that. They only seemed to assume the 68000 was used in arcade games with 16-bit graphics so it must be a 16-bit cpu,which is stupid basic logic.
As for your backwards logic as to whats 16-bit or 32-bit,you have your own opinion to what you think or feel about these games for sure,but that opinion isnt fact,the facts are in the specs and proven in alot of the stated above titles released for said systems in my previous post here.While the 32X and Jaguar didnt have tons of titles showing of their power,they did have a few that showed that they were easily able to do at least 32-bit gaming graphically and in quality.
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In my mind, the Dreamcast is part of the same generation as PS2/GC/Xbox.
As for the Dreamcast:
CPU: SH-4 RISC CPU with 128 Bit FPU functions
Graphics Engine: PowerVR2 CLX2. Yes,its easily in the same generation as the PS2-XBox,esp hardware wise. the Power VR2 GPU used in Dreamcast/Naomi/Sammy Atomaswave ended up proving to actually be a more powerful gpu then the GS gpu found in the PS2 in the end. It was a very close performer to the Radeon hybrid found in the Gamecube,espically if the Power VR gpu is overclocked.
As for the Pc-Engine/Turbografx:
Yes the main cpu was a 8-bit HuC6280A HOWEVER the graphics cpus were both a 16-bit HuC6260 and a 16-bit HuC6270A. So when NEC touted 16-bit graphics they indeed were not lying. As for the 8-bit cpu,being able to run at a tad over 7 mhz more then made up for the fact it was 8-bit.
But don't worry, I won't call you stupid. Wink
Not sure of your meaning there considering your the one calling 32-bit systems 16-bit.... But hey,since your mis-informed and have weird mis conseptions of how game systems hardware works or have a lack of knowledge of these systems specs I wont call you retarded. :P
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Oh my, this thread is severely broken. What happened? :-s
Edit: Well that's odd. It fixed itself. Ignore/delete this post please.
Oh and Star Fox rules!!
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Just as long as nobody starts going into the "Neo Geo is 24-bit" nonsense I'll be happy. Man, how many bits would the Saturn be if they added up all of the processors like that?
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32*5 or so procs = 160 bits!!!!!!! more powerful than the PS3!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:
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Yea like Atari said,DO THE MATH!
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In my mind, the Dreamcast is part of the same generation as PS2/GC/Xbox.
As for the Dreamcast:
CPU: SH-4 RISC CPU with 128 Bit FPU functions
Graphics Engine: PowerVR2 CLX2. Yes,its easily in the same generation as the PS2-XBox,esp hardware wise. the Power VR2 GPU used in Dreamcast/Naomi/Sammy Atomaswave ended up proving to actually be a more powerful gpu then the GS gpu found in the PS2 in the end. It was a very close performer to the Radeon hybrid found in the Gamecube,espically if the Power VR gpu is overclocked.
As for the Pc-Engine/Turbografx:
Yes the main cpu was a 8-bit HuC6280A HOWEVER the graphics cpus were both a 16-bit HuC6260 and a 16-bit HuC6270A. So when NEC touted 16-bit graphics they indeed were not lying. As for the 8-bit cpu,being able to run at a tad over 7 mhz more then made up for the fact it was 8-bit.
But don't worry, I won't call you stupid. Wink
Not sure of your meaning there considering your the one calling 32-bit systems 16-bit.... But hey,since your mis-informed and have weird mis conseptions of how game systems hardware works or have a lack of knowledge of these systems specs I wont call you retarded. :P
I was never talking about how hardware worked. I just said how overall released software felt to me for a few consoles.
I was talking about generations, the standard grouping, which unfortunately, back then are named by bits. If a consoles' games feel more like one group than another to me, it has nothing to do with what is technically under the hood.
You summed it up best for me:
Doom,Alien versus Predator,I-War,Battlemorph,Hoverstrike Cd,and Wolfenstien 3d beg to differ,however Id say alot (not all) of the other offerings were more along the Amiga or 16-bit lines.
From what you've said spec-wise though, it sounds like the 32-bit generation, technically is the widest stretching generation in video game history, spanning at least a couple generational leaps in actual visuals.
This is why I'm glad we've finally escaped the bit generations.
The meaning 'there', besides my responding to when you literally called me stupid, was that when you compared graphics using screenshots, you weren't talking about guts/specs, you were talking about how the games looked, and how those 32-bitters were so much better than the 16-bitters, or like a generational step above.
But going by looks alone, and judging only games that actually exist, the Saturn/PSX look like even more of a generational leap over the Jag/32-X than the Jag/32-X look like over the SNES/Genesis.
You even called the SNES/Genesis games ugly and other negative stuff, compared to the nice Jag & 32-X games. Does that mean that you think that the Saturn/PSX make the Jag/32-X games look ugly? Personally, I like them all and don't feel that the PS3 ruins them.
What I always wanted out of 32-bit consoles, besides ranging from flat shaded polys to textured, shaded, lighted 3D games, was more 'high-res' high color games like the later Guilty Gear's.
Castlevania Symphony Of The Night looks like a SNES CD to me(if the SNES CD-ROM really did add processing power like the Sega-CD). Which isn't a bad thing. I'm not one of those losers that calls any game ever released with any sprites whatsoever as having "SNES graphics", but SOTN looks like PCE Drac X with a SNES pallete and effects. But the majority of PSX games feel PSX'y enough to me group the system in the "32-bit" generation.
The Virtua Boy may also be a real 32-bit powerhouse, but it's games never felt like a generational jump over the SNES
to me.
Model 1 & 2 may both be technically 32-bit hardware, but Model 2 is definitely a generational leap in visuals over Model 1 and not just because of the numerical naming.
Where does the Neo Geo fall technically? I'm not a tech head, but from what you described about some of those true 32-bit guts, it sounds like the Neo Geo is firmly entrenched in the 16-bit generation.
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I didnt refer to Snes and Genesis graphics in general being ugly,thats your asumption of what I was thinking and is not the case. For THEIR time these systems produced some very excellent 2d titles. However what I did do was knock out the "shining examples" you gave as excellent titles to show why you think the Jag and 32X were 16-bitish. The games you gave as a example are infact poor examples of what either the Genesis or Snes could do or were games that shouldnt have been attempted because the results were poor. I also didnt expect the Genesis or Snes to do complexe flat or texture mapped polygon based games well.
For that matter its silly for you to have suggested that the Snes could compete hand in hand with the 32X or Jaguar graphically when both are at thier best and say both of them are 16-bittish,just as the titles you gave examples of are poor choices of compairing Snes and Genesis might with the Jaguar.
Great examples of Snes and Genesis 16-bit might visually and play wise would be Shinobi 3,Gunstar Heroes,Alien Soldier,Phantasy Star 4, Sonic 3,Streets of Rage 2-3 Castlevania Bloodlines,Splatterhouse 2-3,Contra 3,Super Castlevania 4,R-Type 3,Dracula X, Power Instinct, Fatal Fury Special,Killer Instinct,Crono Trigger and Mega Man X 3. All of these titles were graphically on top of their game,and the play was just as well. While I wont use these to compair graphics against the 32X and Jaguar,as thats unfair because of the years apart in hardware design, I will say this.
If you want a direct comparason of what each system can do on the same title then look at these games.
Mortal Kombat 2 for Snes versus 32X
NBA Jam TE for Snes/Jaguar/32X.
Raiden for Snes/Genesis/Jaguar.
Flashback for Genesis/Snes/Jaguar.
Doom for Jag/32X/Snes
Wolfenstien 3d for Snes/Jag.
Wrestlemania the Arcade Game for Snes/Genesis/32X.
There are others,but I mean if you really want to run head to head comparasons this is the way to do it,and you will see in doing so the Jag and 32X did it better.
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I didnt refer to Snes and Genesis graphics in general being ugly,thats your asumption of what I was thinking and is not the case. For THEIR time these systems produced some very excellent 2d titles. However what I did do was knock out the "shining examples" you gave as excellent titles to show why you think the Jag and 32X were 16-bitish. The games you gave as a example are infact poor examples of what either the Genesis or Snes could do or were games that shouldnt have been attempted because the results were poor. I also didnt expect the Genesis or Snes to do complexe flat or texture mapped polygon based games well.
For that matter its silly for you to have suggested that the Snes could compete hand in hand with the 32X or Jaguar graphically when both are at thier best and say both of them are 16-bittish,just as the titles you gave examples of are poor choices of compairing Snes and Genesis might with the Jaguar.
Great examples of Snes and Genesis 16-bit might visually and play wise would be Shinobi 3,Gunstar Heroes,Alien Soldier,Phantasy Star 4, Sonic 3,Streets of Rage 2-3 Castlevania Bloodlines,Splatterhouse 2-3,Contra 3,Super Castlevania 4,R-Type 3,Dracula X, Power Instinct, Fatal Fury Special,Killer Instinct,Crono Trigger and Mega Man X 3. All of these titles were graphically on top of their game,and the play was just as well. While I wont use these to compair graphics against the 32X and Jaguar,as thats unfair because of the years apart in hardware design, I will say this.
If you want a direct comparason of what each system can do on the same title then look at these games.
Mortal Kombat 2 for Snes versus 32X
NBA Jam TE for Snes/Jaguar/32X.
Raiden for Snes/Genesis/Jaguar.
Flashback for Genesis/Snes/Jaguar.
Doom for Jag/32X/Snes
Wolfenstien 3d for Snes/Jag.
Wrestlemania the Arcade Game for Snes/Genesis/32X.
There are others,but I mean if you really want to run head to head comparasons this is the way to do it,and you will see in doing so the Jag and 32X did it better.
I never said that you called SNES/Genesis graphics in general ugly, just the comparisons you made. But SF Alpha SNES looks great in general, let alone as a SNES game.
I know that those games weren't good examples of what the systems could do. The point was that just as you said, a lot of the Jag games were in the realm of 16-bit, but there were those exeptions where some primitive 3D was acheived.
Same with the SNES & Genesis, they managed some basic 3D. But when people generally talk about the 32-bit generation, they're refering to Saturn/PSX and the Jag and 32-X are closer to the Genesis/SNES.
I never suggested that the Snes could compete hand in hand with the 32X or Jaguar graphically, when both are at thier best or otherwise. Thats your asumption of what I was thinking and is not the case.
But its silly for anyone to think that the Jaguar & 32-X can compete hand in hand with the Saturn & PSX graphically.
Not only did the Jag & 32-X do games like Doom better, but 32-X is my favorite version of the game, followed by the Jag version. I played both to death back in the day.
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I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.
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This is why I'm glad we've finally escaped the bit generations.
Dude, the 256 bit generation is just getting started! :wink:
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From Black_Tiger
You even called the SNES/Genesis games ugly and other negative stuff, compared to the nice Jag & 32-X games. Does that mean that you think that the Saturn/PSX make the Jag/32-X games look ugly? Personally, I like them all and don't feel that the PS3 ruins them.
What I always wanted out of 32-bit consoles, besides ranging from flat shaded polys to textured, shaded, lighted 3D games, was more 'high-res' high color games like the later Guilty Gear's.
Well your either saying I did or I didnt,your pretty vague there. As for Guilty Gear,it didnt get high res good looking untill it was blessed with Naomi/Dreamcast,in other words, 128-bit Power VR2,not 32-bit graphics chips. Theres a big difference between Guilty Gear PS1 and Guilty Gear X on up.
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I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.
Agreed,32X Doom was good,but the Jaguar was alot better.
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I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.
It's the difference between playing games with a real controller or half a phone. I'll take the 32x version and a real controller please.
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I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.
It's the difference between playing games with a real controller or half a phone. I'll take the 32x version and a real controller please.
Thats why the 32X Doom is my favorite. It was my first Doom and I prefer playing on a pad with a single strafe button. I still didn't have any problem playing with the giant Jaguar pad, but the 32X version is my favorite because of nostalgia/personal bias.
On a technical level, the Jaguar is way better. Probably the most impressive version I've seen for a particular console other than maybe the GBA version. But the Jaguar version gets extra points for me for being so good so early on, where as I expected more from the PSX version.
I was actually glad that the Jaguar version had no music, because I played my own through my stereo with my TV cranked to hear the sfx. I played that version to death at a time when I was first discovering what would become some of my favorite bands and one album in particular is permanently etched in my mind and reminds me of Jag Doom everytime I listen to it.
Well your either saying I did or I didnt,your pretty vague there. As for Guilty Gear,it didnt get high res good looking untill it was blessed with Naomi/Dreamcast,in other words, 128-bit Power VR2,not 32-bit graphics chips. Theres a big difference between Guilty Gear PS1 and Guilty Gear X on up
Thats why I just said the "later" GG, because I don't remember how many versions/sequals there are. All I know is that the Dreamcast GG(X?) is one of the most visually impressive games I've ever seen. I almost bought the Xbox version tonight, but opted for a Wii points card instead.
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the 32/64 bit era was a great time, everything seemed possible and it was clear videogames were entering a new era. For me the likes of the cdi, jaguar, 32X, mega cd, 3DO, FX, amiga cd etc are better of forgotten. Too many tried to jump on the 3D bandwagon with their 32bit pretenders but fell right off, thank god consumers couldn't really give a damn about them otherwise the industry could have got its fingers burned. For me the era started with the ps1 and saturn, both are quality consoles, i can't really decide which is better. And the N64 when it first came out toally blew me away, although today i find its aged pretty badly. Anyways i loved that generation just for Nights, i love that game.
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the 32/64 bit era was a great time, everything seemed possible and it was clear videogames were entering a new era. For me the likes of the cdi, jaguar, 32X, mega cd, 3DO, FX, amiga cd etc are better of forgotten. Too many tried to jump on the 3D bandwagon with their 32bit pretenders but fell right off, thank god consumers couldn't really give a damn about them otherwise the industry could have got its fingers burned. For me the era started with the ps1 and saturn, both are quality consoles, i can't really decide which is better. And the N64 when it first came out toally blew me away, although today i find its aged pretty badly. Anyways i loved that generation just for Nights, i love that game.
If the N64 totally blew you away then you have problems.
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the 32/64 bit era was a great time, everything seemed possible and it was clear videogames were entering a new era. For me the likes of the cdi, jaguar, 32X, mega cd, 3DO, FX, amiga cd etc are better of forgotten. Too many tried to jump on the 3D bandwagon with their 32bit pretenders but fell right off, thank god consumers couldn't really give a damn about them otherwise the industry could have got its fingers burned. For me the era started with the ps1 and saturn, both are quality consoles, i can't really decide which is better. And the N64 when it first came out toally blew me away, although today i find its aged pretty badly. Anyways i loved that generation just for Nights, i love that game.
If the N64 totally blew you away then you have problems.
come on, i don't believe theres been a better videogame experience then playing mario 64 for the first time, the N64 was quality - goldeneye, smash bros, mario tennis, perfect dark, f zero x, zelda. Sure the console was horribly undersupported and most thrid party games were a bit p!ss, but both Nintendo and RARE were on top of their game during the N64 years and thats what made the console great for me.
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The only N64 game I ever really got into besides Shadowman(which I own on all platforms) is Mario 64. Doom 64 was fun enough once through and I should give it a try again, but I never found any other N64 games for me other than Mario.
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N64 is one of those consoles that's better than what I used to imagine. At one point I would think of it as a pretty crap console but when I look back at some of the games for it, there were a surprising amount of decent games, especially when it comes to 3D platformers and multiplayer. I wish the games were as cheap as Genesis or NES games.
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Nintendo 64 rules. One of the most important systems to ever grace the video game industry. So many groundbreaking titles. :)
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Ive never in my life,esp working at a game store come across soemone who was "blown away" by the N64.
Not saying it had all bad titles, I liked Mace Dark Ages,Bio Freaks, Top Gear Overdrive,KI2,SW Rouge Squadron,but honestly never found anything that blew me away,and all the FPS except Doom64 and Quake 2 had horrible framerates that overclocking barely even fixes. I have a N64 here in my room,but its never used. I look at it,then look at any number of other systems Id rather play like my NeoGeo or TG or Genesis that had better quality games,and I play those instead. Ill give the N64 this though,Sin and Punishment looks really nice. My friend has it and I watched him beat it. Its really well done.
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Ive never in my life,esp working at a game store come across soemone who was "blown away" by the N64.
Not saying it had all bad titles, I liked Mace Dark Ages,Bio Freaks, Top Gear Overdrive,KI2,SW Rouge Squadron,but honestly never found anything that blew me away,and all the FPS except Doom64 and Quake 2 had horrible framerates that overclocking barely even fixes. I have a N64 here in my room,but its never used. I look at it,then look at any number of other systems Id rather play like my NeoGeo or TG or Genesis that had better quality games,and I play those instead. Ill give the N64 this though,Sin and Punishment looks really nice. My friend has it and I watched him beat it. Its really well done.
I could see someone being blown away by the N64, especially seeing Mario 64 for the first time, if it was their first 32-bit experience and they'd only been playing SNES for the last 5 years.
Nintendo 64 rules. One of the most important systems to ever grace the video game industry. So many groundbreaking titles.
Again, I know how many people had a lot of fun with N64 and several of its games are considered classics, but other Mario 64, I can't think of any other games that were actually ground breaking.
The N64 Zelda's sent the series on it's interactive movie trajectory to where I'm currently a dozen hours into Twilight Princess when I've only spent maybe a single hour total on actual gameplay.
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Although I really liked Mario 64, Waverace 64, and Pilotwings 64 (was there ever a game on the system without "64" tacked on? How retarded), the N64 gave me diarrhea with it's awful foggy graphics of low color. The system still gives me diarrhea to this day, and I play it whenever I need to move my bowels. The system was designed as a natural laxative with those crappy graphics. Why does Nintendo hate gamers so much to release a system like that? The N64 made me stop believing in God as well.
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The N64 Zelda's sent the series on it's interactive movie trajectory to where I'm currently a dozen hours into Twilight Princess when I've only spent maybe a single hour total on actual gameplay.
There's something that I can definitely say for console RPGs - "They just don't make 'em like they used to."
Quite frankly, I'd much rather spend my time powering up my characters (as boring as they may sound to some) instead of watching an FMV movie for the umpteenth time.
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The N64 made me stop believing in God as well.
The Atari 800XL did it for me and the Atari ST confirmed it. God must not exist if products like these could be released on the market :P
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Ive never in my life,esp working at a game store come across soemone who was "blown away" by the N64.
Not saying it had all bad titles, I liked Mace Dark Ages,Bio Freaks, Top Gear Overdrive,KI2,SW Rouge Squadron,but honestly never found anything that blew me away,and all the FPS except Doom64 and Quake 2 had horrible framerates that overclocking barely even fixes. I have a N64 here in my room,but its never used. I look at it,then look at any number of other systems Id rather play like my NeoGeo or TG or Genesis that had better quality games,and I play those instead. Ill give the N64 this though,Sin and Punishment looks really nice. My friend has it and I watched him beat it. Its really well done.
I don't know, I can think of a kid or 2 that was blown away by the N64 :lol:
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That kid and his sister in the video dont count. I doubt he was excited or blown away after playing WCW this and that,Conkers Bad Frame Rate,Perfect Slow, Winback Copy That, and the countless other shit games for the system.
The majority of system trade ins towards Play Stations and Dreamcast were Nintendo 64 systems and games. Typically any N64s we sold found their way back to us for instore credit a couple of weeks to a month later.
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Mario 64 was the first proper 3D game, full 3D movement and environments (before anyone says so no tomb raider wasn't), it was the game that revolutionised videogames. You will have to have a cold cold heart not to feel anything once you saw mario pop up at the intro for the first time, or when you made mario jump around the castle for the first time.
Oh yes, Goldeneye is multiplayer perfection, never beaten, probably never will. I generally dislike first person shooters, Goldeneye though is the only one i ever liked.
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Mario 64 was the first proper 3D game, full 3D movement and environments (before anyone says so no tomb raider wasn't), it was the game that revolutionised videogames. You will have to have a cold cold heart not to feel anything once you saw mario pop up at the intro for the first time, or when you made mario jump around the castle for the first time.
Oh yes, Goldeneye is multiplayer perfection, never beaten, probably never will. I generally dislike first person shooters, Goldeneye though is the only one i ever liked.
I was more impressed with Nights and Crash Bandicoot then watching Mario jump around doing the same ole shit but in 3d.
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Actually, yeah, I was in love with Crash, the beautiful graphics, the ol' school gameplay. Nights, I never played until recently, so I can't really speak about that from the right perspective, because, I think it stinks. But maybe I wouldn't, if I'd played it back then, I just can't seem to get into it now. Mario 64 never did anything for me, neither does the DS version. It's just, boring IMHO. The N64 did have some good games. I like Paper Mario, Perfect Dark, Golden Eye, Mischief Makers, & a few others. Nothing ever blew me away though. But, Crash, that, believe it or not, blew me away!
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If the Amiga CD32 made the poll I don't see why the FM-Towns Marty shouldn't be there.
I mean the Marty was a 32bit system too; it had awesome arcade ports and the biggest library of hentai games for a console. =P~
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C'mon, I apologized for that already! gimme a break! :oops:
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C'mon, I apologized for that already! gimme a break! :oops:
Around here for such a horrible crime you can never apologize enough.
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Mario 64 was the first proper 3D game, full 3D movement and environments (before anyone says so no tomb raider wasn't), it was the game that revolutionised videogames. You will have to have a cold cold heart not to feel anything once you saw mario pop up at the intro for the first time, or when you made mario jump around the castle for the first time.
Oh yes, Goldeneye is multiplayer perfection, never beaten, probably never will. I generally dislike first person shooters, Goldeneye though is the only one i ever liked.
Analog control isn't full 3D movement. The only times in Mario 64 you have full 3D movement is when you're either swimming or flying. And games like Pilot Wings did that years ago.
Now that you mention Tomb Raider though, Mario 64 is basically just a Mario version of that game.
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Now that you mention Tomb Raider though, Mario 64 is basically just a Mario version of that game.
Except Mario doesn't have crusty mustard controls :mrgreen: .
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Now that you mention Tomb Raider though, Mario 64 is basically just a Mario version of that game.
Except Mario doesn't have crusty mustard controls :mrgreen: .
Exactly, Mario 64 gave us some decent control in a straightforward adventurous 3D platformer, with some terrible camera angles. I'll have to read through the Wii instructions again to see if I can fix the damn camera somehow, but right now, its the only thing keeping me from enjoying the VC Mario 64.
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Believe it or not, I'll take Tomb Raider(which is getting a complete overhaul for PS2 in a couple months 8-[) over Mario. I fell in love with that game & it's crusty controls 8)
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Saturn first, because it had Dark Savior. Playstation second, because it had Xenogears. I never owned a PC-FX so I can't vote for that one, and none of the others held any interest for me.
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Believe it or not, I'll take Tomb Raider(which is getting a complete overhaul for PS2 in a couple months 8-[) over Mario. I fell in love with that game & it's crusty controls 8)
Believe it or not, I prefer the Saturn version of Tomb Raider over the PSX version.
I really tried to get into some of the sequals, but I only really like the original.
I hope that the Anniversary edition includes a 60 fps port of the original PC version.
And although I've questioned Mario 64's status as a groundbreaking legend, I still really love it and it was the first VC game I bought, even over the TG-16 games.
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I'm actually playing a bit of Tomb Raider Legend, which I just picked up for 20 bucks, & I'm loving it! I thought the first 3 Tomb Raiders were great, though, the 3rd one is where it started going downhill. The 2nd one is my favorite, love the locales mainly! If you get a chance, I'd check out Legend which was done by Crystal Dynamics, as is also doing the remake. Core isn't doing them anymore, after the last game, which I heard was beyond terrible. Other then Legend though, I must mention that I'm playing mainly Ys Origin right now!!! I'm a happy camper, though I'll be happier when the english patch comes out!
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I'm actually playing a bit of Tomb Raider Legend, which I just picked up for 20 bucks, & I'm loving it! I thought the first 3 Tomb Raiders were great, though, the 3rd one is where it started going downhill. The 2nd one is my favorite, love the locales mainly! If you get a chance, I'd check out Legend which was done by Crystal Dynamics, as is also doing the remake. Core isn't doing them anymore, after the last game, which I heard was beyond terrible. Other then Legend though, I must mention that I'm playing mainly Ys Origin right now!!! I'm a happy camper, though I'll be happier when the english patch comes out!
The 360 demo seemed alright. Like most 360 games I'm interested, I'm waiting to get a cheap used copy.
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Believe it or not, I prefer the Saturn version of Tomb Raider over the PSX version.
Believe it or not I'd rather just not play video games than play Tomb Radier. When it came out Tomb Raider made an impression on me for two reasons: the control SUCKED, and the graphics SUCKED (technically, and from an art direction standpoint).
Now that its 10 years old I can only imagine how terrible it must look since almost anything 3D tends to look worse every minute after its release unless its something like Rez (non-representational), or Mario Sunshine (powerful hardware combined with simple design).
A lot of people say they liked only the first Tomb Radier. I think that's like saying your first cigarette tasted better than all others; no they are all like that you were just tricked.
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My first (and last) experience with Tomb Raider was a PC demo. I played it for less than 2 minutes before getting EXTREMELY bored with it. Never tried another one.
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Well, then you all suck,.............just kidding. We all have our own tastes, & I loved the first 3 TR's, & the new one is really sucking me in, I played it until 5 am this morning, I just couldn't put it down for some reason :-k
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A lot of people say they liked only the first Tomb Radier. I think that's like saying your first cigarette tasted better than all others; no they are all like that you were just tricked.
Depends on the brand you smoke. Id say if you started off with a nice Menthol like a Newport or a Kool and then lowered your standards to a Wal-Mart brand then there is a pretty big difference. :P
And yea,I hated Tomb Raider too,never liked any of them,even the new ones.
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Believe it or not, I prefer the Saturn version of Tomb Raider over the PSX version.
Believe it or not I'd rather just not play video games than play Tomb Radier. When it came out Tomb Raider made an impression on me for two reasons: the control SUCKED, and the graphics SUCKED (technically, and from an art direction standpoint).
Now that its 10 years old I can only imagine how terrible it must look since almost anything 3D tends to look worse every minute after its release unless its something like Rez (non-representational), or Mario Sunshine (powerful hardware combined with simple design).
A lot of people say they liked only the first Tomb Radier. I think that's like saying your first cigarette tasted better than all others; no they are all like that you were just tricked.
It's like games like Toshinden or many early 3D RPG's, the gimmick of that kind of a 3D game was the appeal at the time. But like many other games that haven't held up so well, it's tied to my early memories of the Saturn.
Although it's not a masterpiece, I do like pushing up to move forward in 3D games. I hate having to constantly change movement of an analog stick to match the direction of a wonking moving camera in some games.
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Tomb Raider had great graphics for when it was released, I don't know anyone who thought the game looked bad. It's funny how the original Tomb Raider ripped off Prince of Persia's control scheme, and now the new one ripped off the new Prince of Persia's control scheme. Totally sweet.
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Tomb Raider had great graphics for when it was released, I don't know anyone who thought the game looked bad. It's funny how the original Tomb Raider ripped off Prince of Persia's control scheme, and now the new one ripped off the new Prince of Persia's control scheme. Totally sweet.
Yeah, I think that happened with a couple other series', but can't remember which exactly at the moment. :)